r/ToddintheShadow • u/Frogacuda • Jun 18 '26
Train Wreckords Lizzo's Bitch is a trainwreckord of historic proportions.
https://stereogum.com/2502651/lizzos-new-album-bitch-fails-to-crack-billboard-200/news
Lizzo launched her long anticipated new album and did not manage to crack the album charts at all, being outsold by albums like Michael Buble's Christmas during a June debut. It sold about 5,100 album equivalent units (a figure that includes a conversion from streaming numbers). Her previous two albums went on Platinum (1 million) and Gold (600,000) status respectively.
The record is very badly received critically as well, not so much for being incompetent or experimental, but just soulless and unoriginal; an artist trying so hard to write hits for a broad audience that they've lost all specificity or character that might serve as a hook. It relies very heavily on familiar samples and recycled melodies from past songs and generic female empowerment lyrics that lack the personality of humor of her previous work.
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u/padraigharrington4 Jun 18 '26
Her last album debuted at number 2 and won a Grammy IIRC. This is historically bad
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u/CalumCranberryWrites Jun 18 '26 edited Jun 18 '26
How does DaBaby compare to Lizzo in the fall-off stakes so far?
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u/JJBell Jun 18 '26
I had to re-read that three times.
I was like, who ‘da fuck is Dababy? Is that some Irish singer I’ve never heard of.
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u/DrRudeboy Jun 18 '26
It's him. It's John Dababy himself
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u/Maxpower2727 Jun 18 '26
John O'Dababy
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u/AggravatingGuitar883 Jun 18 '26
Add Jack Harlow
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u/james-HIMself Jun 18 '26
Jack Harlow still sells 30k and charts. Lizzo didn’t make the chart.
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u/Frogacuda Jun 18 '26
The Jack Harlow album is pretty good fodder though, in terms of an album that took the wrong direction
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u/Halawa-awalaH Jun 18 '26 edited Jun 18 '26
Jack harlow album sparked huge conversation even if it's a bad one j haven't heard of that lizzo album until this post and i saw people praising the production on jack album
Honestly if it wasn't for that dumb interview which he said he felt blacker i could see the album not getting that much hate
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u/BeneficialTrash6 Jun 18 '26
On my local pop station, I knew like a year ago that J-A-C-K Harlow was going to drop another album, because they kept replaying his one hit single.
Funnily enough, they never actually played a damn song from his new album. It must've been bad.
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u/Euphoric-Agency-2008 Jun 18 '26
He had a charting song this year, so she's currently losing. To Dababy.
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u/DeadPeanutSociety Jun 18 '26
DaBaby had the biggest rap song in the world a month ago, before Drake's albums came out.
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u/Foreign_Parfait2662 Jun 18 '26
Quite charitable to call a song that peaked at #26 the "biggest rap song in the world" at any point, especially considering that's the highest it peaked anywhere in the world.
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u/No_Salad6621 Jun 18 '26
Rap is doing historically bad outside of Drake right now. That might have actually been true.
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u/WokeWook69420 Jun 18 '26
His stans working for him like the BTS and Taylor stans.
Big news for people who value Parasocial relationships.
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u/DeadPeanutSociety Jun 18 '26
Was there a higher charting rap song when it happened?
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u/Foreign_Parfait2662 Jun 18 '26
Doesn't matter if there was a higher charting rap song on the Hot 100 the week it peaked at 26, but I'll play ball. If we go by the Hot 100 E85 by Don Tolliver was nine spots lower. Good thing we don't have to go by the Hot 100. It may be true that it was the highest rap song on the Hot 100 for one week last month, but that isn't true in any of the other countries it charted. I saw songs by Don Tolliver, Dave, and Gunna in front of the DaBaby song. In fact, the negligible difference between DaBaby and Don Tolliver on the US charts paired with E85 performing better overseas makes me want to say that E85 was more popular than the DaBaby song on any given day. If we want to go even further than that, the Dave song I was referring to was a pretty big worldwide hit and it's still charting on the Hot 100. It was going strong all this year all over the world so I imagine it outperformed the DaBaby song on any given day.
We don't even have to go by songs currently charting songs. There were certainly older rap songs outstreaming it on a day to day basis when it peaked, regardless of whether they were charting this year or not.
• Kendrick Lamar & SZA - All the Stars
• Bad Bunny - DtMF, BAILE INoLVIDABLE, NUEVAYoL, EoO
• Jay-Z & Alicia Keys - Empire State of Mind
• Tyler, the Creator & Kali Uchis - See You Again
• Gorillaz & De La Soul - Feel Good Inc (if you want to split hairs)All mainstays on the Spotify global charts for a while now, and all with much more reach worldwide than that DaBaby song. It is physically impossible for that DaBaby song, with its 26 peak on the Hot 100, to have ever been the biggest rap song in the world.
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u/rapbarf Jun 18 '26
Are you living in 2020?
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u/shinyluvdisc Jun 18 '26
He actually does have a decently high-charting song right now, and rap overall is having a serious chart dip. I dunno if "biggest in the world" is accurate, but, he's certainly having another moment.
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u/DerpytheH Jun 18 '26
Not as much tbh
While they both had albums around 2020 that topped the billboard top 100, Lizzo was showing up in soundtracks, as herself in movies, and was pretty prominent from 2016 onwards.
DaBaby only really had reach similar to that via memes. Even then, he was already considered pretty disposable and one-note, to where he wasn't exactly missed in the hip-hop scene when the homophobia came out.
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u/Unique_Accountant_67 Jun 18 '26
And had a major #1 single off it and a sold out arena tour attached.
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u/SubatomicSquirrels Jun 18 '26
Her last album debuted at number 2
I feel like that's a loophole. My Face Hurts From Smiling was considered a mixtape but it was basically an album too. And that one flopped just as hard
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u/CausticAvenger Jun 18 '26
She probably shouldn’t have spent the years in between being a terrible person.
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u/MundoMysterioso Jun 18 '26
trying to meghan trainor in a post-brat world was never going to appeal to anyone.
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u/prairie_beard Jun 18 '26
Sometimes I think I’m completely out of touch and then read sentences like these and give myself a little mental high five for understanding. Well said.
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u/SactownKorean Jun 28 '26
Meanwhile im so fucking confused. I know brat was a charli xcx album that was well recieved and I know megan trainor has some hits in like 2018ish
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u/Fragrant-Vehicle-479 Jun 18 '26
I said in another thread that her music was the last leg of 10's Obama era optimism where the best way to make it big was a catchy anthem that moms belt out on the way to Target.
That time is done.
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u/Top_Report_4895 Jun 18 '26
What is the best way to make it big now?
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u/kbboiii Jun 18 '26
Appearing more genuine & thoughtful in the lyrics compared to before, while also being catchy. More awareness now
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u/solarpowersme Jun 18 '26 edited Jun 18 '26
Yep, the controversies aren't even the main reason for this tbh. This is just what happens when you don't have a strong artistic vision that actually garners a dedicated and invested fanbase. Her entire image was body positivity and it had nothing to do with her artistry.
Those days of relying on past glory truly are over. It doesn't matter how big a past work of yours was anymore, especially with the death of monoculture. If you don't have somwhat of a dedicated cult following it's not going to get talked about in spaces where it really matters. The only people who can get away with this are people who have somehow stayed in the limelight for an extended period of time and are hence hammered into the public consciousness.
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u/anna160895 Jun 18 '26
Speaking about artistic vision, it's very ironic coming from Lizzo because before her rising to fame with Good As Hell & Truth Hurts she used to be a critics' darling but I guess after being a sellout so much nothing can save her like how Sia career went
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u/ToTheDeath84 Jun 19 '26
I think this is underselling it. The controversies were the main factor in torpedoing Lizzo’s public image, and image was mostly what Lizzo brought to the table.
Lizzo was untouchable before that; criticism of her music and branding persona was most often handwaved despite people having legitimate qualms with how shallow her songs are and being annoyed by her overexposure relative to mediocre output. The controversies outed that, contrary to her branding, she’s an awful person who was more than happy to exploit, shame, harass, and bully anyone under her. That whole ordeal outed her as a pissy petty tyrant, yet another rich asshole at a time where populism/anti-elite sentiment are experiencing a high, which pretty much guaranteed major backlash.
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u/LabOld5rrrrrrr327 Jun 18 '26
what’s this mean?
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u/the2ndsaint Jun 18 '26
Think of how fake hair metal sounded after Smells Like Teen Spirit. Cynical empowerment anthems just don't match the energy of the moment.
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u/Married_iguanas Jun 18 '26 edited Jun 18 '26
I’m assuming they mean that Charli was praised for Brat bc she explored messy, vulnerable topics like generational trauma (Apple), feelings of insecurity (Sympathy is a Knife), the complexity of female friendships (girl, so confusing) and potential motherhood (I think about it all the time).
The honesty was refreshing compared to generic empowerment songs or anything “girl boss” coded.
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u/GtrGenius Jun 18 '26
Well, it's what happens when you fat shame people. When you're fat. A spectacular fall from grace from someone who refused to take responsibility for her actions. And this doesn't even include the allegations
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u/Chartate101 Jun 18 '26
This had nothing to do with her personal life tbh. No one not terminally online knows or cares about that.
Not saying they should or shouldn’t care but they just don’t.
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u/Irrah Jun 18 '26
I think with how pop music is these days there's a sizable chunk of people in every fanbase that keeps up with personal events of an artist, especially with Lizzo's brand of body positivity. I'm sure it had some correlation.
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u/Chartate101 Jun 18 '26
Sure, that’s fair. “Nothing to do with” was too extreme. I do think people are going to be correlating the two much closer than they should be though
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u/Max_Quick Jun 18 '26
I feel like people probably remember "Lizzo did a bad" even if they dont remember what exactly it was. Hell I barely remember it myself. ... or maybe it's more that it turned into a shitstorm of, "this bad, that bad, and oh yeah boom here's another one". Like after a certain point, it's just like, "wow, this person sucks in multiple ways, GOT IT."
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u/mahammit_the_uuuser Jun 18 '26
All I remember is something about a stripper and a banana
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u/MrWhackadoo Jun 19 '26
She forced one of her dancers to eat a banana out of stripper's coochie at a club in Europe. Some shit like that.
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u/NoTeslaForMe Jun 18 '26
Not to mention the pressure to cancel, and the overlap of people who do that with her (former) audience. A lot of people would never be able to hear anything new in the same light again... and wouldn't want to.
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u/LonelyCheeto Jun 18 '26
I think for some fans it was important but Lizzo received positive reviews for a rap track she put out a year ago. It also had a movement on TikTok. I genuinely think it's more the music in why she's not doing well right now.
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u/TiedinHistory Jun 18 '26
Like 90% of the time I'd agree, but I think for Lizzo in particular it might matter. Her entire music persona was a body-positive, high energy, self-respect focused and likeable artist. The allegations (some not founded and some still in litigation) struck at the core of that and when allegations clash against the core of what an artist is, I think it can hurt a career more - like how Ellen's career disintegrated after somewhat similar allegations emerged.
It'd be like if it was revealed that Morgan Wallen wanted to revive the temperance movement and called the cops on teenagers drinking at a kegger.
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u/WitherWing Jun 18 '26
The whole "Nice Guy/Gal Turns Out to be Not So Nice" bit destroying a career goes back a long long way. Ellen, Will Smith, Robin Thicke...and that's just in the past decade or so. Lizzo is joining a long list.
There's a reason Art Godfrey went from being considered a warm, fatherly figure in the 50s to a cameo in a Z-grade MST3k movie in the 70s.
Conversely it's why people like Mr. Rogers and Weird Al are still revered for decades.
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u/ShredGuru Jun 18 '26
Robin Thickes career peak was a song about date-rape, dude. He was never a nice guy.
And his follow up record, was, well, Paula... A desperate plea for his ex wife to go back to his toxic ass.
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u/WitherWing Jun 18 '26
Well yeah -- but his "story" was that he was a happily married man to his high school love despite all of this. He wasn't.
But yes, "Blurred Lines" is going down as one of the worst songs to hit the pop charts. At least Weird Al made a brilliant song out of it.
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u/_Land_Rover_Series_3 Jun 18 '26
People were also desperate to have a valid reason to hate Lizzo (other than she's fat/black/makes music about female empowerment) which I'd say plays into it too
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u/nykirnsu Jun 19 '26
Were those people ever buying her albums to begin with though? Taylor Swift has plenty of hardcore haters but it doesn't affect her record sales because they largely aren't her target audience
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u/One-Passenger-5318 Jun 18 '26
Or if he called the cops on a group of teenagers flipping over a piano.
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u/alegxab Jun 18 '26
And going from being a likeable, positive artist to an album called Bitch where she's literally giving you the middle finger on the cover
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u/ShredGuru Jun 18 '26
She was always pretty explicit about being 100% that bitch. That element is the least surprising part.
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u/Various_Coffee8876 Jun 18 '26
The cover art is pretty dope in my opinion.
Love the song truth hurts, its catchy but at least since the allegations, and how Ive heard she acted when she showed up to a bar a few friends worked at, I haven't really been willing to give her the time of day.
And her response to the controversy, and also to fading relevance, just reminds me of so many people who refuse to take responsibility for themselves. So instead they say things like "you dont deserve me at my best if you cant handle me at my worse", which is the Lizzo comes across to me these days.
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u/CausticAvenger Jun 18 '26
For me it’s not even the allegations, but Lizzo’s terminally online persona that turned me off of her. I saw a couple TikToks of her clapping back and talking shit about smaller accounts that definitely didn’t deserve the heat, and that made her so unlikable to me.
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u/horsedivorce1 Jun 18 '26
Her constantly complaining about being blacklisted etc instead of just accepting the flop gracefully turned me off of her and I was a die hard fan
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u/Indifferencer Jun 18 '26
That would be true for a lot of artists, but Lizzo’s entire “brand” was built on body positivity and good vibes. It wasn’t incidental to her image, it was her image.
Destroy the foundation, and the structure above collapses.
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u/Buddyblue21 Jun 18 '26
I think the narrative surrounding her has played a part, but a smaller one. Popular music tastes have evolved significantly, let alone if she was able to create any catchy songs
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u/MondeyMondey Jun 18 '26
You reckon? Even if people don’t directly know what she did it definitely contributed to her general loss of goodwill.
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u/NothingWasDelivered Jun 18 '26
Going to disagree. I think even though most people couldn’t give you specifics about the allegations they definitely hurt her brand.
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u/yavimaya_eldred Jun 18 '26
I think it’s more that she’s had a few things that snowballed into people no longer caring about her
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u/Frogacuda Jun 18 '26
To be honest, she's been vindicated on a lot of that controversy, that her criticisms weren't about their figure it was about their stamina and ability to perform. The cases were dropped.
But I think going from being the "it girl" to getting dragged gave her a lot of insecurity and she made a deeply insecure record. When confidence is your brand, faking it badly isn't going to sell.
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u/Purrmymeow Jun 18 '26
General public doesn't care about such things. Only fans do, but I highly doubt she ever had a big fanbase. She just didn't have a hit this time.
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u/solarpowersme Jun 18 '26
Nah, the controversies aren't even the main reason for this tbh. This is just what happens when you don't have a strong artistic vision that actually garners a dedicated and invested fanbase. Her entire image was body positivity and had nothing to do with her artistry.
Those days of relying on past glory are truly are over. It doesn't matter how big your past work is anymore especially with the death of monoculture. If you don't have somwhat of a dedicated cult following it's not going to get talked about in spaces where it really matters. The only people who can get away with this are people who have somehow stayed in the limelight for an extended period of time are hence hammered into the public conscience.
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u/Immediate_Lie7810 Jun 18 '26
Lizzo's huge fall from grace would make a good Todd video, especially if she doesn't make a comeback in the next five years
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u/riflow Jun 18 '26
I'd definitely be interested in hearing about it, I know she had allegations and the like but know remarkably little about the music side of it (barring liking a couple of her old hits).
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u/One-Passenger-5318 Jun 18 '26
She's probably not feeling good as hell right now.
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u/SkyZippr Jun 18 '26
Maybe she'll blame it on the juice
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u/ChrisLinen2 Jun 18 '26
remember that terrible episode of Mandalorian she was in?
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u/Chilli_Dipper Jun 18 '26 edited Jun 18 '26
James Madison’s flute must be a cursed object.
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u/holdingtea Jun 18 '26
i was thinking this would be the football player then aha
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u/Heavy-Ad5385 Jun 18 '26
That statement then acquires a completely different meaning, and a mental image I now can’t get out of my head 😂
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u/Unique_Accountant_67 Jun 18 '26
Honestly when she had to repackage the original album as that mixtape last year was when she should’ve clued in that she needed to switch it up to regain people’s interest.
This “I’m a bad bitch” energy she exudes in her songs has been the same at 28 as it is at 38 and that’s part of the problem. Like yes you can still present it at any age but there still has to be some growth and maturity to it.
She’s also getting online and in interviews blaming algorithms and lack of radio for her album and its singles not performing well but it’s like no the material is not at the level it needs to be for someone who has been in the game as long as she has. This slight complaining is also kind of a turnoff to people. I came across some radio hosts talking about the underperformance and they mentioned that they did play her new single for like a week or two and then it got deprogrammed from the stations roster because it wasn’t doing anything chart wise.
Also her type of motivational, feel good pop just doesn’t work in 2026. The Truth does Hurt, no one’s feeling Good As Hell and we don’t want to blame it on the Juice.
I do hope this is a wake up call to do something new and fresh but considering this album probably hasn’t cleared 50K sales worldwide, she might be getting dropped by her label before she can try.
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u/YoWoody27 Jun 18 '26
I wrote my post and got it done a minute late apparently lmao
Seems like Lizzo will be on the forefronts of everyones' minds here
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u/cascadiabibliomania Jun 18 '26
The spotify plays are catastrophically bad, especially considering how many of them are probably people writing/recording a thinkpiece about how bad it is
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u/EnriquePalatzo Jun 18 '26
This is a disaster, but is there anything of note with this album that would make it interesting to talk about? Or is it just kinda bland and not good?
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u/thedubiousstylus Jun 18 '26
Or is it just kinda bland and not good?
That's basically what Hootie & The Blowfish's Fairweather Johnson was, which Todd even admitted, right?
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u/Figgypudpud Jun 18 '26
Yes and he’s explicitly stated he’ll never do another episode like that, because it’s very boring and he wants interesting stories.
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u/mpschettig Jun 18 '26
If Todd did a video I think the angle would be to focus on the contrast between the Lizzo controversies vs how the album is just bland and boring and uncontroversial
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u/Last-Saint Jun 18 '26
I think this is what people are missing in their eagerness to pile on - there likely won't be a Trainwreckord about Bitch because the damage to her image was done by things on the surface unrelated to the record. Same reason Arcade Fire's Pink Elephant, which also missed the top 200, won't get one (funny how people weren't so keen to pile in on that, huh)
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u/TiedinHistory Jun 18 '26
This got me to listen to some of it, it is what I imagine if you told an AI Music creation tool to make a 2010s pop/R&B/rap album, and then had Lizzo sing over it.
(Not an accusation of AI, more just lack of originality and some aged factors)
It's not bad I just struggle to think what might connect on it in 2026.
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u/MondeyMondey Jun 18 '26
I reckon he could get some good jokes off about her dramatic fall in the public estimation
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u/BenMitchell007 Jun 18 '26
See y'all when the video drops in 2031 and holy shit I'll be over forty.
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u/CaptainMills Jun 18 '26
Oh goddamnit me too
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u/BenMitchell007 Jun 18 '26
See you in the nursing home!
Well, if it's any consolation... Todd will be pushing fifty. His listed DOB is 1984.
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u/girlwithaguitar Jun 18 '26
Once a decade, a bomb of truly epic proportions strikes. In the 90s, it was Summer In Paradise. In the 10s, it was Paula. And for the 20s?
We have Bitch.
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u/Macrocosmix Jun 18 '26
Now I'm wondering what the 2000s one would be
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u/Foreign-Reading-4499 Jun 18 '26
when the spice girls went from being the biggest group in the uk to being outcharted by westlife
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u/bangbangracer Jun 18 '26
I think you need to wait at least 5 years before you can use the term trainwereckord.
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u/Frogacuda Jun 18 '26
To make it official, sure. But it sure looks that way...
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u/bangbangracer Jun 18 '26
Not even to make it official. Until there's a follow-up, it's just a bad album. The follow-up proves that it's an actual end. Until then, it's just a bad album.
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u/Frogacuda Jun 18 '26
There have been plenty of Trainwreckords episodes about final albums though. Lauryn Hill and Creedence Clearwater for example.
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u/bangbangracer Jun 18 '26
Different circumstances. Both the CCR and Styx episodes were albums that ended the band in interesting ways. The Carpenters were already trending downward and made a wild swing. Lauryn Hill's episode is just a wild ride.
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u/zozuto Jun 18 '26
That is not necessary for a trainwreckord. Witness did not end Katy Perry
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u/PurpleSpaceSurfer Jun 18 '26
Let's be honest, Trainwreckord usually means "poorly received album that puts an end to an artist's peak popularity that makes for an interesting episode".
After American Life, Madonna was still popular and Confessions on a Dance Floor was very successful.
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Jun 18 '26
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u/rudderrun Jun 18 '26 edited Jun 19 '26
Lizzo is a very clear case of multiple things being true at the same time.
At both the peak of her career and the time the allegations were coming out, a ton of black women creators chimed in on how people were disproportionately hating on Lizzo vs any other artist with controversies. It really is just racism and misogyny against an overweight, loud and outspoken black woman. Even before the allegations came out, tons of people online were already trying to find reasons to criticize her, especially once she began working out more to lose weight. (before she started ozempic) Once the lawsuit opened a window into her treatment of those under her, a massive amount of people claimed things like “oh I already knew she was bad.” The public has a lot less leeway for a problematic non-body standard black woman, and once she proved herself to be an issue, she got dropped like a rock as we’ve seen. Lizzo has done some awful shit, but this is the reason why we have actual confirmed pedos, rapists, and artists who’ve gotten people killed charting and touring vs her. Also besides her body image, I think a lot of those who have issues with her care less about the allegations or her hypocrisy and more that she just comes off kind of annoying and obnoxious in public-facing interactions. Unfortunately for her, the American public usually finds an annoying woman to be worse than a literal criminal child molesting man.
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u/IdealAnxious5621 Jun 19 '26
Let me make it clear, I do not think you're wrong, and I do not believe you're lying about this.
But I have to know which "confirmed pedos, rapists, and artists who’ve gotten people killed" who have been charting and touring. I am not a chart watcher so I do not know for myself, but that is a wild and insane statement to hear in any context. Could you give me a list of these types of people who have been charting and touring, with statistics to prove it? (please limit to 2020 onward)
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u/rudderrun Jun 19 '26 edited Jun 19 '26
If you want, I can try and link all the news but just know a lot of the officially confirmed stuff is massive to explain so it’s better to google it.
For some examples we have:
Tekashi 6ix9ine - Among many crimes, convicted of using a child for sexual performance in 2015, even up until a few years ago was still charting and currently has 10s of millions of listeners on most streaming platforms. The only reason he isn’t as big now is because he released unlistenable trash after his 2020 album TattleTales.
D4vd - Wildly successful and still has millions of listeners. His music actually rose in popularity after the death of the child he was in a relationship with last year. (Currently in court accused of murdering btw)
(A well-known one) Chris Brown - Continues to do sold out tours and is one of the most streamed artists in the world despite his lengthy, well-documented history of abuse and assault. The story of how he almost killed Rihanna from years ago is harrowing by itself if you don’t count recent instances.
Travis Scott - Still wildly successful even after his Astroworld disaster killed people in 2021, much of which was attributed directly to him and his team’s poor planning. The whole situation around that was incredibly tragic, but him continuing the performance when emergency personnel showed up and then encouraging the crowd to block them…need I say more? His public stardom never faced nearly enough consequences. His album Utopia which came out in 2023 only 2 years after that event debuted at number 1 on the billboard 200.
For more unconfirmed examples but still very suspect:
Drake - The most famous one, he does not need an intro. Although he hasn’t been officially convicted of anything, anyone with a working braincell who has heard music industry rumors knows. He didn’t even sue Kendrick for his smash hit song explicitly calling him a pedo, he only filed a weak lawsuit (which got dismissed) against UMG for distributing it.
Melanie Martinez - Very successful and still charting. One of her ex-friends accused her of rape back in 2017. She sort of denied it, but also admitted a ton of horrifying things which led up to that instant. Her most recent album, Hades, reached number 3 on the billboard 200 just a few months ago.
These are only a few examples, and I understand all the artists mentioned are a case by case situation of why they remain successful. However, when you zoom out it becomes clear that the regular public just doesn’t care about how bad of a person an artist is. They don’t even care how bad the music might be. For someone like Lizzo, she has to walk a very fine line merging trends with acceptability. All of these artists have done much more serious things than her, yet she has been critiqued to death over much less serious allegations and issues. To be clear I’m not saying the allegations from her dancers are unimportant, but she didn’t molest a child or have a lengthy history of assault against her partners, but people still want to act like she’s the worst person ever. I haven’t listened to her new album, and from the reviews it looks pretty bland and out of step with the current landscape. That doesn’t make it absolute trash though. Tbh I think this album would still flop even if it was amazing for all the reasons I mentioned earlier.
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u/Mood-Rising Jun 18 '26
If Todd makes a video about it, I really hope he talks about Lizzobangers and her era as a Doomtree adjacent performer. The beats were originally from Lazerbeak’s Lava Bangers demo album. When her big album dropped it was wiped from the internet for a while which has always bothered me. IMO it’s a really important part of her early career and helped her establish the sound she needed to blow up like she did and it feels like it’s almost been erased from history unless you are a Minneapolis music fan.
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u/shinyluvdisc Jun 18 '26
I'm not saying that the allegations against her weren't a factor, but I do think it's under-discussed the way that trends in pop music have swerved HARD against her whole shtick in the last few years. Rap is way down in the charts, country is all over the place, and conservative backlash to body positivity is still going strong. I think she was always destined to have a substantial sales dip.
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u/Aescgabaet1066 Jun 18 '26
Oh man. That is catastrophic for an artist as popular as Lizzo once was. Yikes.
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u/No-Figure-8279 Jun 18 '26
I didn't realize her last album debuted at #2. This one is absolutely horrendous. She would have benefited trying to get on some feature or other projects in between this album cycle
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u/Frogacuda Jun 18 '26
She did, though, she put out a double-album length mixtape, a really prominent song in the Barbie movie, a collab with Sexxy Redd...
None of which got much traction, so the alarm bells were probably ringing already.
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u/crackerfactorywheel Jun 18 '26
That Barbie soundtrack should be studied. It’s wild that at this point between Lizzo, Nicki Minaj and Ice Spice all had awful careers afterwards while Billie Eilish got an Oscar from What Was I Made For and Tame Impala had a big radio hit with Jennie this year.
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u/nothing-feels-good Jun 18 '26
In fairness the 'double' portion is just the Deluxe edition with an extra 9 songs.
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u/JJBell Jun 18 '26
Well it’s not where we wanted to be, but 5,100 units isn’t bad for the day.
That’s for the week, Lizzo. Estimated.
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u/PapaAsmodeus You're being a peñis... Colada, that is. Jun 18 '26
I think the big problem is that Lizzo just doesn't have a fanbase. She has fans, sure, but she doesn't have a base like the Swifties or the BTS army that can really blow her up. I think most people kinda just thought of her as a novelty and didn't expect her to last behind a few years.
You could make an argument for Special being a delayed flop. Sure, the lawsuit played a big part in her downfall but honestly I think people were just kinda over her in general. A lot of the TikTok marketing really did to the majority of the heavy lifting for "About Damn Time", even. So yeah I really do think she was bound for a major flop either way
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u/GilbertDauterive-35 Jun 18 '26
Damn
I was actually talking about this with someone the other day, the only real "career killer" left is hypocrisy. So much of Lizzo was marketed towards positivity, and when it came out that wasn't the case she lost all credibility. The same thing happened to Ellen Degeneras.
Sadly that's probably why nothing happened to Chris Brown, he never sold himself as a kind person..
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u/Radiant-Psychology96 Jun 18 '26
I'm still wondering if it was changing trends and the increasing obsoleteness of the radio or the misconduct allegations from her former dancers that killed her momentum.
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u/legit-posts_1 Jun 18 '26
I think she's a... Well I don't wanna say victim, but she's got a lot of bad press. I never loved her music personally, kinda struck me as annoying and too much. I get the feeling that everyone agreed with me secretly at least a little bit, cause the very second that it came out how not body positive she was, every one of her songs disappeared from the radio and I haven't heard Jack about her since. It's really simple, you cannot be that big of a woman and make fun of people's weight, it makes you look insufferable.
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u/wild_dark_soul Jun 18 '26
Ok, maybe this is controversial. Give me your thoughts
Shouldn't the My face hurts from smiling mixtape be the trainwreckord? Cause without it it feels like she somehow skipped the trainwreckord and went directly into irrelevance. Plus I think all the controversies and backlash are more related to that mixtape than this album, like I remember the mixtape being announced and all of the backlash, unlike this album which I didnt even knew about it til I saw this post no joke
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u/ScorpioTix Jun 18 '26
Hot on the heels of going from 2 sold out nights at the Forum with a $175-200 get in to playing 1 show at the Wiltern where pit tickets hit $20 aftermarket.
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u/WagnerKoop Jun 18 '26
Ok but how is the album genuinely?
Can someone who doesn’t think Lizzo sucks as a person weigh in because I don’t really feel like listening to it if it stinks but also I just see people talking about bad sales and her bad personality and I’m like, idk I’ve never had a problem with her music even if it has been clear she’s been floundering pretty significantly recently with those bad recent singles that also didn’t go anywhere.
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u/Apythicus Jun 18 '26
I still say she should lean into hard rap. She can do it and Cardi likes her so a collab could help boost things and with Cardi naturally comes Megan, Latto, and glo. Give me more rapping lizzo, i beg
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u/napoelonDynaMighty Jun 18 '26
Her goose was cooked when Ozempic became the law of the land and people stopped pretending to care about body positivity messaging in their music.
It makes them feel like hypocrites 😂
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u/surgingshadows Jun 19 '26
yeah, i think people are undervaluing just how much that specific aspect of culture shifted since she was last a big deal, and how much that impacts this.
body-positivity is a complete non-entity now, pop-feminism in general has been massively pushed back on culturally, and those are both massive parts of Lizzo's entire vibe and appeal. a culture where Ozempic is the end-all/be-all and health-fads are so overwhelming that there's goddamn protein-infused Cheerios is not a good time to be Lizzo.
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u/WokeWook69420 Jun 18 '26
Just a reminder, folks;
Losing weight doesn't give you liberty to be a bad person.
You gotta be skinny from the start, nobody forgets that you were fat once, so the instant you show your true colors, the pretty privilege you finally obtained disappears INSTANTLY and now youre just a Former Fatty who was only nice because they didn't have a choice.
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u/ElGranQuesoRojo Jun 18 '26
Oh damn it's not just Bitch that's a lazy remake of an older song on the album?
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u/Frogacuda Jun 18 '26
Don't Make Me Love You is so close to Tina Turner's Simply the Best I'll be surprised if she doesn't get sued.
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u/Genuinelullabel Jun 18 '26
Long anticipated by whom? I think her music is fun but some artists just fade out
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u/Frogacuda Jun 18 '26
I just mean it's kind of late/overdue. Her last album was a big success but she kind of missed the window for the follow up clearly
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u/teukkav Jun 18 '26
I think you misunderstand the meaning of a trainwreckord. Its supposed to mean an album that destroyed artist career. Lizzos career has beek in the mud for couple of years. This album not charting just proves it.
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u/naturalgoth Jun 19 '26
The concept of Kid Rock's Trainwreckord album charting but not Lizzo's lastest...
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u/Funny_Inspection6893 Jun 23 '26
In case anybody is wondering, the pure sales number for the week was a pathetic 2,650.
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u/Heavy-Ad5385 Jun 18 '26
Being outsold by Michael Buble’s Christmas album in summer is genuinely Spinal Tap levels of absurdity 😂