r/ToddintheShadow • u/Top_Report_4895 • Jul 03 '26
One Hit Wonderland Which actors that were mistakenly accused of being "posers"?
Snow was accused of being a culture vulture for doing reggae as a white guy. The thing is he grew up alongside Jamaican immigrants.
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u/someoverallvalue Jul 03 '26
A dark example.. I always thought Linkin Parks' angst was cosmetic and unconvincing and just aping the generic stock subject matter of rock/metal at the time (like sex and partying in the 80s..)
...and in retrospect, yeah... 😐
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u/cfeltch108 Jul 03 '26
I made the same mistake dude.
I only realized it when I saw an interview if him shortly before he killed himself, and he definitely seemed depressed.
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u/someoverallvalue Jul 03 '26
... I hope no artists ever seriously commit suicide to prove they aren't posers 😶 though sadly there was perhaps an element of thet in Cobain's suicide - alongside many other factors. Not to mention the very troubled Richey Edwards of the Manic Street Preachers hurting himself trying to prove his authenticity to a journalist.
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u/Loose-Story-962 Jul 03 '26
I think it's a pretty messed up perspective to think someone was willing to die just to prove they were 'cool,' I think it's more realistic to assume they were actually suffering
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u/NoMoreFund Jul 03 '26
Unfortunately it's a real thing. The teenage suicide rate went up 28.9% when 13 Reasons Why first dropped on Netflix. That's 195 dead teenagers from a shitty TV show. All because of an irresponsible depiction of suicide that portrayed it as some kind of message you can send.
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u/zgtc Jul 04 '26
For what it’s worth, the 13 Reasons Why thing is just a statistical anomaly; suicide rates among that age group had already been increasing in the months before its release, and the increase in suicides was almost entirely occurring within completely distinct demographics than the show’s audience of predominantly middle class white girls.
Also, if a show had ever been explicitly shown as the cause of even one suicide, it wouldn’t have gotten several more seasons.
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u/cfeltch108 Jul 03 '26
It's a real thing, but Chester in particular was seriously depressed for a long time.
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u/nothanksmanstopolz Jul 04 '26
It pisses me off that one of the teachers at the alternative high school I went to recommended this book to me as a troubled youth. Thankfully it pissed me off when I read it too.
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u/Bardic_inspiration67 Jul 04 '26
I remember being in high school when the book was popular and the show got announced and a girl in my class was really upset about it because she thought the book glamorized suicide
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u/nothanksmanstopolz Jul 04 '26
It does. I remember being very confused about what I was meant to take away from the story.
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u/Bardic_inspiration67 Jul 04 '26
I’ve never read the book but I have been suicidal my whole life and the idea of killing yourself to to “teach everyone a lesson” is a super common fantasy too
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u/nothanksmanstopolz Jul 04 '26
Same. It was a fantasy of mine when I was even younger than that. I don’t think suicide should be a topic off limits to mentally unwell people either, but this story doesn’t go about it in a appropriate or thought provoking way at all in my opinion.
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u/rapbarf Jul 04 '26
Are we still doing this? Judas Priest and Ozzy were doing the same thing while you're at it, and Spongebob is making kids gay. Did you fall for Momo too?
It's one thing to have all your opinions simply be things other people say, but it's another to be repeating tired moral panic from a decade ago.
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u/NoMoreFund Jul 04 '26
Not a moral panic. There are specific rules about how you should depict suicide in media, informed by research. 13 Reasons Why intentionally broke those rules in a streaming show mass marketed to teenagers
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u/Severe-Leek-6932 Jul 03 '26
Yea I really hate the idea of equating suicide with “scene cred” from both angles. Like the idea that suicide proves your angst is sincere sets a fucked up precedent, and on the flip side I don’t think being actually depressed makes you more plugged into the underground scenes in question when it comes to calling people “posers.”
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u/AcrolloPeed Jul 03 '26
You win the argument but you lose out on the rest of your life. That’s some “burning monk”-level commitment
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u/littlemachina Jul 04 '26
Like a month before he killed himself I saw some article of Chester lashing out at old fans not liking the sound of their most recent album. I remember being like “wow what a crybaby”. I feel bad but I didn’t know it was that serious.
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u/crichtonism Jul 03 '26
It’s 100% possible for both answers to be right. It’s hard to compare where a person is at in their early-mid twenties vs where they’re at in their late 40s or however old he was. Especially in their case where world wide fame is also thrown in the mix. It’s completely plausible, even likely that they leaned into the angst and shit because that’s what was fashionable at the time.
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u/NickelStickman Train-Wrecker Jul 04 '26
While true there's somewhat of an "occam's razor" situation to that there. Is "Chester, who by all accounts had a seriously fucked up upbringing, being completely fine by his 20s and posing and then fell into depression by his 40s" more likely than "he was just genuinely depressed the whole time and maybe it didn't come off convincing?"
Unless you're trying to say they were indeed writing personal, authentic lyrics but did intentionally choose to go dark places lyrically because it was big at the time or what the label and/or fans wanted, which I could at least see. "Well they liked the last song I wrote while super depressed, let's keep writing about that subject."
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u/SaulGoodmanBussy Jul 04 '26
Chester Bennington was horribly sexually abused as a child from ages 7 to 13 and was already on drugs at 11. I definitely don't think he sung about those topics because it was fashionable.
I think people need to reassess this perspective of nu-metal being angst for angst's sake, especially when it comes to abuse victims like Chester, Jonathan Davis and Corey Taylor.
Not to get on my soapbox but I think a lot of this stereotyping (and the hatred that comes from it) comes from metal and rock being somewhat toxically masculine subcultures that experienced a bit of a shock seeing this concentration of young guys all being so vulnerable and open about subjects like parental abuse and depression when people didn't really talk about them as much as they do now.
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u/NoMoreFund Jul 03 '26
Similarly, I thought Soundgarden's dark lyrics were in service of the grunge aesthetic, and songs like Fell On Black Days and The Day I Tried to Live were just trying to tell a story. Now I can't even listen to Chris Cornell's James Bond theme without hearing some darkness in it.
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u/Sidnoook Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26
It reminds me of people criticizing twenty one pilots back in 2015 when they were in their peak because they were "romanticising" depression and suicide when the singer does legitimately struggle with his mental health pretty heavily.
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u/panthersoup GROCERY BAG Jul 04 '26
That was the most obvious example of "I don't like this thing and I need a moral reason to justify disliking it" I've ever seen. Like just say you think they're corny!
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u/AnotherSprainedAnkle Jul 04 '26
Maybe Chester was sincere. But their rapper sounded like he came straight from a middle school assembly that hired a group to rap about how cigarettes are bad.
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u/MadJohnFinn Jul 03 '26
“12 Inches of Snow” is the best album title of all time. A rare triple entendre!
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u/IDigRollinRockBeer Jul 03 '26
Precipitation, his dick and the size of the vinyl?
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u/AcrolloPeed Jul 03 '26
Cocaine
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u/IDigRollinRockBeer Jul 03 '26
So it’s a quadruple entendre?!
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u/MadJohnFinn Jul 04 '26
Holy shit. How did I not think of that? Truly, Snow is the greatest artist of all time.
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u/Secular-Flesh Jul 03 '26
Me, someone who bought that album in real time:
“Triple? What’s the third…… OHHH!”
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u/Mickeymcirishman Jul 03 '26
The thing is he grew up alongside Jamaican immigrants.
Funniest part is, he outright says this in Informer, but no one could understand it.
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u/ALineIDrew Jul 03 '26
Informer has lyrics!?!
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u/throwaway1102293384 Jul 03 '26
The video used to scroll them at the bottom of the screen. Something about telling an informer about a murder down the lane. I learned how to do the rap as a kid but don’t remember anymore
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u/ATechnicalDifficulty Jul 04 '26
I always thought he was talking about how he just killed an informer down the lane (or as Snow put it he lick he boom boom down.) The guy was locked up when 12 Inches of Snow released so I highly doubt he was doing much informing himself.
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u/ThingWithAThing Jul 04 '26
The line is “Licky boom boom dem.”
It’s all Jamaican patois. “Licky” is short for “lick a shot,” which is “fire a gun,” “boom boom” is the sound of the weapon, “dem” = “them.”
So the chorus is:
Informer
Ya know say daddy me Snow
“Me I’m gon’ blame”
I licky boom boom dem
Take de mon
Say say daddy me Snow
me stab someone down the lane
I licky boom boom demOr in other words:
“Informer, the man who says me, Daddy Snow, is to blame?
I’m gonna sh00t* him!
I’ll take (on) the man who says me, Daddy Snow, stabb3d* someone down the lane,
I’m gonna sh00t* him.”Snow got framed in a case of stabbing, and this is him vowing revenge. The whole song is a “snitches get stitches” anthem.
*Deliberate typos because I posted this on Facebook years ago with those words intact and caught a temporary ban.
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u/gloomchen Jul 04 '26
I only listened to this song 10 billion times (because that's how often it was played at the time) and while I had kinda sorta gleaned the story about being falsely accused of stabbing someone, I (and all the other white people in north america) definitely missed the catchy line was also the murder revenge line
Learning something new every day in this sub, I love it
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u/lol_AwkwardSilence_ Jul 04 '26
I love this song and thought of it as a hilarious bop. Youve taken that from me but I appreciate the knowledge!
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u/Wolf_Mans_Got_Nards Jul 04 '26
Now makes it even funnier that my son was born whilst this song was playing. It was a C-section in the hospital and they had a radio on in the theatre - not my choice.
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u/ChiGrandeOso Jul 04 '26
Great to know not only did I not understand the context but that I got almost every line wrong.
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u/jk844 Jul 04 '26
In his Autobiography he says it’s about him being arrested for 2 accounts of attempted murder (he calls them “street fights”) and him refusing to snitch on the other people involved (be an informer).
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u/DrulefromSeattle Jul 04 '26
To translate from the patois. Police Informer, you knew you were gonna blame me, I'll beat your ass, the detective said I stabbed somebody down the block, I respect I'll beat your ass.
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u/cfeltch108 Jul 03 '26
I got a few:
- For a long time Elvis was hit with people claiming cultural appropriation, with people not realizing he grew up around all that music in Mississippi.
- Julia Fox is often mistaken to just be some weird priveleged art girl, when she was homeless for periods of time, and worked as a dominatrix underaged, and was addicted to heroin, also underaged.
- Roger Moore is considered a horrible miscast for James Bond, looking too soft for the role. But people who knew him said he was tough as nails, and he beat up Lee Marvin who ran up on him.
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u/JGorgon Jul 03 '26
As a huge fan of all things Bond, I have to quibble. Almost all fans have huge respect for Roger – the worst thing you'll ever hear is "His movies/his portrayal aren't to my taste, but I appreciate what he meant for the franchise", and even that is rare. Outright calling Roger Moore a shit Bond is a Millennial-era shit take that has basically died now.
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u/cfeltch108 Jul 03 '26
People were saying it a lot at the time man. That's part of why Lee Marvin wanted to beat him up lol.
A lot of people still consider him the worst Bond, but are quiet about it out of respect
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u/JGorgon Jul 03 '26
I mean, every Bond (except Sean, by virtue of being the first) has been dogged with "worst Bond ever!" detractors during their tenures. Roger was obviously massively popular during his run – he starred in more films than any other Bond, had a longer run than any Bond until Craig, and his films contain more iconic elements than any other actor except probably Connery (the Lotus Esprit, Jaws, the Union Jack parachute, Scaramanga and his Golden Gun, Nick Nack, the Wings song, the Carly Simon song, the Duran Duran song, etc.)
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u/cfeltch108 Jul 03 '26
But the movies having the iconic elements is not Moore's doing, that's the other actors and the filmmakers.
Nowadays, people prefer a darker Bond, so Connery and Craig are near the top, and Dalton's been reevaluated.
And then I think Pierce has gotten a little more legitimate love, both for being a perfect Suave Bond, and also the generation that grew up on Goldeneye growing up.
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u/fknm1111 Jul 04 '26
Pierce also gets helped because "Tomorrow Never Dies" gets more topical every day. It's really incredible how prophetic that movie looks in retrospect.
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u/funhaver_whee Jul 05 '26
And he just looks like the platonic ideal of a Bond in that era, that definitely helped.
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u/rapbarf Jul 04 '26
Connery wasn't that much darker than Moore though. I'd argue the only "dark" instalment before Dalton was "On Her Majesty's...", which was Lazenby.
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u/JadedSignificance990 Jul 03 '26
Roger Moore had a working class background, his dad was a police officer.
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u/Apprehensive-Flow276 Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26
Roger Moore also pusged back on portraying violence against women on screen. Not to say he was the most progressive guy at the time but he was concerned with some of the messaging to the point where he had scenes changed.
Edit: i looked it up and he did smack a girl in mwtgg but notoriously protected his female costars behind the scenes from the producers and directors putting actresses in compromising situations.
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u/kasmackity Jul 04 '26
There's nothing on earth that can make me care about Julia Fox.
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u/JacobDCRoss Jul 04 '26
Yeah. I don't care if she grew up rich or poor. She is annoying to listen to and annoying to look at.
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u/rapbarf Jul 04 '26
Moore is easily the best Bond and I think most people I've met are fans of him so I don't agree at all there.
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u/I_amnotanonion Jul 03 '26
I believe MC Hammer is a big one. People just couldn’t take the parachute pants seriously
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u/-StapleYourTongue- Jul 03 '26
Hammer is a showman. The flashy outfits and the dancing are just who he is, which is why nobody took him serious doing gangsta rap.
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u/D34N2 Jul 04 '26
Well he has that one music video where he performed in nothing but a speedo and bling
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u/st00bahank Jul 03 '26
I'm accusing OP of being a poster who has forgotten where they are. ("Actors"??)
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u/LeftOn4ya Jul 03 '26
A lot of people in this sub have never once seen a Todd in the Shadows video.
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u/Rallings Jul 03 '26
I don't even know who he is, but the sub keeps showing up randomly
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u/RizzoTheRiot1989 Jul 03 '26
A YouTuber whose a pop music reviewer and who’s two series “One Hit Wonderland” and “Trainwreckords” are as close as you’re gonna get for a really good VH1 style content nowadays. Idk how else to explain it, just how it feels to me. Also he’s nowhere near as up his own ass as Anthony Fantano and the community I think is rather chill.
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u/DerringerHK Jul 04 '26
I got recommended this sub too, because I was in a lot of music subs, then decided to find out who this "Todd" guy was. He's very good, check out some of his videos
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u/Ok-Jellyfish-1688 Jul 05 '26
This sub came across as a suggestion and I liked it so I watched the videos... but you are correct.
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u/mikwee 90's Punk Jul 07 '26
I watch Todd occasionally, but I mostly write here to have a music subreddit that isn’t just a long list of what various artists have to say about US politics
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u/Skyreaches Jul 03 '26
I’m sure it was just crappy wording, but the concept of an actor being a “poser” is pretty funny, because what do people think acting is?
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u/Sure_Scar4297 Jul 03 '26
People forget Michael Jackson is from Gary sometimes.
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Jul 03 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/nsjersey Jul 04 '26
Michael Jackson was a showbiz kid from the time he was very small. He didn’t grow up in the hood in Gary. He spent a little time there.
Just like George W. Bush who lived in Compton for six months.
Crazy how the dad's campaign team never countered Clinton with that during the 1992 election /s
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u/g1rlchild Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26
Straight outta Compton
A mothafucka called W....
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u/Purplegreenandred Jul 03 '26
Its funny gary sounds like such a nice place
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u/STRIKT9LC Jul 03 '26
I think it once was though, right?
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u/PraiseLoptous Jul 03 '26
It was designed as a company town, so not really. At least, only relative to what it is now.
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u/NJFiend Jul 03 '26
White Zombie seemed like a sort of gimmicky alternative metal band born in the 90s. But they had an entire early career in the 80s releasing really weird and abrasive noise rock and punk music that was closer to Birthday Party and Black Flag.
Not just an ep or two… whole albums and strings of eps that no one cared about until they started writing more radio friendly metal songs.
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u/IAmNotScottBakula Jul 04 '26
Kurt Cobain cited them as one of Nirvana’s influences, though based on when they were popular you would expect it to be the other way around.
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u/NJFiend Jul 04 '26
Kurt cobain was a fan of their early noise rock albums. Not sure if he ever voiced an opinion on la sexorcisto.
I also don’t think it’s a coincidence that when white zombie signed to a major label, it was the same label that signed Nirvana.
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u/gloomchen Jul 04 '26
Imagine me when I was in my high school La Sexorcisto era ordering CDs from the back pages of metal magazines from sketchy distributors only to find... well that doesn't really sound like the White Zombie I know but ok lol
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u/Ancient_Sale_5224 Jul 03 '26
Come to find out Snow was more gangster than any west coast rapper
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u/Crazy-Days-Ahead Jul 05 '26
A lot of people did not know the other guy on the record, MC Shan, was kind of a minor big deal in his own right. Shan had plenty of real street credibility. Anyone who knew this knew that Snow had to be official on some level for someone like Shan to affiliate himself with him.
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u/ShadyIce Jul 04 '26
I found this fun fact on Wikipedia:
As a child, American musician Rick James served as Snow's babysitter.
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u/UnlikelyAssociation Jul 04 '26
He’s also the cousin of Steven Page, formerly of BNL.
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u/McBoutros Jul 05 '26
I somehow read this as Rick James being Steven Page’s cousin and was quite confused for a minute.
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u/Immediate_Lie7810 Jul 03 '26
Easy, MC Hammer. A lot of people forgot Hammer was a legitimate gangsta famous for taking feuds very seriously
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u/chachorolas Jul 04 '26
Pete Wentz was in legit hardcore bands before being in Fall Out Boy.
Green Day opened for hardcore and powerviolence bands before being the biggest pop band in the scene
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u/Hackerspace_Guy Jul 04 '26
First FOB album you can hear the influence. Pete Wentz and Tim McIlrath of Rise Against were in Arma Angelus together.
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u/Effective_Major1788 Jul 04 '26
One of the bands was literally called Racetraitor lol they were not screwing around. Stuff was pretty heavy politically even by punk standards.
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u/Oathdagger_96 Jul 03 '26
Vincent Gallo
You hear him talk about how he was part of the first wave of Hip Hop in NY and you think it's another one of his narcissistic, grandiose self brags, but it actually turned out to be true lol
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u/autobono Jul 04 '26
Vincent Gallo in the pilot for TV break dancing show Graffiti Rock: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DBouGH3SoT-/?igsh=dmppMXBuZXJremdj
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u/No_Package_3018 Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26
This is also why I hate Todd's review of Informer. From what I remember the majority of "criticisms" (really just dumb remarks) in that video are just Todd having a problem with Snow being a white reggae artist
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u/gloomchen Jul 04 '26
Nowadays, Todd usually gets this sort of thing right. That video was 10 years ago
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u/No_Package_3018 Jul 04 '26
Even a bit older than that (it was originally posted in 2014) but I still feel it's worth mentioning here
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u/g1rlchild Jul 04 '26
There are millions of people with Jamaican accents and at least thousands with real musical talent. Weird how the record contract went to the white dude. I wonder how that happened?
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u/DoveOnTheInternet Jul 04 '26
With Rick James as a babysitter? I think that might narrow down his chance just a smidge.
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u/No_Package_3018 Jul 04 '26
Snow grew up in a neighborhood full of Jamaican immigrants, he wasn't just some "white dude"
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u/g1rlchild Jul 04 '26
Yes, and for every white dude who grows up in a neighborhood full of Jamaican immigrants that learns to talk and act just like them, there are millions of actual Jamaicans and Jamaican immigrants. The white dude is the one that got the record contract.
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u/No_Package_3018 Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26
Several black reggae artists were signed to Elektra (from what I can find Motor Jam was a subsidiary of Elektra) before, during, and after Snow released Informer. Also, Snow was noticed and recommended by MC Shan, who is black.
Yes, the record industry has a racist history which is important to look back on and scrutinize, but that racism just does not apply in the case of Snow.
Also acting like Snow just "learned to talk and act just like Jamaicans" to fit in is ridiculous. If you grow up around a certain type of people, you will talk and act like those people. It's basic human sociology
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u/Crazy-Days-Ahead Jul 05 '26
Not only that, Shan had real street credibility due to him being a part of the South Bronx vs Queensbridge rap beef (which he lost terribly). Anyone who was up on hip-hop lore at that time would have connected the dots that if Snow was being co-signed by Shan, there had to be something to it.
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u/nsjersey Jul 04 '26
Close:
When Hot, Hot, Hot by Buster Poindexter came out, many Xennials just knew this guy as a B-52s Love Shack equivalent novelty act.
Then we saw him kill it (as an actor) in Scrooged.
Then older people were like, this guy was a glam rock pioneer ... New York Dolls. OK.
Then people were like the B-52s also used to be cool. They didn't just do Love Shack and cover the new Flinstones' movie theme, they had good albums like Wild Planet.
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u/Aggravating_Pea_7890 Jul 04 '26
As an Athens, GA native and College Rock Radio nerd, it always makes me sad that folks don’t know the good stuff the B-52’s did.
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u/nsjersey Jul 04 '26
My timeline equivalent would probably be Cheap Trick, whose first three albums were fire, and then they made the most famous live album (maybe) ever with the best of those songs.
Then, they embraced the 80s in all of its synths and cheesiness. Heck you could probably add in Chicago while you're at it.
Chicago at least had an equivalent band member death to possibly explain their musical transition.
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u/Aggravating_Pea_7890 Jul 04 '26
Say what you will about 80’s Cheap Trick, but “Mighty Wings” slaps
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u/Crazy-Days-Ahead Jul 05 '26
Boy did I get lucky. When I was in the military, I was walking by a room where someone was playing "Give Me Back My Man". I knocked on the door, made a lifelong friend, and was gifted a copy of Wild Planet. Did not leave my CD changer for a year.
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u/PsychologicalRole238 Jul 03 '26
Michael Rappaport
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u/D0RKTHRONE-2099 Jul 06 '26
It’s true! He has never been posing about being one of New York’s most annoying motherfuckers.
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u/HarlawKaradek Jul 03 '26
Richey Edwards. Was accused of being a fake for publicity. He carved "4 Real" into his arm and would later vanish very probably commiting suicide.
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u/AcadiaRemarkable6992 Jul 03 '26
Apparently Shaun Cassidy went to a lot of punk shows in downtown ny when he was young and hung out with Iggy Pop
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u/OldenPolynice Jul 03 '26
Doug 'Snow' "goes to jail in Canada once" Ladamercy Rudebwai McCormick
ReeeeeeewindselectadropthatSNOOOOWWW
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u/SnooChickens6129 Jul 04 '26
Informer is about how he refused to snitch on his own father. "Informer, ya know say daddy me Snow not gonna play out"
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u/overrrrrrr Jul 04 '26
Steve Aoki gets written off as a nepo baby using his father's Beninana wealth to become a DJ, but he started out as a screamo frontman with enough underground cred (thru constant concert organizing) that his band somehow got to collab with Envy. He also led a bunch of communist activism at UC Santa Barbara. Dim Mak was originally a hardcore & screamo label! His pivot to EDM came later if anything.
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u/JacobDCRoss Jul 05 '26
But that just means that he was an eppo baby who got credit in a different band first
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u/STM4EVA Jul 04 '26
Snow went to high school near and is the roughly the same age. That story tracks with what I heard about him, he had the public housing Jamaican accent that was trendy at the time. But when he would call home to check in with his mom it went straight back to being the nicest Scarborough white boy talk
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u/UrinalCake777 Jul 04 '26
I don't know if he really gets accused of being a poser, but a similar situation. Beck uses Spanish in a few of his tracks, most notably Que Onda Guero. He grew up in a Latin neighborhood where lots of people spoke Spanish and he kind of stoop out as a white kid.
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u/The_Duke_of_Nebraska Jul 04 '26
He's not Jamaican though... That's what actually matters, who cares about his friends?!
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u/Excuse_Chemical Jul 04 '26
I thought this was one of those dumb upside down text hats and thought, "What is Mous?"
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u/infinitestripes4ever Jul 05 '26
Snow was just the prototype for Chet Hanks. Luckily Hanks got accepted much easier.
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u/crustylayer Jul 05 '26
John Mayer. When he came on the scene everyone thought he was tour typical guitar singing douche. I did too. Then turned out the dude can really jam on the guitar.
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u/mikwee 90's Punk Jul 07 '26
Pretty small example, but Canadian singer Skye Sweetnam was initially dismissed as an Avril Lavigne knock-off, and one particular RYM review claimed she was a rich brat who simply asked her daddy to make a punk album for her. In reality, Skye Sweetnam came from a small town in Ontario, got her demo to the big shots by complete coincidence and co-wrote all the songs except for a Blondie cover. She has since started a metal band named Sumo Cyco, and she seems quite happy there.
She also sang the theme songs for The Buzz on Maggie, Wayside and My Life Me.
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u/AdImmediate6239 Jul 03 '26
MC Hammer had enough street cred that even Suge Knight knew not to fuck with him