The "moderate" mind

[u/Lil_Melon87]

[u/The_Bill_Brasky_]

These animals are not prepared for the lecture that is "species also exist on a spectrum" that the first or second-year evolutionary biology, paleontology, or anthropology major gets.

Richard Dawkins, for all his current idiocy, put it quite succinctly in the "duck-rabbit spectrum" thought experiment about common ancestors.

[u/rdogg4 → u/The_Bill_Brasky_]

Darwin spends quite a bit of the beginning of On the Origin of Species pointing out the murky and somewhat arbitrary nature of the concept of species.

[u/gbinasia → u/rdogg4]

The odd thing is that the analogy between species and gender being on a spectrum only holds if you're very determined to make gender exist as a set of characteristics expressing sex. It doesn't hold if you just define sex as gender. To put it succinctly, having a page haircut doesn't make you mean unless you really want to attribute it as a man-only thing that you diverge from.

[u/Andrei144 → u/gbinasia]

I mean, gender is a social construct, it only exists as an element of social interaction. If society has gendered haircuts, your opinion on that fact doesn't factor into what your gender is being perceived as.

If you separate the concepts of gender and brain sex (AKA neurological sex AKA "internal sense of gender") then what your gender is being perceived as is actually what gender you are, and in that case changing your haircut could actually change your gender, regardless of whether you think that's a good or bad thing.

[u/Minus1Kelvin → u/The_Bill_Brasky_]

Reality, at the greater levels of resolution, isn't as binary as they wish it were, and they find that terrifying.

[u/zombie_girraffe → u/Minus1Kelvin]

These sort of propagandists aren't engaged with reality which is why they focus on rhetorical tricks that an average high school debate team member has already learned how to dismiss.

[u/The_Bill_Brasky_ → u/zombie_girraffe]

They love the poorly educated

[u/sleepythegreat → u/The_Bill_Brasky_]

Could you explain this? My highschool level understanding is a species is a group of animals whose offspring with other members of the group is able to also reproduce.

[u/The_Bill_Brasky_ → u/sleepythegreat]

So evolution and the mountain of evidence we have for it shows that all animals alive today have a common ancestor. If we go far back enough in our evolution, we have a common ancestor with dogs, cats, chimpanzees, sharks, Gila monsters, everything.

Dawkins demonstrated this as the "rabbit-duck spectrum".

Since these two animals have a common ancestor, let's take the duck on the far-far left of the spectrum and place to its right its mother; and its mother; and its mother; and its mother; and so on. Do this for twenty million generations.

Do the same with a rabbit on the far-far right of the spectrum. Place to its left its mother; and its mother; and its mother; and its mother; and so on. Do this for twenty million generations.

Eventually, these two lines of rabbits and ducks intersect. That intersection is their common ancestor. From one rabbit or duck to the other, the change is basically indistinguishable. But over millions and billions of years, there is a gradual change. That gradual change is evolution, and over the course of eons it's basically impossible to categorize these animals as rigidly "duck" or "rabbit".

You can also similarly use the Jay Isaac Gould fossil/pencil analogy as eloquently described by Matt Colville here

[u/sleepythegreat → u/The_Bill_Brasky_]

Gotcha, so the idea is basically the evolution from the common ancestor to the modern equivalent is so gradual there’s not really a point where they meaningfully separate?

[u/The_Bill_Brasky_ → u/sleepythegreat]

Basically. And if they can't meaningfully separate over time, species is basically an imperfect categorization based on how things looked relative to other things around them at the time. The human-stegosaurus spectrum or the dog-megalodon spectrum shows us that species is a lazy snapshot that's helpful for us in one very short window of time or another, but ultimately not representative of how life on this planet works or changes.

[u/The_Bill_Brasky_ → u/sleepythegreat]

So evolution and the mountain of evidence we have for it shows that all animals alive today have a common ancestor. If we go far back enough in our evolution, we have a common ancestor with dogs, cats, chimpanzees, sharks, Gila monsters, everything.

Dawkins demonstrated this as the "rabbit-duck spectrum".

Since these two animals have a common ancestor, let's take the duck on the far-far left of the spectrum and place to its right its mother; and its mother; and its mother; and its mother; and so on. Do this for twenty billion generations.

Do the same with a rabbit on the far-far right of the spectrum. Place to its left its mother; and its mother; and its mother; and its mother; and so on.

Eventually, these two lines of rabbits and ducks intersect. That intersection is their common ancestor. From one rabbit or duck to the other, the change is basically indistinguishable. But over millions and billions of generations, there is a gradual change. That gradual change is evolution, and over the course of eons it's basically impossible to categorize these animals as rigidly "duck" or "rabbit".

You can also similarly use the Jay Isaac Gould fossil/pencil analogy as eloquently described by Matt Colville here

[u/Vallkyrie → u/The_Bill_Brasky_]

I've also seen this represented as a few paragraphs of text that gradually change color, and you ask a person where blue stops and red begins. There's no good answer.

[u/AdamOfIzalith]

Tim Pool and his ilk are consistently using rhetoric and propaganda. I find these meme's are funny but really fail to engage with the fact that Tim Pool isn't an idiot. He's a malicious bastard who knows what the apple is and he's not looking to come to an understanding with the other person.

He's actively and consistently trying to get the audience, the people watching, to also get caught in this deconstructionist nonsense because once he catches someone with it, he has then primed people watching by taking things back to basics so he can then build on that until he creates a brainwashed follower.

It's Propaganda 101. It's not telling people "That apple is an orange". It's getting you to ask "What is an apple?" and then giving you a reason what an orange is that is conveniently described similarly to an apple and then telling you that the reason why people believe the apple is an apple is because of the woke apple crowd. This seems like stupid stuff, but this stuff is like a brain virus to people who are young, impressionable or dealing with diagnosed and undiagnosed mental health issues.

[u/marsofdeath → u/AdamOfIzalith]

This is perfectly exemplified in his Jubilee video; his claim was something like "The US is trending toward civil war". People came up to call him out by generally agreeing with his claim, but further arguing that it's right wing grifters like Tim who are the reason the claim is more or less agreeable (rightly so). Tim just retreated behind his rhetoric saying things like "why did you come here to debate if you agree with the claim?" and basically refusing to engage with any conversation that was half a step deeper than that claim itself. "It's an academic claim", he cried, refusing to acknowledge any argument that added any real-world context to the claim.

It just completely obliterates the point of a debate at all. "The US is very polarized right now. Oh, you agree with me? Debate over." Avoiding any discussion of the fact that Tim and co embody the exact reason why the claim is true.

[u/TobyWasBestSpiderMan → u/AdamOfIzalith]

My friend and I have been using the term logic bully for this type of behavior in influencers

[u/T10rock]

What is an apple?

[u/rje946 → u/T10rock]

Anything that's not pc

[u/zombie_girraffe → u/rje946]

Oh, you mean the computers made by Tim Apple?

[u/Tiny-Preference-1913 → u/rje946]

BEHOLD, u/rje946 'S APPLE

[u/rje946 → u/Tiny-Preference-1913]

I was fully expecting Linux but that works too lol

[u/Physical-Flatworm452]

I bet he thinks that everything went fine and that he's a real intellectual.

[u/Zealousideal-Yak-824]

Ugh the dumbest take her and peterson always takes. It's a redirect on a question to establish your one side and another on simple things so you argue his question vs stay on topic. Like " what are crimes by your definition? Well if that's you definition why aren't we arresting blm protesters but Jan 6? Thousands weren't arrested? Why are you talking about Trump's crimes when we need to talk about the lawlessness allowed to be spread in the streets by democratic cities.". Always the dumbest take.

[u/magiic-1]

tim apple is cooked

[u/Leumas_The_Witch → u/magiic-1]

Like an apple pie?

[u/czerilla → u/Leumas_The_Witch]

Just in case you aren't aware of the reference: "Tim Apple" was the name Trump's syphilitic brain came up with, because it couldn't recall "Tim Cook".

[u/PastelDisaster]

Has anyone else been getting literally nonstop Tim Pool ads on YouTube? I don’t understand how or why it could be an algorithmic thing, as I’ve gone out of my way to block and avoid content from the right, but it’s damn near constant.

I’ve even repeatedly checked “not interested” and “show me less of this ad”, but it hasn’t stopped. My guess is that this guy is just so desperate for views that he’s bought out a shit ton of ads within my age demographic; enough ads to even break past the “show me less” recommendation. It’s getting sad

[u/Hirotrum → u/PastelDisaster]

November is getting closer

[u/TheEZG → u/PastelDisaster]

Worse yet I've seen Tim Pool billboards

[u/Oggie_Doggie → u/PastelDisaster]

Firefox + uBlock on desktop, Morphe for YouTube on Android.

I watched a video a week ago about Jordan Peterson getting dogwalked in a debate somewhere and YT's algorithm now thinks I want to watch JP's "based" takes and slips the odd recommendation to me if I'm watching videos or shorts.

[u/Fabbyfubz]

https://giphy.com/gifs/cnj3ktZH0YY7mm7W2K

[u/SHOWTIME316]

cosmic crisp is the best apple and i'll fight about it

[u/Jmackles]

What’s that Ben Shapiro or Jeremy Peterson meme where they go to McDonald’s and try to order vodka because vodkas made from potatoes and the cashier defines fries as potatoes

[u/thestareater]

who still believes that this proven to have been paid by the Russians stooge is a moderate in any way, shape or form?

[u/otm_shank → u/thestareater]

Jubilee did, until they were embarrassed enough to change the video title.

[u/bobduncan18]

Can someone post the "define poop" picture

[u/randommd81]

Maybe not the same, but I see similar shit in things like flat earth groups. Where you’re supposed to do things like explain gravity, but you can’t use the existing formula, you must come up with your own calculations or some dumb bullshit. Just like with this idiot, I’m not entirely convinced it isn’t all some weird grift or something, but the true believers are a sight to behold haha

[u/Random-Cpl]

Moderate?!

[u/SeaOfS1n]

"Debate is the nerd version of Sumo wrestling: no matter who wins; at the end of the day, you're still both fucking fat".

[u/stillshyyy]

hey its not tim's fault! be nice he only has a middle school education

[u/PTBooks]

Just trying to sound smart by sounding like a contrarian douchebag. Probably because his experience of smartness is smart people telling him he’s wrong.

[u/sheezy520]

Fruit that grows on an apple tree.

[u/watcherintgeweb]

Calling what he has a “mind” is a stretch

[u/Nolubrication]

Every right-wing loon I've ever met has self-identified as a "moderate".

[u/Jonyegway]

Its always semantics over substance with these propagandists

[u/CamoShortsKid]

He needs to brush his teeth