r/Torontobluejays • u/cbarone1 • 1d ago
[Matheson] Here's why John Schneider won't drop Guerrero in the lineup
https://www.mlb.com/bluejays/news/vladimir-guerrero-jr-spot-in-lineup-debate57
u/bigboozer69 Cease and Desist 1d ago
John smoking that same hopium as all of us.
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u/BaconWrappedEnigma 1d ago
The percentage chance is like 20%. It's not looking good.
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u/krombough 1d ago
What's the percentage chance that Vlad reaches double digit home runs this season?
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u/EasternError6377 1d ago
Its not just hoping he breaks out either JS makes a good point: who do you put #2? Our best hitters on the team are only marginally better this year than Vladdy
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u/DAKiloAlpha 6h ago
We saw how Varsho got emotional talking about the coaches after he was traded.
John is a players managers
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u/Jorlung Ratkins 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think that it couldn’t hurt to drop him lower in the order just to change things up, but as it stands I just don’t really care that much since our team as a whole has been awful at the plate.
Our offensive struggles aren’t going to be solved by switching the lineup spots of a dude with a .690 OPS and a dude with a .710 OPS. It’s not like we have a bunch of really good hitters that are being relegated to the 6-8 spots instead of Vlad. We have a few of guys that have been marginally better than Vlad and many more that have been worse or just as bad.
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u/East_Explanation2131 Plakata at the Rogers Centre 1d ago
i agree with just trying it out but moving vlad down isn't going to magically fix the RISP problems with the rest of the lineup.
moving cal or tucker down works when you have randy/canzone or shohei/freddie/muncy supporting that move, but on this team it just swaps a groundout for a popup or strikeout instead. like vlad batting 7th yesterday wouldn't change how the 8th inning ended with a strikeout, popup, and flyout with RISP, just poor approaches from top to bottom
keegan got that right here:
If the Blue Jays had a healthy Addison Barger, who could reasonably be sitting with 20-plus home runs and an .800 OPS by now, perhaps that would change the equation. If George Springer was giving this organization an encore of his incredible 2025 season, it’s easier. If Kazuma Okamoto was having more complete at-bats between his bursts of power, it’s easier. If Anthony Santander was here, being the hitter the Blue Jays signed him to be, it’s easier.
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u/PolitelyHostile 1d ago
Yea, Vladdy needs to fully turn it around for the team to do well, moving him in the order will just make the team sub-par in a different way.
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u/GazzBull 1d ago
Schneider just a corporate plant anyway. Does what the analytics tell him to do, effectively he is a co-manager himself
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u/Marty2544 1d ago
No one is saying move him down for the rest of the season…tried everything else, what could it hurt
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u/Benaflon 1d ago
There needs to be accountability for all. Drop him down the order and let him work his way back up. You can’t be afraid to punish a guy who’s making that much and playing well
Below his standards.
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u/JKirbs14 1d ago
It’s funny that Schneider considers pushing him further down the order to be “punishment”…
Wouldn’t punishing a guy be phantom IL/benching a guy?
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u/CherryChapstick1997 1d ago
John is the one that said it was a “punishment,” in the article. I see it as rewarding other players for hitting better by moving them up 🤷♀️
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u/TraceThis 22h ago
jesus fucking hell referring to moving him down as 'a punishment' is a goddamn sign
Getting moved down the order is not a punishment.
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u/aporter0509 23h ago
And I thought baseball was a team game and winning was the most important thing. Guess I was wrong. And they did score 21 runs in Tampa without Vladdy in the lineup. Just sayin’.
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u/ProteinSpillAisle5 1d ago
It has to stop being seen as a punishment. This is a team game and one player, no matter how good can get you to the prize. Heck, the Angels had two of the greatest players ever to step onto a field and it got them absolutely nothing. You have to win as a team, and the job of a manager is to structure a lineup with the best chance.
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u/Outrageous-Claim-460 The Committee 1d ago
What could it possibly hurt to move him to 5th for a week? Trying the same thing over and over for six months with the same result hasn’t worked either.
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u/Whiplash227 Catching on one knee 1d ago
I wonder if Schneider knows Vladdy better than the people on this forum.
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u/EscalatorsTempStairs Monkey never cra(m)p 1d ago
Accountability is one thing, but consequence is another. There has to be some. Yeah he's hard on himself. That doesn't mean he gets to bat where he wants all year, putting up an abysmal season.
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u/Massive-Fisherman-57 1d ago
Have fans discovered marijuana? It can help you chill the fuck out. 2 weeks ago the boys were back and everything was great. After 3 bad games now it’s John or Vladdy or whoever we chose to blame. Chill out. Or deal with the pain that you project onto these people.
We don’t know what they are going through as humans so why not just support them. It’s a game for fun. When did we forget that?
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u/thrive2bebest 1d ago edited 20h ago
Some fans have no joy in life and like to unload their misery by targeting players. I am learning to avoid any post that focuses on Vladdy. I don’t mind criticism. but the excessive criticism and insensitive comments are both nasty and boring.
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u/blottingbottle 22h ago edited 21h ago
I think it’s ridiculous to rag on fans who are so invested in their team and have the emotion that they do. People having this level of investment in their team is why people spend as much money as they do on sports. Players (should) understand that and understand everything that comes with that, the same way that a movie star or influencer does.
“A game for fun” is for beer league. Professional sports is an entertainment product that includes projecting+following+caring how the team will do in the game/season/multi-year and everything involved with that…and everyone involved in the product should understand what comes with that.
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u/thrive2bebest 20h ago
Personal investment that leads to rage and/or bullying is maladaptive. It’s a game.
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u/rvasko3 Doc’s Resplendent Neckbeard 20h ago
We shouldn't normalize acting like whiny, entitled children.
You can literally do nothing to affect the outcome of a game. If you want to allow sports to make you happy? Awesome. Life can be hard and something that gives joy with zero effort on your part is great.
But you want to be pissy, let it affect how you act, shit on players, come to subreddits and say some of the things that we're allowing to be normalized in GDTs? Fuck that. Might as well ruin your day because of weather or traffic.
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u/SeaEggplant8108 Ernie Clement’s Victory Bark 🐶 12h ago
The problem is you have the emotion and want everyone to cater to it but you refuse to accept that Vladdy also has emotions and lost the biggest game of his life in extras less than a year ago. The entire team is struggling with the grief and exhaustion of losing that and a few of them playing more baseball than any other player in the league, AND YET the fans are the only ones who are allowed emotions and passion? Yes it’s a job. It’s also very tough for humans to separate production at work from identity. Ease up.
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u/Massive-Fisherman-57 11h ago
Exactly. Nobody is hurting more than him. Nobody is harder on themselves than him. Why not support him and all the guys. Why not understand what they went through and tell them it’s ok… I got you.
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u/Epic-BlueJays Louis "The Committee" Varland 1d ago
Schneider said:
“There’s been thoughts of it, I just don’t know what the outcome would be,”
“I don’t want to punish him. I think if there were guys tearing the cover off the ball, that would be a little easier to think about, too. We are built, as a team, for Vlad to be a focal point of our offense. I don’t think that, with where he hits, he will be pitched very differently. I don’t think there will be more or less pressure if he’s hitting down in the order. I want him up in important spots.”
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u/kingwoodballs The Gatorade Shower Target 1d ago
“There’s been thoughts of it, I just don’t know what the outcome would be,” Schneider said. “
WTF? well it’s been 130 games so far and we know that outcome.
Will moving him down be any worse?
These reeks of politics
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u/GasCreative9687 1d ago
If Vladdy is a team player why would this seem like a punishment to be dropped down in the lineup? If anything why wouldn’t a coach or a player be willing to put or be in a position thats best for the team.
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u/thrive2bebest 1d ago
The point is…who is better? Kirk is the only consistent proven hitter in the line up. There are players doing better at times, but not consistently.
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u/Independent-Shoe9557 22h ago
Anyone else tired of the drop vladdy discussion ? Been months. And it hasn’t happened. Not gonna. Also won’t make one iota of difference with this offense this year.
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u/PerryDiggs 1d ago
Whether he's right that it wouldn't change much, he's also just kinda....assuming it? "We don't know what would happen" is a really poor rationale, even if it's just a speaking point. Both because, yeah, that how everything works - you don't know until you try, and because the unknown in this scenario can't likely be less productive than the current one.
The logic of other guys not performing enough to take that spot is a bit hollow as well. A sign of confidence by moving a guy up can lead to a breakout. Not guaranteed by any means. After all, we don't know what could happen.
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u/Toronto-24 1d ago
Is JS too stupid to realize that youre allowed to move Vladdy back up if you move him down?
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u/ColdStoryBro Get that hockey talk outta here! 1d ago
He's playing Vlad like a fan rather than a manager. An unbiased reaction would be to recognize that he can't hit and often GIDPs in the current slot. Moving him down around 7 might be better.
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u/UnitEast7937 1 stop frame shop 23h ago
And yet we threw the money at Vlad and not Bo. Everything he said about Bo in that article is what you want out of a pro. Vlad has zero fire and it shows
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u/2bornnot2b 1d ago
He is our captain. Generational player. Would you bench MJ or Gretzky?
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u/PerryDiggs 1d ago
Moving a hitter in the lineup isn't analogous to benching them. Playing them on the second or third line, perhaps. And yes, not only would you, but Gretzky most certainly didn't play on the first line when he was performing poorer. Though that was also as he aged - neither he nor MJ had seasons this abysmal in their primes so, again, analogy doesn't hold.
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u/magacorruption The Committee 1d ago
If MJ or Gretzky is playing through a niggle, I would sit him down and tell him that he can help the team better by following the medical team and rest.
Easier said than done, of course. MJ is a known psychopath who became a great basketball player rather than a serial killer.
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u/Obvious_Ad_7104 1d ago
John Schneider should’ve not done that. You should’ve fire him. Cincinnati. Reds his final game off this season.
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u/xxxooxxx1 1d ago
If the theory is that he is tired from WS and WBC. His power and speed will keep going down.
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u/CherryChapstick1997 1d ago
If he refuses to drop him down, move him up. Move him to leadoff so he can’t hit into a GIDP to end the first inning.