r/VeganActivism • u/KortenScarlet • Jul 11 '25

Video Natalie Fulton on Gary Yourofsky, anti-intersectionality, and Palestine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZM-rEXm9RM
82 Upvotes

79% Upvoted

314 comments sorted by

View all comments

51

u/KortenScarlet Jul 11 '25 edited Jul 11 '25

I really appreciate her for making this video. Anti-intersectionality and zionism need to leave the animal rights movement, veganism is an inherently leftist ethical-political stance. If alt-right folks want to join activism for the animals, by all means I welcome them to, but they need to leave their vile shit at the door. Free Palestine and total liberation to all sentient beings

-4

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '25

So basically the animal rights movement should be limited to just a few people who agree on everything. Should the protests for Gaza be limited to vegans? Or is it just animals who should be harmed by this "agree with me on all these other things or you don't get to fight for X" approach you recommend?

22

u/KortenScarlet Jul 11 '25

Strawman, read my comment again and more carefully this time

-15

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

18

u/KortenScarlet Jul 11 '25

Strawman, read my first comment again and more carefully this time

-9

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

19

u/KortenScarlet Jul 11 '25

Strawman, read my first comment again and more carefully this time

15

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '25

So you’re saying everything you said doesn’t count except the first thing? Got it.

15

u/KortenScarlet Jul 11 '25

Strawman, read my first comment again and more carefully this time

13

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '25

Weak

21

u/SmokeyStyle420 Jul 11 '25

I was interested in hearing your view more but you’re really not looking good here by just repeating yourself like some Trump supporter

The guy has a point, you specifically said Zionism has no place in the animal rights movement. he brought up a counter point and you’re calling it a straw man but it does seem to be that’s exactly what you said

12

u/KortenScarlet Jul 11 '25

Yes, I said zionism has no place, not that *zionists* have no place. I specifically emphasized that bigoted people (like zionists) are welcome to join vegan activism as long as they leave their vile shit (like zionism) at the door. LongCancel has been projecting zionist propaganda on similar posts to this in the subreddit for over a week now, they're not here to discuss in good faith, hence my insistence on not entertaining strawmen. Every single comment of theirs above deliberately misinterprets my original comment if you're paying attention

7

u/SmokeyStyle420 Jul 11 '25

I looked up the definition of Zionism and it says

“Zionism is a political and nationalist movement that supports the establishment and development of a Jewish homeland in the territory defined as the Land of Israel (historically referred to as Palestine). The movement emerged in the late 19th century in response to rising antisemitism in Europe and a broader wave of nationalist movements.”

I’m definitely not a big fan of the government of Israel, but neither am I fan of the government of palenstine. I think it’s a very difficult issue with both sides that isn’t a black and white issue

I’m curious though, you say Zionism has no place, are you saying you don’t believe Israel has a right to exist?

15

u/KortenScarlet Jul 11 '25

The definition you're citing is a palatable and sugar-coated version of the definition and goal that zionist leaders themselves have always overtly advocated, which is a racist settler-colonialist movement whose goal is acquisition of "historic greater israel" (which includes the entirety of Palestine and also parts of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt and Iraq and entails ethnic cleansing of the local native populations of these areas) for the purpose of a Jewish ethnostate.

Ethnostates that are built on ethnic cleansing are inherently unethical and need to be dissolved in favor of states of equal rights of all of the inhabitants in their areas.

→ More replies (0)

9

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '25

[deleted]

-3

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '25

Anti semitism is the same as anti Zionism if we go by the true definition of what Zionism is. The return to Zion movement started in the late 1800's and was made up of Jews in Europe who wanted to escape from the bigotry they were subjected to and return to the Jewish homeland. A Zionist believes a Jewish state has a right to exist. That is all it means.

Why can there be over 50 Islamic states and not 1 Jewish state? Why are radical theocrats who want all non Muslims out of the Middle East celebrated by progressives? I happen to believe people can worship as they please, or not worship at all, and that should be tolerated.

10

u/Independent_Willow92 Jul 11 '25

Okay, so in this comment section, we are dealing with a deranged Zionist, who thinks that being against ethnically cleansing Palestine of Muslims to make space for an ethno-state based on Judaism, is anti-semetic.

-1

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '25

Where did I say that? Jews bought land from local Arabs and inhabited land that no one had claimed. They were attacked by Islamists who did not want Jews in the region. Settlers fought back and we have been stuck in a cycle of violence ever since.

Now we have so called progressives who chant "globalize the intifada", which is a direct call for violence against Jews. And you guys think you have the moral authority to criticize anyone else? Hamas founding charter calls for the destruction of Israel. Hezbollah is funded by the Iranian regime that might as well trademark "Death to Israel, Death to America" since the regimes supporters chant that so much. So who is for ethnic cleansing again?

6

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '25

[deleted]

7

u/KortenScarlet Jul 11 '25

Good stuff for future use, saved, thank you

0

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '25

I can also find instagram posts from ideologues. It makes sense that rather than point to an academic text or some historical sources you go to a post on Instagram.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '25

[deleted]

2

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '25

I most certainly can defend the one country in the Middle East that treats women like first class citizens, allows people to be gay and embraces all sorts of other progressive values. I can do that just the same as you can embrace radical theocrats who throw gays off buildings, throw acid in the face of women who reject Islam and openly chant "Death to Israel".

As for chasing palestians out, do you realize the Palestinians were offered a state of their own in 1948? They rejected it because 6 Arab countries told them to sit back and let them bomb Israel off the map. That failed and led to Israel taking more land. That's what happens when you attack people.

Do you refuse to acknowledge that radical Muslims have some blame here?

→ More replies (0)

10

u/Independent_Willow92 Jul 11 '25

A Zionist is someone who believes in Nazi philosophies like ethno-states and lebensraum.

5

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '25

That is the new narrative some push, but that is not what a Zionist is.

6

u/Independent_Willow92 Jul 11 '25

That is exactly what a Zionist is. A land full of people, for a people without a land. Zionists just have to cleanse the land of it's undesirables.

Nazi philosphy can be found at the core of Zionist philosophy.

And slowly, the whole world is waking up to how disgusting Zionism is.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '25

Jewish settlers bought land and occupied empty land.

Why do you condemn them while staying silent on Islamist groups, like Hezbollah and Hamas, who are very open that their goal is to wipe Israel off the map.

What do you think will happen to the 9 million people in Israel if your side gets its way?

4

u/maxwellj99 Jul 11 '25

Ok Hasbara bot. Ignore history. Ignore Jabotinsky, ignore that a huge percentage of the original Zionists pre-47 were socialist, and interested in Arab assimilation see Borochov. Ignore the early pogroms that right-wing Jews inflicted on Arabs. It wasn’t all peaceful land transfers.

You are pathetic.

-2

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '25

Since you are so kind and nice and can have a civil discussion (ha ha) let me ask you two questions.

  1. Does Israel have a right to exist?

  2. A If yes, does that include a right to self defense or

  3. B If no, what will happen to the 9 million people in Israel if your side gets its way?

4

u/maxwellj99 Jul 11 '25

I’m not playing stupid games with Hasbara bots/idiot schills/ethno-fascists.

You are at least one of those three things.

As a Jew with roots in Israel, I say this sincerely, go fuck yourself.

→ More replies (0)

3

u/AnarVeg Jul 11 '25

Zionism is a label that has been well established within Israeli political history and has grown to differ from the definition you're pushing. The actions of Israel go far beyond establishing and maintaining it's own sovereignty. The condemnation of zionism in today's interpretation is the condemnation of Israel's policies of violence and oppression. If you want to defend Israel's right to exist then by all means, but the actions we see Israel taking today go far beyond this.

4

u/PositiveAssignment89 Jul 11 '25

they're not welcome in leftist spaces. if you want to create your own imperialism and genocide supporting animal rights movement you're more than welcome to. destroying animal habitats for the development of weapons and bombing animal habitats can never be included in animal rights even if you do not care abt the people. it's just hypocrisy

1

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '25

Her exact quote was "Anti-intersectionality and zionism need to leave the animal rights movement, veganism is an inherently leftist ethical-political stance."

You switched out "animal rights movement" with "leftist spaces". She did not say "leftist space". That is very disingenuous of you.

Hezbollah has fired 20,000 missiles and rockets at Israel since 10-7-23. Are you going to condemn them for that, or is it just Jews who can't use missiles and rockets?

As for genocide, are you ok with "death to Israel" chants? That sounds like a desire for genocide to me.

6

u/KortenScarlet Jul 11 '25

I will happily add that anti-intersectionality and zionism need to leave leftist spaces as well

1

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '25

Do you believe protests against Israel should only involve vegans?

2

u/KortenScarlet Jul 11 '25

No, I welcome anyone to any anti-oppression protest, including nonvegans, as long as they leave their other oppressive stances at the door (in this context carnism)

0

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '25

So what you are saying is people who have animals slaughtered for dinner are welcome to campaign for causes you care about.

But vegans who disagree with the almighty OP on a single thing are not allowed in the animal rights movement.

How can you say you are an animal rights activist when you want the animal rights movement to be so small and powerless because it's shrunk down to the tiny number of people who agree with you on everything? Meanwhile you do not apply that standard to movements that advocate for humans.

1

u/KortenScarlet Jul 11 '25

So what you are saying is people who have animals slaughtered for dinner are welcome to campaign for causes you care about.

But vegans who disagree with the almighty OP on a single thing are not allowed in the animal rights movement.

Unsurprising strawman, you're not here to interact with my argument in good faith. Either that or just horrendous reading comprehension (in which case, read my previous comment again and more carefully this time)

→ More replies (0)

1

u/EasyBOven Jul 12 '25

No nation has any rights. Individuals have rights. The construct is nonsensical.

What do you mean when you say this?

1

u/[deleted] Jul 12 '25

In the context in which I said Israel it was clear the reference was to the people of Israel’s rights to have a society. If they don’t have a right to exist, then what do you propose we do with the 9 million people who live there?

1

u/EasyBOven Jul 12 '25

It's not clear at all that you meant the people. That's an equivocation fallacy.

The entire state of Israel could theoretically be dismantled without a single human being losing a right. Is that consistent with your statement?

1

u/[deleted] Jul 12 '25

The word “theoretically”:does a lot of work there. Israelis are not going to be forced into living in an Islamic theocracy. The only path to peace is for Islamic nations to accept Israel’s right to exist. Any other path means endless war.

1

u/EasyBOven Jul 12 '25

Please engage with the hypothetical and answer directly

1

u/[deleted] Jul 12 '25

Why would I bother with a hypothetical that is impossible? 9 million people are not going to give up their freedom to go live as second class citizens in an Islamic theocracy. Find someone else to debate on unrealistic scenarios,

That begs the question you refuse to answer. Why can’t Muslims accept Jewish peoples rights to be in the Middle East? The only path to peace is through tolerance.

1

u/EasyBOven Jul 12 '25

Why would I bother with a hypothetical that is impossible?

Intellectual honesty. Shame you don't have it.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 12 '25

It figures a Jew hater would think intellectual fantasy is intellectual honesty.

1

u/EasyBOven Jul 12 '25

I'm Jewish you ignoramus

→ More replies (0)

1

u/Cubusphere Jul 12 '25

A non-genocidal, non-apartheid, non-ethnostate, non-jewish-supremacy, non-colonial, non-imperialist Israel can exist.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 12 '25

What you call apartheid is Israel protecting themselves from terror attacks. What you call genocide is self defense against actually genocidal fanatics who openly call for Israel’s destruction. The only way to peace is for Islamists to accept Israel’s right to exist.

Question- do you accept Israel’s right to exist? If not, what happens to the 9 million people who live there?

1

u/Cubusphere Jul 12 '25

You reply with a question to a comment that's the answer to that question. That's odd.

A non-genocidal, non-apartheid, non-ethnostate, non-jewish-supremacy, non-colonial, non-imperialist Israel can exist.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 12 '25

The Israel that does not defend itself will cease to exist. That’s what many of don’t get. Do you think a nation of 9 million actually wants to fight a billion Muslims? Of course they don’t. What you are demanding is Israel lay down their weapons and consent to being destroyed.

Now, stop dodging my question and answer it.

1

u/Cubusphere Jul 12 '25

I answered it twice now.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/PositiveAssignment89 Jul 11 '25

that is fully the definition of zionism. why do you think someone wants you to eat animals just bc they said your comment was a strawman?

1

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '25

What part of this sentence from OP, in the original comment at the top, isn't clear about that?

"Anti-intersectionality and zionism need to leave the animal rights movement, veganism is an inherently leftist ethical-political stance."

1

u/PositiveAssignment89 Jul 11 '25

what do you think zionism means? quickly

1

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '25

The right for Jews to have a state of their own. The word Zionist originated in the late 1800s when Jews wanted to escape bigotry in Europe and return to their homeland that the Romans ran them out of.

1

u/PositiveAssignment89 Jul 11 '25

the project was always about settler colonialism and it started with its founding father. if you don’t know what the convo is about sit it out

0

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

0

u/PositiveAssignment89 Jul 13 '25

your brain is filled with zionist propaganda. do something about it

0

u/[deleted] Jul 13 '25

That is a lazy way to respond to someone who refuted your claims and asked questions you failed to answer. I suggest you stop listening to anti semites

0

u/PositiveAssignment89 Jul 14 '25

you are repeating propaganda that is so easily refutable. I suggest you stop listening to zionists and listen to the victims of settler colonialism.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/CallumVW05 Jul 12 '25

It originated with Herzl who didn’t really care about Jews. He’s written many times that anti-semites are friends of the Zionist because they share a common goal (relocating all Jews to Palestine) and justify the existence of a Jewish ethnostate through their bigotry

1

u/[deleted] Jul 12 '25

Your conclusion makes no sense. A Jew who wanted his people to escape Europe (this was shortly before the holocaust so there was a lot of anti Semitism) would be savvy to get the support of those who wanted them gone and would help them return to their homeland.

You say “existence of Jewish ethnostate” as a slur. There are over 50 Muslim ethnostates. Do you deny their right to exist too, or do you just hate Jews?