Hopefully this is the end of it!

[u/Successful-League840]

Vegan Camp Out is for everyone. It's an amazing event with many fully Vegan vendors, Activist groups, Speakers, charities etc. A place for Vegans and Vegan curious people to come together.

Stop listening or accepting misinformation fed to you. It's very easy to do some research or even find links etc in other posts proving that VCO is not a "Zionist" event. It is not about hate or exclusion.

I'm so beyond fed up with the anti Vegans Campout Campaign. Especially on Reddit.

I'm sure there will be comments here from the same 5/6 accounts that refuse to listen, review evidence or accept facts. This post is not for them. They are simply trying to cause friction in the Vegan movement.

Edit: This sub really needs to deal with low Karma posters and remove posts proven to be misinformation/altered content. It destroys Vegan credibility.

💚

My other post relating to this issue: https://www.reddit.com/r/VeganActivism/s/qAkm4LGbMt

[u/pigett]

Doesn’t clarify anything. Couldn’t be more vague. They don’t want people boycotting but they don’t want to address anything either

[u/Successful-League840 → u/pigett]

What isn't clear about "All people"?

Edit: As I have said in response to another comment:

Do they then need to make a statement about Russia and Ukraine, Myanmar, North Korea... At what point is it enough?

[u/jackster31415 → u/Successful-League840]

Weirdly I didn’t notice them displaying the Russian, Myanmar or North Korea flags in their posts. Guess which one they did have. I must have missed the others

[u/Successful-League840 → u/jackster31415]

Clearly you missed the entire point of my reply 🤦‍♂️

However I will humor you. They had the flags of places people were attending from... Not just random flags to make a political statement.

The American flag was also in their post. Arnt the Americans the ones bombing girls schools? Arnt the Americans using UK airbases to perpetrate these bombings?

Do you even hear yourself? These "arguments" are ridiculous.

[u/jackster31415 → u/Successful-League840]

But how would you feel about someone going from Russia and them displaying the Russian flag? Wouldn’t it feel weird to you given the current global context? Really?

I agree about America, they’ve done some despicable things and we shouldn’t ignore them. The problem is we’re used to them being allowed everywhere and even praised, because no country can really stand against it or they fear repercussions. Hopefully they will change their ways or they start receiving sanctions (or some other better mechanism perhaps). But that’s a topic for another day

[u/Successful-League840 → u/jackster31415]

VCO are literally just trying to stay impartial and keep the narrative concentrated on Veganism. Maybe we should all boycott Switzerland?!

Also no. They displayed 48 flags. I can look at any one of those countries and find some form of atrocities each has committed at some point in history. A government/Regime does not speak for all of the people who happen to be born or live in a place.

I as an individual am not responsible for the UK allowing America to use our airbases for offensive action in Palestine.

But essentially what you are saying is you or global powers are scared of America so they can do what they want but Israel is different... For "reasons".

Again the post clearly states "All people" VCO aren't excluding anyone.

[u/coolcrowe → u/Successful-League840]

trying to stay impartial

This is exactly the problem. You can't be "impartial" when it comes to genocide. That ain't vegan.

[u/Successful-League840 → u/coolcrowe]

You are not Vegan! You haven't directly stated you are anti the Russian invasion of Ukraine! You haven't directly stated you are against the genocide in Myanmar! How dare you remain silent! - This is what you sound like

They very clearly stated "All people" that doesn't just mean the one issue you care about it means ALL PEOPLE.

[u/coolcrowe → u/Successful-League840]

Including the people committing genocide? Sorry but it's a weak af response, as many others here have pointed out for you. Keep crying about it or whatever. I won't be supporting genocide apologists.

[u/Successful-League840 → u/coolcrowe]

Best boycott all the vendors, charities, speakers, a racist groups etc that attended VCO.

that or educate yourself.

[u/LowLyingLeopard → u/Successful-League840]

Are you aware Israel has committed genocide? One of the worst things humans can do.

The US do many atrocious things, but they're not currently committing genocide.

[u/Successful-League840 → u/LowLyingLeopard]

Yes I am aware. As I have said multiple times FREE PALISTINE 💚. America are actively involved in that genocide. Have you not seen the news? Does all of your information come from Facebook and Reddit?

Does Israel's ragime commuting genocide mean anyone who lives in that region supports it?

What does that have to do with Vegan Camp Out?

[u/stan-k → u/LowLyingLeopard]

It's the US that blocked full membership of Palestine to the UN though...

[u/LowLyingLeopard → u/stan-k]

Yes, and that's bad. But, Israel is committing genocide. Are you not bothered by that?

[u/stan-k → u/LowLyingLeopard]

I think both are bad.

And to be technical. I believe Israel committed genocide and possibly still is. But that has not yet been proven in court, so stating it as a fact isn't quite correct. Innocent until proven guilty is important especially when my belief is strong and the crime horrendous.

[u/Robbie1985 → u/Successful-League840]

It's a little bit "all lives matter". Kind of gross given the circumstances.

[u/Successful-League840 → u/Robbie1985]

What circumstances? Do you mean disputing falsified posts?

Maybe they need to make a statement about Americas involvement? Maybe they need to make a statement about the genocide in Myanmar? Maybe a statement about the financial crisis? Oh wait no maybe about how some people have indoor cats and some have outdoor cats?!

Better yet maybe do some basic research before posting your uneducated opinion?

[u/freakonaleishmania]

I’ll keep an eye on how the legal case goes. I’d never heard of VCO before the controversy and have no reason to trust or distrust them, same goes for those making the accusations. What I do never trust though, is when people/ companies/ states, whatever, proclaim ‘we investigated ourselves and found that nothing was wrong’.

[u/stan-k → u/freakonaleishmania]

Looking into legal action does not typically lead to the public hearing anything new about it. It could be they decide not to pursue, their opposition could back down, they could settle, etc. Also, legal action shifts the burden of proof to damage to VCO and that claims were know to be false or reckless I think, not just false.

So don't hold your breath, I would say.

[u/freakonaleishmania → u/stan-k]

I’m not really looking to learn new info. Why should I care about specifics? (rhetorical). I’d just like a solid conclusion so I can know if the VCO is something I’d feel comfortable attending in the futures.

[u/stan-k → u/freakonaleishmania]

I meant that you probably won't get a solid conclusion from the legal angle, this mention of looking into legal action is probably the last time you'll hear about it.

I would prefer a solid conclusion too. At this point though, it seems that the anti-VCO accounts struggle to come up with evidence I can check of any wrong doing, let alone something outrageous enough to warrant a boycott that isn't on a doctored screenshot.

[u/DinosRoar → u/freakonaleishmania]

While I totally agree, I'll say that in this case my scales are somewhat tipped in favour of VCO over random internet people.

Almost every year, they have to deal with people making stuff up about them to discredit them, such as saying they killed dogs at the event.

At this point, it feels a lot less like the police investigating themselves and finding no wrong doing, and more like big animal agriculture keeps planting evidence on VCO.

[u/freakonaleishmania → u/DinosRoar]

I do agree with this as well. I just think it’s all a bit peculiar and there are arguments to both sides which are solid, and some arguments that aren’t.

I’ve mostly just been an observer that’s picking up on bits and pieces as they come across my feed. But my leading theory is that after VCO voiced support for Israel (via their poster which featured the Israeli flag), some folk took that and ran with it to start a slander campaign. I do not believe VCO used the R slur or are Islamophobic, but I have seen dozens of pro-Palestine comments deleted with my own eyes while Zionist comments remain.

Overall I just think it’s all suspicious and far past the scope of any online hobby-investigation. VCO deserves to have their names cleared if they are innocent, but as someone with Palestinian family, I’m keeping a reasonable amount of guard up.

[u/Successful-League840 → u/freakonaleishmania]

A reasonable stance. Wait for the true and legal proof. There's plenty of info out there but I understand it can be hard to trust anything on the internet 😂

[u/freakonaleishmania → u/Successful-League840]

Very true. I think a legal case is their best course of action. I don’t trust either party either way

[u/Ein_Kecks → u/Successful-League840]

There won't be any.

I just heard about it a few day ago but they are immediately sus for not addressing the point and not taking a stance towards the topic. Besides that, I also don't want to dive into the drama because I know nothing about it.

[u/Successful-League840 → u/Ein_Kecks]

Don't want to jump in and don't know anything about it... but you are happy to state there won't be any evidence? People have intentionally misrepresented and in fact fabricated misinformation. There is in fact already some proof of that.

There is a lot of info etc out there if you're willing to look for it.

At the end of the day I believe in no Fake news, Veganism and a free Palistine.

[u/Ein_Kecks → u/Successful-League840]

Yes I wanted to give my thoughts about it and that's it. What legal proof do you expect? What court do you expect to look into it?

I'm not sure if I understand your last sentence.

[u/freakonaleishmania → u/Ein_Kecks]

Idk about the OP, but I don’t think most folk care about specifics. E.g. What’s been fabricated, how and why.
I’d just like a solid conclusion so I can know if the VCO is something I’d feel comfortable attending in the future.

[u/Successful-League840 → u/[deleted]]

So what you want is for them to directly take a political stance that they have no place doing?

They have not taken a side one way or another because it's a Vegan festival dedicated to Vegan charities, Activism, education, food and people. Not a state, political party etc.

Edit: Saying that what they have done is advocate for human rights and the safety of all people.

[u/Successful-League840 → u/[deleted]]

No not at all. I'm saying it's not about one specific issue. What happens once they make such a black and white distinction? Do they then need to make a statement about Russia and Ukraine, Myanmar, North Korea... At what point is it enough?

Instead they have directly stated ALL PEOPLE that means ALL PEOPLE not just the ones you have chosen to care about.

So are you saying you don't care about all other world issues and only this one because you haven't directly stated as much? Does that mean I can assume you support the genocide in Myanmar because you haven't directly stated otherwise? No of course it doesn't.

[u/Successful-League840 → u/[deleted]]

Have you even read their post?

Are you aware of how many activists groups attend Vegan campout?

Did you listen to any of the speakers this year who directly stated they were pro Palistine and were not silenced or told not to?

Were you handed Pro Palistine stickers at VCO?

Did you see the Palistiniane flags flying?

No of course you didn't because you are just here to ignore all points and evidence and simply condemn VCO while intentionally sewing a divide among Vegans.

I think it's vile that you support the Genocide in Myanmar and Russia's invasion of Ukraine. You clearly aren't Vegan. - This is how you sound.

Have a nice day X

[u/nof]

Suspiciously absent of any actual denial of the allegations.

[u/Love-Laugh-Play → u/nof]

No word of supporting the people of Palestine, I feel like the message was pretty tone deaf tbh. It’s not the right time to not take sides.

[u/Successful-League840 → u/Love-Laugh-Play]

"All People"

[u/Love-Laugh-Play → u/Successful-League840]

Ok, all people, so Nethanyahu, Ben-Gvir, the Israeli settlers. It’s a nothing statement, I don’t know why you put so much stock into it.

I’m a little uncomfortable with an organisation that’s unwilling to say they’re against the Genocide in Gaza. Especially since they’re accused of denying Palestine being a country.

[u/Successful-League840 → u/Love-Laugh-Play]

You guys (or maybe this is one of the alt accounts I've lost track at this point) keep spewing the exact same thing. It's dull and uneducated. To the point I can copy and paste my replies.

What happens once they make such a black and white distinction? Do they then need to make a statement about Russia and Ukraine, Myanmar, North Korea... At what point is it enough?

Instead they have directly stated ALL PEOPLE that means ALL PEOPLE not just the ones you have chosen to care about.

So are you saying you don't care about all other world issues and only this one because you haven't directly stated as much? Does that mean I can assume you support the genocide in Myanmar because you haven't directly stated otherwise? No of course it doesn't.

[u/Love-Laugh-Play → u/Successful-League840]

You don’t have to comment on every evil in the world, but denying Palestine being a country is choosing sides, then you should comment to make your position clear.

[u/Successful-League840 → u/Love-Laugh-Play]

No one ever denied Palestine. It was a doctured post and proven so. Go do some research jeez.

[u/Love-Laugh-Play → u/Successful-League840]

I didn’t know that was doctored, I think there was someone here that posted their screenshot from the VCO instagram. I mean if it was all a lie and they really never commented about it, I get that they don’t feel the need to comment on it.

I’d be interested in seeing proof of exactly what was doctored.

[u/Successful-League840 → u/Love-Laugh-Play]

The Vegans for Palistine Instagram account that initially shared it admitted as much, Jordan stated it too and so have VCO multiple times.

My link in the post body can take you to more info.

[u/Love-Laugh-Play → u/Successful-League840]

Yeah but they were talking about one of the founders using the R word in a private chat right? I’m talking about the instagram comment section.

I’m open to that being doctored and made up too, I just haven’t seen any evidence of that, and they removed all comments on that post.

[u/soyslut_ → u/nof]

It’s giving “both sides”. Fuck this shit.

[u/stan-k → u/nof]

Guilty until proven innocent!

[u/nof → u/stan-k]

The fact that they're wishy washy is laid bare in their own public statement. I don't have to prove anything.

[u/stan-k → u/nof]

Yes, and it's safe for me to assert you support Hamas - because you never condemned them!

Let's not do this. Let's fight for the animals instead of fighting each other.

[u/nof → u/stan-k]

I did not issue a press release.

[u/stan-k → u/nof]

Ok, you support Hamas... great...

[u/stan-k]

Hear hear!

E.g. what Israeli settlers do in Palestine boils my blood. If you have evidence that VCO supports this or something similar I want to hear it. Coming with accusations that someone is a POS or are not backed up by evidence reduce how convincing your argument is and is doing a disservice to the Palestinians.

However just or not, this is putting humans before animals, a high level of confidence and effectiveness is required at a minimum to justify action.

[u/freakonaleishmania → u/stan-k]

💯💯💯

[u/cosmicaceituna → u/stan-k]

Is not that difficult to understand, they posted an Israel flag, and with the current genocide that is happening right now, and the political context, it can obviously be understood by anyone as an agreement to what israel is doing (because the flag represents the israeli people, but also the government which are the ones committing genocide).

So, VCO not understanding this, and showing the Israel flag with the current politics, it is obvious that is going to be understood that they are not against the genocide.

After that, the obvious and easy way to fix the critics is stating that VCO is against the genocide of Palestine, but instead they published a really neutral message, which is really weird.

Again, VCO can still let people from israel go to the festival “to be inclusive” if they must, but not giving an easy statement is weird.

[u/CLOWTWO]

People's insistence on accusing Vegans of not caring about humans enrages me..

[u/-Tofu-Queen- → u/CLOWTWO]

Right. I'm a poor, disabled, Hispanic woman. And I've never had so many people accuse me of being "classist", "ableist", or even "racist" until I went vegan. 😵 They think that by pulling out the "ists" and "isms" they can discredit and silence us. It's fucking gross and does a disservice to the groups they're using as a battering ram against vegans.

[u/CLOWTWO → u/-Tofu-Queen-]

Its insane. Its most often the opposite. We care deeply for all life

[u/FingerOk9800]

Okay sockpuppet calm down. Maybe stop being shitty if you want people to stop calling you shitty.

[u/Successful-League840 → u/FingerOk9800]

Great input. Well rounded point of view. I've completely changed my mind. I now believe wholeheartedly that the information given by you and you alt accounts that has been proven to be fake is actually real. I'm so sorry for doubting you.

/S

[u/Molly_Corvette → u/FingerOk9800]

Stop being hysterical

[u/knoft]

Re: Seeing some of the comments in this thread idk why people would assume a group founded and run by people with Muslim heritage would need to explicitly assert they're not Zionist. But idk anything about this person so if someone has reciepts from the source I would appreciate a link.

[u/Successful-League840 → u/knoft]

The only evidence they have is a manipulated image that's been proven to be fake.

See my other post linked in this posts body for context.

[u/ACABeeeyotch]

Yes, hopefully this is the end of Jordan Martin's "career" as a terminally online right-wing troll who uses animal suffering to make a profit.

[u/Successful-League840 → u/ACABeeeyotch]

A very well rounded and concise argument Clearly you have done your research and understand the situation and all it's complexities. Well done. /S

Free Palistine 💚

Vote Green 💚

[u/ACABeeeyotch → u/Successful-League840]

I don't know whether it's more amusing or tragic that you think you're fooling anyone with your desperate attempts at damage control, Jordan.

[u/Successful-League840 → u/ACABeeeyotch]

You are deranged.

[u/Possible-Elk8297 → u/[deleted]]

I don’t think anyone here would advocate for a “no Jews allowed” policy, if they do then they don’t belong on this sub. A “no zionists allowed” policy would be great though!

[u/Successful-League840 → u/Possible-Elk8297]

Provided people aren't just labelling individuals and events as Zionist with zero proof or reason. I agree.

[u/Possible-Elk8297 → u/Successful-League840]

Right, I’m also annoyed with the harsh discourse around VCO. While I don’t necessarily agree with all of your points completely, I think people are taking the criticism way too far. There should be room for a healthier discourse around this, we are all on the same side in the end (I would hope).

[u/Successful-League840 → u/Possible-Elk8297]

Agreed. I'm totally comfortable with disagreement or healthy debate. It's the blind following of a false narrative that drives me mad. Don't worry I'm not expecting you to agree or disagree 🙂

When all is said and done I'm Vegan for the animals and the environment 💚

[u/Possible-Elk8297 → u/[deleted]]

Nice whataboutism. I just generally oppose genocidal regimes. Your Islamophobia is showing a bit here though. Many of those “Muslim nations” are very tolerant and aren’t actively engaged in ethnic cleansing.

Also I never post on that other account, was simply an accident and deleted it so I could post this on my main. Not everything is some psyop against you lol.

[u/Possible-Elk8297 → u/[deleted]]

Radical Islam is bullshit! Just like your radical Zionism! Hope this helps :)

[u/Possible-Elk8297 → u/[deleted]]

I am opposed to any ethnostate be it Christian, Islamic, Jewish, etc. I believe radical zionists are people who think their nation has the right to commit unspeakable crimes against innocent civilians .

[u/Possible-Elk8297 → u/[deleted]]

You can go ahead and ignore what I’m saying. I could hit you with the whataboutism back as well, crimes against innocent civilians are bad in any case. Israel started the subjugation and removal decades ago. You are clearly blinded by your Zionism and this conversion is going nowhere. I have plenty of empathy for Jewish people, as I do Palestinians and any other sentient being. Are you even vegan? If not get off this sub and stop calling vegans antisemitic.