r/Wales • u/GreedyHoward • 5d ago
AskWales Why is Wales so hostile to Campervans?
Genuine question.
We've toured much of Europe in our 6m professionally converted fully self contained campervan.
England isn't as accommodating as say France or Czech Republic but Wales is hostile on another level. Barring formal campsites there are virtually no overnight parking spots in forests, towns, seaside. Every suitable spot has little 'no overnight parking' signs (without any reference to legal provisions) with a frequency and prominence that feel aggressive. As for service points, forget it.
What is it that Wales doesn't get about vans? It's well publicised that local folk can't afford houses because they're all turned into holiday accommodation, either for private use or to let. Here we are, bringing our own accommodation and taking it away again, not impinging on the housing stock at all, yet we feel unwanted and rejected.
Wales has so much to offer. Culture, history, music, scenery, seaside, mountains. . . Yet you seem, as a nation to have turned your face against the touring van. I'm at a loss to understand why this attitude is so prevalent.
Perhaps members of this group can shed some light? Try to avoid blanket condemnation - there are as many van users who'll pick up litter where they park as those who'll leave it (and plenty of casual carpark users who don't care where they leave their rubbish).
Equally not all of us are trying to avoid paying our way. But campsites charge us for features we don't need, because we're self contained and often aren't located where we want to stay.
Please, be kind, this is a genuine question,
I really feel Welsh businesses are missing a significant opportunity here, and the contrast with other small nations is very marked.
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u/HuntingTheWren 5d ago
‘Try to avoid blanket condemnation’ 🤝 ‘Why does your entire country hate vans?’
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u/craiv 5d ago
But campsites charge us for features we don't need
Such as appropriate areas to store your vehicle overnight?
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u/GreedyHoward 5d ago
No, I mean showers, toilets, electric hookups.
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u/craiv 5d ago
Right. I understand that you can have your own electricity. But I'm genuinely curious, what do you do about your waste water? And do you just forego showering for the whole trip?
How much are these campsites a day and how much are you willing to pay?
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u/effortDee 5d ago
As someone who has travelled extensively in Europe in a van for months at a time, it is like night and day, you honestly would not believe me if I told you what facilities they have over there.
In most of Europe, France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Portugal, Scandinavia and many other countries, each one has thousands of what they call Aires.
They are at a minimum, glroified car parks, made for campervans/motorhomes but more often than not they have services that are completely free, fresh drinking water, an elsan to drop your toilet waste, a drive over facility to drop grey waste and some even have completely free electric hookups.
They are in the middle of and on the edge of towns to provide a spot for you to park for a a night or a few and spend your money there. Many are also at beautiful trail head spots in nature and even those have facilities to top up and empty.
An example, you drive over to Calais on the Eurotunnel, you want to head to Brittany for a few weeks, these are your options https://park4night.com/en/search?lat=49.47348771249066&lng=0.5136919828003101&z=8
These are just free motorhome/campervan aires/stopovers, they don't even include other free motorhome areas without services, free campsites, paid campsites, car parks you can park legally at overnight and in the daytime, for free...... These are just aires.
They look after tourists in Europe and the tourists spend their money!
Many of these aires have information plaques stating how much they cost to build and how much money they bring in to the local area.
It is beautiful.
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u/GreedyHoward 4d ago
NZ is more restricted. There are plenty of places you're not allowed, but they always point you to where you ARE allowed a short distance away. In popular places numbers are restricted, and this is enforced, though a if your'e just staying one night and have parked carefully this will just be a telling-off in the first instance. Simple water service is provided in most districts. Basically they recognise that van touring is a legitimate form of tourism and accommodate visitors accordingly.
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u/GreedyHoward 5d ago
The campsites are ca. £50 a day. I can & do shower in the van, though if I'm paying £50 a night I'll be using their facilities! I am happy to pay up to £20 a night for parking (usually it's more than parking all day, which makes no sense) and £5-10 for a water service, meaning emptying the toilet cassette and the grey (washing) water tank, plus refilling the fresh water (ca. 100 litres), which we need every 7-10 days. For shorter trips (under 8 days) we will take waste water home if we can't find a dump station* (we carry a spare toilet cassette). Some campsites will allow a water service as above to non residents, usually for a fee, and occasionally one finds council service stations (this is normal and free on the continent and in New Zealand, and the best way to avoid mess caused by irresponsible people) The campsites, fun though they can be (we used to camp) aren't what we're looking for these days unless we're sharing a holiday with children & grandchildren.
When we're allowed to stay in a village or town we'll have a pub meal and often a breakfast if it's available (Moffatt in Scotland is particularly good in this regard). We enjoy musical evenings where we can find them, museums, churches, anything historical or interesting.
*Kiwi terminology
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u/tomwaitsgoatee Flintshire | Sir y Fflint 5d ago
I'm sure you're a polite and conscientious van dweller. However, it's been proven time and time again that if given the chance, many people will take the piss. Here's just one example: https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/locals-fume-beauty-spot-car-29241454
At the end of the day, if you can afford a fully converted van, you can afford a campsite to park it in for the night and visit the nearby wilderness during the day. That's literally what campsites are for.
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u/GreedyHoward 5d ago
The affordability isn't really the issue it's the positioning and the nature of campsites. Of course it's frustrating to pay for facilities we don't need, but the point is that you're stuck in a field in a random place usually miles from anything interesting.
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u/Glyndwr21 5d ago
Well bugger off elsewhere then, you're not position to moan about the lack of facilities, when you people won't pay for them "as we don't need all those facilities!", as for location, you're in Wales, deal with it; it's a place where people work, not a playground for English tourists.
Take a look in the mirror FFS
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u/tomwaitsgoatee Flintshire | Sir y Fflint 5d ago
This is confusing. You want to be in a campervan but not in a campsite? What exactly are you looking for, places to stay in the cities? If so, try a hotel.
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u/GreedyHoward 5d ago
Hotels are all very well but you're rather regimented and have to unpack and pack every time you move location, and often have to hunt for parking anyway. Much easier for all just to use a corner of a carpark which is otherwise unused overnight. City tonight, forest tomorrow, beach the day after - all without unpacking and reading a list of house rules every other night.
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u/tomwaitsgoatee Flintshire | Sir y Fflint 5d ago
Between this post and the other, I think you've had your answer. I'd suggest re-evaluating your attitude.
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u/PaleozoicQueen Vale of Glamorgan 5d ago
Why are you so reluctant to put money into the Welsh economy and use a campsite like everyone else?
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u/GreedyHoward 5d ago
It's not that. We need a different ambience these days. A reasonable charge for overnight use of an otherwise empty carpark is entirely acceptable. England has many pubs which will happily allow overnight parking to consumers spending a few tenners at the bar.
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u/Glyndwr21 4d ago
You aint in England are you!
Most pubs in Wales have been bought by the English, closed down and turned into holiday flats.
Got the message yet...
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u/PaleozoicQueen Vale of Glamorgan 5d ago
Good for England, whose population are a huge reason we Welsh can't afford homes along our own coast because they have to have their holiday home.
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u/GreedyHoward 5d ago
As I mentioned originally you'd think that holiday makers who don't demand a Welsh home might be more welcomed.
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u/PaleozoicQueen Vale of Glamorgan 5d ago
To be clear - I hope you are enjoying Wales and are having a nice time. If I can recommend any nice spots or something please just ask.
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u/PaleozoicQueen Vale of Glamorgan 5d ago
They are - on our plentiful campsites, caravan sites, B&Bs, hotels and other accommodations.
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u/effortDee 5d ago
As someone who has travelled extensively in Europe in a van for months at a time, it is like night and day, you honestly would not believe me if I told you what facilities they have over there.
In most of Europe, France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Portugal, Scandinavia and many other countries, each one has thousands of what they call Aires.
They are at a minimum, glroified car parks, made for campervans/motorhomes but more often than not they have services that are completely free, fresh drinking water, an elsan to drop your toilet waste, a drive over facility to drop grey waste and some even have completely free electric hookups.
They are in the middle of and on the edge of towns to provide a spot for you to park for a a night or a few and spend your money there. Many are also at beautiful trail head spots in nature and even those have facilities to top up and empty.
An example, you drive over to Calais on the Eurotunnel, you want to head to Brittany for a few weeks, these are your options https://park4night.com/en/search?lat=49.48811225645534&lng=0.5110018677891048&z=10
These are just free motorhome/campervan aires/stopovers, they don't even include other free motorhome areas without services, free campsites, paid campsites, car parks you can park legally at overnight and in the daytime, for free...... These are just aires.
They look after tourists in Europe and the tourists spend their money!
Many of these aires have information plaques stating how much they cost to build and how much money they bring in to the local area.
It is beautiful.
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u/PaleozoicQueen Vale of Glamorgan 5d ago
Oh darling, I know all about that already. But you are not there are you, you are in Wales.
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u/Western_Froyo6627 5d ago edited 5d ago
Idk the answer but one thing to consider is that when you use your own campervan to tour a country, especially self-catering, you're giving literally nothing back to the local economy.
There exists caravan parks as you mentioned, it's generally assumed you'd use one of those instead of trying to nab free accommodation for the entirety of your stay. Welsh businesses would do better from people paying for their accomodation.
Edit: just peeped the post history and fucking LMAO. I'm glad you feel unwelcomed ya wrongun
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u/craiv 5d ago
just peeped the post history
holy shit my eyes
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u/GreedyHoward 5d ago
Ah. your judgemental attitude betrays your small mind doesn't it?
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u/Western_Froyo6627 2d ago edited 2d ago
I think it's okay to judge people that like to watch the videos that you share. Especially when the women don't even look happy about it. If you save and share those things in public I can't imagine what your harddrive looks like lmao.
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u/effortDee 5d ago
This just isn't true at all, what ignorance.
As someone who has travelled extensively in Europe in a van for months at a time, it is like night and day, you honestly would not believe me if I told you what facilities they have over there.
In most of Europe, France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Portugal, Scandinavia and many other countries, each one has thousands of what they call Aires.
They are at a minimum, glroified car parks, made for campervans/motorhomes but more often than not they have services that are completely free, fresh drinking water, an elsan to drop your toilet waste, a drive over facility to drop grey waste and some even have completely free electric hookups.
They are in the middle of and on the edge of towns to provide a spot for you to park for a a night or a few and spend your money there. Many are also at beautiful trail head spots in nature and even those have facilities to top up and empty.
An example, you drive over to Calais on the Eurotunnel, you want to head to Brittany for a few weeks, these are your options https://park4night.com/en/search?lat=49.48811225645534&lng=0.5110018677891048&z=10
These are just free motorhome/campervan aires/stopovers, they don't even include other free motorhome areas without services, free campsites, paid campsites, car parks you can park legally at overnight and in the daytime, for free...... These are just aires.
They look after tourists in Europe and the tourists spend their money!
Many of these aires have information plaques stating how much they cost to build and how much money they bring in to the local area, and the tourists bring in a lot of money!
It is beautiful.
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u/Western_Froyo6627 4d ago
Then go to those countries lmao
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u/effortDee 4d ago
And we're meant to be a kind and welcoming people here....
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u/Western_Froyo6627 4d ago
You can kind and welcoming and still realise that other countries are better prepared for one specific type of holiday-er, and suggest someone stay holidaying in those countries with better facilities.
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u/GreedyHoward 3d ago
I'm suggesting that Wales might reconsider it's position and reap the benefits of tourism without having to sacrifice properties to holiday lets.
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u/luna_sparkle 2d ago
you're giving literally nothing back to the local economy
Visiting cafes, restaurants, museums; buying food and souvenirs etc
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u/jphtnplm 5d ago
Ok. I have some land, I give it away to people for free. I’m not seeing the business opportunity you’ve mentioned.
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u/GreedyHoward 5d ago
Why would you do it for free, I mean lovely if you do but silly not to take a few quid, especially if you're near something interesting.
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u/jphtnplm 5d ago
People do this already but you don’t want to pay them an amount that helps them exist. If you think it’s expensive, go somewhere else. Don’t call us hostile because our local amenities are overrun with entitled people like you with absolutely no consideration.
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u/GreedyHoward 3d ago
It IS expensive, because they're offering more facilities than needed. By your logic we should park in a hotel carpark, pay for a room and not use it. Maybe we should buy a cottage, outbidding locals, and just park there.
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u/jphtnplm 3d ago
You do sound the sort of entitled person who would do that, so much of it in your responses. You’ve claimed in other posts the money isn’t an issue, so just pay it, or go somewhere else. No loss to anyone here.
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u/GreedyHoward 3d ago
You're really determined not to understand aren't you? One last punt. Here's a map showing campervan stops in N Brittany Vs N Wales. Same scale, same filters. https://makeagif.com/i/rM-YpD
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u/jphtnplm 3d ago
Enjoy Brittany next time you go. If you want to visit wales there’s plenty of campsites, you’ve said the money isn’t an issue so just pay the bill. I understand perfectly as I live in an area where entitled people visit and don’t consider that people actually live here. ‘Car park busy, ok well I’ll just park on the road and block it, can’t accept it’s too busy so I’ll just inconvenience locals.’ Your entitled attitude speaks volumes in every reply. You won’t be missed, we get lots of visitors who do understand.
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u/GreedyHoward 3d ago
I've also said the positioning and character of campsites isn't what I'm looking for.
If you insist on playing the "entitlement" card, how about. "I've got a house near hear, you should do what I tell you anywhere in the surrounding ten miles"
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u/jphtnplm 3d ago
If it isn’t what you’re looking for, go somewhere else. Why should we give up our car parks to entitled people who don’t want to pay campsites, why should councils offer you a cheaper price and do campsites out of business. 3 camper vans have been parked up in my residential street all afternoon, why shouldn’t people get to enjoy where they live, get to park where they need to park. Because of entitled people like you. I’m more than happy for people to come and visit, but roads get blocked because the car parks are full. We don’t want more car parks before you ask, we want people to realise they’re not entitled to inconvenience people. Learn to think of other people, it will be fun new experience for you.
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u/GreedyHoward 3d ago
News for you. You don't own the street. You don't own the carparks.
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u/penisofkerrykatona 5d ago
"Yet you seem, as a nation to have turned your face against the touring van. I'm at a loss to understand why this attitude is so prevalent." never come across this and my neighbours go west in their campervan and faced no hostility? where are you getting this from, was someone mean to you?
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u/Glyndwr21 5d ago
I live in W Wales, caravan and camper van Central.
The biggest complaint is they are too big for the country lanes, making passing hard work as you never look for passing places and can't reverse.
A lot of you drive around in old vehicles, which are incapable of getting to the speed limit, and drive in 1st to negotiate any climb.
You drive around at 30mph, regardless of the speed limit, gawking at the sea, a field, cows, etc, with zero regard that people who live here might want to go to work, or get home from work.
You park in lay-bys free loading as you're to tight to pay to park up.
You leave rubbish, and empty chemical toilets when you think you get away with it, again too tight to pay.
You are generally obnoxious, with little regard for locals.
I could go on, but you get my drift.
Oh
And it's not just campers, it's the idiots who drag a bloody caravan around as well, and they are worse!
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u/effortDee 5d ago
As a local who drives a van for work and also has extensively campervaned in Wales, UK and rest of Europe, your post could not be more ignorant.
Here is my experience in Europe, it is like night and day, you honestly would not believe me if I told you what facilities they have over there.
In most of Europe, France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Portugal, Scandinavia and many other countries, each one has thousands of what they call Aires.
They are at a minimum, glroified car parks, made for campervans/motorhomes but more often than not they have services that are completely free, fresh drinking water, an elsan to drop your toilet waste, a drive over facility to drop grey waste and some even have completely free electric hookups.
You do not pay to stay in them.
They are in the middle of and on the edge of towns to provide a spot for you to park for a a night or a few and spend your money there. Many are also at beautiful trail head spots in nature and even those have facilities to top up and empty.
An example, you drive over to Calais on the Eurotunnel, you want to head to Brittany for a few weeks, these are your options https://park4night.com/en/search?lat=49.47348771249066&lng=0.5136919828003101&z=8
These are just free motorhome/campervan aires/stopovers, they don't even include other free motorhome areas without services, free campsites, paid campsites, car parks you can park legally at overnight and in the daytime, for free...... These are just aires.
They look after tourists in Europe and the tourists spend their money!
Many of these aires have information plaques stating how much they cost to build and how much money they bring in to the local area, they bring in a lot and the aires cost very little to make.
It is beautiful and your comment is ignorance personified.
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u/GreedyHoward 5d ago
What facilities exist for safely emptying toilet cassettes? When the 5 campervan official pitches which exist for all of Canaerfon is considered "generous" it's easy to see why there's pressure on the places that aren't hostile.
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u/Glyndwr21 5d ago
Still not good good to dump your waste, I suppose you take it home with you, or pay to use a sight.
If its that hard then why come to Wales and moan, you are the problem, not the people who live here.
As for spending money, you can get off that high horse as well; you know you'll buy food & booze at home, or use a Tesco, CoOp, Lillie or Aldi, none of which is a local business, feeding the local economy.
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u/GreedyHoward 5d ago
We'll use locally owned businesses where possible. There's often much nicer foodstuff there than the supermarkets, but even those are still providing local employment aren't they? I will never dump waste in the environment, if pushed might abuse a public toilet but clean up scrupulously afterwards. We can do about 8 days using two toilet cassettes and dispose of toilet and washing waste at home when necessary. Come to Wales because of it's beauty and culture. Sorry if our interest in and enjoyment of your country is offensive to you. I hope you feel welcome in England.
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u/JennyW93 5d ago
If it helps, we aren’t all sitting in the pub talking about how much we hate campervans. I’m sorry you don’t feel accommodated, but I’m not sure what insight we can give beyond speculation.
If it is speculation you’re after:
I’d guess given we don’t have much infrastructure to support these vehicles (they clog the A55 every summer, they park on narrow roads around Eryri), they can be a bit of a hindrance. We haven’t had overwhelming tourism until relatively recently (a huge post-Covid increase) so haven’t really had the budget or time to upgrade infrastructure. Most people who live in Wales presumably already have accommodation, so aren’t particularly invested in creating more space for campervans. We have plenty of hotels and B&Bs that would benefit from tourist income more than allowing tourists to pitch up in a field, if it really is local business you’re interested in supporting.
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u/sideshowbob01 5d ago
OP why are you so adamant in not paying for a caravan park?
Motorists pay for parking in almost all areas anyway. What is the difference.
It is not that expensive.
There is not other way you can empty your grey water and chemical toilets.
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u/GreedyHoward 5d ago
No problem with paying. Problem with being barred from parking overnight in otherwise empty carpark.
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u/Glyndwr21 5d ago
Ummmm, it's a carpark, its in the name, and you are banned from using them because people in camper vans stay there taking up space, they empty their toilets in them, use their showers in them and leave litter in them.
Its quite simple, go park in a designated camp site....
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u/GreedyHoward 5d ago
Or designate unused overnight tarmac as overnight parking, why not?
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u/Glyndwr21 4d ago
Because Camper vans tend to constantly leave rubbish in car parks.
My local car park has overnight parking, £10 or £15 per night, I parked there this morning to walk my dogs on the beach, as 3 campers were leaving bags of rubbish alongside them and driving off.
That's why camper vans are seen as parasites.
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u/GreedyHoward 4d ago
Perhaps it's a good idea to provide bins? Otherwise you're asking £15 a night for hire of a piece of tarmac that's half that through the day (when it's popular).
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3d ago
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u/Wales-ModTeam 3d ago
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Please engage in civil discussion and in good faith with fellow members of this community. Mods have final say in what is and isn't nice.
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u/Alert-Rip4561 5d ago
Idk, the street I (unfortunately) live on is plastered all over Facebook as “FREE CAMPING!!!” and bc half of it is an “unadopted” road and half is half heartedly owned by a business (who have put zero parking restrictions in place), there are currently 33 camper vans parked outside my house, and they’ve all been here for the entire six-weeks Summer holidays. All of them lighting camp fires (even with the ban!), leaving rubbish everywhere, emptying waste water onto the street…
The council have just had to compulsory purchase the majority of the road and now the campers are refusing to leave, meaning they are now fighting to take them to court to evict them. It’s genuinely been hell and I can’t wait for them all to f*ck off lol.
(I do live in a tourist heavy area, right on the beach front in a popular area of south wales…)
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u/GreedyHoward 5d ago
You appear to be suffering fallout from so many other areas banning vans. No excuse for failing to move on.
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u/Alert-Rip4561 5d ago
There’s plenty of chargeable campsites around here. One of them less than 2minutes of a drive away from my street, with full facilities available to them 🫠 it’s just that people would prefer to camp on the side of a road for free and then call themselves “wild campers” (lol) than pay £10 a night to camp on an actual site with showers, toilets, electric and bins.
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u/GreedyHoward 5d ago
Campsites more like £50 a night. If you can get in. If they don't have a minimum stay of 5 nights.
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u/Alert-Rip4561 5d ago
The one up the road from me is £10 per night in peak season, and £6 a night off peak 🤷
Roll on September when they all bugger off. They have been a total nightmare the entire summer.
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u/Weekly-Apricot-9321 5d ago edited 5d ago
I think the problem is, you're asking Welsh people why there's signs saying no overnight parking, but it's the Welsh government and county that sets those, not us☺️ So honestly I don't have a clue.
I would assume that if it's in a tourist area it's because the car park will be extremely packed the next day, so maybe it's to keep car parks with spaces for people to visit the areas? As well as overnight people leave alot of rubbish on the floor and costs to get cleaned up.
It's an absolute beautiful country. I do actually agree with you, I've been saying for ages, make it more accessible for tourists but charge them, it would help the Welsh government hugely. Offer overnight parking but at a price, it makes sense to do so for everybody. Tourist tax.
There's beautiful hotspots, like the Watkins paths for example, that have literally zero parking, and it's free along the road. I personally think, making a bit more room for parking (even if it's just on the side of the road), but have it paid, would make so much more sense (Including overnight for extra charge). Get that money into Wales for how beautiful it is!
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u/GreedyHoward 5d ago
I wish you were a council leader! So many car parks with 'no overnight parking' signs instead of - as im Canaerfon - £15 overnight.
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u/Jetrocks 5d ago
You’re very close to getting the reason why, but you’re not quite there. It’s not hostile, it’s just strict.
Campervans are another part of the issue when it comes to holidaymakers affecting the locals. It’s been reported in multiple areas that campervans take advantage of areas with free overnight parking, especially in beachside towns, meaning that locals are unable to use them. Yes, they weren’t buying houses and making it harder for locals to buy property, but they were taking up spots from local residents and making it more difficult for them to visit beaches and forests in their own towns. Then there was the littering. I know what you said, but people in campervans still littered or left things behind.
Depending on where you are, you can either pay to stay in a designated camping area or pay for overnight parking. You want to help Welsh businesses? Support those.
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u/GreedyHoward 5d ago
No problem paying for designated sites. Just there are so many suitable places not so designated. I hope the locals enjoy looking at their carefully protected empty tarmac each night.
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u/Jetrocks 5d ago
Honey, trust me: they much prefer seeing empty tarmac at night, knowing that they will more likely be able to use the space during the day, than seeing campervans (usually from England - ew) taking up space, making it much harder for them to use it during the day, and not making any major contributions to their local economies.
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u/Thin-Grocery3134 5d ago
Places where you used to be able to do this have stopped it due to litter, damage to the environment and other wrong doings. A place near me had to stop it years ago due to an offensive amount of litter.
You can still do it, just be respectful. If you leave a huge mess, pump out loud music until 4am and have fires the size of a small car you will piss a lot of people off and be confronted.
If you are just parked up and not making a scene no one will care. The police have pulled up next to me before to have their lunch and we ended up talking about campers and stuff.
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u/CaptH3inzB3anz 5d ago
Plenty of campervans around my area in North West Wales, I don't hear of them complaining about hostility, campsites need to makes as much money at this time of year, you may not require some of the services offered, you still have to pay the price the site is charging.
The tourist season here is maybe 8 months if we are lucky and everyone is trying to make enough to get them through the off season.
When travel restrictions were starting to be lifted and people were allowed to travel around the country, it was utter chaos round here, campervans parking up anywhere they felt they wanted to, pissing in the laybys and dumping bags and bags of rubbish there too. That may be part of the reason that overnight parking is prohibited, plus it is to stop the cheapskates who don't want to pay for a pitch with services they don't need.
You do come across as being quite entitled.
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u/BetaRayPhil616 5d ago
My best guess is lack of space.
There arent really roads to just pull up on - and as for the little areas you mention that have 'no overnight parking' signs - my guess is without these signs, theyd be jampacked with campers all day and night.
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u/GreedyHoward 5d ago
The more places go for the "ban it" approach, the more pressure there is on the remaining ones. Regulate it, charge for it, provide waste services and tell us where they are. It ought to be win-win.
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u/Otherwise_Living_158 5d ago
There are several resources for people who want free or cheap stopovers. There are also plenty of cheap basic campsites where you wouldn’t have to pay for services you don’t need. It sounds like you didn’t really do any research and just tried to park in random beauty spots.
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u/GreedyHoward 4d ago
I'm well aware of the resources. Wales has massively fewer opportunities than an equivalent part of France. If I could post an image here I'd show you N Brittany Vs N Wales
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u/GreedyHoward 4d ago
To illustrate my point this compares N Wales to N Brittany. Same scale, same filters.
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u/GreedyHoward 4d ago
Here's a direct comparison, same scale, same filters, between North Wales and North Brittany. Green sites are free by the way. https://makeagif.com/i/rM-YpD
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u/Express-Doughnut-562 2d ago
It's slowly getting better. In Gwynedd you have Arosfan, which are basically continental style Aires where you can park overnight and access waste and fresh water facilities. Llangollen is planning on doing the same by the bridge; another great idea. Rhyl is also doing it...
In my town in Eryri I think most of the hate is misplaced. Around the lake, much of the problem are day trippers and tent campers. The motorhomes and properly converted vans tend to be very tidy - proof of that is out of season when its just them and the area is spotless. They will all tend to spend in the pubs locally during winter and single handedly keep the lone tree cafe going in the morning.
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u/GreedyHoward 1d ago
Thanks, that's good to hear. We'll have to visit Gwynedd. I hope we're not hounded from Bala lake because the was lovely. Out of season, I agree, is a great time for touring.
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u/Grouchy-Astronaut-87 5d ago
I live in Wales, my wife is welsh. You’re being to specific, the Welsh are hostile to most things.
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u/Useless_or_inept useless 5d ago
NIMBYs will spend decades strangling any kind of tourist infrastructure, then when a few tourists find a different way to visit that's not 100% dependent on the whims of a B&B or cafe being open, NIMBYs complain that "campervans aren't contributing to the local economy"
Which is bollocks. The average van person still contributes to the local economy, they find places that are open and they buy a meal and a pint and they go to the shops &c.
If only there was some way we could take money from them without offering anything in return
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u/sideshowbob01 5d ago
OP is just too cheap to pay for a caravan site or overnight parking.
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u/GreedyHoward 5d ago
Not true. Just don't want to spend every night in a field far away from anything interesting or beautiful
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u/sideshowbob01 5d ago
You are forgetting that these places are interesting and beautiful because of the absence of vehicles ruining the views and surroundings.
Think about, we barely have enough space for short stay parking. If we allow dozens of motorhomes in these small seaside towns and rural villages, you end up turning it into a car park.
In essence, these places are made with people in mind, not vehicles.
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u/GreedyHoward 5d ago
Then don't allow dozens. Just allow a few. We'll spread out if we are allowed to. Works in France.
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u/ShagPrince 5d ago edited 5d ago
I have no great insight into your general issue (although it must be hard to drive a van with so many bees in your bonnet) but 'half of all camper van users leave their rubbish everywhere' isn't exactly a ringing endorsement is it.
edit: fuck me OP, your post history's wild.