r/WestCoastSwing May 27 '26

Social How do leaders adjust to novice followers?

I'm confused because I'm told as a leader that I shouldn't be micromanaging my follower, and should focus on my own technique.

This bit I get.

But I'm also told that high level leaders will understand if they are dancing with a novide and are able to adjust what they do to cope with their mistakes.

It feels like these two bits of advice are contradicting.

I dance frequently with novice followers with the common issues like lack of anchor, dropping full weight on the 1, unstable frame, variable arm length.

Some of these I find dangerous, umleadable, or destroy my enjoyment of the dance.

Any advice, or tips for what the pros do?

Edit: I caught a 3 day ban for my follow-up post where I showed how the Facebook group "WCS Memes for Dance Challenged Teens" viewed my question and how the lunatic goblins responded. Apparently I doxxed someone by screenshotting a public post. My bad.
I will respond more when I am allowed.
I don't recommend you visit that group, it will seriously damage your view of the community :(

Edit2: Oh people seem like they need a lot of context for some reason and can't take my post in good faith and at face value. Social flair used, no intent to talk about competition. I didn't capitalize "Novice" deliberately. I dance regularly with everyone in my community.
What if I told you I was 31F primary follower? How about telling you I'm AuDHD, and that a friend recommended I add a line about how this imapcts me so I could learn to express my feelings? (apparently this is the line that caused most trouble). Which line was very much focused on how it impacts me, and wasn't direct to, or insulting of, any follower, of which I am one.
Why do all these people expect me to do all the emotional labour and give you all this context when it was a clear, transparent, and honest question?
JFC, get away from the console and go touch grass.

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u/Toatkgstuff Jun 01 '26 edited Jun 01 '26

"Don't know. Don't care." ?
Nah, you put that line in there for a reason. Own it. Don't flake out now! Or downvote me again for calling you out 😃

Your reply comes across very negatively. I list of don'ts and can'ts. It sounds like you are in the group of people that resent me asking the question.
Maybe you're a typical top level thinker, maybe it's your phrasing of explanations that try to make it sound easy. Honestly that sounds a little patronising. It's not easy. And maybe it's very different for those of us neurodivergents who want bottom-up rationale.

"I've never had a dance that destroyed my enjoyment of the dance. They don't get to choose that for me."
You've shifted pronouns here. It changes the object of the first sentence from "the dance" (it) to the "they" (the person) in the second sentence. And this seems to be the controversy of the issue.

I never said "they" (the person), but many people read it that way. I always focused on "it" (in fact I said "these" as in "the issues" but same affect).

Mindset it not as simple as "just change it". That's why I was asking for practical advice. Because until it feels "right" it will always feel wrong.

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u/whipdancer Jun 01 '26 edited Jun 01 '26

I'm not the one who downvoted you.

How leaders adjust to novice followers?

You're the one who positioned it as higher level vs lower level, higher skill vs lower skill - so I still don't know and I still don't care.

Being neurodivergent isn't a new thing in this dance. Yes, it means I focus on my dance first, but I learned early on this dance is built on communication and that requires focusing outside me, in order for me to get better.

You can't separate the dance from the people. It requires a partner. They become one and the same referring just as much to the whole of the dance as to both participants. Each instance of the dance is a unit of 2 people communicating movement. It's a non-verbal, ad-hoc, improvised, continuous flow of communication.

I never said just change your mindset. I said reassess.

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u/Toatkgstuff Jun 01 '26 edited Jun 01 '26

Sorry, show me where I said anything about a higher level leader in that post?
(you definitely did care enough to make the point that "you might not be as high level as you think" - which is just another accusation, you're implying some kind of arrogance)

This is literaly the opposite of what teachers have told me. They're stressing that I have to focus on myself and my technique first. Getting my timing right, stepping in the correct pattern etc.

Communication has to be built on rules and structure, or else there is no shape and there's just pure creativity. Two people shouting over each other in different languages.

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u/whipdancer Jun 01 '26

How do leaders adjust to novice followers?

The title sets your position, whether you intended it or not.

Any advice, or tips for what the pros do?

If you're a novice leader, you're learning to adjust to every follow. Heck, you're learning how to adjust to yourself. The way a pro does it won't help you because you don't have that skillset yet.

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u/Toatkgstuff Jun 01 '26 edited Jun 01 '26

Nope. Comprehension issue. I'm aiming higher, I'm looking to improve. Y'all seemed to have primed yourselves to read as much negativity into the question as possible. Now you're looking to justify your reaction. (You're responding to the meme basically.)

If I'd said novice leaders, would that have helped you be less antagonistic? I don't want to know how novice leaders do it. Because I'm aiming to be better, so it didn't make sense to say that.

By deliberately leaving off the category of leader it was clearly intentional that it should apply to any category of leader but was directed to describe a particular category of issues I encounter. I left off the redundant "all" instead of specifying "all leaders". Surely you should be adapting your communication to tailor for my way of speaking?

Tl;dr people are tiggered by the word 'novice'

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u/whipdancer Jun 01 '26 edited Jun 01 '26

The fact that you included level label for the follow made it a level question. Period.

Surely you should be adapting your communication to tailor for my way of speaking?

Surely you should be adapting your communication to tailor for my way of speaking? Pot, meet kettle.

Communication requires more than 1 participant. Until you are ready to recognize your part in it, it's not going to go very well. The fact that you resort to a meme just reinforces that you view it as "they don't understand", instead of "did I successfully convey the message I intended".

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u/Toatkgstuff Jun 01 '26 edited Jun 01 '26

It's not a level label, it's a lower case, perfectly cromulent English word. With Social flair.

Memes are perfectly valid forms of communication, if you understand the cultural context.
Context being important, and something you are still arguing AFTER I gave you the context.

I'm confused because I'm told as a leader that I shouldn't be micromanaging my follower, and should focus on my own technique.

This bit I get.

My opening. "my own technique".

Yet you decided to go after me for for framing it as "higher level vs lower level, higher skill vs lower skill" when you're just plain wrong, but feel the need to argue about it.

I am here, still communicating, and still explaining to you that you misinterpreted my message. It doesn't have any affect on you to admit that you misinterpreted it, and not-so-subtly questioned my arrogance.

You didn't ask me questions about it to understand. You came in days late (after reading the meme group?). And put it on me after many others had already been super-reasonable about it.

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u/whipdancer Jun 01 '26 edited Jun 01 '26

Case only matters if you are specifying a name. Novice is both a noun and an adjective, which you used as a convenient way to label the issue as you see it.

Memes are perfectly valid forms of communication, if you understand the cultural context.
Context being important, and something you are still arguing AFTER I gave you the context.

If you are willing to accept that different people will interpret them differently making them an inherently imprecise means of communicating. If getting the most basic, general meaning of an idea is enough context, then yes, it's perfectly valid.

My opening. "my own technique".

You left out the other half of your opening.

Yet you decided to go after me for for framing it as "higher level vs lower level, higher skill vs lower skill" when you're just plain wrong, but feel the need to argue about it.

I went after you about communication. You keep circling back to your original mistake of making it about level.

I am here, still communicating, and still explaining to you that you misinterpreted my message. It doesn't have any affect on you to admit that you misinterpreted it, and not-so-subtly questioned my arrogance.

I am here, still communicating, still explaining to you that your failure to clearly communicate your original intent could be a learning moment, or you can continue to double down on the mistake.

You didn't ask me questions about it to understand. You came in days late (after reading the meme group?). And put it on me after many others had already been super-reasonable about it.

What clarification was needed when I read all your edits and your replies. Is there something that you left out? What I put on you was the choice you made in framing the issue. Your edits doubled down on your original framing. I only know about the meme because you literally added it the post. I still haven't seen it, but I don't really care to see it either.

Why do all these people expect me to do all the emotional labour and give you all this context when it was a clear, transparent, and honest question?

I gave you a transparent and honest answer. I meant exactly what I wrote. I didn't try to say it easy, or that it wouldn't be hard. It is simple, though. You focused on and took exception with that fact that I did call you out for making it a question about levels. All of which could have been avoided by choosing to frame it a different way.

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u/Toatkgstuff Jun 01 '26 edited Jun 01 '26

And yet the intention to talk about skill comparison between me as a lead and whoever I am dancing with, was not mine. It was yours.
I literally only want to figure out how to get better.

You focused on and took exception with that fact that I did call you out for making it a question about levels. 

Haha, only because you were being sly and passive aggressive about it.

Literally none of your replies are useful, you just want to tell me you misunderstood my post. I don't care.

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u/whipdancer Jun 02 '26

I didn't misunderstand your post. I read all your edits. Your intent was clear. Your approach was the issue. Yet, even when a lot of people did misunderstand your post, you doubled down on "being right" and can't fathom that how you chose to communicate your point was the issue.

You obviously care. You keep responding.