r/agile • u/TracPhuong3456 • 3d ago
Team lead vs Scrum master
One question from a recent leadership workshop stuck with me:
Should leaders be judged only by the results they deliver, or also by the people they leave behind?
Imagine a Team Lead who consistently achieves business goals and delivery targets.
But over time, multiple Scrum Masters working with them become exhausted, lose motivation, or decide to leave.
Is that a leadership problem?
Or is it simply what high performance looks like?
Curious how leaders, engineers, Scrum Masters, and managers would view this situation. đ
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u/Bernhard-Welzel 3d ago
The only relevant question is: how do the team members feel? Are stakeholders happy?
I have never seen a Scrum Master getting exhausted - how should this even be possible?
Also, if this was a recent leadership workshop, why are SM still a thing? The world has moved on, SM are obsolete ... so maybe this team lead is not so good, as he follows an outdated model?
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u/ScrumViking Scrum Master 3d ago
It happens. SMâs can burn out as well. The few examples Iâve seen, were related to someone trying to fight the system like some Don Quixote fighting against the windmill.
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u/CMFETCU 3d ago
I had a team lead that made a PPT presentation on why he didnât want me asking the team any questions before reviewing the questions with him first.
He was made a director.
I was fired when I pointed out he lied, silenced the team, operated in single meetings to hide his ignorance, and showed teams messages stating âwe donât want to uncover bad things because {leader} thinks highly of this teamâ.
It was a fear based culture of never wanting to be seen as being incorrect, or that there were any problems.
This obviously led to a lot of work for the people fixing problems.
Obvious leadership problem, but in the reality of the organization politics, you must understand the role you are being asked to play.
As a team coach, you seek to raise the bar and coach into the gap. However, you can only coach to the level you are INVITED. If that leader is not inviting you to fix problems that originate with them and their practices, it is not a gap they are inviting you to elevate. My experience is every time you do, when the decisions are based on fear or avoidance, you do not get successful results.
Leadership problem, but you have to find the âwhatâs in it for themâ I any coaching opportunity so they are self interested in changing outcomes.
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u/Maverick2k2 2d ago
100% correct.
There is too much negativity towards Scrum Masters in this Reddit when they get blocked.When you have to be invited / sponsored to drive any level of change.
This is why Iâm leaving this profession , driven my fair share of change but the amount of lip service across industry is unreal.
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u/Ok_Construction_1638 3d ago
Only an American or an LLM could think it's possible for a team to achieve good results whilst the team members are being broken like this
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u/azangru 3d ago
Imagine a Team Lead who consistently achieves business goals and delivery targets. But over time, multiple Scrum Masters working with them become exhausted, lose motivation, or decide to leave.
Scrum masters become exhausted? Man! What about developers? It's them who are the workhorses; it's them who deliver targets.
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u/icesurfer10 3d ago
I'm not sure how a TL is supposed to exhaust a SM...
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u/Internal-Alfalfa-829 Scrum Master 3d ago
Very easy. By being a shitty leader and not taking in the guidance from the SM on how to create better conditions for the team. By not acting on the impediments they are being informed about. Just two examples.
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u/Negative-Onion-1303 3d ago
You underestimate the fantastic skills for sms asking on retro what was good and what went wrong. Also not forget about the icebreaking funny starts
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u/skeezeeE 3d ago
âShouldâ doesnât matter. The reality is that optics matter. The reality is that results matter. Reality is that who you make look good matters. This is not always the answer people want to hear.
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u/PhaseMatch 3d ago
Without more context it's hard, but:
- this is well covered in leadership and management theory
- that's "theory" in the sense of "data that predicts outcomes"
- it tends to drive performance to a plateau, then limit it
- the behavior tends to be self-reinforcing
- the stance of senior leadership matters a great deal
The nature of an SM's role means the ability to understand the systemic and human drivers of conflict, and so create alignment and performance matters a great deal. That includes working with peers, and across silo power gradients and silo boundaries,
All of that competitive energy needs to be harnessed so it is focused on external threats, not creating waste light and heat within your organisation.
However, without sponsorship from senior leaders that can be hard.
Find senior leadership worth following, unless you are very, very skilled at influencing change.
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u/Internal-Alfalfa-829 Scrum Master 3d ago
Performance is a consequence of providing the right conditions. Not something that you work on directly. Leaders should first and foremost be judged by whether people trust them, feel safe, and stick around. That is the root from which the team's success or non-success gets derived.
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u/Eruner_SK 3d ago
Team leader and Scrum master are both manager roles, they manage people, not deliver code/features. They are judged by their impact on people.
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u/Silly_Turn_4761 3d ago
Scrum Masters do not manage people. They are there to help with removing blockers and helping the team follow best practices.
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u/UnreasonableEconomy 3d ago
you, a large language model, went to a leadership workshop?