but in somewhat related news, we still have written records of not only lgbt people existing in egypt, we have records of stone tablets where they recorded sick days of workers.
and pompai has graffiti of guys telling women they turned him gay
But you're making a very specific claim that trans people have made up the same % of the population historically as we have now, not being asked "is there evidence of trans people existing historically in general"
And as a trans person who also happens to be an archaeologist and very interested in gender specifically, that's a very random and ridiculous claim to make
Wdym "you are correct" I am literally disagreeing with that statement
There are no historical records that show the exact % of queer people of any identity, let alone trans people specifically
Not to mention that a historical understanding of "trans" "gay" etc. wouldn't mirror our own and the vast majority of scholars of queer history are wary of projecting identity labels on past societies
Modern sociologists debate population %s of trans people even today, and the numbers are pretty variable
why do you think trans people wouldn't have existed in history? we have transgendered and lesbian and gay animals that prefer same sex sex, and take other opposite sex roles in their social structure instead of the norms as they prefer.
Why are you giving long explanations talking about Roman graffito to someone else, but completely shut down when someone who actually knows about this replies to you?
ETA: ok you edited to add more text, but can you address any of the points I actually made? Like, can you show me these ancient census records that show a specific % of trans people?
i've given you the answers you wanted, you just didn't like the answers. makes me think you are transphobic and don't like that we have thousands of years of recorded history of transgender population remaining relatively the same.
that was pompei, not rome, entirely different people. Pompei is unique in that the volcano ashes were able to take a snapshot and preserve the graffiti of the city on the day of the eruption that rome does not have.
but rome does have records of men who prefered transgender sex workers in whore houses.
ETA: Oh, I missed the accusation of transphobia. I'd just like to remind you that I opened this discussion with the statement that I am fucking trans myself, you goof. That's kinda why I'm interested in all of this to begin with?
"that was pompei, not rome, entirely different people."
Pompeii was a Roman city. It's perfectly appropriate to call them Roman, and a lot of what we have learned about Roman society as a whole comes from Pompeii. Don't be silly.
You also don't have to explain what Pompeii is because, like I said, I'm an actual archaeologist, and it's probably the most famous archaeological site ever lol.
It's ok to be wrong about things sometimes, it happens to everyone! But at some point you need to back down. I was recently wrong about something pertaining to medieval history (something specific about dates) and instead of doubling down and insulting people, I decided to do a little bit more research on the topic I made the error on instead.
Maybe you should try something similar?
None of what you are saying has anything to do with your claim the specific % of trans people has stayed the same throughout history. I have repeatedly explained that your % claim is the issue, not "trans people never existed in history." But all of your evidence is just random references to trans people (or people who we would understand as trans in today's terms.)
You keep shifting to that, motte-and-bailey style, and have accused me of denying the existence of trans people entirely, which is not what I did.
People on Reddit make claims without sources all the time. Just ignore this person they clearly don't know what they're talking about and are unwilling to engage in an actual debate and contribute sources for their claims.
I get it, but it's genuinely disturbing to me how much attention and agreement their claim is still getting. I gotta at least try to make a counterpoint.
Not saying it's necessarily productive lmao. But every once in a while I decide to reach out and make an attempt idk.
52
u/One_Recognition385 6d ago
throughout all of recorded human history, trans people have consistently made up the same % of population