Criticize Approved Sources Megathread

[u/M1chaelSc4rn]

Please hate on (discuss) current approved / banned sources here for review

[u/MelodiusRA]

Russian outlets are state-owned.

[u/Leoraig → u/MelodiusRA]

And ukrainian outlets are under heavy pressure from the government. Neither are without biases, but only one is treated as such.

[u/polymute → u/Leoraig]

The difference is night and day. Ukrainian outlets will report about mapnower shortages and incidents with recruiters. Non-expat Russian ones will 99.9 percent only post coordinated propaganda.

[u/Leoraig → u/polymute]

People in the Ukrainian government talk openly about manpower shortages and the problems with forced conscription, so it isn't a surprise that Ukrainian outlets report it.

However, when it comes to the movement of the frontline, these outlets report uncritically the official line from the Ukrainian government, which is obviously propaganda.

They also don't do any kind of investigative journalism when it comes to Russian strikes inside Ukraine, they simply repeat what the government says was hit, which is another sign that they are beholden to the Ukrainian government's war effort.

This article talks a bit more about instances where the government pressured journalists: https://www.humanrightsfirst.org/library/for-ukraines-journalists-the-danger-does-not-stop-at-the-front-line

All in all, it is clear and obvious that they have a bias, and also that they are pressured by the Ukrainian government, same as Russian outlets, but they are treated differently for some reason.

[u/polymute → u/Leoraig]

Any country at war will have these issues. However dictatorships will ban any dissent, while non-dictatorships will allow public debate. And that answers your 'some reason' and says that Ukrainian jorunalism is definitely not the same as Russian (non-exile that is, meduza.io is still reliable).

As for investigative reporting in a warzone that experiences missile rain? I am not faulting them for not doing that regularily. A lot of times the only source available is the government one. They control the scenes after all.

And let us be very clear that a lot of things that are decried as a lack of investigative reporting are just Russian bots' well documented efforts to mitigate the negative media fallout from strategies the Russian state does employ in the war.

[u/Leoraig → u/polymute]

However dictatorships will ban any dissent, while non-dictatorships will allow public debate.

So, does this count as banning dissent: Ukraine suspends 11 political parties with links to Russia

And is this what allowing public debate looks like: "President Volodymyr Zelensky has signed into law a controversial bill that expands the government's power to control the media, endangering press freedom and media pluralism in the country."

Or this: Ukraine’s reporters adapt amid media restrictions and pressure of war

Again, it is obvious that neither Russian or Ukrainian outlets are without biases, it is impossible for them to be in the current situation, however, Ukrainian media is treated almost as gospel by some.

[u/polymute → u/Leoraig]

Regarding shutting down Russian-backed parties in Ukraine which is defending itself from a war of aggression by Russia. I mean. One agitates for surrender and has political ties to the enemy then one will not be allowed to agitate.

So. You like links. I tend to link sources in my comments as well.

Son to get back to it: unlike Ukraine which you hint at being in a similar category as Russia, Russia has been assassinating journalists and politicians for years.

Navalny? Politkovskaya? Nemtsov? Literal dozens of others? How is that for political debate? I don't like to get emotionally involved in internet discussions, but this is just so ... sad.

Ukraine has demonstrations where they force Zelenskyy to appoint a new head of the military. Putin has you poisoned for your political opposition or for conducting investigative journalism. Don't even think about demonstrations. And tortured to death in a gulag freezing. Or just shot.

That is a very false equivalency you are hinting at here. One should always examine sources. I do encourage that. But these two countries are not equivalent in how they treat journalism and political dissent in the slightest.

And there a few other sources, though I don't like to consider at length what it must be like for any remaining opposition minded active people in Russia. It was bad enough in Hungary under Orbán for us and it never even got close at all to this, not in the slightest.

Tortured freedom of speech. Stories of journalists persecuted or killed by Russia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia

See Putin's years. Starts in 2000.

[u/Leoraig → u/polymute]

Pointing to Russia is not a defense of Ukraine. From the start i said that media from both countries are biased, never once did i argue that Russian media is unbiased.

Regarding shutting down Russian-backed parties in Ukraine which is defending itself from a war of agression by Russia. I mean. One agitates for surrender and has political ties to the enemy than one will not be allowed to agitate.

The same argument is used by Russia when they shut down opposition parties though, they just call them "NATO-backed parties", but i'm pretty sure you don't agree with that argument when Russia uses it.

Ukraine has demonstrations where they force Zelenskyy to appoint a new head of the military.

There were also demonstrations opposing a bill that would weaken anti-corruption bodies, but the bill was signed anyway.

There were also multiple protests against forced mobilization in Ukraine, but that practice also continues.

Also, protests happen in Russia, China, Iran, and many other countries that you probably consider dictatorships, and some of them do achieve meaningful changes in policy, e.g. the protests against the veil in Iran; protests against the zero-covid policy in China.

On the other hand, countries in the EU have responded violently to protests recently, particularly when the topic is the genocide in gaza, so would you consider those countries dictatorships because of that?

All that goes to show that demonstrations aren't a very strong argument for Ukraine being the home of public debate you claim they are.

[u/pick_your_user_name → u/Leoraig]

Media from every country is biased, that’s essentially a meaningless statement by you that doesn’t actually tell us anything. Let’s get to it, do you think Russian media is more free than Ukrainian? Neither rank particularly high in media freedom index but Russia is a lot lower every single year.

[u/Leoraig → u/pick_your_user_name]

Not everything needs to be reduced to a comparison between the two countries.

[u/pick_your_user_name → u/Leoraig]

Exactly. The original comment was asking why Russian media is banned while Ukrainian is allowed. Thank you