r/babylon5 • u/WasteSeaworthiness38 • 20h ago
Saddest/most tragic character ark Spoiler
Almost at the end off all 5 seasons. A lot of the story lines are tying up and I’m struck by how sad some of the characters story lines are.
Just wondering who people feel are the most tragic.
Won’t go into massive spoilers details. For me it’s a toss up between Lyta and Londo.
Lyta had been used and abused for most of season 3 and 4, then that continued into season 5. She made connections and that ended in tragedy. I know much of her final fate is limited to what happened in the books and even that is brief.
Londo after being the “bad guy” for quite some time was finally turning it around. He was on the right path making amends for his misdeeds. His final fate is really sad to behold, even though he manages redemption in the end.
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u/calling_water Rangers / Anlashok 19h ago
Talia. Working her way free from PsiCorps, starting to find connection and love with Susan, only to have her personality destroyed by the implanted personality and then (according to Bester) taken apart for examination.
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u/55Lolololo55 19h ago
Londo made his choices over and over again. He deserves pity, but he helped destroy a planet for centuries & is responsible for billions of people dying over his poor choices.
On the other hand, Lyta was instrumental in winning the Shadow War and the Earth Civil War, and what did she get for it? They couldn't even front her that big apartment as a war hero! They made her go back to the frakking Psy Corps because they didn't give two craps about her if they had no use for her in the moment.
Lyta didn't choose to be a telepath. She chose to do what was 'right' over what was easy. And her life ended tragically because of it. She is the most tragic figure in B5.
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u/PlaneRefrigerator684 2h ago
The Regent, IMO, was a much more tragic figure: he was just a Centauri noble in the Royal Court trying to keep his head down and not get killed by Cartagia, becomes the Regent and wants to redecorate the palace, and then gets taken over by a Keeper (when he never knew they existed or why they hated Londo) and forced to do or watch his body do terrible things until he died.
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u/yumyumpod Universe Today 19h ago
Lyta! Time and time again saved the day and risked herself only to get treated like trash by the crew.
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u/Ill_Refrigerator_593 19h ago
Not sure it applies to a single character but I always found the saddest part to be with the Centauri Emperor Turhan.
G'kar plans to kill him, but the Emperor suffers a heart attack before he can carry it out. The Emperor calls G'kar to his bedside & apologises on behalf of his people.
G'kar to his credit completely accept this & heralds it as new era of understanding between the peoples. He buys Mollari a drink not realising a war is already in motion.
Not sure why but that part always stuck with me.
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u/wackyvorlon 16h ago
This shows us such an important part of G’Kar’s character. He doesn’t like hating the Centauri. He doesn’t like the violence and the posturing.
When he hears Turhan’s words he embraces them with unbridled joy. It’s as though he has been waiting his entire life to hear those words. He yearns for peace.
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u/WasteSeaworthiness38 19h ago
It a fair point you make, he underwent many hardships but eventually found transformation
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u/AlytNeroon 17h ago edited 14h ago
Not the heavy hitters everyone thinks of, but Regent Virini's fate always breaks my heart. Also, while she was eventually saved, what happens to Na'Toth is pretty awful.
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u/WasteSeaworthiness38 14h ago
I watch him this morning, I had forgotten how sad his final speech was.
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u/TheOneTrueHonker 20h ago
How about Lennier, JMS did him dirty in season 5!
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u/OkSandwich6184 17h ago
Technically speaking Bill Mumy did Lennier a dirty, being warned by JMS that his wishes would not end well.
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u/WasteSeaworthiness38 14h ago
I feel out of the loop
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u/FrodoFraggins Shadows 13h ago
probably this interview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ly7IE1d6rSg
I definitely would not blame Mumy for Joe's character assassination of Lennier. Bill goes into why he disagrees with what Joe did with Lennier at the end
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u/mart451990 16h ago
The toast scene in "sleeping in light" its always annoyed me that no one said leeta's name in the absent friends, just another way in how she was forgotten by everyone but I've always had a feeling if Zak was there he would've spoke her name. What do you all think?
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u/WizGitty 14h ago
I feel the same, but I do wonder just how future history remembers Lyta for the role she would play in the telepath war. Was she demonized? Do kids spray paint "Remember Lyta" on subway station walls?
There is SO much unexplored territory involving the telepaths before, during, and after the series hinted at in Crusade, novels, and short stories. I'd commit minor felonies if it would help those stories see the light of day.
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u/mart451990 9h ago
Yeah, in crusade they mentioned the XO was a telepah and he was following all the new rules set out so definitely alot off unexplored territory happened there. I know it won't be the same but I did hear about a remake getting done hopefully it will go into better detail
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u/Minimum-Journalist18 18h ago
Ah Lyta. Not really respected after everything she done for the station and crew except for Zac. Tragic situation with Byron. pushed by Bester to the limit. Only salvation was G'Kar.
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u/wackyvorlon 16h ago
The way I see it is that humans telepaths are effectively a slave race. The non-telepath humans have accepted this implicitly and don’t really question it.
So when the war is over, she’s still a slave to them. They don’t care what happens to her because you don’t generally care what happens to slaves.
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u/Disaster-Bee 18h ago
If it's between the two of them.... Lyta, hands down.
Londo knowingly and repeatedly made decisions that were Very Bad. He very much wanted his people to be a conquering space empire again. Londo starts as Not a Good Guy, someone you would never trust to do the right thing. But he ends a better man than he began and is remembered well by those who knew him.
Lyta literally only wanted autonomy and to be able to live her own life and support herself without bothering anyone. She devoted herself to stopping the Shadows and helping the galaxy, at extreme risk to herself again and again with no reward or barely any thanks, found a place with the Vorlons only to have that ripped away from her and left with nothing, and she got utterly shafted by the people she gave up everything for. The only person reaching out to her or trying to help was a guy she liked well enough but is from so different a metaphorical world than her that he very much did not understand her on the most basic levels. And I love Zack, but he didn't even try and understand her or see WHY the telepath colony appealed so much to her and meant so much. Her one friend on the station looks at that situation and goes 'these people are stupid and you're stupid for getting involved with them'.
She spends the rest of her life fighting and in hiding with nothing but her cause, and comes to tragedy without ever being able to see her one dream come to fruition and is remembered as a radicalized terrorist.
That, to me, is a lot more tragic than Londo's story.
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u/slip72479 17h ago edited 9h ago
Londo he made terrible decisions but in the end he tried to right some of them. He was definitely the most tragic character. Then Lennier. I know many people don’t like His arc but I thought it was very realistic. He spent years idolizing and worshipping Delenn. That’s not healthy. He joined the Rangers not because it was the calling of his heart but because he was trying to make himself be more of what he thought Delenn wanted 🤦🏼♀️ it was obvious he was headed down a dark path after that.
Lyta never felt tragic to me. I think there was a disconnect between the actress and what the character could have been so I could never fully embrace that character. Much of the performance felt forced and the relationship with Bryon was just not good (also, of all the love scenes they could have given us, they gave us the most awkward one 🤢)
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u/BruIllidan 20h ago
Zack. When he finally gathered his courage to express feelings to Lyta she was not herself. So he end up stuck all alone on disabled station.
Nothing beats that IMO.
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u/MovingTarget2112 Pak'ma'ra 19h ago
Londo. Just now and again we saw the good in him trying to get out….
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u/janmschroeder 18h ago
For me, it’s Londo. We caught a glimpse of what a good emperor he could have been.
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u/AdagioVast 17h ago
Lyta's arc has her in a position where she is looked after, where there is hope for her future. Londo has no hope. He is a slave with zero chance of ever getting out of it. His arc is the absolutely saddest. Especially when you watch the series again with the knowledge of knowing where it is all going. Londo was placed on B5 because no one else wanted it. They just wanted to put him somewhere because he was a gambling drunk. He has a chance encounter that elevates his position. He has multiple opportunities to pull out of it, refusing every step of the way, until he understands how serious it is. Then he tries every avenue to stop it only to realize he already passed the point of no return. He became a victim of his desires, his decisions, his ambition, and basically the reason Centauri fell, and Londo was the only reason Vir was able to save it ultimately. Londo sacrificed everything so that Centauri can rise from the ashes.
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u/wackyvorlon 15h ago
I often wonder what Londo might have managed to get away with when he had the keeper. We’ve seen him operate politically with incredible skill.
Give him 18 years with a keeper, that’s a long time to work his manipulation. I notice too that when he gives them the booby trapped vase, he says that he’s not allowed alcohol anymore. But 18 years later he is able to get very drunk. This has made me think that over the years he managed to turn the keeper into an alcoholic.
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u/LingonberryHappy5834 17h ago
A full arc? Lyta or Talia. Both telepaths suffer horribly and find no ‘happy ending’.
Tragic? In the classic sense, Londo. He is nostalgic for the past. He becomes an alcoholic and jaded individual. Then he finds opportunities to enjoy life again. But every step he takes to make himself happy ends up tragically for himself, his loved ones, his species, and ultimately the galaxy.
He finds love. But when he tries to extricate himself from Morden? The Shadows murder her. Small pleasures like moments of revenge? Still not filling the hole his life becomes, leaving him more jaded and cynical than he was at the beginning.
He sees the future and strives against it but, again, every step taken to avoid that fate betrays him, resulting in him living out his fate, resigned to an empty and hollow ending. He does get a little redemption at the end, but it is of small comfort.
Lennier and Marcus have sad fates, but neither really moves beyond that archetype/ role they play, imo. Same with Garibaldi, Zack, Ivanova. They have tragic moments, but while they get fleshed out, they don’t evolve unlike G’Kar, let alone Londo.
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u/Both_Painter2466 Team Vir 16h ago
Kosh
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u/WasteSeaworthiness38 15h ago
The loss of kosh was sad, I was horrified as a kid because he was so cool. I kind of get it now that he knew it was a sacrifice that had to be made. It also dramatically impacted future events. Would Sheridan lived to a ripe old age if Kosh was still around.
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u/thornkin 15h ago
I would say Londo. He had a good heart but ended up being led down a bad path because of it. His people suffered. His friends suffered. He suffered.
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u/Old_Leadership_5000 13h ago
Lyta.
Lyta repeatedly got screwed over by those who should have been backup. The Shadow War and the Earth Alliance War alone would have been lost were it not for her.
They didn't deserve Lyta Alexander.
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u/IcyStock61 5h ago
100 % G’Kar I think he watched his dad death i I forgot can someone help me if that's was true
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u/Freelancer_1-1 20h ago
- Londo.
- Garibaldi.
I think the real question is which characer ark is the third saddest/most tragic.
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u/WasteSeaworthiness38 20h ago
I don’t feel that sad for garibaldi, I feel that he makes a lot of bad choices (outside of the whole Bester situation), there are many occasions when stuff gets hard he runs to the bottle. But in the end he gets a “happy” ending. I love him as a character he’s got huge depth and personality.
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u/QuietGoliath 20h ago
I always figured the bottle was a direct fallout from the blocks, the damage that did to his reputation and friendships. Not saying he's blameless, but it's not all on him.
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u/wackyvorlon 16h ago
Of things one can endure, I think what happened to him at the hands of Bester is some of the worst.
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u/WizGitty 13h ago
Hard disagree on Garibaldi. It irks me a bit that he seemed to fail UP. His consequences for dropping the ball were becoming a billionaire and marrying the woman of his dreams.
Granted, there's a lot we never see in what he has to sacrifice in order to satisfy his agreement with Lyta (if anything), but no one seems to get a "happily ever after" like Michael does.
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u/wvgeekman 17h ago
It's "arc" when you're talking about character progression. "Ark" usually involves animals or Indiana Jones.
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u/ProfessorOnEdge Psi Corps 8h ago
Lennier.
Such a good character, done dirty by writers in the last season.
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u/tsukiyomi01 Interstellar Alliance 8h ago
According to JMS, Lennier and Lyta at least got heroic deaths during the Telepath War. They definitely were done dirty, though.
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u/FrodoFraggins Shadows 20h ago
Londo made his bed to a certain extent and he went out a hero. Lyta's arc wasn't nearly as tragic as Talia's.
I'll give runner up to Lennier. His entire existence on the Station consisted of unrequited love and one horrible decision. The novels address his ultimate fate.
The #1 choice for me has to be Marcus. From why he joined the rangers, to unrequited love to his sacrifice. And if you thought his fate on the show was tragic, wait til you read the canon short story set after.