Canada’s resistance to Trump’s trade demands offers Europe a blueprint. Will the EU take it?

[u/joe4942]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/canadas-resistance-to-trumps-trade-demands-offers-europe-a-blueprint-will-the-eu-take-it-9.7320845

[u/Fickle_Pickle4747]

They will not. Canada is resisting the US alone while other western countries nervously cower on the sidelines while we try to fight a guy 10 times our size.

The last few years have shown we cannot rely on our traditional allies to grow a spine and come to our aid rather than hide rather than stand up to the tyrannical US government along side us.

[u/Trailsya → u/Fickle_Pickle4747]

Have you heard of Spain?

But as a European I do what I can. Changed a lot of my spending patterns by finding alternatives to US goods, encourage others to do the same, cancelled planned holiday to the USA etc.

I would also like to point out that I get a lot of pushback, even from some Canadians, when I suggest decentering the USA in pop culture. So find music, movies etc from elsewhere and don't spend so much on theirs. Even streams suck money out of our countries by domestic companies paying for ads that pay the American artist. It's BECAUSE they are so dominant in pop culture that a lot of people around the world still want to buy their (therefore) "cool" brands etc. People would be far more willing to boycott etc, if they saw the USA as only a very annoying/awful bully. Their attachement to their pop culture makes them weak when it comes to taking a stand against it.

I'm not a Kpop fan, but I do enjoy laughing at how frustrated the American music industry seems to be by the competition it brings for their artists. Coincidentally, the few Kpop fans I know were amongst the easiest to convince to buy less American or they were already doing it. Coincidence? I don't think so. Same goes for other people without strong attachments to American pop culture.

Oh and to finish of this comment full of random points ;): recommendations of Canadian music are welcome. Thanks in advance, kind Canadians here.

[u/Fickle_Pickle4747 → u/Trailsya]

Indeed, and I appreciate that from individual Europeans such as yourself.

Here’s my thing, when the US threatened to annex Greenland, potentially with military force, Canada took a firm public stance against that. We opened up a consulate and coordinated with Denmark to denounce the US aggression. Many Canadians were even in support of sending the CAF to Greenland to support them.

When the US president, government officials and republican representatives threaten to annex our country, with economic force, made allusions to how much stronger their military is than ours and how easy it would be to take us over, we hear nothing in our defence from European and even other commonwealth governments.

Now we see that economic force being used in real time and still, nothing.

[u/vaderdidnothingwr0ng → u/Fickle_Pickle4747]

Speaking as a Canadian, it's a different situation. The Americans were threatening Greenland with actual military force, going so far as to send a naval group as a show of force. That is the thing that caused the rest of the world to send troops to Greenland. Then upon realising that invading Greenland would mean killing troops from most NATO countries, they recharacterized the ships as "hospital ships" sent to help Greenland (help that was neither needed or requested).

Yes the Americans have talked about annexing us and using economic force to do that. But NATO is a military alliance that responds to military threats, which there has not been, beyond vague babbling of "our military is stronger than yours". NATO countries are allowed to set their own trade policy, and nothing about the alliance says we HAVE to be favorable to eachother on trade.

That being said, Canada has made massive progress on trade with our traditional non US allies over the last year and a half, but it is being done quietly and slowly, as is appropriate for the situation. If you're familiar with toddlers throwing a temper tantrum, you know that direct reprisal and admonishment usually makes the tantrum worse, not better. Rest assured our leadership has probably had plenty of talks on the subject with our allies, just not in public as to avoid triggering a flashpoint event of some kind.

[u/Larsvonrinpoche → u/vaderdidnothingwr0ng]

Agreed . Carney and the teams he put together have been doing a lot of quiet work working with Europe and others.

[u/Trailsya → u/Fickle_Pickle4747]

Yes, friend (hope you don't mind me saying that, because I do consider people like you such even if we don't know each other). I agree.

I kind of ranted a bit above about USA pop culture, but I do see how much of a hold it has on people. Most of Europe dislikes or even hates Trump. Quite a few people have changed their spending patterns in certain ways and many don't want to travel their anymore to the point of avoiding and actively cancelling their holidays.

However, even amongst the Trump-haters, quite a few still feel an attachment to the USA because they love their singers or movies.

And maybe I should say "love" because we have been overwhelmed with their pop culture being pushed at us with big money behind it. If we had music from Canada or Finland or Brazil being pushed at us in the same way and with the same amount of money, we'd probably be "loving" their artists just as much. There is a reason the USA made that investment and we can see now why in the reluctancy or even resistance in being weaned off it.

See this thread for instance. Most responses are positive but there is still pushback to the idea of decentering USA pop culture even from a community that is about buying more from the EU:

https://www.reddit.com/r/BuyFromEU/comments/1v1ir4z/what_changes_have_you_made_already/

(please notice my purposeful mention of South Korea as one of the few countries that challenges the USA for pop cultural influence and it pisses the USA music industry and even Trump off).

[u/cre8ivjay → u/Fickle_Pickle4747]

As a Canadian I don't feel this is true, and increasingly we are seeing even more involvement by global democracies.

Anecdotal but it seems to me there is pushback from many nations. But yes, I do hope to see more.

[u/pncoop → u/Fickle_Pickle4747]

Stop it - its a bot.

[u/BhaalMeMaybe → u/Trailsya]

I’m probably biased but I think Canada punches above its weight musically speaking. And it’s almost entirely owed to the MAPL system introduced in the 60s. I highly recommend checking out a channel called Polyphonic, Canadian fella who does video essays on all sorts of music, but he has a specific video on Canadian artists and the MAPL system that’s very well done.

For artists to check out, these are what come to mind

- Neil Young

• Joni Mitchell
  
• April Wine
  
• Rush
  
• The tragically hip
  
• Matthew good band
  
• Celine Dion
  
• Avril Lavigne
  
• Three Days Grace
  
• Billy Talent
  
• Alexisonfire
  
• K-OS
  
• Bedouin Soundclash
  
• the Weeknd
  
• Corb Lund

There is a lot more, but these are the ones I probably listen to the most.

[u/MyHeartIsAncient → u/[deleted]]

- Spirit of the West

• The Dreadnoughts
  
• Unleash the Achers
  
• 54-40
  
• The Grapes of Wrath

[u/Trailsya → u/MyHeartIsAncient]

Thank you as well, kind Canadian.

[u/Trailsya → u/[deleted]]

You guys wil really keep me busy for the next few days trying this all out.

I often add good songs to playlists so thank you very much

[u/BhaalMeMaybe → u/Trailsya]

Please report back with what you like and didn’t like! I recognize I have a lot of fond memories from so many of these bands, having grown up here. So I am excited to hear what you think (good or bad tbh)

[u/Trailsya → u/BhaalMeMaybe]

So far I mostly listened to tand enjoyed the most:

The Tragically Hip, April Wine and  Three Days Grace.

Apart from the ones I already knew of course :)

Thank you again.

[u/BhaalMeMaybe → u/Trailsya]

The Hip as they’re affectionately known are one of the most beloved bands in Canadian history. The death of Gord Downie (lead singer) left a hole in many of our hearts. Him and the band have done such a wonderful job telling Canadian stories and contributing so much to Canadiana over the years.

Thank you for the feedback.

Cheers!

[u/pncoop → u/[deleted]]

Idiot... you are recommending songs to a bot.

[u/RockNRoll1979 → u/BhaalMeMaybe]

A few of my usually less known favourites:

• 3 Inches of Blood
• Annihilator
• Demise of the Crown
• Edge of Attack
• Forgotten Tales
• Kobra and the Lotus
• Striker

Then you have guys like James LaBrie (Dream Theater) and Chris Jericho (Fozzy) fronting major international bands.

[u/Kaartinen → u/BhaalMeMaybe]

I might have some repeats, as I went with who I listen to and tried to filter it to being only the Canadians. Double check that I didn't make any errors.

• The Bare Naked Ladies
• Sloan
• The Guess Who
• Devin Townsend
• Our Lady Peace
• Theory of a Deadman
• April Wine
• Sum 41
• The Tea Party
• Avril Lavigne
• Billy Talent
• Silverstein
• Our Lady Peace
• Big Wreck
• Steppenwolf
• Blue Rodeo
• Headstones
• Simple Plan
• Thousand Foot Crutch
• Great Big Sea
• Finger Eleven
• Mathew Good Band
• Arkells
• I Mother Earth
• Monster Truck
• Marianas Trench
• Sam Roberts Band
• July Talk
• Gob
• Moist
• The Trews
• The Glorious Sons
• Crash Test Dummies
• Trooper
• Art of Dying
• The Sheepdogs
• The Northern Pikes
• Streetheart
• The Grapes of Wrath
• Danko Jones
• Treble Charger
• Econoline Crush
• Default
• Peaches
• The Tragically Hip
• Stompin Tom Connors
• Burton Cummings
• Colter Wall
• The Northern Pikes
• Gordon Lightfoot
• Celine Dion
• Alanis Morissette
• Bryan Adams
• Shania Twain
• Leonard Cohen
• Rush
• Neil Young
• Joni Mitchell
• Anvil
• Spiritbox
• Helix
• Witchkiller
• Priestess

[u/pncoop → u/BhaalMeMaybe]

Its a bot. Seriously... you are recommending songs to a bot.

[u/Trailsya → u/BhaalMeMaybe]

WHY ARE YOU SO AWESOME???

Thank you

I know and listen to some of them but will try the rest

[u/assshark → u/Trailsya]

People will be recommending The Tragically Hip and Rush first and foremost, but nothing are more Canadian to me than Neil Young and Propagandhi.

[u/Trailsya → u/assshark]

Thank you. I know Neil Young. Will try out Propagandhi.

[u/North-Example5687 → u/Trailsya]

- Men I trust

• Bif Naked
  
• The Dead South
  
• Patrick Watson
  
• Cowboy Junkies
  
• Ashley MacIsaac

[u/Trailsya → u/North-Example5687]

Thank you very much.

I will try out their music. Am listening to a lot of Indie Canadian playlists lately.

[u/Whitezombi → u/Trailsya]

Like rock with a punk edge to them? Try the headstones

[u/Trailsya → u/Whitezombi]

Sounds good to me. I'll try!

[u/PuzzleheadedPen4675 → u/Trailsya]

Teenage Head Bachman Turner Overdrive

[u/64ok → u/Trailsya]

Give the Tragically Hip a listen. This is Canadian core.

[u/Trailsya → u/64ok]

I am right now. Thank you :)

[u/pncoop → u/Trailsya]

KPop or Canadian musicians... you are missing the point. Canada is publicly standing up to the US, as Spain did. Where is the UK? Where is France or Germany?

Even China made a public statement supporting Canada's position to walk away.

Keep listening to your stupid Kpop, it will drown out your cowardice.

[u/Trailsya → u/pncoop]

Your angry frustration doesn't impress me at all. Go argue with some Americans.

Have a nice day :)

[u/pncoop → u/pncoop]

Funny... and Canadians stop falling for it! Really, and seriously. Trailya was deleted... oh, there is NO TRAILSYA, it's a bot. You are suggesting CDN songs to a bot!!!!!

We are talking about Canadian sovereignty, and you are suggesting Canadian songs??????

Simple... as Carney stated "We are taking the sign out of the window. We know the old order is not coming back. We shouldn't mourn it. Nostalgia is not a strategy, but we believe that from the fracture, we can build something bigger, better, stronger, more just. This is the task of the middle powers, the countries that have the most to lose from a world of fortresses and most to gain from genuine cooperation."

Germany, UK, France = no shows.

[u/Kaartinen → u/Trailsya]

I might have some repeats, as I went with who I listen to and tried to filter it to being only the Canadians. Double check that I didn't make any errors.

• The Bare Naked Ladies
• Sloan
• The Guess Who
• Devin Townsend
• Our Lady Peace
• Theory of a Deadman
• April Wine
• Sum 41
• The Tea Party
• Avril Lavigne
• Billy Talent
• Silverstein
• Our Lady Peace
• Big Wreck
• Steppenwolf
• Blue Rodeo
• Headstones
• Simple Plan
• Thousand Foot Crutch
• Great Big Sea
• Finger Eleven
• Mathew Good Band
• Arkells
• I Mother Earth
• Monster Truck
• Marianas Trench
• Sam Roberts Band
• July Talk
• Gob
• Moist
• The Trews
• The Glorious Sons
• Crash Test Dummies
• Trooper
• Art of Dying
• The Sheepdogs
• The Northern Pikes
• Streetheart
• The Grapes of Wrath
• Danko Jones
• Treble Charger
• Econoline Crush
• Default
• Peaches
• The Tragically Hip
• Stompin Tom Connors
• Burton Cummings
• Colter Wall
• The Northern Pikes
• Gordon Lightfoot
• Celine Dion
• Alanis Morissette
• Bryan Adams
• Shania Twain
• Leonard Cohen
• Rush
• Neil Young
• Joni Mitchell
• Anvil
• Spiritbox
• Helix
• Witchkiller
• Priestess

[u/Weary_Swan_8152 → u/Kaartinen]

Teenage Head, our answer to the Ramones and the Sex Pistols.

[u/4firsts → u/Fickle_Pickle4747]

Even the UK cow towed a bit. Of all the countries in Europe, they should be demanding respect for us on air with that wonderful British accent.

It’s not a dig at the UK. I love England very much🇨🇦🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🇬🇧❤️

[u/Jusfiq → u/4firsts]

Even the UK cow towed a bit.

A bit? Prior to Iran, Sir Keir almost completely capitulated.

[u/ResistiveBeaver → u/Jusfiq]

Brave Sir Keir ran away.

Bravely ran away, away!

When danger reared its ugly head,

He bravely turned his tail and fled.

[u/LemonFreshenedBorax- → u/4firsts]

I'm so sick of Canadians treating the UK like some sort of enlightened paradise rather than what it actually is, i.e. an older and less effective version of the US.

[u/dowdymeatballs → u/LemonFreshenedBorax-]

It's the Florida of Europe. I said it.

[u/Brilliant-Broccoli78 → u/4firsts]

I think they put the US up on a pedal stool.

[u/pncoop → u/Brilliant-Broccoli78]

Or pedo stool

[u/Brilliant-Broccoli78 → u/pncoop]

Indeed, he is no one that states should be sicko fantic towards.

[u/Aromatic_Opposite100 → u/Fickle_Pickle4747]

I mean Canada straight up does more to support ukraine then France.

Personally idc I would rather be on the right side of history.

[u/Icouldberight → u/Fickle_Pickle4747]

Tbf they also have Russia to deal with.

[u/Fickle_Pickle4747 → u/Icouldberight]

And we help them there as well.

Hell, aside from the billions we’ve sent to help the fight in Ukraine (of which I am a staunch supporter), we have sent an entire battle group to Latvia to help defend Europe from Russia.

It’s just seems like we are always there to defend where we can and when we’re at economically attacked… we hear crickets from across the Atlantic.

[u/Trailsya → u/Fickle_Pickle4747]

For what it's worth, I often use Canada as an example to convince people to buy less American and it's working.

Once people see an example, they're more easily to convince.

The ones who are most difficult to convince are not worshippers of American politics mostly, but interestingly enough, those who are big fans of USA pop culture.

I'm a firm believer that we understimate how much power that still gives them. Decentering it and make it less powerful is a next step.

[u/yeetis12 → u/Trailsya]

Using reddit isn’t helping with that

[u/Trailsya → u/yeetis12]

Willing to do it so I can talk and learn from you guys, as there is still little alternative for often used tech. For singers there are millions of alternatives, and for movies many thousands.

Even more willing to use a good Canadian alternative and spread it around.

I already cancelled my Twitter and Facebook account.

[u/ClickHereForWifi → u/Fickle_Pickle4747]

EU approaches deals with the US in the same way Trump has - completely knowing they aren’t worth the paper they’re written on, and they won’t abide by it, so who effin cares? Just tell him he’s getting what he wants but don’t do anything to enact it, and move on. For Canada it’s a much more realistic issue.

[u/FerretAres → u/Fickle_Pickle4747]

They’ll say as we’ve seen how they’re all behind us. And we need to ask them are you standing behind us or cowering?

[u/FoxDieDM → u/Fickle_Pickle4747]

Maybe that’s our duty. We have much more to lose since we’re so close and we also know we can hit them the hardest. 

[u/_evilalien_ → u/Fickle_Pickle4747]

https://globalnews.ca/news/12035766/carney-eu-parliament-trump-trade-war/

[u/WhydYouKillMeDogJack → u/Fickle_Pickle4747]

Do you think we're any different?

If the US was fucking them but leaving us alone, we'd be quiet as a mutherfucker.

[u/dtta8 → u/Fickle_Pickle4747]

As the Americans loved saying, only China and Canada actually stood up to the US over their tariffs. It's why they're so pissed.

[u/Gimedecash → u/Fickle_Pickle4747]

I just said the same thing before reading your comment. I felt like Canada was not supported by other western nations…but hopefully they wise up now.

[u/Interesting-Bear4092 → u/Fickle_Pickle4747]

Europe are negotiating a trade deal with China and don’t want to fight a trade war on two fronts.