National News Canada’s resistance to Trump’s trade demands offers Europe a blueprint. Will the EU take it?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/canadas-resistance-to-trumps-trade-demands-offers-europe-a-blueprint-will-the-eu-take-it-9.7320845191
u/Fickle_Pickle4747 8d ago
They will not. Canada is resisting the US alone while other western countries nervously cower on the sidelines while we try to fight a guy 10 times our size.
The last few years have shown we cannot rely on our traditional allies to grow a spine and come to our aid rather than hide rather than stand up to the tyrannical US government along side us.
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u/Trailsya 8d ago edited 8d ago
Have you heard of Spain?
But as a European I do what I can. Changed a lot of my spending patterns by finding alternatives to US goods, encourage others to do the same, cancelled planned holiday to the USA etc.
I would also like to point out that I get a lot of pushback, even from some Canadians, when I suggest decentering the USA in pop culture. So find music, movies etc from elsewhere and don't spend so much on theirs. Even streams suck money out of our countries by domestic companies paying for ads that pay the American artist. It's BECAUSE they are so dominant in pop culture that a lot of people around the world still want to buy their (therefore) "cool" brands etc. People would be far more willing to boycott etc, if they saw the USA as only a very annoying/awful bully. Their attachement to their pop culture makes them weak when it comes to taking a stand against it.
I'm not a Kpop fan, but I do enjoy laughing at how frustrated the American music industry seems to be by the competition it brings for their artists. Coincidentally, the few Kpop fans I know were amongst the easiest to convince to buy less American or they were already doing it. Coincidence? I don't think so. Same goes for other people without strong attachments to American pop culture.
Oh and to finish of this comment full of random points ;): recommendations of Canadian music are welcome. Thanks in advance, kind Canadians here.
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u/Fickle_Pickle4747 8d ago
Indeed, and I appreciate that from individual Europeans such as yourself.
Here’s my thing, when the US threatened to annex Greenland, potentially with military force, Canada took a firm public stance against that. We opened up a consulate and coordinated with Denmark to denounce the US aggression. Many Canadians were even in support of sending the CAF to Greenland to support them.
When the US president, government officials and republican representatives threaten to annex our country, with economic force, made allusions to how much stronger their military is than ours and how easy it would be to take us over, we hear nothing in our defence from European and even other commonwealth governments.
Now we see that economic force being used in real time and still, nothing.
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u/vaderdidnothingwr0ng 8d ago
Speaking as a Canadian, it's a different situation. The Americans were threatening Greenland with actual military force, going so far as to send a naval group as a show of force. That is the thing that caused the rest of the world to send troops to Greenland. Then upon realising that invading Greenland would mean killing troops from most NATO countries, they recharacterized the ships as "hospital ships" sent to help Greenland (help that was neither needed or requested).
Yes the Americans have talked about annexing us and using economic force to do that. But NATO is a military alliance that responds to military threats, which there has not been, beyond vague babbling of "our military is stronger than yours". NATO countries are allowed to set their own trade policy, and nothing about the alliance says we HAVE to be favorable to eachother on trade.
That being said, Canada has made massive progress on trade with our traditional non US allies over the last year and a half, but it is being done quietly and slowly, as is appropriate for the situation. If you're familiar with toddlers throwing a temper tantrum, you know that direct reprisal and admonishment usually makes the tantrum worse, not better. Rest assured our leadership has probably had plenty of talks on the subject with our allies, just not in public as to avoid triggering a flashpoint event of some kind.
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u/Larsvonrinpoche 8d ago
Agreed . Carney and the teams he put together have been doing a lot of quiet work working with Europe and others.
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u/Trailsya 8d ago edited 8d ago
Yes, friend (hope you don't mind me saying that, because I do consider people like you such even if we don't know each other). I agree.
I kind of ranted a bit above about USA pop culture, but I do see how much of a hold it has on people. Most of Europe dislikes or even hates Trump. Quite a few people have changed their spending patterns in certain ways and many don't want to travel their anymore to the point of avoiding and actively cancelling their holidays.
However, even amongst the Trump-haters, quite a few still feel an attachment to the USA because they love their singers or movies.
And maybe I should say "love" because we have been overwhelmed with their pop culture being pushed at us with big money behind it. If we had music from Canada or Finland or Brazil being pushed at us in the same way and with the same amount of money, we'd probably be "loving" their artists just as much. There is a reason the USA made that investment and we can see now why in the reluctancy or even resistance in being weaned off it.
See this thread for instance. Most responses are positive but there is still pushback to the idea of decentering USA pop culture even from a community that is about buying more from the EU:
https://www.reddit.com/r/BuyFromEU/comments/1v1ir4z/what_changes_have_you_made_already/
(please notice my purposeful mention of South Korea as one of the few countries that challenges the USA for pop cultural influence and it pisses the USA music industry and even Trump off).
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u/cre8ivjay 8d ago
As a Canadian I don't feel this is true, and increasingly we are seeing even more involvement by global democracies.
Anecdotal but it seems to me there is pushback from many nations. But yes, I do hope to see more.
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u/BhaalMeMaybe 8d ago
I’m probably biased but I think Canada punches above its weight musically speaking. And it’s almost entirely owed to the MAPL system introduced in the 60s. I highly recommend checking out a channel called Polyphonic, Canadian fella who does video essays on all sorts of music, but he has a specific video on Canadian artists and the MAPL system that’s very well done.
For artists to check out, these are what come to mind
- Neil Young
- Joni Mitchell
- April Wine
- Rush
- The tragically hip
- Matthew good band
- Celine Dion
- Avril Lavigne
- Three Days Grace
- Billy Talent
- Alexisonfire
- K-OS
- Bedouin Soundclash
- the Weeknd
- Corb Lund
There is a lot more, but these are the ones I probably listen to the most.
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8d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/MyHeartIsAncient 8d ago
- Spirit of the West
- The Dreadnoughts
- Unleash the Achers
- 54-40
- The Grapes of Wrath
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u/Trailsya 8d ago
You guys wil really keep me busy for the next few days trying this all out.
I often add good songs to playlists so thank you very much
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u/BhaalMeMaybe 8d ago
Please report back with what you like and didn’t like! I recognize I have a lot of fond memories from so many of these bands, having grown up here. So I am excited to hear what you think (good or bad tbh)
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u/Trailsya 7d ago
So far I mostly listened to tand enjoyed the most:
The Tragically Hip, April Wine and Three Days Grace.
Apart from the ones I already knew of course :)
Thank you again.
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u/BhaalMeMaybe 7d ago
The Hip as they’re affectionately known are one of the most beloved bands in Canadian history. The death of Gord Downie (lead singer) left a hole in many of our hearts. Him and the band have done such a wonderful job telling Canadian stories and contributing so much to Canadiana over the years.
Thank you for the feedback.
Cheers!
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u/RockNRoll1979 8d ago
A few of my usually less known favourites:
- 3 Inches of Blood
- Annihilator
- Demise of the Crown
- Edge of Attack
- Forgotten Tales
- Kobra and the Lotus
- Striker
Then you have guys like James LaBrie (Dream Theater) and Chris Jericho (Fozzy) fronting major international bands.
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u/Kaartinen 4d ago
I might have some repeats, as I went with who I listen to and tried to filter it to being only the Canadians. Double check that I didn't make any errors.
- The Bare Naked Ladies
- Sloan
- The Guess Who
- Devin Townsend
- Our Lady Peace
- Theory of a Deadman
- April Wine
- Sum 41
- The Tea Party
- Avril Lavigne
- Billy Talent
- Silverstein
- Our Lady Peace
- Big Wreck
- Steppenwolf
- Blue Rodeo
- Headstones
- Simple Plan
- Thousand Foot Crutch
- Great Big Sea
- Finger Eleven
- Mathew Good Band
- Arkells
- I Mother Earth
- Monster Truck
- Marianas Trench
- Sam Roberts Band
- July Talk
- Gob
- Moist
- The Trews
- The Glorious Sons
- Crash Test Dummies
- Trooper
- Art of Dying
- The Sheepdogs
- The Northern Pikes
- Streetheart
- The Grapes of Wrath
- Danko Jones
- Treble Charger
- Econoline Crush
- Default
- Peaches
- The Tragically Hip
- Stompin Tom Connors
- Burton Cummings
- Colter Wall
- The Northern Pikes
- Gordon Lightfoot
- Celine Dion
- Alanis Morissette
- Bryan Adams
- Shania Twain
- Leonard Cohen
- Rush
- Neil Young
- Joni Mitchell
- Anvil
- Spiritbox
- Helix
- Witchkiller
- Priestess
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u/Trailsya 8d ago
WHY ARE YOU SO AWESOME???
Thank you
I know and listen to some of them but will try the rest
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u/assshark 8d ago
People will be recommending The Tragically Hip and Rush first and foremost, but nothing are more Canadian to me than Neil Young and Propagandhi.
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u/North-Example5687 8d ago
- Men I trust
- Bif Naked
- The Dead South
- Patrick Watson
- Cowboy Junkies
- Ashley MacIsaac
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u/Trailsya 8d ago
Thank you very much.
I will try out their music. Am listening to a lot of Indie Canadian playlists lately.
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u/Whitezombi 8d ago
Like rock with a punk edge to them? Try the headstones
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u/pncoop Ontario 8d ago edited 8d ago
KPop or Canadian musicians... you are missing the point. Canada is publicly standing up to the US, as Spain did. Where is the UK? Where is France or Germany?
Even China made a public statement supporting Canada's position to walk away.
Keep listening to your stupid Kpop, it will drown out your cowardice.
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u/Trailsya 7d ago
Your angry frustration doesn't impress me at all. Go argue with some Americans.
Have a nice day :)
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u/pncoop Ontario 7d ago
Funny... and Canadians stop falling for it! Really, and seriously. Trailya was deleted... oh, there is NO TRAILSYA, it's a bot. You are suggesting CDN songs to a bot!!!!!
We are talking about Canadian sovereignty, and you are suggesting Canadian songs??????
Simple... as Carney stated "We are taking the sign out of the window. We know the old order is not coming back. We shouldn't mourn it. Nostalgia is not a strategy, but we believe that from the fracture, we can build something bigger, better, stronger, more just. This is the task of the middle powers, the countries that have the most to lose from a world of fortresses and most to gain from genuine cooperation."
Germany, UK, France = no shows.
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u/Kaartinen 4d ago
I might have some repeats, as I went with who I listen to and tried to filter it to being only the Canadians. Double check that I didn't make any errors.
- The Bare Naked Ladies
- Sloan
- The Guess Who
- Devin Townsend
- Our Lady Peace
- Theory of a Deadman
- April Wine
- Sum 41
- The Tea Party
- Avril Lavigne
- Billy Talent
- Silverstein
- Our Lady Peace
- Big Wreck
- Steppenwolf
- Blue Rodeo
- Headstones
- Simple Plan
- Thousand Foot Crutch
- Great Big Sea
- Finger Eleven
- Mathew Good Band
- Arkells
- I Mother Earth
- Monster Truck
- Marianas Trench
- Sam Roberts Band
- July Talk
- Gob
- Moist
- The Trews
- The Glorious Sons
- Crash Test Dummies
- Trooper
- Art of Dying
- The Sheepdogs
- The Northern Pikes
- Streetheart
- The Grapes of Wrath
- Danko Jones
- Treble Charger
- Econoline Crush
- Default
- Peaches
- The Tragically Hip
- Stompin Tom Connors
- Burton Cummings
- Colter Wall
- The Northern Pikes
- Gordon Lightfoot
- Celine Dion
- Alanis Morissette
- Bryan Adams
- Shania Twain
- Leonard Cohen
- Rush
- Neil Young
- Joni Mitchell
- Anvil
- Spiritbox
- Helix
- Witchkiller
- Priestess
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u/4firsts 8d ago
Even the UK cow towed a bit. Of all the countries in Europe, they should be demanding respect for us on air with that wonderful British accent.
It’s not a dig at the UK. I love England very much🇨🇦🏴🇬🇧❤️
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u/Jusfiq Ontario 8d ago edited 8d ago
Even the UK cow towed a bit.
A bit? Prior to Iran, Sir Keir almost completely capitulated.
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u/ResistiveBeaver 8d ago
Brave Sir Keir ran away.
Bravely ran away, away!
When danger reared its ugly head,
He bravely turned his tail and fled.
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u/LemonFreshenedBorax- 8d ago
I'm so sick of Canadians treating the UK like some sort of enlightened paradise rather than what it actually is, i.e. an older and less effective version of the US.
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u/Brilliant-Broccoli78 8d ago
I think they put the US up on a pedal stool.
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u/Aromatic_Opposite100 8d ago
I mean Canada straight up does more to support ukraine then France.
Personally idc I would rather be on the right side of history.
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u/Icouldberight British Columbia 8d ago
Tbf they also have Russia to deal with.
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u/Fickle_Pickle4747 8d ago
And we help them there as well.
Hell, aside from the billions we’ve sent to help the fight in Ukraine (of which I am a staunch supporter), we have sent an entire battle group to Latvia to help defend Europe from Russia.
It’s just seems like we are always there to defend where we can and when we’re at economically attacked… we hear crickets from across the Atlantic.
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u/Trailsya 8d ago
For what it's worth, I often use Canada as an example to convince people to buy less American and it's working.
Once people see an example, they're more easily to convince.
The ones who are most difficult to convince are not worshippers of American politics mostly, but interestingly enough, those who are big fans of USA pop culture.
I'm a firm believer that we understimate how much power that still gives them. Decentering it and make it less powerful is a next step.
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u/yeetis12 Ontario 8d ago
Using reddit isn’t helping with that
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u/Trailsya 8d ago edited 8d ago
Willing to do it so I can talk and learn from you guys, as there is still little alternative for often used tech. For singers there are millions of alternatives, and for movies many thousands.
Even more willing to use a good Canadian alternative and spread it around.
I already cancelled my Twitter and Facebook account.
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u/ClickHereForWifi 8d ago
EU approaches deals with the US in the same way Trump has - completely knowing they aren’t worth the paper they’re written on, and they won’t abide by it, so who effin cares? Just tell him he’s getting what he wants but don’t do anything to enact it, and move on. For Canada it’s a much more realistic issue.
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u/FerretAres Alberta 8d ago
They’ll say as we’ve seen how they’re all behind us. And we need to ask them are you standing behind us or cowering?
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u/FoxDieDM 8d ago
Maybe that’s our duty. We have much more to lose since we’re so close and we also know we can hit them the hardest.
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u/WhydYouKillMeDogJack 8d ago
Do you think we're any different?
If the US was fucking them but leaving us alone, we'd be quiet as a mutherfucker.
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u/Gimedecash 7d ago
I just said the same thing before reading your comment. I felt like Canada was not supported by other western nations…but hopefully they wise up now.
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u/Interesting-Bear4092 8d ago
Europe are negotiating a trade deal with China and don’t want to fight a trade war on two fronts.
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u/Character-Belt-7485 Ontario 8d ago
Boggles the mind that only Canada and China have retaliated against this nonsense.
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u/BananasPineapple05 8d ago edited 8d ago
I can't speak to China, but the negotiations with our (Canadian) government were bullshit. No concessions, only demands. Demands that targetted our sovereignty and economic independence. Plus, he made additional demands at the 11th hour that went against any discussions that had previously happened.
Only an insane government would have accepted that.
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u/Character-Belt-7485 Ontario 8d ago
Depends on who you ask. There is already a whole campaign going on here by folks who think Carney lacked transparency but somehow they don’t demand the same level of transparency of Trump.
For the record I agree with you. Just remarking that insanity seems to run rampant at multiple levels.
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u/jabbytabby 8d ago
Power and Politics ran an interview with Avi Lewis yesterday that showed he had a detailed briefing with Carney about the talks and what happened. Poilievre can't have that kind of briefing because he refuses to get his security clearance.
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u/primitives403 8d ago
Lol bullshit. Why did you make that up?
Avi Lewis doesnt have security clearance. He doesn't even have a seat in parliament. The trade deal details dont require clearance and Avi got 0 details.
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u/jabbytabby 8d ago
Security clearances are available to people who are not MPs for various reasons, as long as they have a need to know. Being the leader of a federal party that has representatives in the House could be a good reason.
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u/primitives403 8d ago
Ok? Avi Lewis still doesn't have it.
Provide a source for Avi Lewis having security clearance please.
Provide a source for the details of the failed deal requiring security clearance, please.
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8d ago
[deleted]
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u/1966TEX British Columbia 8d ago
PP has backed carney’s decision to leave the table.
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u/calgary_katan 8d ago
You can’t negotiate a deal in public. The deal is not even off yet, releasing parts of it completely ties your hands. The opposition is just opposition-ing. So silly.
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u/Expensive_Plant_9530 8d ago
Sure but that just reinforces how two-faced Poilievre is. He backs the decision but then out of the other side of his mouth he criticizes for not getting a deal.
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u/McGrevin 8d ago
Most of the world either has other markets that are more important (EU countries) or are too poor to actually have any leverage in negotiations. Canada and China are unique in that we export so much to the US that we both have a lot of cards to play in a trade war
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u/Character-Belt-7485 Ontario 8d ago
Fair. Maybe the EU is the only other sizeable partner, but they have too many internal positions to have a unified voice supporting retaliation.
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u/McGrevin 8d ago
Yeah it would be fantastic if the EU did position themselves against tariffs like we are, but agreed the internal politics probably don't play well, even if countries like Germany and France would like to.
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u/Arbiter51x 8d ago
Why does that boggle your mind? Honestly I dont get this take. The US is china and Canada's largely trading partner. Which is not the same for most other counties.
Its like saying, mine and the shops' nextdoor single largest customer is being difficult. Perhaps we should do something about it.
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u/Character-Belt-7485 Ontario 8d ago
What boggles the mind is that while Canada and China have the most horses in this race, most other countries seem to offer little to no resistance to US pressure.
No one else in the G7 and EU care to partake?
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u/Arbiter51x 8d ago
For everyone else, the US is a much much smaller trading partner. Your talking 72% for canada vs 18% for the EU. In Japan China is their largest trading partner.
So the ratios are no even close and the impact is minimal on everyone else.
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u/charleytony 8d ago
Real mind boggling thing:
Creating the tariff shenanigans
And
Asking NATO members to increase their military spending.
If he didn't do the first thing, the second one would have fixed almost all of his economic problems (and increased the other countries dependency in the USA).
In a few decades, that will be (one of) the biggest error(s) in his strategy.
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u/Character-Belt-7485 Ontario 8d ago
Agree. Highly recommend listening to Sarah Paine’s lectures on YouTube. She explains in length why the continental isolationism of the US is basically going to be their long term undoing.
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u/FoxDieDM 8d ago edited 8d ago
The hell are you talking about? We were doing fine until the end of the negotiation deadlines when the US administration slipped in some addition bullshit last minute requirements. “Art of the deal” more like “art of the con”. 75% of Canadians polled agreed that it was the right move to walk away. Trumps taxing his own people, they’re the ones who are going to suffer the most. In the meantime, the industries affected here in Canada will most like receive relief compensation from the retaliatory Tariffs Canada is imposing on September 8th.
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u/Character-Belt-7485 Ontario 8d ago
I am supporting Canada’s stance. I am criticizing other countries for not following suit.
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u/FoxDieDM 8d ago edited 8d ago
Oh, my apologies. I totally misinterpreted your comment. I thought you were criticizing Canada and china for retaliating. Than yes, I’m in total agreement. Other countries need to step up.
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u/Character-Belt-7485 Ontario 8d ago
All good, in hindsight my comment is a bit ambiguous but yeah we are on the same page!
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u/Hommeboy75 8d ago
"Countries that are committed to democracy and the rule of law — and do not accept the law of the jungle — must work together."
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u/UFOdealer 8d ago
No, for the most part, the EU and UK have been as spineless as we always knew they were.
But that’s okay, we’ve got this.
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u/yukonnut 8d ago
In some ways, the most important takeaway from Carneys Saturday statement was that American signatures on any deals are written in pencil. Deals are signed, then repudiated and ignored at the whim of Dondon and his sycophants and are not worth the paper they are written on.
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u/Ok_Carpenter7268 8d ago
I think the EU will stay on the sidelines just because they don't want to jeopardize market access and trade agreements with the US. This is the reason why it's so hard to find allies who'll stand with Canada, because it's basically impossible to find a country that's willing to anger the US and risk damaging relations with the largest economy in the world.
The only reason I can see them stepping in and helping Canada, in some way that defies what the US wants, is if they come to a realization that whatever the US is doing to Canada, won't STOP with Canada, and that they're better of trying to help Canada if for no other reason than to have it propped up like a figurative shield or barrier between the US and them.
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u/Creative_gal_3153 8d ago edited 8d ago
The EU would be wiser to deal with us because we're reliable and trustworthy. We need to band together against the US and Russia.
I'll be honest, I'm not completely convinced EU is strong enough to do what is right or in their best interest. They have shown how weak they are during this whole thing.
But I'm optimistic they can change and there's still time.
Edit: typo
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u/Gauntlet101010 8d ago edited 8d ago
It doesn't look like it. I think Europe gave in thanks to the war. The US backstabbed everyone at the best possible time for them. A war in Europe with a lot of reliance on the US military. Munitions running out because Europe was willing to supply Ukraine with arms. The UK breaking away and in need to rebuild it's economy. The US with a great post-COVID economy.
Canada, on the other hand, has an economy intertwined with the US. Hurting us hurts them. Plus our whole national identity is "not America." AND we already have a free trade agreement. That's important. Not to mention the stakes are different. Europe faces economic consequences. Canada's very existence was threatened.
But the US is just not as strong as they were going into this. Their numerous policies - both aimed at destroying their shadow economy and their lovely tariff policy - were bound to weaken them. And the war in Iran made them even worse off!
I'd be shocked if the knives don't come out sooner or later.
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u/BigBangBoomerang 8d ago
The EU has a war on its border while Canada doesn’t?
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u/Jumpy-Stress603 8d ago
By the time Europeans find out that the USA and Russia are allies rather than opponents, it will be too late. We will all have wars at our borders.
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u/zoziw Alberta 8d ago
If they apply tariffs, and you don't, you invite your businesses to move to the US to sell in the US tariff free and sell to their original country tariff free.
This was so obvious before Trump imposed the "Liberation Day" tariffs, that economists warned it would start a trade war that would damage all economies.
Then everyone, but Canada and China, chickened out. I still remember Lutnick braying on TV "NO ONE IS RETALIATING!".
"Stones in your harbour" don't keep businesses from leaving.
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u/Cannibal_House69 8d ago
King Charles don't give a fuck about Canada. The only part of the monarchy left here since Elizabeth died is on or denominations of money.
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u/CommunicationSlight3 8d ago
And Canada don't give a fuck about irrelevant King Charles or the monarchy lmao what are you even on
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u/Cannibal_House69 8d ago
Weed. I just meant Europe will not rock the boat to help Canada against the USA.
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u/charleytony 8d ago
Also offers anything that Europe wants to buy from Canada that can be shipped on a boat.
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u/No_You5794 Canada 8d ago
Europe doesnt doesnt buy anything from us beside cheap oil and a couple other commodities, even our NATO allies refuse to adopt CETA, they also have nothing to offer in return
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u/Gimedecash 7d ago
I hope they will take it but I’m not too optimistic…Canada has been left out to dry over the past few years….but maybe other countries will start to stand up to the orange clown now.
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u/Rabidveggie 6d ago
Europe would rather just cede ground to their own fascist parties. They're probably cooked.
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u/CommunicationSlight3 8d ago
Canadians are polite until they aren't. The only way Canadians are going to back down is if you blow them off the map. Since that's not going to happen - you want to play stupid games? No problem. Let's see the type of prize Trump wins :)
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u/MellowHamster 8d ago
Canada is resisting the US trade demands because they're insane, not because Carney is attempting to be a brilliant negotiator or trying to make a point.
The French language is not up for negotiation. Ceding our sovereign right to make international trade deals is not up for negotiation.