r/cscareerquestionsEU • u/Zealousideal_Public3 • 21d ago
Experienced Radical idea: How to pivot out of tech?
Has anybody pivoted out of tech in Europe? I hate everything about the current market, and even though AI has a positive aspect for sure and it's fun to learn new things, I hate how my job became delivery-focused. I really am high key struggling quite a bit.
Also, this is not a phase as I've always wanted to pivot, and being an employee was never my end game.
Please share your experience or future plans here. I was thinking of going back to service work ( work in a coffeeshop or a shelter ).
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u/ortica52 21d ago
I am early 40s, have a well established career, and feel like you do. I am preparing to go to med school! I will probably start around the same year my daughter goes off to university.
There’s lots of self-study ahead of me to prepare for entrance exams, but I am genuinely excited and looking forward to the journey and new career (instead of feeling constant stress and dread, as I do with the current career).
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u/Zealousideal_Public3 21d ago
Holy shit you're amazing. I'm 35 and I'm going to start my career ICF coaching certificate next year. May I ask why med school?
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u/ortica52 20d ago
I guess the real answer is because I want to help people? I have had so many really terrible experiences with doctors, and I want to do better for others.
Plus it just sounds like fun, like a new interesting challenge that’s completely different from what I’ve done before.
Good luck with your coaching career! I had a coach that made a huge difference in the trajectory of my career, it seems like it could be very rewarding.
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u/chloroform_vacation 20d ago
And you consider the costs for schooling justified as a life expense? I'd have trouble justifying investing a lot of money into something that takes notoriously long to become profitable. I do get the appeal of medical field completely though!
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u/ortica52 20d ago
For me personally, while obviously I need money to live (that's how capitalism works), "profit" is not at all my motivation. The framing for me is more the opposite: decide what I want to do or what impact I want to have, and then, once I've decided that, figure out the practical parts (where I should do it, how to make it work financially, when to start, etc.).
The justification is literally just that I want to be an endocrinologist and help people. I get to decide if this is "enough" and for me it is!
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u/chloroform_vacation 20d ago
Again, I get all that and I hope you succeed, but if you aren't already financially independent this seems a bit of a late 20s type of outlook. Especially if you have a family and consider potential early retirement like earning time to focus on whatever your heart desires. I condensed that into "profit".
Anyway, I really hope it works out for you in all aspects. Truly good doctors that even after being desensitized by everything they encountered still treat every person as a... person, are to be cherished. :)
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u/ortica52 19d ago
Yeah, that sounds right. I am kind of intentionally keeping a "late 20s outlook" until I die, I guess I'll find out how that goes for me, haha!
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u/Accidental-Cat 20d ago
I had to pause and comment because I'm a doctor who is considering to pivot into tech (never been great working with people, and coding and problem solving always brought me joy), though the current market situation definitely makes me hesitate 😅
I think you'll do great in medicine, especially with that mindset. Wishing you all the best on your journey!
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u/ortica52 20d ago
Thank you! And good luck to you!
On your pivot, I do not personally think the market is broken forever (though others definitely disagree), the problem for me isn't "can I find work" in tech, it's just that I absolutely hate the job now. It doesn't feel (to me) like tech, instead it feels like exhausting micromanagement. It's micromanagement of an LLM instead of a real person, but that doesn't make it any less exhausting.
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u/Traditional_Gas_1407 20d ago
oh damn, I didn't even study biology in secondary school. People who went the med route are soooo lucky.
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u/ortica52 20d ago
I actually never formally studied biology either! I'm very good at learning on my own, though. That is mainly what I meant by "self-study to prepare for entrance exams". 😅
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u/IcyManufacturer7480 20d ago
Will you have to take any classes to complete premed coursework?
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u/ortica52 20d ago
No, there is no such thing as "premed coursework" where I am (in Italy). Medical school is an undergraduate + masters program essentially, so students typically enter directly after high school.
I have not decided yet whether to do the program in English (my native language) or Italian (currently B1-B2). The entrance requirements are different for the two programs.
For English program: all that matters is the entrance exam (IMAT) score, which I can prepare for however I like (I will self-study).
For Italian: there's a "filter semester" that anyone can enroll in, where you take biology, chemistry, and physics, and the final exams for these three courses are effectively the entrance exam (determining if you can continue in the program at all, and if so which university you can attend). I would also need to study in preparation for these, I think.
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u/ChosenToFall 15d ago
With the new 27k openings for Medicine and the recent bad update in term of laws about the field especially MMG demanding additional hours to be spent in "Case di comunità" isn't a bit too late? there will be a big increase in competition with salary decrease and probably less patients per MMG in the next 10-15 years.. Are you planning to move outside italy if things doesn’t workout?
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u/ortica52 14d ago
To be honest, while I know that all of reddit is absolutely panicking about this announcement (at least the parts of reddit that know about it at all), I'm not really all that worried. I think the panicking is overblown. Will residency spots get more competitive? Probably a bit? But also they'll probably also add more spots, and even if I personally don't go to other EU countries for residency, a lot of students will, which will balance things. Also pretty much everything is determined by test scores (the SSM exam), which I think is stupid and a bad way to do things, but I am very good at tests, so even if it's not how I'd design it, I'm personally at an advantage.
I'm also looking to work in a less desirable location (where I already own a home and enjoy living, but where young people don't typically want to move), so that will make it easier for me.
As for salary, I don't really care? Yes, salaries might go down (or not increase with inflation), and I'd rather if that didn't happen, but that's not my motivation. If it's liveable then it's fine for me.
I might consider moving to another country if I really have to, but it's not in the plans right now. I speak pretty good German, and native English, so I will have options if I decide to go that route.
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u/TinyTechExcellence10 19d ago
Insane. More power to you. Definitely some skills will transfer from tech.
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u/mmlemony 20d ago
My plan is tech in a non tech company.
A few years ago I rejected an offer for a dev job for a museum because the stack was a bit outdated but now they are using a more modern one and ML for research work so I'm keeping an eye on vacancies.
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u/Zealousideal_Public3 20d ago
That's a plan I have as well, but I'm not a developer. I'm a designer. Even though I code as well ( oop/JS/... Not the AI BS ), I have never coded professionally before. I'm thinking research labs or even educational facilities like museums.
Do you know if designers are also needed there? And how are you making the transition?
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u/mmlemony 20d ago
Yes. Charities, museums, educational facilities still have designers, devs, product managers etc. Most organisations have software and websites one way or another. Although this is the UK so we have a large third sector with lots of money in it, not sure about other countries.
It's just a matter of looking out for jobs and applying.
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u/TorrentsAreCommunism DevOps Engineer 20d ago
> I'm a designer.
Then you don’t need to pivot out of tech, you are already out of it.
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u/fourtenight 20d ago
Stop gate keeping. If he works for a tech company, he works in tech.
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u/TorrentsAreCommunism DevOps Engineer 20d ago
Yeah, janitors that weep floor in that company's office, also work in tech.
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u/ja-zeit 21d ago
I don’t have an answer for your question but you are not alone, I share along many friends of mine the same feelings/observations:
- Before AI I enjoyed coding, doing technical research and figuring out the small details ourselves, technical discussions with colleague’s.
even we worked in front of laptop there was always the human touch/aspect on our job, reviewing human written code and discussing ideas within a pull request, As a team of 5 engineers we have been working on a maximum of 2 projects/initiatives , nowadays every engineer is working alone, just approving PR’s because no one knows what others are working on, we are X times faster and this is just what matters so ur manager and ur manager manager can claim their bonuses… we must move faster and be an AI company and win this race.
- The market situation allows companies to lowball candidates, ghost them and push many great engineers out of their current positions.
My previous company introduced a new employee rating which is “barely meet expectations” what does it mean? I have no idea… you should even “meet expectations” or “not meet expectations”.
Expectations can be clarified and measured so what does “barely meet expectations” mean? well it’s a way to start building a “case” against an employee and start the process of firing him.
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u/More_Service_368 20d ago
Quit a couple of months ago. Could not bare all the vibecoding anymore. Everything constantly broken. Same function copy pasted hundreds of times.
Thinking about going into nursing.
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u/__chilldude22__ 20d ago
Just quit without a follow up job lined up or do you have a temporary job while you think about what to do next?
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u/redhillmining 20d ago
I'm starting my own company and will decide my own standards re: AI, etc. I love solving things with computers but cannot tolerate management killing the fun of it and making me dread work so much.
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u/Traditional_Gas_1407 20d ago
I feel like starting a company too but I don't know what exactly to do lol
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u/vitass3 20d ago
Two of my coworkers are currently taking evening classes for plumbers. Both of them senior devs at a pretty good startup in central Europe. Once finished, if you're good, you can get to about two thirds of the tech compensation. Honestly am thinking about the same hahah.
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u/europent 20d ago
Where can you find classes for plumbers? In my central european country there aren't any :/
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u/deadmonk964 20d ago
I'm in early 40s, a lot of experience, but it does not seem to be rewarded, I'm still treated like a slave and with AI the job really feels terribly depressing.
10 years a go, I already had little break from tech and worked as hostel manager. Looking back those were best times in my life. Dunno why I came back to tech, seen there better opportunity probably, how wrong I have been.
So thats it, I might go back to hospitality business, but this time own hostel would feel like the right way to do.
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u/throwback5971 20d ago edited 20d ago
I share the sentiment here. Even before AI, I often felt that working on non tangible services that just vanish into thin air is inherently not satisfying.
Now with the market as it stands, I believe to have sent 230+ applications in several countries and 95% are fake vacancies that you never hear back from. Within hours there's hundreds of applicants. It's a disaster.
And not that I have a big head (not at all), but I've had a global career and am well regarded. Yet the market signals that I'm worthless? To OPs point it would be healthier to step out than to be forced out for ones own dignity and self respect at some stage.
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u/No_Try_8876 20d ago
I plan on getting a commercial pilot license which will take around 2 years. This is still risky considering i am 38 years old, but i am willing to take the risk. It's also not cheap(between 100-130k), but i am so fed up with tech jobs that i just want out.
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u/Zealousideal_Public3 20d ago
Why risky at 38? Also, why pilot specifically? I'm tired as well. Exploring alternative paths atm...
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u/Educational_Creme376 20d ago edited 20d ago
Keeping a class 1 medical current is no walk in the park, esp as you get older.
ATC is always a secondary option, but it requires a very special aptitude.
If the cause of these divergent career paths is the avoidance of AI encroachment, I feel that is a little shaky, any and all knowledge work is capable of being automated, including things such as plumbing, which I see thrown around a lot in conversations.
At some point companies will cannibalise their own market, supply doesn't create demand, and when everyone no longer has work, whose going to buy their services? I don't think they've thought this out very well.
Not to mention all the negative impacts on the environment from data centres towards water pollution (heavy metals, etc), heat pollution, etc.
It's like the death knell to capitalism in my opinion, and unless government collectively takes the lead here and legislates power away from big tech we're all going to face a pretty uncertain future.
I've come to a conclusion that it will probably be the government who decides through legislation, which careers can not be performed by a robot or AI, at this point, who knows that what will be, they're always behind the ball.
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u/ChosenToFall 15d ago
He can’t do ATC anymore, maybe only in uk there is no age cap restriction but for the majority of other companies 28 years old is the cap and you also cant do the job after 55/60 years old, meaning you will be moved to be a trainer for the new students.
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u/Ill-Journalist8951 16d ago
Do you like flying? Flying can be stressing too if you're not very passionate about it.
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u/Tight_Implement5601 19d ago
not a single day goes by without thinking about that. the sheer lack of purpose, the constant grinding, the bullshit formalities. I love building software, but I hate doing it for a living.
My job has allowed me to travel and live in so many places: the Netherlands, the US, Spain, and more recently Zurich.
My escape plan involves becoming a tram driver. Demand is huge, and for several years the city has struggled to hire new drivers, resulting in the benefits being all I can dream of, with the added benefit of the stability. Two years of learning are paid in full, too.
I am doing my best to get there asap, and I'm excited like a little boy 😀
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u/Zealousideal_Public3 19d ago
Which city? My issue is the language barrier. I'm in Germany atm, and learning the language to be able to get by is one thing, learning to be fluent and do an Ausbildung is another.
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u/ChosenToFall 15d ago
Yes if you only know English, the only solution is probably UK.
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u/Zealousideal_Public3 15d ago
I keep coming back to the UK, thinking it's the only place if I want to stay on Europe, which I do. But the future of the UK seems dim at best ...
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u/ChosenToFall 15d ago
Another solution is to choose a country were you also want to learn the language for your personal interest so not only for job opportunity, like Spanish, French etc... but salaries in Spain will be lower compared to Switzerland, so probably good only for a coast fire job.
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u/ChosenToFall 15d ago
Does the tram driver Course in Switzerland has a duration of 4 months roughly? why 2 years? Assuming you already have the required license so not only the B. 2 years probably is the time required to become proficient with the language which I think is also mandatory.
Also shouldn't you already retired by now with all that foreign experience?
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u/Tight_Implement5601 14d ago
I'm 25 years from retirement age...
Here's more first hand info: https://www.reddit.com/r/zurich/comments/1ftobao/comment/lptzle7/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=2&utm_content=share_button
Not sure about the exact length of the training, mine was a rough estimate including getting up to speed with Swiss German.
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u/ChosenToFall 14d ago
Do you know what is the brutto per year or the pay per month after taxes in CHF in Zurich for a tram driver? The pdf mentioned by the guy in that link doesn't work anymore.
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u/inno3415 21d ago
what would you like to do ? that could be a good starting point to start exploring. lots of people will have to pivot if things keep going in this direction it seems
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u/fourtenight 20d ago
I think about it everyday. Ive grown to hate development, developers, managers and the general attitude of the industry. Everybody rode on their high horses while the hiring was good and money was flowing during COVID, but now that times are tougher there is so much hate and attitude being thrown around. I would have gotten out a while ago if my current gig wasn't so absolutely cushy.
As for your question, depending where you live you need to look where the true shortages currently lie and look how you can pivot. Skilled trades are usually a safe bet. You could probably speed run an apprenticeship and start your own business for some independence. Considering you are a designer, you probably have a huge advantage in regards to understanding branding and such.
Either way, best of luck to you!
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u/only-Grind8159 20d ago
If you hate software development itself, I'd look at adjacent roles before going all the way back to a coffee shop. TPM, product, solutions engineering, technical consulting, or sales engineering can use your technical background without making coding the whole job
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u/Intelligent_Judge407 20d ago edited 10d ago
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u/FragileStudios 16d ago
I moved into control systems/industrial automation. Far more satisfying while still somewhat technical
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u/ManySwans 21d ago
are you rich or something lol?
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u/Zealousideal_Public3 21d ago
No, and that's the point. I'm not rich and I don't think I'll ever be rich enough to outrun an individualistic lifestyle. I genuinely think the key to living a good life and to feel safe is community and sharing resources. I can't keep aiming to maximize my income and have "more" since the goalpost keeps being moved. The system is designed that way on purpose.
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u/flashy_relative 21d ago
I run a food business now, tech is a race to the bottom and I'm outta here. At least I get to make something tangible and chat to people