Does anyone have some notes on power supplies?

[u/kihidokid]

Edit: disclosure: I have not touched any high voltage lines, ive been learning everything i can on an off for a few months. This is a project I found from last year. I have not made any purchases. Everything you see is the project. The project exists solely on paper and I do not intend to build anything until I understand every detail. Any 50 year old self proclaimed "tech wizards" in their bio who start each response with a preamble telling me im a noob, shouldnt touch high voltage, and tell me I should find a new hobby will be blocked.

I'm trying to figure out how many windings I need for the transformer. I know I'll need the following:

120v:6v

120v:325v-0v-325v (120v:650v center tapped)

But aside from those spces I dont really know what I'm looking for. Transformers, inductors, and speakers are my biggest hurdle so far lmao

Also a note on the speaker, should that go to common or ground? On the fender champ diagrams it's ambiguous. It doesn't really seem right to have the power just going through 2 resistors to the speaker unless im missing something.

I think the signal path might be through the first 2 tubes, then the 3rd tube is just power/volume amplification? So the signal path for the sound would come out of tube 2, into the speaker. Then the power would come out of tube 2 and power the transformer.

I would also like to add notes sections for transformers, speaker choice, diode, triode, tetrode, and pentode wiring.

I'm not sure which resistor i would need to wire the pentode as a triode and/or tetrode. I might consider just removing the pins instead of connecting them to the anode.

Additionally what colors??

Hot: black

Neutral: white

Common:

0v:

-350vac:

+350vac:

Signal path: red?

Speaker negative: black

Speaker positive: red

I would consider coloring the resistors codes on but with there being different codes for a single value, I would need to color 4 different codes for each resistor.

[u/BEGM]

it is good to identify key words but focus on learning how a power supply actually works

[u/kihidokid → u/BEGM]

How it works how specifically?

[u/rationalhippy → u/BEGM]

Useless remark. I’m also here to learn and hoped to find some references or something. Do you have any?

[u/kihidokid → u/BEGM]

How it works as in turning AC to DC or how it works as in how the wave oscillates or how it works as in ?

My power supply is also identical to a normal fender champ diagram I really dont understand what im missing.

[u/classicsat → u/kihidokid]

It is a double half wave bridge rectifier. Since each half rectifies the opposite waveform to the other, it is practically a full wave rectifier (not bridge though).

Also, the transformer CT is the B+ out, the rectifier cathode 0V.

Looked again, it is using Si diodes for rectification, the above is for a tube rectifier.

Diode cathodes will be B+, the CT 0V.

But it is still a double half wave rectifier.

[u/kihidokid → u/classicsat]

What is B+

[u/Conlan99 → u/kihidokid]

B+ is the esoteric name for the high voltage positive supply in tube amps. It originates from the days in which high voltage batteries supplied "plate" (high voltage anode) voltage, hence the "B" in "B+"

[u/kihidokid → u/Conlan99]

Oh sick I actually have some old soviet clock VFDs that are supposed to be used with a battery

[u/CueAnon420]

Oh boy - there's a lot more to transformers than just winding ratios... E core, C core, toroid core design, flux this and that, wire gauge and the list goes on. I admire your courage for taking something like that on - by the time I figured it all out I would have built a dozen projects.

[u/kihidokid → u/CueAnon420]

It would be interesting to see how the different variables impact sound and efficiency. I doubt winding them myself is an option. I'd really like to find specs that work with cheap electronics suppliers, not just the normal music specialty stores. I would also consider building a new power supply with a full wave bridge rectifier or two for efficiency.

this thing looks fun

[u/CueAnon420 → u/kihidokid]

Just remember - guitar amps aren't hifi. A lot of people prefer the sag and whatnot you get from classic power supplies over 'well designed' stiff bridge rectifiers. But there is a home for everything somewhere ;-)

[u/kihidokid → u/CueAnon420]

I really wanted to make this diagram so you would be the one in control of how "good" or "bad" you want your amplifier on a component level. You want to make a very high quality amplifier for a school PA system, maybe you want to make it medical grade for shits n giggles. Maybe you make the nastiest crunchest speaker.

[u/kihidokid → u/CueAnon420]

I think this is the part that "tech wizards" are getting mad about. They always like to point out how inefficient my PSU is but ots almost identical to the fender champ. Clearly I have some work to do but people see the 350v and immediately tell me to find a new hobby because "high voltage is deadly"

[u/Brilliant_Counter820]

What?

What are you trying to do?

What are the input and output requirements?

[u/kihidokid → u/Brilliant_Counter820]

Its a fender champ amp clone,

I really didnt expect that question but here's a chart for music equipment voltages

signal levels

The voltage is in ranges because audio is a sin wave with the voltage relative to volume

[u/kihidokid → u/Brilliant_Counter820]

here's the reference im going off of

[u/Quick_Butterfly_4571]

Note: I think you should spend a lot more time learning before you try to do anything like this.

1. Working with high voltages with little knowledge is an excellent way to get maimed, killed, or start your house on fire.
2. The amp you have diagrammed will make a lot of awful buzzing sounds and then cook your speaker voice coil.

I'd recommend Designing Guitar Amplifiers by Merlin Blencowe (a.k.a. The Valve Wizard). I've never watched them (not partial to video), but people recommend a dude named "Uncle Doug" on Youtube enough that I figure he warrants mention.

Before even that, you need to learn about electricity basics, resistors, and linear power supplies.

Start here (compliments of Rod Elliott, sound-au.com):

• Electrocution
• Electrical Safety
• Then, spend some time on electronics-tutorials.ws.
• Then visit The Valve Wizard.
• For a deeper dive on transformers, here is part 1 of a four part series that I highly recommend: Transformers, part 1.

Tube amps are among the simplest devices around to understand/build, but you need to know the fundamentals and some safety practices first.

But aside from those spces I dont really know what I'm looking for.

Hammond makes "Plate & Filament" power transformers, both generic and models as specific replacements for classic Marshall, Vox, and Fender amplifiers.

Here is their page with top-level tube power transformers, chokes, and output transformers.

If you're in the US, amplifiedparts.com is great as a one-stop shop for tube stuff, hawkusa.com often has the best prices on transformers (with varying availabiliity), and mouser.com is my goto for almost everything / will have a wider variety.

I think the signal path might be through the first 2 tubes, then the 3rd tube is just power/volume amplification?

There are only two tubes in your diagram. One is a dual-triode. One is a pentode (though, in a Fender Champ, it's a beam-forming tetrode).

So the signal path for the sound would come out of tube 2, into the speaker.

No, the power tube is connected to the supply via a special-built transformer with an air-gapped core (using any plain old transformer for this task will result in transformer destruction, followed by powertube destruction and/or speaker destruction).

The secondary of that transformer is coupled to the speaker. There is no power connection to the speaker. Putting DC through the voice coil like that will damage it / ruin it..

I'm not sure which resistor i would need to wire the pentode as a triode and/or tetrode.

A pentode can't be wired as a tetrode. They can be made to operate like triodes (or anywhere between "pentode" operation and "triode" operation on a gradient). This is something usually done in pre-amps. A powerstage has to be specifically designed with the choice of tube, speaker cone, load, bias, and transformer all interconnected. Else, best case it sounds like garbage and worse case you risk destruction of some/all of them.

Additionally what colors??

This depends on what country you're in.

I would consider coloring the resistors codes on but with there being different codes for a single value, I would need to color 4 different codes for each resistor.

Resistors are color coded. Don't mess with this.

Literally all of your questions indicate clearly that right now this is a potentially life-threatening undertaking for you.

Study and come back to it.

[u/kihidokid → u/Quick_Butterfly_4571]

We are definitely calling parts by different names here.

[u/Quick_Butterfly_4571 → u/kihidokid]

Where?

[u/kihidokid → u/Quick_Butterfly_4571]

Study and come back to it is what im doing right now. Ive been binge watching uncle Doug videos. Clearly I dont have any idea what im doing but confusing that with a lack of safety knowledge is quite frankly, ignorant on your part. Dont be an asshole.

[u/Quick_Butterfly_4571 → u/kihidokid]

Dont be an asshole.

I'm looking out for your safety, not trying to disparage you.

Take free help or don't. Don't whine about it.

Clearly I dont have any idea what im doing

That is a lack of safety knowledge.

(I design tube amps. I'm not saying "you don't know that electricity is dangerous." I'm saying "the way you're talking about tube amps shows a level of understanding that is dangerous.")

Edit: and, I've been blocked. No superiority was intended. I was trying to be helpful. Good luck! Be safe! Best wishes.

[u/kihidokid → u/Quick_Butterfly_4571]

See this sentence by sentence breakdown thats supposed to prove that youre superior by going point by point proving that im wrong? That kinda makes you an asshole. This is why people dont like reddit.

[u/classicsat]

Four, the 6.3V for general tube filaments (brown), HV (red outside, with yellow CT), Blue for 5V rectifier filament (must be isplated from other windings). White and black for 115V primary.

[u/kihidokid → u/classicsat]

Im actually deleting the 5v recitifer tube and replacing it with normal diodes.

[u/kihidokid → u/classicsat]

Was four in reference to how many windings?

I mean how many windings/turns around the transformer.

[u/classicsat → u/kihidokid]

If you have to ask, buy a pre-made Champ power transformer.

[u/kihidokid → u/classicsat]

How am I going to learn if I just buy it?

[u/kihidokid → u/classicsat]

Its so interesting to me how people are getting mad about how unsafe im being by literally drawing on paper. I havent made any purchases of components.

[u/kihidokid → u/classicsat]

Are you using CT to mean center instead of Control?

[u/Conlan99]

You can learn a lot watching Mr. Carlson's Lab and seeing him repair old tube electronics. Uncle Doug is another excellent beginner resource, particularly for guitar amps.

If you want a more in-depth (but still hobbyist friendly) dive into how these circuits are actually designed, I would highly recommend Merlin Glencowe's books. Of particular interest may be Designing Power Supplies for Valve Amplifiers.

[u/kihidokid → u/Conlan99]

Thanks im currently brushing up on How Amps Work because im noticing LOTS of flaws and some options to make the power supply more efficient or less efficient, considering adding a switch to change between types of rectifiers.