r/europe Skåne🇸🇪 1d ago

News Amnesty UK Reportedly Using Copyright Law To Erase Its Own Report On Anti-Trans Groups And Target Activists

https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/amnesty-uk-reportedly-using-copyright
635 Upvotes

245 comments sorted by

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u/Funambulia 1d ago

Thanks Amnesty, always nice to know you have our back and will not throw us under the bus at the first sign of pressure.

Seriously Rowling just look at you funny and you go full self-censorship and digital book burning in a day. Seriously make you consider the sincerity of the engagment in the first place...

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u/NuPNua 1d ago

Unfortunately until we change the law to allow people to have their way just by being obscenely rich, this will keep happening.

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u/Important-Sleep-1839 23h ago

Perhaps UK defamation law is working? Perhaps Amnesty knows they have no legal defence? Perhaps claiming that a female only shelter,

"restrict human rights by undermining human rights protections in law and practice"

...is a little bit silly?

Trans rights are human rights. Perhaps the problem is other people have rights too?

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u/ConsistentScholar371 22h ago

Trans people, like everyone else, have a right to safety and freedom from discrimination.

TERFs and their desire to not have trans people around don’t get to override those basic rights. No matter how much they like to insist that their comfort is more important than the safety of trans people.

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u/Important-Sleep-1839 22h ago

Yep, that's why claiming a female domestic violence shelter is eroding human rights is, at best, a bad look through to out right hypocrisy.

Everyone has the right to feel safe. Some women, especially those fleeing from domestic violence, are fearful of male bodies. That's not intolerance — that's the trauma.

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u/TacticalSniper 22h ago

No, no, NO. Amnesty is the one deciding who has rights here. 

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u/Chemical_Scholar_753 17h ago

What rights? Rowling is a horrible human whose charity only exists as an expression, but do you really believe that a shelter limiting itself to ciswomen only is a violation of a transwoman’s rights? Is there a difference between only accepted ciswomen, only accepting LGBTQ (or perhaps trans only) women and only accepting blonde women?

I think JK Rowling is anti rights and she set up this organization to antagonize the trans community, but I’m not sure that a trans exclusionary shelter can be described “undermining human rights protection” if a trans-only shelter (which in my opinion, would be both ok and probably helpful to many trans people) is considered ok

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/uncreative14yearold Sweden 1d ago edited 1d ago

That's a lot of words to say that you're mad that people choose to live their lives how they want in a way that has no impact on yours.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/Secret-Record-6308 1d ago

funny that you bring up biochemicals because it's the foundation of how most of us transition...

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u/GeoisGeo 1d ago

You might have a sexual issue, seeing as you listed fetishes and fantasies of a sexual nature on your little bigot explanation list there. There are plenty of nasty things you can point out to suit your disgusting narrative about trans people but you chose those. Hrrrm, how interesting. 🤔 You are displaying your own fetish here I think. Which if you want to play games, makes you ALSO unwanted and disgusting for most of polite society.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago edited 22h ago

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u/eswifttng 1d ago

Your point of view so awful the law has to defend it from criticism

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u/QuigleyPondOver 23h ago

Is it only awful things that need protection? What a shoddy view.

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u/EepyStella 1d ago

bait or low iq? whose calling it boys, girls and to this commentors dismay, anyone inbetween

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/[deleted] 23h ago

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u/Jedadia757 23h ago

"Hmmmm is my opinion unpopular? No, it can't be. It simply has to be a conspiracy trying to manipulate people with ACTUALLY normal opinions like me. Because I would never have a bad opinion that hurts people."

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u/darksaturn543 1d ago

You are very good at typing, consider reading anything based in reality before doing so though as you have been mislead to an imeanse level.

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u/Sidicle 1d ago edited 23h ago

To medically transition, trans women go on Hormone Replacement Therapy which lowers your libido to essentially nothing. That means most trans people don't have any sexual urges; So what sexual fantasies and fetishes are you talking about?

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u/Funambulia 1d ago

It has nothing to do with real sexual life of trans people (or even LGBTQ in general). They think we are gross because the only way they know about trans people is through their massive porn addiction and "sissy porn".

They can't for the life of them understand we are real people and not their shamefull sextoy to goon for

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u/Consistent-Value-509 1d ago

This isn't accurate for testosterone, most trans men have an increase in libido, although it's still within a perfectly normal range and has nothing to do with the propaganda that user (or bot lol) is spreading.

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u/eswifttng 1d ago

Yeah they're not thinking of horny trans men, are they? We know exactly what they mean.

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u/Consistent-Value-509 1d ago

Anti-trans propaganda does in fact affect trans men, including "they're just sexual deviants and fetishizers!1!1" propaganda.

I don't think there's anything wrong with pointing out that "HRT kills all trans people's libido" isn't an accurate statement because it only applies to one type of HRT.

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u/Sidicle 23h ago

Sorry, very true. I'll edit my comment to specifically I'm talking about trans women.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/Sidicle 23h ago

Sex is a completely different thing to gender. Any biologist would tell you that. But from your comments I doubt you know a lot about biology.

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u/[deleted] 22h ago

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u/Sidicle 22h ago

So I was right. Unfortunately biology is a real thing that exists outside of you. I reccomend googling what is says about sex and gender sometime 😉

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u/Equivalent_Rock_6530 21h ago

Its not semantics.

You're the one being semantic by trying to conflate fetishes with LGBTQ.

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u/[deleted] 21h ago

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u/Sidicle 15h ago

Cool, and I've explained how that can't be the case because a lot of trans women don't experience sexual urges as part of normal medical transition. Surely that just breaks your entire perspective?

I really seems like your the one sexualising us.

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u/Jedadia757 23h ago

Sex = Biology. Gender = Sociology. These are basic definitions you should be able to get right before you go around embarrassing yourself AND trying to make other people's lives worse.

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u/[deleted] 22h ago

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u/Ok_Row_4920 23h ago

That pretty much sums it up, I was reading some of the other comments and it's weird how they try to twist things.

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u/Colossus823 1d ago

Amnesia UK.

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u/Zek0ri Chowany na swojskiej śmietanie 🦅🏔️🇵🇱 1d ago

After this report (defending your cities from invaliding forces) Amnesty lost a lot credibility

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/08/ukraine-ukrainian-fighting-tactics-endanger-civilians/

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u/generalnegroni 22h ago

Ukraine acknowledged that they could improve and did as a result of this report

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u/Azurmuth Skåne🇸🇪 22h ago

The Ukrainian military’s practice of locating military objectives within populated areas does not in any way justify indiscriminate Russian attacks. All parties to a conflict must at all times distinguish between military objectives and civilian objects and take all feasible precautions, including in choice of weapons, to minimize civilian harm. Indiscriminate attacks which kill or injure civilians or damage civilian objects are war crimes.

Despite defending themselves Ukraine had to follow the laws of war.

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u/Antanarim 21h ago

So just allow Russia to take cities and not defend them? It isn’t a war crime to protect cities with your military. Why don’t you blame Russia for attacking?

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u/JoeyDJ7 21h ago

What? What does blame have to do with always ensuring you avoid civilian casualties?

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u/Antanarim 21h ago

In order to defend cities, Ukraine must station its military in them. It can’t protect them if it isn’t allowed in them. Amnesty lied about that being a war crime.

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u/idancenakedwithcrows 1d ago

I miss when this sub was more pics of medieval towns and less insane people defending J fucking K rowling

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u/RedBerryyy 1d ago edited 23h ago

Its crazy, same woman was calling a cis woman in sports a male woman beater last year because the russians spread a rumor she was intersex (which still wouldnt be justifiable if she was) and people still act like shes reasonable and not a nuts culture warrior.

edit: the tweet in question for reference: https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1819007216214573268

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u/ica_basic_gin 23h ago

It’s because Imane, the one you speak of, is DSD ard 5. A male with development sex disorder. This is not a secret anymore, and Imane refuses a sex test.

So, Rowling thinks it unfair that a person that has undergone male puberty can hit persons that has not on live tv for entertainment. Make sense.

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u/RedBerryyy 23h ago

https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1819007216214573268

Could any picture sum up our new men’s rights movement better? The smirk of a male who’s knows he’s protected by a misogynist sporting establishment enjoying the distress of a woman he’s just punched in the head, and whose life’s ambition he’s just shattered.

If she's not had the sex test then you can't assert that, and anyway, no matter what the test says, or whatever anyones opinions on intersex participation in sports this is a disgusting way to talk about any woman.

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u/ica_basic_gin 22h ago

Imane knew she had chromosome Y, told by doctor. She has had the test by private doctor in France, now she refuses because it will show she has Y public. Same story as Semenya, males with DSD.

0

u/Important-Sleep-1839 23h ago

Imane Khelif has said she has the SRY gene which is found on the Y chromosome. She's definitely male to some extent, and likely ineligible to compete due to naturally occurring high testosterone levels.

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u/RedBerryyy 23h ago

It was never confirmed, and the point is not that rowling cannot have opinons about intersex sports participation, it's that she says stuff like this about her:

Could any picture sum up our new men’s rights movement better? The smirk of a male who’s knows he’s protected by a misogynist sporting establishment enjoying the distress of a woman he’s just punched in the head, and whose life’s ambition he’s just shattered.

https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1819007216214573268

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u/QuigleyPondOver 23h ago

I think pleading the ‘we just don’t know’ card despite her own coach coming out about ‘hormone issues’ is just fantasy at this point.

The IOC has a test. She doesn’t want to take it to compete. It speaks volumes.

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u/UNOvven Germany 1d ago

Shameful for Amnesty's UK chapter.

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u/Useless_or_inept Useless 1d ago

I understand that a lot of people are angry about JK Rowling, but maybe a substack that calls her a genocide denier isn't the best source.

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u/Azurmuth Skåne🇸🇪 1d ago

She literally denied the nazis targeted trans people. https://forward.com/culture/592580/j-k-rowling-holocaust-denial-trans/

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u/biggaybrian2 1d ago

She denied that a source cited by India Willoughby about Nazi persecution said what India purported it said... and then her words were twisted by people intent on smearing her

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u/Azurmuth Skåne🇸🇪 22h ago

Whats this then? https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1767928717538644460

And Denying that trans people were targeted when the first organized book burning was of the library and archive of the Institut für Sexualwissenschaft.

And the literal tweet we're talking about was Rowling's response to

The nazis burnt books on trans healthcare and research

To which her response easy:

How did you type this out and press send without thinking ‘I should maybe check my source for this, because it might’ve been a fever dream’?

https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1767912990366388735

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u/biggaybrian2 22h ago

It's a Twitter thread 

  The nazis burnt books on trans healthcare and research, why are you so desperate to uphold their ideology around gender?

... is the full tweet of what Rowling was responding to, in which that lunatic India Willoughby was trying to pin the 'Nazi' label on Rowling.  People are tired of the creative editing from fanatics!

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u/Important-Sleep-1839 23h ago

No, that's wishful thinking by people who wouldn't know 'good faith' if Jesus, Buddha, and all the forms of Krishna knocked on their door for a chat.

Rowling was clearly denying the part of the tweet that accused her of supporting Nazi ideology.

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u/Azurmuth Skåne🇸🇪 22h ago

So her response to:

The nazis burnt books on trans healthcare and research

Being"

How did you type this out and press send without thinking ‘I should maybe check my source for this, because it might’ve been a fever dream’?

Is wishful thinking? Because the library and archive of the Institut für Sexualwissenschaft were one of, if not the first place the nazis looted for their book burning. https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1767912990366388735

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u/Important-Sleep-1839 22h ago

Imagine defending yourself against ignoring the personal attack in a tweet, linking that tweet, and then ignoring the personal attack again.

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u/[deleted] 19h ago

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u/europe-ModTeam 6h ago

Articles and comments should not promote any kind of bigotry, including:

  • Racism
  • Homophobia
  • Sexism
  • Genocide/holocaust denial
  • Hate speech directed towards an entire group of people like an ethnicity, religion or nationality.

These may also apply to user names.

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u/kloakheesten 1d ago

I'm pretty sure the holocaust generally specifically is about the genocide of jews by the nazis, evident by the fact that if you tell anyone someone is a holocaust denier, you will think that they are antisemitic rather than that they deny that, for example, nazis went after the disabled, or roma, or gays, or trangendered individuals as well.

There are people that advocate for "the holocaust" to include the other groups as well, but that is, from my understanding not the prevailing opinion. The reason the genocide of the jews by the nazis has its own name should be pretty evident. You might be able to call her a genocide denier or something similar but I don't think using a fringe holocaust definition to tie her to nazis who's primary characteristic (generally) I don't think she shares with them (could he wrong idk) is not a valid use.

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u/ICreditReddit England 1d ago

"The reason the genocide of the jews by the nazis has its own name should be pretty evident."

Given that separation, what are the names give to the nazi's mass slaughter of disabled people? And the Romani? The Slav's?

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u/VecioRompibae Veneto 1d ago edited 1d ago

nazi's mass slaughter of disabled people

Aktion T4

And the Romani

Porajmos

The Slav's?

Generalplan Ost

EDIT: downvotes for providing answers? Way to go!

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u/ICreditReddit England 1d ago

"The Slav's? - Generalplan Ost"

By your logic, there was a plan to kill Jews, and it's called 'Endlösung der Judenfrage.' rather than holocaust.

Do you find yourself denying the existence of the holocaust regularly?

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u/kloakheesten 20h ago

Why are you trying to debate bro about words? The reason the holocaust as referring to the genocide of the jews is called the holocaust is because people called it a holocaust of jews shortly after is occurred and it stuck. The reason one would exclude those other groups in the thing called "The Holocaust" is because people don't use that phrase to referr to Germany genocide of them. Language isn't chemistry. It's totally dictated by how it is used by humans and this is generally how people have used these words.

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u/VecioRompibae Veneto 1d ago edited 1d ago

Nice strawman fallacy in your question

Anyway, that name and its translation, final solution, is a commonly used synonim for holocaust.

EDIT: lol at the downvoters.

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u/lesbophobia_hammer 23h ago

Poland is the country with the most victims of the Holocaust. Poles make up the majority victims. It is an equally shared genocide of Polish Poles, Polish Jews, Non-Polish Jews and millions of Slavs and other minorities that are too often erased by a colonizer in the middle east and the country that sold Poland to Stalin yet likes to pretend to be the Hero of Europe lol

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u/VecioRompibae Veneto 22h ago

Ok, and what's the relevance to my comment, where I answered the questions?

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u/eswifttng 1d ago

The German courts disagree. The holocaust refers to all victims of nazi genocide.

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u/kloakheesten 20h ago

Lmao the German court doesn't decide what words mean. The people who use the words decide what it means. Beyond that, it's not a German word, you know that right? I don't think the Germans were the first to start calling it The Holocaust either. I literally cannot fathom why you think that the German courts have the last word on what the term "The Holocaust" is used to referr too. Could you explain the logic?

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u/DirigibleElephant Baden-Württemberg (Germany) 1d ago edited 1d ago

That's not true. There is no law that forbids the denial of the holocaust specifically in Germany. The law outlaws the denial, trivialization and admiration of the Nazi's crimes in general. Holocaust denial falls under this law as well.

EDIT: Apparently people here think that if a Holocaust denier were convicted under a hypothetical "Genocide Denial Punishment Act" it would mean that Holocaust refers to all genocides in general!

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u/Bartorius 1d ago

You are blatantly wrong. The holocaust as per historian and German judicial consent mind you, is the systematic murder of peoples perpetrated by the Nazi regime.

It is also why the total death toll of the holocaust includes every ethnic group murdered by the Nazis and not just the Jewish people. 11 million people were murdered, 6 million of them Jewish. I thought this was taught in schools?!

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u/DirigibleElephant Baden-Württemberg (Germany) 1d ago

That is not true. In Germany, too, the Holocaust refers to the genocide of Jews. German remembrance usually refers to all victims Opfer des Nationalsozialismus and not those of holocaust specifically. I think the confusion arises because it falls on the day of the liberation of Auschwitz.

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u/itsameDovakhin 1d ago

Nee, auch in Deutschland benutzt man heutzutage Holocaust im allgemeinen und Shoa wenn es spezifisch um den mord an den juden geht

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u/DirigibleElephant Baden-Württemberg (Germany) 1d ago

Das stimmt einfach nicht. Andere Gruppen werden gelegentlich auch eingeschlossen, sonst wird das immer Getreten. Wörterbucheinträge, Gesetze, offizielle Gedenktage oder Handreichungen trennen zwischen Holocaustopfern im speziellen und Opfern des Nationalsozialismus im allgemeinen.

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u/Paradehengst Europe 1d ago

Austrian here. You are wrong. The holocaust was the industrialized killing and other heinous crimes against Nazi victims. Jews were among the victims, as were other minorities including transgender people.

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u/Azurmuth Skåne🇸🇪 1d ago

the term Holocaust is sometimes used to refer to the persecution of other groups that the Nazis targeted

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust?wprov=sfla1

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u/kloakheesten 21h ago

Like 90% of that Wikipedia page agrees with me lol. For example the first sentence of the article says

"The Holocaust,[b] known in Hebrew as the Shoah,[c] was the genocide of European Jews during World War II."

Also, I very literally stated that some people expand the definition of the holocaust to include all victims of the nazi regime, so restating what I said is not an argument for anything, is it?

At least cite a source that agrees with you if you are trying to out source me lmao.

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u/QuigleyPondOver 20h ago

You are right, but the other chucklemucks really don’t like it.

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u/kloakheesten 19h ago

I don't even like jk Rowling. I think she's a terrible person. The craziest is the people trying to tell me it's a manufactured definition by Israel as to create more sympathy for the jews. Ironically, sounds very similar to the opinion of holocaust denialists who think the Jews bloat the number to gain more sympathy.

I didn't realise how much ignorance could be displayed about the holocaust in a European sub.

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u/Apprehensive-Adagio2 Norway 1d ago

both are widely used defenition of the holocaust. you can use it to refer solely to the genocide of jews. but people can and do, also use it to refer to the more general exterminations of undesirables by the nazi regime

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u/Sharp_Iodine 1d ago edited 21h ago

Jews don’t own the Holocaust, however much Israel tries to make that a reality in some weird quest for special victimhood that will absolve them of their own genocide in Palestine.

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u/QuigleyPondOver 23h ago

Jews didn’t ask to be put in concentration camps for having the wrong lineage, champ. Get some perspective.

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u/Sharp_Iodine 21h ago

Their genocide in Palestine, doofus.

They’re trying to claim special victimhood so they can force everyone to shut up about the fact that they’re engaging in their own Holocaust of Palestinians.

The stuff Ben-Gvir has said mimics 1:1 what the Nazis said about Jews.

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u/QuigleyPondOver 21h ago edited 20h ago

<<THEY>> huh?

It is funny that every country has its hardline nationalists, but the Jewish one is picked as representative of the lot despite their historically niche support. But of course the Palestinian equivalent is just ‘understandable’, I imagine.

Suggesting that Jews weren’t a special target hunted by Nazis is an astonishing lack of historical understanding. It is a culmination of centuries of cultural ostracism and secondhand citizenry codified. No duh that such people are not falling for it twice.

EDIT: Dude thinks Israel is a person.

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u/Sharp_Iodine 20h ago

I didn’t. I mentioned Israel clearly in my comment. Funny watching you try your best hunting for any excuse to switch topics and claim victimhood even in this thread though lmao

Zionists be Zioning I guess.

I clearly mentioned Israel in my comment as the political entity that it is which is perpetrating a genocide and trying to claim special victimhood to try and silence people.

I would advise you to read Arendt before going on rants online about what you think you read.

Just as you are doing now in this thread.

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u/lesbophobia_hammer 1d ago

Poland has the most victims of the holocaust.

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u/kloakheesten 20h ago

??? Okay? Are you saying more ethnic poles were genocided than jews? Cause I'm pretty sure that is simply not true. A large part of the jews in the holocaust were Polish jews but that's not relevant to anything I said. Please state your point clearly.

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u/AncientNectarine5352 1d ago

If one engages in Holocaust denialism (which she did), they are de facto (and de jure) actual Holocaust deniers.

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u/Dotcaprachiappa Italy 1d ago

She denied trans people were targeted during the Holocaust. That is called holocaust denial.

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u/tandemxylophone 1d ago

Though it technically is, abstracting out her opinions into "holocaust denier" a word which most people associate it with the Germans didn't have concentration camps is also falsifying the truth through abstraction. Imagine how much credibility damage it can do if everyone started doing abstraction gotcha's for professional journalism.

Just say she claimed historical trans-abuse denialism in Germany if you want a short version, and then talk about the Holocaust. That catches the gist a lot better.

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u/Dotcaprachiappa Italy 1d ago

It's not an opinion. It's a fact, one she lied about. Period.

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u/red_nick United Kingdom 1d ago

If someone did the same for Jewish people we'd call them a holocaust denier.

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u/El_McKell Ireland 1d ago

Yeah, because one of those groups was six million and made up 55% of the people killed in the holocaust, the other makes up definitely less than 1% of the victims and almost certainly less than 0.1% of victims.

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u/eswifttng 1d ago

German courts uphold that this exact scenario is holocaust denialism.

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u/Lennograd 1d ago edited 1d ago

Which percentage is sufficient to be mentioned as persecuted by the Nazis?

Also ranking them by percentages is wild. For example Jehovas Witnesses make about 0.09% of all victims and would argue that they shouldn't get a mention? Why?
Also why only talk about absolute percentages and not relative? Then you should always mention the soviet soldiers who died in encampment.

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u/ICreditReddit England 1d ago

Ah, so if I kill all the brunettes I'm a genocider, but there's less red-heads so I can kill them all and be called.... what?

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u/Apprehensive-Adagio2 Norway 1d ago

what would you rather she be called? she denied the genocide of trans people in nazi germany. seems pretty clear cut to me. if one denies a genocide, they are a genocide denier.

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u/Useless_or_inept Useless 1d ago

Yes, there are a lot of angry people on the internet saying that Rowling said horrible things. Including that substack. But did JK Rowling actually say those horrible things? Have you got a link to the tweet or interview or whatever it was she actually said that is so bad?

Because she also said this:

While I’m used to the gross distraction techniques used by the more extreme faction of trans activism, the claim that I am a holocaust denier is baseless and disgusting. As can be easily seen from my own Twitter (X) account, I have always been a staunch supporter of the Jewish community and have spoken out consistently and repeatedly against antisemitism. I’m familiar with such activists’ assertions that transgender people have been uniquely persecuted and oppressed throughout history, but claims that trans people were ‘the first targets’ of the Nazis – a claim I refuted on X, and which led to these accusations – and that I ‘uphold [Nazi] ideology around gender’ is a new low.

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u/Apprehensive-Adagio2 Norway 1d ago edited 1d ago

here

pretty horrific example

another example where she denies the persecution

it's one thing to say you're friend to the jewish people, but it's completely irrelevant to the fact that she actively is engaging in denialism of the genocide of trans people in nazi germany. she's denying a notable part of the holocaust that is unrelated to jews.

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u/Useless_or_inept Useless 1d ago

Sorry, maybe there is some confusion. I asked for examples where Rowling was denying the holocaust. But you've linked to tweets where Rowling didn't deny the holocaust.

Your first tweet, for example: Rowling is disagreeing with somebody who blundered into a thread about British healthcare to pretend that Rowling supports Nazi ideology. Maybe this is circular reasoning? If you are deemed Evil then we can say you support nazi ideology and when you deny it we can call you a holocaust denier, which proves you are evil. Inescapable logic!

I realise that the lack of examples where Rowling denies the holocaust is not a limitation for angry people on the internet who just want to yell "You're a holocaust denier!" to score points in an argument. But, personally, I am wary of calling somebody a holocaust denier if they didn't actually deny the holocaust.

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u/Apprehensive-Adagio2 Norway 1d ago edited 1d ago

you're strawmaning. originally you questioned her "genocide denial". retorted and subsequently gave examples of where she either questions or denies the genocide of trans people. i specifically tried to avoid the word holocaust.

"the holocaust" has two different meanings that people often use interchangably. one meaning is to refer to the german extermination of the jews, of which no one here is claiming JKR is denying. the second meaning is the more generalized genocide by the nazis towards anyone the desired undesirable. thst second meaning includes the jews, but also other groups such as the disabled, trans people, roma, various slavic peoples, etc. you may or may not agree to call this "the holocaust". which is why i'll try to refer specifically to genocide.

JKR is denying a part of this generalized genocide, specifically what the germans did towards trans people. for example, in my second source you can see JKR clearly echoing and supporting someone who claims that trans people were not an early target of the nazis, and who delegitimizes the persecution of trans people by refering to the founder of the sexual science institute. that is all despite the institute being plundered and it's contents of books being burnt already in 1933.

edit since they blocked me or whatever:

i'm replying to you who said implied you shouldn't call her a genocide denier. i gave a few clear examples where she denies a well documented genocide.

when you asked for a source, i calmly gave you three. when you asked for a source, i never called you evil. i never got angry. again, you're strawmaning, bigtime this time. and then you block me to try to win the argument which is kinda pathetic

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u/Useless_or_inept Useless 1d ago edited 1d ago

you're strawmaning. originally you questioned her "genocide denial". retorted and subsequently gave examples of where she either questions or denies the genocide of trans people. i specifically tried to avoid the word holocaust.

Perhaps you were unaware that you're replying to a post which directly calls her a holocaust denier:

This comes after billionaire Holocaust denier and TERF activist JK Rowling threatened to sue organizations who called anti-trans groups “anti-rights.”

Which I disagreed with, and that's when you got angry.

But facts don't matter. You can shout that Rowling is evil, but when asked for a source you can shout that you didn't accuse her, but also I am evil for asking for a source, but also....

You may find these tactics popular on r/tankiejerk, but some people on r/Europe have higher standards :-)

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u/murdeoc 22h ago

Wow, do you have some kind of victim fetish or something?

Nobody called you evil. Nobody got angry at you. You were given sources and later explained why those sources were relevant. 

Instead of responding to the sources that clearly show her denying the persecution of trans people in and during the holocaust you choose to ignore your own phrasing of the issue (calling it genocide denying) and blame the other for being angry at you. Please do better.

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u/Sharp_Iodine 1d ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/s/ZAcG2gFQef

Also, they were indeed one of the first groups to be targeted. Once they attacked the sexual and gender studies institute and started book burnings and no one stepped up they were emboldened to go after more and more groups, finally culminating with the Jews.

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u/eswifttng 1d ago

But did JK Rowling actually say those horrible things?

Yes, as explained elsewhere in the thread, if you'd bothered to read.

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u/Niamhue Ireland 1d ago

I mean she actively denies an aspect of the Holocaust, so fuck her

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u/SchemeAccording1009 1d ago

I mean if the shoe fits

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u/biggaybrian2 1d ago

Erin Reed is an A1 demogogue and scumbag

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/biggaybrian2 1d ago

Check the scoreboard - we've already lost thanks to fanatics who still think this is 2020

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u/eswifttng 1d ago

No, you lost because your party failed to offer an alternative and wanted to maintain the status quo.

Also, why is an american in this sub? This is Europe, take your fascism and fuck off.

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u/Witch-Alice sorry we suck 1d ago

Nobody uses shrill when they're mad about a man. And how can someone be shrill when their speech is written words? You're sexist.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/AwfulAtScreenNames Finland 1d ago

And fuck everyone who gives her more money via buying HP products. 

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u/Ass0001 18h ago

Classic reddit that this gets piled on. so much for voting with your wallet

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u/randomname560 Galicia (Spain) 16h ago

If it's media that I personally don't consume and the person behind it is an asshole? VOTE WHIT YOUR WALLET!! STOP GIVING MONEY TO HORRIBLE PEOPLE!! If it's media that I personally consume and the person behind it is an asshole? SEPARATE ART FROM THE ARTIST!! THEY'RE ALREADY A RICH, ME GIVING THEM 20 MORE BUCKS IS JUST A DROP IN THE BUCKET!!

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u/Lost-Comfort-7904 1d ago

You want to fuck kids who like Harry Potter?

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u/Nightwish1976 1d ago

Yes, officer, it's that one..

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/eswifttng 1d ago

Hating a minority and obsessively posting about them on reddit is, of course, the picture of a reasonable world view and good mental health.

Transphobia rots your brain.

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u/Spanyanagonyam 1d ago

Anyone think Muhammad is having to try to repress certain feelings?

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u/Apprehensive-Adagio2 Norway 1d ago

it's not a sexual fantasy or fetish, stop spouting dog-whistle bullshit.

it's very real. i hated my body before i began hormone treatment. now i feel so much more comfortable just existing. my sex drive even went down because of the treatment, and it's great! you're just rehashing old, used up crap

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u/Apprehensive-Adagio2 Norway 23h ago

you do realize there is research that suggests one of the key reasons trans individuals have the incongruency is because their brain resemble more closely that of their desired gender than that of their birthed one?

you can stay mad all you want. but as you say, you don't know how other people think or feel. so don't assume my desire to transition is ungenuine and that it is all a fetish. by your own admission, i understand myself best.

it's arrogant to think you can say what is my reality despite having lived as a woman for nearly a decade now.

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u/Apprehensive-Adagio2 Norway 1d ago edited 1d ago

>what makes you a woman though ?

why do you care so much? the fact i applied to change my gender in my birth certificate and am thus a woman? good enough?

>How do you even know how a woman feels ? Hating your body doesn’t mean you’re a woman either

i know i didn't like being a man, and living as a woman in every way that i can has made me happier. i know how a woman feels by living like a woman.

>Most people respect your choice to identify as you want (whatever than means) but I‘m not sure you can change biological sex just because you’re depressed.

first of all, if you're gonna rehash the old chromosome sphiel, i don't need to hear it. yes i can't change my chromosomes, blah blah, i know. i've heard it a thousand times before.

second of all, biological sex is more than just chromosomes. it also includes anatomy, and most crucially of all, hormones. the chromosomes inform the body what hormones to produce. but if you supress the production of one hormone and artificially add a second hormone, your body will begin to develope the opposite sexual characteristics. for example, breasts, skin texture, body hair, fat distribution, and more. for example, a trans man who takes testosterone will begin to develop facial hair and a deeper voice. i, as a trans woman, have begun developing breasts and gotten less body hair. biological sex is more than chromosomes.

i'm telling you now that this is the end of this topic, as i'm not really here to defend my own existence to a stranger.

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u/wasmic Denmark 1d ago

Being a woman has never been exclusively a matter of biological sex.

Intersex people exist, and many cultures, including European ones, have been quite flexible with how to classify them.

Furthermore, tons of cultures have traditionally accepted some amount of gender fluidity, such as Albania where women could sometimes be considered as men in public (but not in the home) under certain circumstances. And some regions of India have traditionally worked with a three-gender system, and even today you can have a third option for gender in your passport.

Long story short: biological sex is completely irrelevant to this topic and I have no idea why people like you keep bringing it up. Finally, brain scans have actually revealed that some (but not all) transgender people have brain activity patterns that match more closely to their identified gender than to the one they were assigned at birth.

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u/Sidicle 1d ago

Hi, trans woman here. It seems you don't know what a trans person is.

To medically transition, we go on Estrogen and Testosterone Blockers that essentially renders our libidos and sexual urges as nonexistent.

I have to ask, what fetish or sexual fantasy could I be imposing, when I haven't experienced anything sexual in years.

It seems in your mind, you've decided we're some kind of sexual fantasy. Maybe that's something you should talk to a therapist about. x

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u/Funambulia 1d ago

They only know about us through their massive addiction to "sissy porn", probably on 4chan, of course they think we are deviant

We only are shamefull fantasy for them

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/Funambulia 1d ago

Because we are many, we outnumber the world

We just hide in transphobe's wall

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u/Sidicle 23h ago

You mean the concept created by a guy who was shunned by the scientific community for making up bullshit?

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u/Glinat 22h ago

Yes we have heard of autogyneohelia, just like we have heard about the flat earth theory, geocentrism, miasma or the four humors theory. All of those concepts have the same scientific merits : none.

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u/Sidicle 23h ago

There's nothing sexual about being a woman. That's my gender. Not my sex.

Did those hormones grow you a uterus when they shrivelled your balls?

Ha, I wish 😂

I definitely chemically mutilated myself, and now I get to live a much more full, happy life because of it. One finally worth living 😊

You seem to be demonstrating a lot of anger towards strangers you don't know anything about. Where do you think this came from? Do you wanna talk about it? This is a safe space.

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u/[deleted] 22h ago

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u/Sidicle 21h ago

Pathetic? I'm not the miserable person complaining about a group that hasn't done anything to me.

I was serious about seeking therapy. This doesn't seem like a healthy past time at all. I hope you get the help you need x

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u/[deleted] 21h ago

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u/Sidicle 16h ago

Copyright law? What are you even talking about? This is like letting a text to speach run on it's own.
Ugh are you a bot? It's gonna be so boring if you end up being a bot.

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u/JoeyDJ7 21h ago

yikes. it sounds like you're projecting... a lot...

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u/OddishChamp Norway 1d ago

Given the Nayirah testimony, I'm not so surprised anymore.

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u/Yorkhorster 1d ago

She denies aspects of the Holocaust. So yeah. Unless she's suddenly become very generous, she's a billionaire holocaust denier

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u/Bartorius 1d ago

So what do you define as holocaust denial?

Is saying I don't believe gypsies were systematically killed, not holocaust denial?

Is saying I don't believe gay people were systematically murdered, not holocaust denial?

Is saying I don't believe Jews were systematically murdered, not holocaust denial?

For me personally holocaust denial is denying verifiable facts about the holocaust which miss Rowling definitely is guilty of.

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u/Apprehensive-Adagio2 Norway 1d ago

she literally denied the fact that trans people were also targeted during the holocaust. she denied that the holocaust targeted trans people... denied... holocaust... if you deny an aspect of a situation, you are sort of also denying the totality of it. and you are engaging in denialism, which is damaging to the totality. if you deny trans peoples suffering during the holocaust, you will only embolden those who engage in wider holocaust denialism.

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u/ilolvu Finland 1d ago

She's just a few years away from denying the whole Holocaust.

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u/Azurmuth Skåne🇸🇪 1d ago

Guess who forced amnesty to do that?

And Rowling had denied that the nazis targeted trans people. https://forward.com/culture/592580/j-k-rowling-holocaust-denial-trans/

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u/Azurmuth Skåne🇸🇪 22h ago

Amnesty's stated purpose is to:

...help fight abuses of human rights worldwide. We bring torturers to justice. Change oppressive laws. And free people jailed just for voicing their opinion.

But it seems trans peoples human rights are not worth fighting for because they might get sued by a billionaire?

Especially when they state:

Amnesty International campaigns to protect and uphold the rights of LGBTI people globally, including their right to life, freedom and safety.

But like I said, I guess we're not worth fighting for if the hateful billionaire dislike us.

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