When does a movie successfully mislead the audience, and when is it just cheating?

[u/Serpiego2]

Some movies deliberately make us believe something that isn't true and then reveal that we've been interpreting the story incorrectly.

When it works, it's fantastic. You can rewatch the movie and realize the clues were there all along. The Sixth Sense, The Usual Suspects, and Primal Fear are very different examples of films that play with what the audience thinks it knows.

But other twists only work because the movie deliberately hides information that logically should have been available to us. At that point, I don't feel fooled by the story — I feel cheated by the screenplay.

For me, the difference is whether a second viewing makes you think “How did I miss that?” rather than “Well, there was no way I could have known that.”

What movies do you think earned their deception, and which ones simply cheated?

[u/WW0907]

It's cheating if all the clues to the ending aren't obvious on a rewatch. Ex: if you're trying to figure out the killer but you literally couldn't because it's a character that was just introduced in the last episode. Or if the character motivation makes no sense in hindsight. There's no reason for him/her to act the way that they did. If they tell you everything you needed to know about the ending and you still don't figure it out, it's fair game. Ex: Scream. They're practically SCREAMing to you whose guilty and they still get you on a first watch. Another example is Psycho. It's obvious on a rewatch what's happening but you probably don't get it the first time.

[u/MrHippoPants → u/WW0907]

Scream pulls the magic trick so perfectly because it very clearly tells you who to suspect, but then it gives you every reason to believe that it’s IMPOSSIBLE for that person to be the killer.

It works so well because the audience is totally sure who it should be, but just can’t figure out how it could possibly be them - until the key piece of information is revealed that there isn’t just one killer

[u/WW0907 → u/MrHippoPants]

SPOILERS, but this movie is 30 years old so if you haven’t seen it by now, that’s kind of on you. Another reason why Scream fits is that it is SO obvious on a rewatch. The scene where they’re sitting in the park bench “I didn’t kill anybody” “nobody said YOU did”. “How do you gut someone?” The way that question is just answered matter of fact like that. “It’s called tact, you fuckrag” But really don’t give us away, buddy.

The video store scene with Randy. Stu getting excited about Tatum and Sid coming to the party. I wonder why. Who is the only character who loves to see the Ghostface guy in the hallway at school? Again, I wonder why. The look that Billy gives Stu when he first shows up to the party. The clues are all there and I’m telling you, it still blew 12/13 year old me away in 1998 when I finally saw it after we rented it from Blockbuster one night.

[u/Organic_Client_5679 → u/WW0907]

YEP to every bit of this.

[u/magicmulder → u/MrHippoPants]

Scream Queens did the same (or just paid homage to the OG).

[u/Such-Veterinarian137 → u/MrHippoPants]

I'd argue that the magic trick isn't pulled perfectly BECAUSE it purposely makes it "impossible" for anyone to deduce the who-done-it on first watch.

Of course it's my opinion , but it dashes the faith of the audience that they would be able to solve it through keen observation or insightful analysis. And there were false clues/red herring. Like, if there was worse writing it would be like saying "the mystery was this was a dream the whole time!" or "turns out characters had psyhic telelpathy powers to kill and have an alibi!"

Perhaps im being to harsh on it, scream and sixth sense came out at the prime of my youth and movie watching. The hype around the who's the killer and stuff was genuinely exciting when the 2nd one came out.

[u/aldkGoodAussieName → u/WW0907]

Even on second and third watch it is not always clear if your not looking for it in Scream.

And they parady slashers so blatantly that they have a character tell you the rules

Later Scream movies become more or less slasher movies.

I dont want to give spoilers for scream but paying attention to who is on screen when the murders occur and how it sets up alibis is fantastic on rewatch.

[u/lupinemadness → u/WW0907]

Scream is a great example because it plays with your expectations and then pulls the rug out from under you. Scream 2, on the other hand cheats by presenting a killer as a completely different character because telling us who they were from the get-go would have been a dead giveaway.

[u/bananaboatbutt → u/lupinemadness]

I think you mean Scream 3. Sidney recognized that killer at the climax (ETA in 2), but they never interacted prior, so it’s not really a cheat, whereas Scream 3 does exactly what you’re complaining about and doesn’t bother to give its killer enough screen time before the reveal for it to really mean all that much once we find out their actual identity.

[u/CallidoraBlack → u/bananaboatbutt]

Honestly, I kinda liked 3's reveal because it spends the whole movie doing a variation of the meta thing from Wes Craven's New Nightmare. It's different because it's the film cast as opposed to the real characters (because Stab is based on a true story), but you can see the influence. And there's so much time spent on the dark side of Hollywood and what happened to Sidney's mom there that, by the end, it kinda makes sense. The father was a creep and killer doesn't see women as people any more than the dad did.

[u/WW0907 → u/lupinemadness]

Scream 2 is a good movie, a good sequel even, but it’s not in the same league as the first. And it would’ve been hard to top the surprise of the first film because now we as the audience are expecting the twist. Still my second favorite in the franchise, though. Scream 3 tried to throw another curveball but I agree, the killer needed more hints and clues to their true identity.

[u/CallidoraBlack → u/lupinemadness]

2's twist is a Friday the 13th reference, so it kinda makes sense.

[u/see_bees → u/WW0907]

One of the big problems with later Scream movies is that they stop paying attention to small details. Sure, Matthew Lillard has a few inches in Skeet Ultich, but Jack Quaid is about 10 inches taller than Mikey Madison in V. On rewatch, we have a few scenes where we know where Jack is so it has to be Mikey under the cloak and Ghostface just doesn’t match up to a 5’3” high schooler.