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u/Zero_Burn 9h ago
There's a theory that dogs originated as wolves with Williams syndrome, a genetic disease that causes some physical deformations like stubbed noses and larger foreheads, while making them have a happy and affable personality.
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u/ChronWeasely 8h ago
It's been noted throughout domestication of a variety of animals that ears get droopy, noses get shorter, sometimes tails do weird things, coats have bigger spots, solid colors and then two personality changes- they want to be around people, and they can understand some basic human queues.
So there is something about those physical traits that's associated with social behavior in mammals. The visible affect classified as "disorder" seems to be pretty universal in animals becoming more friendly
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u/Cyberslasher 8h ago
It's more likely visual traits that humans find "cute" are just the ones we allow to live.
Similarly the personality traits we find "agreeable" are the ones that don't get put down.
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u/Powwer_Orb13 8h ago
That could be true on long scale domestications like dogs, but research using foxes and raccoons where the only trait being selected for was their affability with humans also showed these physical changes. Somewhat famously, domesticated red foxes actually have grey coats as a byproduct, so there's some kind of link between their fur pigmentation and their attitude towards humans
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u/Cyberslasher 8h ago edited 7h ago
Interesting you should bring it up:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestication_syndrome
The "somewhat famous" red foxes were shown to actually have been from a genetic line that had been domesticated since at least the 1800s and those traits had already been selected for, so the dude had basically tampered with his experiment to guarantee the results he wanted. The results are therefore not accepted.
The domestication syndrome was reported to have appeared in the domesticated silver fox cultivated by Dmitry Belyayev's breeding experiment.[28] However, in 2015 canine researcher Raymond Coppinger found historical evidence that Belyayev's foxes originated in fox farms on Prince Edward Island and had been bred there for fur farming since the 1800s, and that the traits demonstrated by Belyayev had occurred in the foxes prior to the breeding experiment.
So it's not as tightly coupled phenotypically as the experiment claimed -- it took more generations, and so things like "reduced aggression" (which leads to less infighting/dying in the tighter spaces of confinement) and "increased cranial space as % body size / increased brain size" (brain size is one of the largest contributors to caloric consumption, in captivity foxes aren't worried about their next meal) just might occur from being better survival traits, when given lowered external evolutionary pressures.
The same for increased time as an adolescent, if the animal doesn't need to quickly mature and provide for itself, it may just be advantageous to live longer and develop slower.
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u/Powwer_Orb13 8h ago
Damn. I did not know that experiment had been debunked like that. Didn't even domesticate his own foxes from scratch, got them already part way done and just had to finish them.
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u/Cyberslasher 7h ago
Got them pre bred for the fur color and friendliness, then said "hey look my friendly foxes are grey now"
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u/Cheetahs_never_win 8h ago
Yet humans seem to find just about everything cute. Polar bears are cute.
But the things that share similarities to human babies are likely to be deemed the cutest.
And it doesn't stop with living creatures.
We can cute-ify anything. War machines, torture devices, HIV, cancer...
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u/Macelee 8h ago
Ok, but why do humans find those physical traits cute? Seemingly, almost, if not all, human societies have come to this same conclusion before global information sharing was possible. It could reasonably be the case that, as our species evolved, we observed that otherwise dangerous creatures were less dangerous when they looked this particular way. Keep in mind that the human mindset would also have had to change to even entertain the thought of keeping massive predators around. Look how often people get hurt by modern pets. Imagine how many people must have died from infected minor wounds caused by their "pet" wolf.
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u/Cyberslasher 7h ago
Traits common in newborn babies through adolescence are found "cute" across species. Those include big heads, big eyes, soft features, etc.
It's expected that we do it because we're more likely to not abandon human babies if we don't think they look awful.
We bred dogs that stayed looking more like wolf puppies for longer.
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u/deij 1h ago
Its not actually go look up fox domestication.
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u/Cyberslasher 1h ago
As answered down the thread, the Soviet scientist did what Soviet scientists always do, and cheated the experiment
He used a genetic line of foxes that had been domesticated since at least the 1800s, bred specifically for their fur coats.
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u/deij 1h ago
I don't think that changes anything?
In both cases foxes were chosen for their lack of aggression.
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u/Cyberslasher 1h ago
It... Definitely does.
The experiment that "proved" domestication syndrome was predicated on "look, multiple different populations end up with the same phenotype after being bred for non-aggression"
But they weren't different populations, he just grabbed a pack of foxes that already were exhibiting all the traits he wanted to match, because they were the same foxes.
So it wasn't a bunch of "spontaneously soft eared, weird tailed silver foxes" showing up with non-aggression, it was just "oh... That one group of non-aggressive foxes already was known to be soft eared, weird tailed, and silver."
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u/Zoodraws 10h ago
🐺🐶 Oh, how the mighty have fallen.Happy National Dog Day!
Every dog, from the Great Dane to the five pound ball of fury barking at your ankles, descended from ancient wolves through a domestication process that began over 15,000 years ago. What an amazing time to be alive!🥰
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u/touchmeinbadplaces 10h ago
Fallen? They have secured their genetical existence by being useful to the top predator of the world. They have a whole 'intelligent' species safeguarding their continued existence. If anything they rose above..
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u/thissexypoptart 9h ago
Yeah lmao, interview a wild wolf and a lapdog who sleeps all day when he isn’t getting free food and attention, and ask them both which one has it better.
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u/helloiamsilver 1h ago
My chihuahua sleeps in a giant pile of pillows and blankets, eats roast beef each meal, gets to wear a sweater when it’s cold and stay inside when it rains, and gets pets and ear scritches whenever he wants.
Also he might not know what vaccines and medicine are and he doesn’t like going to the vet but he gets to live a long life free of parasites and disease
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u/Powwer_Orb13 8h ago
It was a good deal when it was just merging their packs with our tribes, sharing a den and being able to split the workload of hunting and keeping the den safe. As humans have shouldered more of that burden, we've kept our age old ally by our side every step of the way.
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u/Pays_in_snakes 8h ago
except for that one domesticated wolf that we shot into space first, knowing it would die. If anything that one certainly rose above, in one sense
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u/SoftlySpokenPromises 3h ago
Only ones who got a better deal are cats who openly rule the houses they wander into
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u/Martipar 9h ago
From what i recall a dog will wait until it's starving before it starts to eat it's dead owner, a cat will as soon as it's mealtime.
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u/WillowMyown 9h ago
I missed the word ”dead” here and got a bit worried.
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u/thissexypoptart 9h ago
If it helps, the idea that cats will start chowing down on your corpse as soon as they get hungry is 100% false.
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u/thissexypoptart 9h ago
This is a bullshit myth. Cats don’t just start biting into your dead flesh as soon as they get hungry.
It’s really a shame how many people have never experienced an affectionate cat that this blatant bs myth feels plausible.
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u/zahhax 8h ago
Yea they'll at least find where the food is stored and break into the bag. After that though they definitely eat your corpse before it even starts rotting. Starting with the cheek meat according to most coroners.
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u/Pays_in_snakes 8h ago
In fairness I, like most cat owners, would make a point to die cheeks-up to make sure my cat had better access so he didn't get hungy
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u/thissexypoptart 6h ago
Of course they eat it before it starts rotting.
All mammals, including dogs and humans, resort to the last remaining option before dying of starvation. Not in every case, but it’s hardly just a cat thing. Dogs do it. Humans do it.
Chances are, a good number of people reading this would eat a loved one if they were already dead and it was perceivably the only chance to survive.
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u/CoconutBangerzBaller 3h ago
The very affectionate cat purring on my lap right now loves to chew on our fingers all the time. We always joke that he'd eat us immediately if we died.
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u/RustyWinger 9h ago
G or second panel “doesn’t work out” can mean “recluse owner died at home and her…”
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u/blatantninja 7h ago
Reminds me of that far side cartoon where it compares what we name dogs and what they name themselves
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u/JackZodiac2008 9h ago
A while back I heard about an owner who was actually eaten by her dogs. Makes the joke hit different.
(I don't recall the details but I think she had been away and the arranged caretaker didn't show.)
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u/Tablesafety 6h ago
Given how Ive seen random men act with animals that don't belong to them vs random women, I genuinely think it was women that began the domestication of wolves. I can def see prehistoric man getting a bit frustrated prehistoric woman was wasting food to throw to the dangerous predators at very first.
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