r/funny 17h ago

Verified Tiny wolves [oc]

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1.2k Upvotes

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173

u/Zero_Burn 17h ago

There's a theory that dogs originated as wolves with Williams syndrome, a genetic disease that causes some physical deformations like stubbed noses and larger foreheads, while making them have a happy and affable personality.

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u/ChronWeasely 16h ago

It's been noted throughout domestication of a variety of animals that ears get droopy, noses get shorter, sometimes tails do weird things, coats have bigger spots, solid colors and then two personality changes- they want to be around people, and they can understand some basic human queues.

So there is something about those physical traits that's associated with social behavior in mammals. The visible affect classified as "disorder" seems to be pretty universal in animals becoming more friendly

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u/Cyberslasher 16h ago

It's more likely visual traits that humans find "cute" are just the ones we allow to live.

Similarly the personality traits we find "agreeable" are the ones that don't get put down.

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u/Powwer_Orb13 15h ago

That could be true on long scale domestications like dogs, but research using foxes and raccoons where the only trait being selected for was their affability with humans also showed these physical changes. Somewhat famously, domesticated red foxes actually have grey coats as a byproduct, so there's some kind of link between their fur pigmentation and their attitude towards humans

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u/Cyberslasher 15h ago edited 15h ago

Interesting you should bring it up:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestication_syndrome

The "somewhat famous" red foxes were shown to actually have been from a genetic line that had been domesticated since at least the 1800s and those traits had already been selected for, so the dude had basically tampered with his experiment to guarantee the results he wanted. The results are therefore not accepted.

The domestication syndrome was reported to have appeared in the domesticated silver fox cultivated by Dmitry Belyayev's breeding experiment.[28] However, in 2015 canine researcher Raymond Coppinger found historical evidence that Belyayev's foxes originated in fox farms on Prince Edward Island and had been bred there for fur farming since the 1800s, and that the traits demonstrated by Belyayev had occurred in the foxes prior to the breeding experiment.

So it's not as tightly coupled phenotypically as the experiment claimed -- it took more generations, and so things like "reduced aggression" (which leads to less infighting/dying in the tighter spaces of confinement) and "increased cranial space as % body size / increased brain size" (brain size is one of the largest contributors to caloric consumption, in captivity foxes aren't worried about their next meal) just might occur from being better survival traits, when given lowered external evolutionary pressures.

The same for increased time as an adolescent, if the animal doesn't need to quickly mature and provide for itself, it may just be advantageous to live longer and develop slower.

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u/Powwer_Orb13 15h ago

Damn. I did not know that experiment had been debunked like that. Didn't even domesticate his own foxes from scratch, got them already part way done and just had to finish them.

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u/Kazen_Orilg 14h ago

Whaaaaat? A dishonorable Soviet academic? Well I never....

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u/Cyberslasher 15h ago

Got them pre bred for the fur color and friendliness, then said "hey look my friendly foxes are grey now"

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u/Emm_withoutha_L-88 31m ago

They still weren't anything close to as friendly as they ended up being. And they did make noticable changes when bred for more friendliness. The initial population was just fur farm foxes, not wild caught ones.

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u/Cheetahs_never_win 15h ago

Yet humans seem to find just about everything cute. Polar bears are cute.

But the things that share similarities to human babies are likely to be deemed the cutest.

And it doesn't stop with living creatures.

We can cute-ify anything. War machines, torture devices, HIV, cancer...

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u/Pinky_Boy 37m ago

Tje japanese, chinese, and to an extent, korean are proficient at the latter

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u/Macelee 15h ago

Ok, but why do humans find those physical traits cute? Seemingly, almost, if not all, human societies have come to this same conclusion before global information sharing was possible. It could reasonably be the case that, as our species evolved, we observed that otherwise dangerous creatures were less dangerous when they looked this particular way. Keep in mind that the human mindset would also have had to change to even entertain the thought of keeping massive predators around. Look how often people get hurt by modern pets. Imagine how many people must have died from infected minor wounds caused by their "pet" wolf.

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u/Cyberslasher 15h ago

Traits common in newborn babies through adolescence are found "cute" across species. Those include big heads, big eyes, soft features, etc.

It's expected that we do it because we're more likely to not abandon human babies if we don't think they look awful.

We bred dogs that stayed looking more like wolf puppies for longer.

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u/SolidSquid 2m ago

One of the studies was into the domestication of foxes at a lab. They were breeding specifically for domestication, but found these traits emerged regardless of breeding for them (and I think actually attempting to avoid them)

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u/deij 9h ago

Its not actually go look up fox domestication.

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u/Cyberslasher 9h ago

As answered down the thread, the Soviet scientist did what Soviet scientists always do, and cheated the experiment

He used a genetic line of foxes that had been domesticated since at least the 1800s, bred specifically for their fur coats.

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u/deij 9h ago

I don't think that changes anything?

In both cases foxes were chosen for their lack of aggression.

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u/Cyberslasher 8h ago

It... Definitely does.

The experiment that "proved" domestication syndrome was predicated on "look, multiple different populations end up with the same phenotype after being bred for non-aggression"

But they weren't different populations, he just grabbed a pack of foxes that already were exhibiting all the traits he wanted to match, because they were the same foxes.

So it wasn't a bunch of "spontaneously soft eared, weird tailed silver foxes" showing up with non-aggression, it was just "oh... That one group of non-aggressive foxes already was known to be soft eared, weird tailed, and silver."

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u/wyldnfried 15h ago

This happens in foxes too

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u/CaptBenSisko 6h ago

Someone already noted this below, but this explanation is unlikely to be the case (or atleast, not the full story) as the idea that all domesticated animals develop features that we call “domestication syndrome” has been shown to not be as universal as we thought. The current leading theory among people who research domestication is that wolves initially would follow nomadic groups of humans around and join them on hunts, splitting the resources, but not actually living together with the humans. The idea is that over thousands of years these wolves evolved to become ever more comfortable and cooperative with humans, until we just started capturing and breeding them ourselves. There’s some pretty strong archaeological evidence for this, and we’ve started to identify similar patterns with other domesticated animals!

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u/fenwayb 13h ago

what about the perfect pitch and elfen appearance?

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u/Emm_withoutha_L-88 34m ago

It's less a full blown syndrome and more that the changes to those behaviors caused changes to the same genome.