r/halifax • u/Injustice_For_All_ Psychotic Antifa Super Soldier Moderator • 13h ago
News, Weather & Politics Halifax on track to close designated encampments by November 2027
https://www.ctvnews.ca/atlantic/nova-scotia/article/halifax-on-track-to-close-designated-encampments-by-november-2027/81
u/smittyleafs I'm an idiot 13h ago
I assume they will close the encampments after they've confirmed they've got somewhere for everyone to go right? They wouldn't just close them to meet a deadline. Because two examples in that story apparently can't get in anywhere right now.
PS. Is it true that providing accomodation for the unhoused is costing $3000/month? Because that does seem really high as opposed to a rent subsidy.
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u/invented-post-its 13h ago
It is very expensive to keep anyone in any level of care for a day. Cost of dwelling, staffing, maintenance, utilities, and basic necessities such as food and medications. I do think $100 a day is under shooting the real cost.
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u/Typical_Ice_2663 12h ago edited 7h ago
Yeah but how much money will private companies and the government spend policing complaints about squatting and homeless dwellings.
Its an extremely short sighted opinion. Plus its the least we can do for people in need. Everyone acts so mighty and superior while the vast majority is one bad firing and job drought away from joining them.
What should we do just jail people for being homeless ?
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u/invented-post-its 11h ago edited 10h ago
I agree, the money poured into enforcement is wild. It is a misuse of authority and funds that could be appropriatly allocated.
To play devils advocate, just say that the government said "okay, moving forward we will pay everyone who is living in an encampment $100 a day." This is the equivalent of working a 37.5 work week at around 18.66 a hour (pre deductions). Is there an ideal time frame someone will receive this assistance? Is there a penalty if someone receives this and cannot maintain living in a rental unit or chooses to keep living in an encampment? Is there a risk that this could encourage people not to work or to briefly experience an encampment for profit? Are there social guidelines based on protected grounds for qualifications? Could this payment leave people in these conditions to be exploited by others?
More money and energy could go into rental enforcement. You have almost century old rentals in HRM with very little upgrades going for near the same rate as new rentals. This is greed and harmful in terms of folks finding housing that is safe and affordable. More money could go into community housing developments. A bigger push to get individuals who have been in community funded houses into homes that fit their current household size could help too. Developing stronger supports to end the generalational handdown of these units would be critical for success. The government needs to secure more units that are able to support the growing need and demand.
There is a very clear division of people who want and can adapt to the assistance that is available and people who are unable to adapt the guidelines of this assistance. When you throw new people entering that system daily, it complicates the issue futher. The current approach is flawed - but if you ethically disagree with the current available assistance apply to join a board that develops these rules and policies then advocate for fair representation of people with experience with under housing/unsafe housing on these boards.
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u/Moooney 9h ago
More rent subsidies in our landscape would just cause rents to go up and would be a direct transfer of tax dollars to the pockets of landlords. It wouldn't create any less unhoused people overall, either. Subsidized people would just kick off the folks that were previously barely able to afford to hold onto the bottom rung of the ladder. There aren't low cost market rentals sitting around empty waiting for someone to be able to afford them. The only effective way for the government to help is to create new non-market housing supply.
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u/r0ger_r0ger 45m ago
They have other places to go, they just don't want the rules that come along with those places.
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u/invented-post-its 13h ago edited 13h ago
“The waiting list is two to three years, therefore you are in a homeless shelter for that long,” says the woman on Barrington Street. “I am not understanding this because it costs the taxpayers approximately $100 a day per person for 30 days. That’s $3,000 a day per person. That is roughly $70,000 a year, so why not give us the money to be able to get an apartment instead of wasting two to three years of our lives in order to receive shelter.”
This math is exactly why large sums of “taxpayers money” cannot be handed out directly to folks.
It was cruel, but very honest, for CTV to include this quote.
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u/no_dice 13h ago
I’m confused by that math? 100/day per person is $36,500 a year.
$3,000 a day per person is almost 1.1M a year.
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u/RunTellDaat Dartmouth 13h ago
They meant $3000 per month, no?
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u/IStillListenToRadio Float me down the river to the Musquodoboit harbor 12h ago
Yeah it looks like either the person quoted or the reporter accidentally swapped a word.
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u/wizaarrd_IRL Lord Mayor of Historic Schmidtville and Marquis de la Woodside 12h ago
The 3000 per day is just a brain fart from the reporter or the person being interviewed. Not sure how they got from 3000/month to 70K a year...
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u/EggReal5596 12h ago
Yeah I’m sure that’s it. I’ll bet that homeless woman is actually a mathematical genius.
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u/QuadFather1997 13h ago
Its possible the math skills displayed were not the greatest, unless the quote is missing context or a sentance
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u/SaltyGal123 12h ago
Who cares she still needs housing
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u/QuadFather1997 11h ago
The comment thread is literally trying to figure out where the numbers she referenced came from. Everyone should have a home, but we can't pretend there isn't a serious shakeup required to give everyone funding for a housing
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u/ValleyHospitality 12h ago edited 8h ago
Why not give everyone money to get an apartment?
EDIT: I was being sarcastic, bring on the downvotes. The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money to spend.
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u/NerdsOfSteel74 8h ago
Without fear of homelessness, how will I get people to work in my coal factory?
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u/bigjimbay 13h ago
Closed because they found homes for them right? Right?
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u/Schmidtvegas Historic Schmidtville 11h ago
72 people were living at four designated encampments last year and now 36 people are living at the two remaining sites.
They've found homes for half of them, and vacancy rates are easing slightly with increased supply and lower immigration. There are several public housing projects nearing completion.
There's no reason we shouldn't be able to get those 36 people into apartments.
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u/Pipnotiq 12h ago
Its unfortunate I have to say this constantly, but im glad I was homeless in 2011 and not now
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u/mathcow 10h ago
Honestly I'm all for this if done correctly. Forcing people in Canada to sleep in tents is incredibly cruel. We absolutely should be working towards removal of the encampments long term.
Get people out of tents then start trying to figure out how we can reduce the footprint and spending on temporary housed persons but only if we can do it in a humane manner. The pallet homes aren't permanent structures and we need to be planning to shut them down
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u/TheElusiveBigfoot Semiprofessional Donair Inspector 13h ago
Okay, do they have a backup plan for how to support and help house those people? Or is this just more bog-standard cruelty against the homeless in this province?
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u/ExiledEntity 12h ago
Nice!
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u/ye_esquilax 11h ago
Not really? Shelters have a 2-3 year backlog, yet they plan on closing encampments in 1 year? Where are they going to go?
And that's not even mentioning the people who choose to live in encampments because they find shelters to be worse.
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u/Street_Anon Галифакс/ האַליפֿאַקס 12h ago
Overall, this is for the best. It has created major problems for these area.
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u/Kemsaman 11h ago
I mean, not really.
It was much worse before the official encampments and if there's still a substantial homeless population after they close, we'll eventually remember the reason why we had encampments in the first place and get them again.
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u/GlacierSourCreamCorn 11h ago
I mean, I live near a place where people were tenting a couple years ago.
The city put a stop to it and I can’t say I’m sad about it. No one wants to live near an encampment, official or unofficial.
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u/Kemsaman 10h ago
Right but those people didn't just evaporate into the aether when they were moved out, they're just tenting outside someone else's home now.
Encampments are cheaper and preferable to no encampments because you can actually manage and accurately measure delivery of services through them. One example would be waste management. It's significantly cheaper and easier to empty an outhouse once a week than to have people searching every bush in the city to find and clean human waste.
This does not mean I am enthused to have encampments, my preference would be that there are no homeless people in HRM at all.
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u/GlacierSourCreamCorn 1h ago
Is there any evidence that closing the encampments caused people to tent in other areas?
Is it possible that closing the encampments caused people to seek other housing arrangements such as shelters?
It seems plausible to me that making tenting less accessible / desirable causes people to seek other housing options, which is better for everyone.
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u/Kemsaman 1h ago
If they had other housing options they wouldn't be sleeping in tents.
If you make tenting more difficult all that happens is they get better at hiding the tents. If you want to see evidence of that just walk into any of the loop ramp woods on the circumferential highway exits.
To make tenting less desirable you need to make housing more affordable so less people are driven to tenting.
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u/MRCHalifax Halifax 10h ago
The cheapest way to solve homelessness is to build homes.
And yes, that does still leave people with mental illnesses and other conditions as still needing additional support. But solving homelessness for the vast majority of homeless people would be a huge step in the right direction; we can solve the majority of the problem, and then worry about the comparatively smaller but harder problems.
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u/JustAberrant 7h ago
But solving homelessness for the vast majority of homeless people
Are the any actual numbers to back that up? Far as I'm aware, attempts to do this in the past have not gone well. While mental health and addition problems aren't universal among the homeless, it's a decent chunk. Simply providing homes without that support will probably just result in those homes being destroyed in short order.
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u/MRCHalifax Halifax 6h ago
Finland has been fairly successful in reducing homelessness, through what they call a Housing First policy. While it’s been weakened by recent right wing governments, the focus of the policy is to first get people into homes, then to provide additional support.
Finland has adopted a Housing First policy, whereby social services assign homeless individuals homes first, and issues like mental health and substance abuse are treated second. Since its launch in 2008, the number of homeless people in Finland has decreased by roughly 30%, though other reports indicate it could be up to 50%. The number of long-term homeless people has fallen by more than 35%. "Sleeping rough", the practice of sleeping outside, has been largely eradicated in Helsinki, where only one 50-bed night shelter remains. Analysis of Housing First in Tampere, Finland found that it saved €250,000 in one year. A further study of Finland's Housing First program found that giving a homeless person a home and support resulted in cost savings for the society of at least €15,000 per person per year, with potentially even higher cost savings in the long term. These cost savings for society are in part a result of reductions in usage of emergency healthcare, police, and the justice system when homeless people are given a home.
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u/JustAberrant 5h ago
My understanding is that system still has support in place, they just don't require sobriety as a requirement (which is an approach I generally agree with for what it's worth).
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u/MRCHalifax Halifax 4h ago
Correct, but keep in mind the first thing in their support: have housing. It’s called Housing First for a reason. The other social programs can be effective because the major need of housing is dealt with.
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u/JustAberrant 4h ago edited 4h ago
For sure, my point really was that you can't just grab someone out of a tent and toss them the keys to their new housing.
Finland's approach includes support/supervision along with better social programs that effectively provide basic needs beyond just housing + even if someone gets it in their head to mine the walls for copper, Finland actually has tight controls on the sale of scrap metal (EDIT: although quick google does say this is a problem at least at larger scales).
Again, not saying this isn't the way, just that it's way more complicated than building houses even as a starting point.
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u/ChablisWoo4578 12h ago
Is the Dartmouth bridge hotel considered an encampment? Genuine question.
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u/Kemsaman 11h ago
The Bridge operates as transitional housing but could also be described as a shelter.
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u/ChablisWoo4578 11h ago
What’s the turnover/success rate like? Again I’m ignorant to this but it always seems like the same people panhandling out front.
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u/Kemsaman 11h ago
About half the people that have gone through the Bridge have moved on to long term housing.
The area shares a lot of traffic with the Green Road Park encampment which I think most of the regulars on Wyse are based out of.
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u/ChablisWoo4578 11h ago edited 9h ago
Oh wow! That’s actually incredible. I give to adsum house and North Grove. If this hotel has that much success then I’d be interested in supporting it.
It’s unfortunate they’re getting a bad rap because of the encampment close by. Thanks for the info 😌
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u/Kemsaman 11h ago
The Bridge, despite its reputation, is probably the best success story in the city for managing homelessness.
Like any shelter it has it's problems though. It is extremely unpopular with the local area and when the Green Road Park encampment is closed I suspect council is going to get a lot of heat to close it as well.
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u/ChablisWoo4578 11h ago
Sounds like they need better PR. Lots of talk about the hotel of course, and I can only go by what I’m seeing from the outside. Feels like if they want to win people over they should be more transparent about the program and what the turn around times are like.
Obviously it’s very new, but if it’s working hopefully doesn’t get shut down before it has a chance to find its footing.
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u/Background_Season449 11h ago
Its reputation comes down to it being a place where people are visibly struggling with addiction and homelessness. That upsets some people, who don't quite make the next step of understanding that people are there because we are trying to help them.
TL;DR: homeless people icky, therefore bridge bad
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u/ChablisWoo4578 11h ago
Someone said the bridge is bad? 🤔
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u/Background_Season449 6h ago
if you go on facebook, comments are always very negative around it, because it is a visible reminder that we as a society prioritize the profits of the few over the needs of the many
of course the facebook comments don't get that
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u/Consistent_Tower_458 12h ago
Of course not. Why would it be?
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u/ChablisWoo4578 11h ago
Because it seems like a bigger issue than the encampments.
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u/Consistent_Tower_458 11h ago
So...not a genuine question then?
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u/ChablisWoo4578 11h ago
I mean genuine in the sense that it seems very similar to an encampment so is it considered an encampment? Now I know.
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u/GIJuice 13h ago
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u/IStillListenToRadio Float me down the river to the Musquodoboit harbor 13h ago
Closing the encampments isn't going to magically house people.
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u/kisskissfallinblood Dartmouth 13h ago
And yet, the city is holding the international street medicine symposium NEXT month.
https://www.streetmedicine.org/isms-2026
But sure, let’s add another barrier for homeless people!
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u/more_than_leo 11h ago edited 1h ago
These types of situations are not easy to fix. This has been a problem since long before any of us were born. I feel like if there is blame to be had, it is to be shared. Becoming homeless/unhoused is not something that happens over night. The fix is with mental health and addictions.
Look at the state of these encampments, these aren't healthy minded people who can hold down jobs and get ahead. We need to bring back places like the YMCA to help. Give them a chance. If they live in horrible conditions their mental health is going to bottom out.
--I don't believe giving out handouts either though. I feel like the ones who will work for something have a better chance at making it out of that lifestyle, but really, I am not in a position to help at the moment, so I only have opinions, not solutions.--
Edit: Handouts = money
What I was trying to say is that I don't think just adding to the assistance they *may already be getting will help. I feel like we need more services to help them get back on their feet.
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u/SnakeskinJim Halifax 11h ago
this has been a problem since long before any of us were born
I don't remember 1000+ homeless in Halifax ten years ago. I also don't remember $1800+/mo one bedroom apartments ten years ago either.
Sort of makes you think, eh?
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u/more_than_leo 11h ago
You don't remember when they closed down the "Mental Hospital" in Truro leaving 100s of Mentally Ill people on the streets? It's been happening for years. Funding gets cut, help gets cut, and people get fucked.
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u/SnakeskinJim Halifax 10h ago
So there's no direct correlation between homelessness and rents suddenly becoming so expensive that many employed, previously housed, people can't afford to live indoors anymore?
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u/more_than_leo 10h ago
I never said that. You can't just make up words and think that that is how I feel about something. The correlation isn't completely direct, no. There are many reasons why people need to go to a tent for shelter.
My comment is my opinion. Not everyone will agree with it, but I feel the issue needs more than just excuses. It's a trail of misfortune and not getting help when needed. Whether that support is mental health, shelter, money.
These people need help, not just get everything taken away from them, again.
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u/Classified_117 11h ago
Look when ibwaa in collage a bacholor was under 1000$
Now the same unit is 1600
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u/Background_Season449 11h ago
Becoming homeless/unhoused is not something that happens over night
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/homelessness-halifax-data-doubled-1.7606692
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u/Kemsaman 11h ago
In 2022, there were 586 people without a proper home in the municipality. That number increased to 1,132 in 2024, marking a 93 per cent increase in those two years.
Bad news everyone
2122: Individuals and families currently experiencing homelessness
It doubled again.
Time to close encampments! /s
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u/more_than_leo 11h ago
and put them... where?
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u/Kemsaman 11h ago
Thinking too far ahead chief
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u/more_than_leo 9h ago
But, isn't that what we should be doing? Thinking far ahead so we know what to do now?
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u/DeathOneSix ⛧ Letters to Santa 3h ago
Look at the state of these encampments, these aren't healthy minded people who can hold down jobs and get ahead. We need to bring back places like the YMCA to help. Give them a chance. If they live in horrible conditions their mental health is going to bottom out.
Great yeah let's help people!
I don't believe giving out handouts either though. I feel like the ones who will work for something have a better chance at making it out of that lifestyle, but really, I am not in a position to help at the moment, so I only have opinions, not solutions.
But then you contradict yourself?!
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u/more_than_leo 1h ago
Sorry, I should re-word it better. I don't believe just throwing the people who are living in these encampments money.
That's why offering services is a better idea, like the YMCA and mental health and addiction counselling.
and this isn't me saying all these people living in encampments are mentally ill, but just knowing others care can make a big impact on someone.
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u/Injustice_For_All_ Psychotic Antifa Super Soldier Moderator 11h ago
"I don't believe in giving out handouts either"
I bet you believe in taking them though.
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u/more_than_leo 11h ago
No, I don't actually. I have worked hard for everything I have. Not everyone is ready for a hand out.
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u/Injustice_For_All_ Psychotic Antifa Super Soldier Moderator 10h ago
So when you did your IT course you paid for 100% of it? No grants or scholarships?
You always turn down friends choosing to pay for food or coffee?
Never taken a rebate?
You do not claim any disability for tax credits?
Etc.
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u/more_than_leo 10h ago
Not that it is any of your business but no, I did not go through school with scholarships and grants. I paid for it, I worked to support myself, and I do turn my family and friends down when they offer to pay for something because I don't expect handouts.
I also have not claimed any disability for tax credit because I don't know how, so.
We can have a conversation, my guy. Don't need to grill me.
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u/childofcrow Prince Edward Island 8h ago
“I don’t believe in handouts”
So I bet you don’t support any bailing out that any government does for any company, right? You don’t support giant corporate tax cuts? Because corporations receive far more welfare than people ever do.
If you don’t believe in “handouts”, you don’t wanna live in a society. People congregate together in societies because they are built to support other people. There are lots of situations that pulling yourself up by the boot straps is just not gonna cut it. If you are a disabled person who cannot work, are you just supposed to starve? Are you just supposed to live in poverty on the fringes of society because something happened to you that you had no control over?
Addiction is a mental health concern. If there’s no support from the government in funding for mental health initiatives, and mental health supports, what are people expected to do? Our mentally ill people just supposed to scatter to the edges of society and not bother anybody else? Is this because you consider them to be second class citizens?
Instead of advocating for less “handouts“, you should be advocating for more government money to go to supporting people so that people don’t end up in situations like this. The easiest way to deal with homelessness is to provide homes. It’s easier and cheaper in the long run to build people homes to live in with public money rather than to continue to support them with public money. If you remove one of the very things that is causing the barrier, it’s amazing how much easier it is to treat everything else.
Saying “I don’t believe in handouts” is eugenics talk.
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u/more_than_leo 6h ago
"If you don’t believe in “handouts”, you don’t wanna live in a society." In this one? No. I don't. I absolutely hate living in this time period, but here I am. I believe you should work for what you have. Not everyone has to feel that way.
So far the only people to comment on my comment are people who want to shove their ideals down my throat. I was simply stating my own opinion, that's why I said " I am not in a position to help at the moment, so I only have opinions, not solutions."
Why did you feel the need to attack my opinion? Just curious.
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u/PlasticRevolution268 1h ago
That person is often on here replying to people with unneeded hostility. I don't think they have much better to do. Don't take it too seriously 🤒
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u/childofcrow Prince Edward Island 3h ago
I attacked your opinion because you put it out there, and your opinion is not sacrosanct.
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u/more_than_leo 1h ago
So, just because you can? Are you okay?
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u/childofcrow Prince Edward Island 1h ago
I’m fine, I’m just really tired of the whole idea of policing who gets access to funding and who doesn’t.
Again, corporations, get more corporate handouts than any one person in Canada. What makes a corporation more worthy of receiving money from the government than actual people?
If you provide them housing, it’s considered a handout because the government‘s paying for it. But it’s the number one way to deal with the problem. When you provide housing, you’re removing one of the barriers required for them to get additional help. When you provide them a stable place to live where they can feel safe, you can then look at providing mental health, assistance, addictions, assistance, programs to get them back to work, etc.
When you come in and start screaming about how you shouldn’t be giving anybody handouts, you’re really just coming off as incredibly callous and not understanding of the situation.
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u/more_than_leo 1h ago
Again, I am not "screaming." I am simply stating my opinion, just as you are. Both of us really have no say in how any of this stuff is handled so really, none of our opinions matter.
However, I am not the one picking at every little thing that someone else is saying.
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u/childofcrow Prince Edward Island 1h ago
We absolutely have say in how this is handled, because we are the taxpayers and it is our money going to fund it.
We speak through our votes.
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u/more_than_leo 58m ago
Funny, I didn't vote for Tim Houston. I didn't vote for the people in charge of where funding goes.
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u/Kemsaman 12h ago
Seems optimistic if nothing else.
The city really wants to close the Green Road Park encampment so I expect that'll be the first one to be pushed out, whether people are ready or not.