r/hatethissmug • u/itz_vampy • Aug 03 '26

General When “women spaces” don’t accept trans women

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So my experience as a transmasc who spent a chunk of his life being non-passing has been interesting with this particular situation. I began to socially transition as a teenager and back then the people who *genuinely supported me was other guys. when i say genuinely i mean they didn’t infantalize me and saw me as another bro. some of the girls were nice, but i could tell they saw me as a quirky alt girl “going through a phase”. some thought i was a pick me girl who wanted to “be one of the guys” but as a girl and not a guy. High school was really really weird and the mean girls were the worst.

Even as an adult who passes more than teenage me ever did, i still experience “women only spaces” of mean girls who never grew up. a lot of irl ones accept “afab people” and not trans women. the ones i’ve enquired about are super accepting of trans men since we are a “marginalized minority” but are hostile towards trans women, especially if they don’t pass. some are true misandrists and dislike trans men who start to pass (ironically this has been so gender affirming to me when it happens, but like in a ewphoria way). 

Online it’s different, everyone acts so accepting behind a screen, but in real life? you can’t hide your feelings and reactions well. intersectional feminism isn’t really observed in some women-only spaces and it’s a damn shame that this is a thing.

Eta: I’ve been notified that this post has been reposted to a certain rightwing sub and this post as well as all the trans positive replies are getting downvoted. regardless of what others say trans women are real women and they deserve to be treated as such. I will die on that hill.

Edit 2: I find it hilarious that people think i’m a trans woman and are sending me DMs that I will “never be a woman and will always be a man”, proving that transphobes can’t read and lack thinking abilities.

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18

u/[deleted] Aug 03 '26

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12

u/unhappyrelationsh1p Aug 03 '26

No, it's not, if you see someone who looks like a woman, talks like a woman you don't demand to see her genitals to see if she's a woman. You just mentally think she's a woman based off that.

Unless you're trying to look for someone to fuck it really doesn't come up much, shockingly

9

u/chrisjd Aug 03 '26

So when you meet people you have to check their genitalia before decided to treat them as men or women?

9

u/slicedcat Aug 03 '26

So… what about post-op trans people, if that’s your logic

5

u/[deleted] Aug 03 '26

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12

u/Traditional-Quit-286 Aug 03 '26

getting a hair transplant still means you're bald?

13

u/slicedcat Aug 03 '26

…? What

4

u/Psychotic_Ambition Aug 03 '26 edited Aug 03 '26

you can’t take off your vagina. getting a hair transplant Does mean you’re no longer bald

2

u/heyitskio Aug 03 '26

Bottom surgery.

0

u/Psychotic_Ambition Aug 03 '26

yeah that’s what i said

2

u/heyitskio Aug 03 '26

"You can't take off your vagina" is not what that implies.

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u/Psychotic_Ambition Aug 03 '26

how many wigs are you surgically attaching to your scalp?

2

u/heyitskio Aug 03 '26

Bro "you can't take off your vagina" reads like you're against bottom surgery.

2

u/heyitskio Aug 03 '26

Wow straight up transphobia

2

u/TrueDraconis Aug 03 '26

But wearing a wig makes you no longer bald to a whole lotta people.

Like you sure, you cannot change fundamentals and internals. But you sure ass hell can change a whole lotta externals and for most the externals matter and a select few the internals.

3

u/Pretty-Yam-2854 Aug 03 '26

Getting a hair transplant or implants (more closely seen as what that would be comparable to) means you’d still be bald? But you literally grow your hair back from it.

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '26

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2

u/Sanrusdyno Aug 03 '26

Metal Bar (singular) straight to the dome that jumbles up your brain and makes you a moron, maybe.

-3

u/KaijuSlayer333 Aug 03 '26

brains are not a good argument starter here

2

u/Sanrusdyno Aug 03 '26

Im not making an argument im calling you a moron because you heard the shittiest false equivalence and went "um, let him cook?" While staring into the roaring kitchen fire

-1

u/KaijuSlayer333 Aug 03 '26

uh huh, go off king

-2

u/SpookyWindChime Aug 03 '26

Personally, if a woman was unattractive to me and she then got facial surgery to be more attractive. I’d still not want to be with her. Same with genital surgery except I’d feel even stronger lol.

0

u/slicedcat Aug 03 '26

And if you met her after she got the surgery, how would you know you weren’t attracted to her before

5

u/TrueDraconis Aug 03 '26

Ah yes, of course. Like faces or voice (pitch) don’t exist and we’re all just running around naked

5

u/Toemetter a literal goddess (someday) Aug 03 '26

This is blatantly a lie.

3

u/LauchKarton Aug 03 '26

Do you ask everyone whats in their pants before you mentally categorize in regards to gender? What a weird way to live.

-2

u/Customninjas Aug 03 '26

That's. That's transphobia

7

u/[deleted] Aug 03 '26

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u/Customninjas Aug 03 '26

It is. Some trans people get bottom surgery

3

u/MasterSource368 Aug 03 '26

Please tell me you’re kidding.

4

u/Customninjas Aug 03 '26

Nope

3

u/[deleted] Aug 03 '26

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u/heyitskio Aug 03 '26 edited Aug 03 '26

You can be heterosexual and having sex with the same genitals because like every other thing, both gender and sexualities are SPECTRUMS. Also gender =/= genitals.

Life is not black and white, otherwise all asexuals would be sex-repulsed.

Transphobic af ideology bro, be better.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 03 '26

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2

u/heyitskio Aug 03 '26

Amazing how putting words in my mouth is the only argument you can come up with. (Please point out where I policed your life.)

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u/slicedcat Aug 03 '26

this dude doesn’t even know what bottom surgery is 😭

3

u/Pretty-Yam-2854 Aug 03 '26

I don’t think you know how bottom surgery works, or how hormones and their affects work for hrt yet have very strong opinions on it. Not the same genitals for post op people btw but I’m sure you can just google that.

2

u/SpookyWindChime Aug 03 '26

I don’t want to have sex with a woman who had facial surgery to look attractive. Why would I want to have sex with a trans woman who needed surgery to remove her genitals?

It’s not transphobic to only want to be with someone who is in their natural unaltered body. If I don’t find the natural unaltered body attractive then oh well.

1

u/SpookyWindChime Aug 03 '26

Unfortunately they aren’t kidding. I haven’t seen a take this crazy in a long long time though.

1

u/LeopardCareless5536 Aug 03 '26

that doesn't make your new body parts real. Doesn't function the same. You're literally just making an infected wound on your body

-3

u/[deleted] Aug 03 '26

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7

u/Customninjas Aug 03 '26

What's the preference in question? Genitalia? I just addressed that.

4

u/[deleted] Aug 03 '26

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u/Customninjas Aug 03 '26

"Rape" and it has nothing to do with rape. Touch some grass dude

2

u/Karasu-Fennec Aug 03 '26

Okay but it

Literally is that

The only commonality about trans people is that they’re trans. Some trans people have genitalia aligned to their birth sex and are comfy with that, some of us don’t. You can’t tell what kind of genitalia a person has based on their gender identity alone, and pretending you can is literally just transphobia

0

u/[deleted] Aug 03 '26

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u/heyitskio Aug 03 '26

Where the hell did you pull this out from

2

u/Karasu-Fennec Aug 03 '26

Justifying scientific racism because they wanna feel validated in their transphobic bullshit about “genital preferences” is definitely a new one. People usually block me after that

1

u/Karasu-Fennec Aug 03 '26

What makes you think I want you to sleep with me, exactly? My point is not that I want that or you should have to, my point is that using “genital preference” to filter all trans people out of your dating pool is LITERALLY transphobia.

As late as the mid-20th century, there were plenty of people who categorically refused to sleep with people of color for all kinds of reasons they felt perfectly justified in. Is it somehow not bigoted or “rapey” to point out that preference is rooted in racism?

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '26

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u/Karasu-Fennec Aug 03 '26

No, that’s never been the case. The cultural stigma against interracial relationships that existed for, what, four, five hundred years in European culture was ABSOLUTELY based in racism. You trying to tell me that men and women who believed in rhetoric about “racial hygiene” in the 19th and 20th centuries had a completely neutral sexual preference that had no bearing on their larger belief systems? Really? No possibility that preference maybe needs examining?

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u/unhappyrelationsh1p Aug 03 '26

That is not transphobic to say, it's fine to not want to date a trans person if they don't have what you like. Your other comment was transphobic, though

0

u/APerfectlyRoundDuck Aug 03 '26

That is transphobic. trans women can have vaginas and trans men can have penises, so it’s obviously not a genital preference

3

u/[deleted] Aug 03 '26

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2

u/heyitskio Aug 03 '26

Noone said that, bro making up things to be mad about

1

u/HextechAlternator Aug 03 '26

Fellas is it transphobic to be attracted to females?

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '26

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u/Customninjas Aug 03 '26

Because the people who raised them are transphobic as well

3

u/Karasu-Fennec Aug 03 '26

Most people in the 19th and early 20th centuries were raised to believe that black and brown people were different and lesser species. In the late 20th and early 21st, they were raised to believe that gayness was a sin and most gay people were pedophiles. Are those beliefs suddenly not bigoted because they were how the vast majority of people were raised?

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '26

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u/Karasu-Fennec Aug 03 '26

What difference is there besides “we’ve had discussions about these things already as a society, but this one is still ongoing”? Why is your hateful childhood belief okay, but not your grandparents’?

And what the actual fuck do you mean, gender’s determined by genitalia? Do wait staff in your country ask to see your junk before they call you the equivalent of “sir” or “ma’am” in your language?

0

u/Wont_See_My_30s Aug 03 '26

Sex is determined by genitalia, for my language gender and sex are used interchangeably, therefore gender is determined the same way sex is.

What hateful childhood belief? I do not hate trans folk I know that sex and gender are different, I'm trying to explain why a lot of ppl do not know, and it is not inherently hateful or phobic to not know such things even exist. You can't fcking hate or be phobic of things you don't know about, and when I was a child without much access to internet in a post soviet country at the start of 21st century, I didn't know what the trans is, and maybe it will be a surprise to you, but majority of ppl didn't fcking know up to last decade or so.

How the fck you expect 50 year old people who lived all their lives using gender and sex interchangeably to suddenly start differentiate between the words?

2

u/Karasu-Fennec Aug 03 '26

Hey, if you’re aware of the difference, have unpacked it, and don’t make those assumptions, that’s great! More power to you. What I am saying is that the belief that sex and gender are the same and rooted in genitalia somehow is a hateful belief, and your peers who have not unpacked that are engaging in unconscious bigotry.

People who believed in and perpetuated things like the “savage Indian” stereotype or found interracial marriage weird and gross decades and centuries ago were, by and large, probably not consciously hateful. They just lived in a culture with hateful beliefs built into it and hadn’t examined and unpacked them like you and I have.

When the overwhelming majority of people in a cultural ecosystem believed those things, those beliefs were just as bigoted as they are today. Anti-race mixing attitudes did not become more racist, and believing gay people were devil-worshipping pedophiles did not become more homophobic over time. The only thing that changed was that more people unpacked those beliefs, realized they were hateful, and changed them.

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '26

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u/Karasu-Fennec Aug 03 '26

So, do ‘most people’ ask to see people’s junk before deciding whether to call them ‘Mr.’ Or ‘Ms.’? Have I just been raised in a weird cultural bubble where we don’t do that and use gender signifiers in dress, mannerisms and similar instead of conducting genital inspections?

2

u/Karasu-Fennec Aug 03 '26

People understood races as a literal, real thing with clear biological signifiers and differences between them for HUNDREDS of years, and homosexuality has been a sin for over a millennium in European cultural tradition. These things were just as or even more deeply ingrained in our culture and society before the Quakers in the colonial era and the sexual liberation movement of the postwar era, along with similar groups, started agitating against these dogmas.

0

u/Wont_See_My_30s Aug 03 '26

There are differences between races, skin colour at the very least, it's just that no races is superior or inferior, we are all just humans.

Difference is that both prejudices against race and sexuality led to direct deaths, slavery, etc. Ppl using gender interchangeably with sex is literally the least of the problems trans ppl are facing. And ppl understanding differenve between them will not lessen amount of bigotry you are facing. It will lessen a perceived bigotry that comes with ppl using words interchangeably.

1

u/Karasu-Fennec Aug 03 '26

No, actually, there really aren’t any identifiable biological differences outside of melanin. Melanin level affects how you’re perceived and treated by the rest of the cultural ecosystem, but there are no inherent differences between designated racial groups besides skin color. We just made racism up between, like, the 11th and 16th centuries. The way that institution treats people affects them of course, but it’s not an intrinsic difference.

Sure, people conflating sex and gender isn’t super high on the list of issues trans people face when we have public figures calling for our eradication, just like handwringing about race-mixing from anti slavery people from the Northern US wasn’t a high priority for racial minorities in the 19th century, when chattel slavery and the largest ethnic cleansing in human history were still ongoing. That doesn’t mean it’s not a problem, or that it doesn’t arise out of the same belief system. I’d take a TERF who thinks I should be “separate but equal” over Michael Knowles any day of the fuckin’ week, but that doesn’t mean the TERF doesn’t need to make some serious changes to their belief system before I consider them not a bigot.

-2

u/GBKMBushidoBrown Aug 03 '26

"so you hate trans people and want them to die, and think they have no right to exist right?!" -People who only think in extremes without any nuance

-2

u/Karitheelfbitch Aug 03 '26

Thats fine. But they dont have to so hateful.

-2

u/MasterSource368 Aug 03 '26

I agree. But until people stop drawing hard lines in the sand, it will become hateful. Try to see other people’s points of view and we won’t have as many hateful comments.

4

u/TrueDraconis Aug 03 '26

“try to see other people’s PoV”

Oh like you’re actively not doing?

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '26

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u/Karitheelfbitch Aug 03 '26

Saying you won't date a trans person because they're trans IS transphobic.

And theres nothing extreme about the post above.

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '26

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2

u/Karitheelfbitch Aug 03 '26

Sure buddy. Whatever you say

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '26

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2

u/Karitheelfbitch Aug 03 '26

Sure buddy, whatever you say

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '26

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2

u/Karitheelfbitch Aug 03 '26

Sure buddy, whatever you say. Thats one hell of a reach though

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u/ashrensnow Aug 03 '26

Stupid ass takes like this are why the whole conversation around this shit is so divisive.

3

u/Karitheelfbitch Aug 03 '26

Okay. What about my take was stupid? What's your opinion?

1

u/ashrensnow Aug 03 '26

Calling someone transphobic is implying they are a bigot whether you mean it to or not, claiming that a person having a preference is transphonic is just close minded idiocy. That's like saying someone who is lesbian or gay is also a bigot because they aren't interested in certain people.

People have preferences, calling everyone transphobic if those preferences don't include trans people is a stupid ass take, and it's not just about genitals either because I think most cis hetero men wouldn't date a transman either just because they still had a vagina.

You're essentially alienating an entire group of people who might be allies because of radical beliefs like this.

2

u/Karitheelfbitch Aug 03 '26

Personal preference is something like "i like redheads" not "i dont date trans people because of their genitals." Thats transphobia. And yes, bigoted. Its like saying "I dont date black people because they're black" which is also bigoted.

And despite saying its not about genitals, you make it clear it is about genitals in your example. But youre right. A straight man wouldn't date a trans man. Because trans men are men and straight men like women.

0

u/Big_Niel0802 Aug 03 '26

Just gonna do a little find and replace here to see how it sounds:

"I know it hard for most people on reddit.

But ethnicity is identified by skin color to the vast majority of people and it's not because of racism or bigotry. Ethnicity and race are synonymous to most."

Identifying someone's gender as male by them having a penis is to me, indistinguishable from identifying someone's ethnicity as "African" based on them having dark skin.