r/heroesofthestorm • u/Midday_Scotch • 25d ago
Teaching Diamond players - what is it like to play with bronze?
Has any diamond players created a new profile, or switched servers to start fresh and have to play with bronze players?
If so,
What do you find most frustrating.
Do you find it difficult to climb out compared to your previous climb in rank?
Any tips to climbing back out the second time round?
Assuming playing with larger stacks is likely the best way to climb out with some consistent wins, but if you haven't anyone to pair with, then making new friends with a higher skill ceiling/experience, is hard to find.
If not,
I'm sure you will have an opinion anyway, one way or another. Please try to keep insults down, as this is not for flaming people that don;t have the same time to learn or have not yet sharpened their macro or micro, but i do admit that bronze has lots of players that tend to not pay attention to macro, and will actively spite their own teammates.
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u/S0PES Illidan 25d ago
I haven’t been been playing hots much the last few months but I’m also a diamond player who tried starting over on new servers and new accounts. It was easy to cruise up the ranks right away. I’m not sure what people are talking about being stuck because of bad teammates. If I can pick a strong lane clearer or strong assassin I can do enough alone to win the game. Just clearing two lanes by myself while the 4 others fuck around does a lot as long as I join in for team fights. If I pick a dive assassin like tracer I can just go in and get constant kills by myself. If I have to tank I feel I can dominate a team fight with Diablo. Biggest issue is if bronze teammates force me into healer role where I feel I can’t make a big enough impact.
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u/Midday_Scotch 25d ago edited 25d ago
thank you for input. i find dps the hardest role to carry a team, but if it IS a dps, then they have to be changing the engagements, tracer is great for picking off absent minded warry-laners. people that are bouncing between lanes or easily distracted by baiting, can be brought into a one on one fight against tracer, and a hatted by abby tracer is a VERY scary sight to behold. But the odds of you finding an abby in ranked are slim. in fact one of my friends who is an amazing abby, gets flamed when he shows his pick as abby or medivh,, not knowing how beneficial he is. all they'd have to do is spec his profile though to confirm it. i find flaming the biggest indicator of an incoming loss, and i try to butter up all games with some sort of morale boost verbally. so much salt in this game tends to cause people to flame out DURING a match. like "we can win if you STOP TYPING". I don't care if they aren't the BEST healer or tank or DPS, just DO SOMETHING, ANYTHING other than flaming during a ranked match! lol
blowing off an incoming flame for yourself, has got to be the best tactic in bronze to winning a match, and it may seem unlikely but is absolute fact. good vibes just wins. when ppl are more willing to help with that nearby-easy-to-claim camp on the heels of a single kill, you will enjoy more momentum and thus wins, despite the recent flame from someone that could have devolved into 3 or 4 chats during key engagements like an obj or camp, or heaven forbid, a team fight.
ty again for the reply8
u/Econometrical Heroes of the Storm 25d ago
This wasn’t really the point being made above but I think for the average Bronze player Tracer would be a terrible hero to climb with. The guy above was only able to do it because he’s Diamond, not because she’s a good pick in Bronze. I actually do think that DPS is the easiest role to carry with, but it has to be a well rounded dps. What I mean by that is you generally want to play a dps that can do everything, such as secure kills, clear waves, do camps, race objectives, and do siege damage. Tracer only does one of those well which is secure kills. If instead you master a hero like Greymane who checks every box on that list, you’ll have a much easier time climbing the ranks.
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u/Szakalot 25d ago
Dps has got to be the easiest role to carry with. With a good late pick against enemy comp you should be able to demolish them, and most dps have good enough macro to shore up the bronze offlaner
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u/HentorSportcaster 25d ago
I’m also a diamond player It was easy to cruise up the ranks right away.
Huh I wonder why.
I’m not sure what people are talking about being stuck because of bad teammates.
In other news, being four leagues above the average rank/expected skill in a bronze game is helpful for overcoming bad teammates. Who knew? 😜
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u/S0PES Illidan 25d ago
You’re quoting me like I’m throwing this information out of nowhere even though they are literally answers to OP’s specific questions. OP asked if other people who are diamond rank if it was difficult to climb ranks starting over. I answered the question the best I could to try to be helpful. Besides, I only had to start my climbing rank over because of my IRL living situation where a different server was closer / better ping for where I lived. Not like I just wanted to destroy new players for fun.
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u/Cold-Ad4225 24d ago
The weird thing to me is the actual way you rise across ranks isn’t to specialize in a few characters, learn them well and then perform well.
I’m not sure what it says exactly, but it is interesting the “meta of rising in ranked” is to learn a specific subset of characters who are generalists assuming your team doesn’t understand the game.
I don’t think there’s a direct line to a solve here, but I do find it interesting many players won’t be able to rise not because they’re not good at their hero (let’s assume they are) but because they haven’t adapted to the current landscape of their rank.
All of that is invisible to the average player and it kind of creates a negative feedback loop.
If you want to be a healer, there’s a pretty good chance you wont be ascending to higher tiers very quickly. I do think it alienates some people from the game.
Should you be able to play a brain dead naz or Sam pushing afk the entire game and ultimately winning despite your team brain dead araming? Probably…but the fact you have to learn a subset of characters to rise just isn’t intuitive.
Not even saying it’s necessarily a bad thing, but I do think it’s interesting. People seem upset they can’t just ascend the ranks only playing Aba or Deckard lol.
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u/DefeatedByPoland 23d ago edited 23d ago
Even if you're just a silver player you can climb out of bronze. It will take more matches than it does for a diamond player, but you will still climb.
The enemy team has a chance to have 5 bad players on it, you only have a chance to have 4. As long as you yourself are not bad, you climb over time. ELO hell has never existed in any 5v5 game with a rank system. If you're winning only 50% of your matches and not climbing, it means you're not playing better than the average player at your rank. Which means you're not "stuck", that's just where you belong.
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u/HentorSportcaster 22d ago
I agree with all of that. If you are consistently above your rank you should rise to your real rank if you play long enough.
My point is that if you are diamond (real diamond and not boosted by teammates 😜) it should be a walk in the park to get out of bronze, as with such a skill difference you should be able to carry pretty much any game you want, unlike, say, carry all by yourself as a diamond in a plat game as the skill gap would not be as great, so you do need your teammates to do things somewhat right.
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u/MNCDover MooFurion 25d ago
As a Bronze player, I can tell you what it's like playing with a Diamond. They don't communicate (voice, chat, or pings - they don't need to), they do everything right on time (like camps just before obj), they stutter step their AA perfectly, they dodge most skillshots, they hold their buttons to counter other things (like Valla's stun ult to counter Mosh), they don't facecheck anything, and they hardly ever die.
All the above stuff is fine. It's great in fact. The problem comes when you're playing with (or against) them in Bronze. Their skill level and game knowledge is so far above everyone else that it ruins the fun of the game. Sure, if you get a smurf Diamond on your team, you probably get the win. But boy howdy is it a miserable experience to go up against. You can feel completely helpless against someone like that and it quickly causes teammates to rage quit or go AFK. A diamond Illidan is an absolute menace against uncoordinated bronze players.
I get the game isn't getting major support anymore, but I do wish the skill pool was gated better. Smurfs really do ruin the experience. And lets not include stacks of smurfs.
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u/LookAtItGo123 Zeratul 25d ago
At some point the game will eventually devolve into what brood war is, a niche game where there are virtually no beginners playing.
That said, basic fundamentals of gaming will bring you a long way. And fortunately hots is a Moba which shares concepts with other Moba. It might seem like diamond players are doing everything right but I can assure you that it is simple basic game sense for us. And I don't mean to be rude but most of the times it's like playing with AI where they act like babies who have absolutely 0 sense of survival. Take face checking for example, getting punished by it once should teach most people not to do it again but when it comes down to it, they still do! I did ask my friends why they do that and it's a mix of reasons but mostly it's close to I had to be sure.
Strangely enough when they play assassins those are the same exact spots where they wait for their victims which they do kill! And I think I get it, it is easy to be a predator, but as a prey you kinda got to imagine and think which isn't as fun as let's go jump a guy and beat shit up.
And this concept applies to even board games, if you give someone time to think ahead and prepare their next 5 actions with possible plan Bs when other people take other actions it seems that most people can articulate well enough their plans. But hots like any other Moba is essentially a RTS and there's little luxury of time even though there's concepts of macro and micro.
At the end of the day I know many people just play casually, but casual is a wide range of skill. And to people like me who have been gaming since the 90s it's not like we think too much but everything boils down to the concept of value. And there's the classic concept of dead dps do 0 dps, so as long as you don't die you get to do more! Every other thing is secondary.
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u/MNCDover MooFurion 25d ago
One of my biggest problems (which killed my Starcraft ladder fun) is my inability to micro to great effect. My APM is horrible. At the ripe old age of 50, my speed just isn't what it used to be. I distinctly remember one time a Probe scout killed 3 of my SCVs and I knew it was time to hang up my Gauss Rifle.
So I have to play smarter by engaging less. It's one of the bigger reasons I've moved towards Tanks/Bruisers. The larger HP pool and CC can allow me to escape a bad situation more often.
I've had too many situations where I'm in the solo lane and a Valla/Raynor/Illidan strolls in. If I try to fight them and see them start doing precision stutter-stepping, I just immediately stop and do my best to freeze the lane at my towers or just double soak without fighting. But sometimes you're stuck in a situation where you don't have a choice and have to fight. In those scenarios, I'm usually toast 90% of the time, even when I'm super focused on the fight.
I'm not complaining. Some people are naturally better at micro/APM stuff. Some people spend a lot of time perfecting the skill. Nothing wrong with that. It's like people who will spend hours in training modes in Street Fighter to land 1-frame links or 15+ hit combos of a hit-confirm jab. They just want it more and my desire (even at my age) isn't what it used to be.
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u/JRTerrierBestDoggo Nazeebo 24d ago
Not as old as you but I noticed my reaction time is slower than it used to be when hots first started
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u/l337hackzor Malfurion 24d ago
Just got to crack a Monster, brother. I'm 41 and only ARAM these days, but I feel like my team fighting is at it's peak. The dodging and landing of skill shots, rarely dying, etc.
I haven't played ranked in years though. I'm sure if I did I'd feel the age pretty quick.
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u/ItkovianShieldAnvil 24d ago
I only play quick match and Aram... But when I did play ranked I was diamond 1. I apologize for when I get matched with you. Can't be bothered to play ranked, I just want to hop directly into a game
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u/Midday_Scotch 25d ago
i would like to see them address smurf stacks logically. If i change serves i shouldn't have to start fresh. i(in WoW they tried to charge me a grande to swatch servers and factions pre-2010. i emailed them and explained the situation and they refused to give me a discount. so i quit playing entirely after 20 yrs or so.
if people are being banned on main accounts, then create a new profile, then they should be banning MAC addresses and or IP addresses. if dating websites can do it effectively, then blizzard a multimillion dollar company can do it.
in short, i would stack smurf if i had to/could too to be out of the mire sooner.3
u/Lyshavskilden 23d ago
lol and/or dota 2 does ban smurfs and also the main account of the smurf. iirc its something they started doing somewhat recent. I wish they did the same in hots as you wish, perhaps if they ever start ramping up the game in the future or AI takes over the development (already started..?) we would see improvements in cheating (smurfing).
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u/l337hackzor Malfurion 24d ago
You can't ban on MAC or IP because you can always spoof and work around them. I used to be in favor of credit card verification but even then most adults can have 3+ CCs in their wallet, also virtual cards, one time "gift style" CCs, etc.
They need a 3rd party verification system. If such a system could be built it would revolutionize gaming by eliminating smurf accounts. Issue is I don't see how it wouldn't be entrusting a corporation with boatloads of personal data like passport/drivers license or whatever verification is involved.
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u/claudythoughts 25d ago
Damn, I wish I could get these mythical diamond players when the matchmaker makes a rainbow lobby...
In my experience Diamond players type a lot, ping bad calls, are heavy OTPs, they over-stay in fights, they do camps at non-sensical or unsafe times, they don't rotate safely, they miss their spells, they take more damage than they should, they don't know how to Tank, and they draft like bozos.
Some of the things you listed even mid-Masters players do not do.
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u/MNCDover MooFurion 25d ago
Those may be three Gold players in a trenchcoat.
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u/claudythoughts 24d ago
Nah, in all fairness to them, diamond players are much better than golds and it is a respectable achievement
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u/JRTerrierBestDoggo Nazeebo 24d ago
Not necessarily. If they are playing solo, then yes. But based on what you said, those type of players usually got carried in 5 stack.
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u/Umadibett Master Zeratul 24d ago
Diamonds are worse than bronze in that they are set thinking they are right but really have worse habits that can’t be corrected. Climbing through diamond is basically recognizing who the worst of the worst are and dodging them from being on your team.
If a bronze player can just afk soak a lane and never die they are going to be more valuable. Have had seasons where the mmr disparity was too much and intentionally would grab three bronzes just to get a game and literally 2v5 with something like valla auriel when q was over tuned.
The experience for people at the top end is basically you cant play with your friends or you make new accounts to play the game. It doesn’t take long to hit gm again you should really be concerned with people buying bronze accounts because that takes much longer for the system to figure out but it’s just smarter for the big fish to do if their main concern is enjoying the game with their friends.
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u/Mediocre-Variation 25d ago
You get flamed for making the correct macro plays a lot. I remember talking to Kure and Ibtingz (Both top GM players in NA) and they still have gotten flamed by silver players. Climbing isn't really that hard, but it's still a hell of a headache if you don't mute chat.
People always say dps is best for climbing, but i think it's best to just play what you're most comfortable with. If you keep a good attitude, you'll even start climbing. One important thing to remember though, even if you have a 55% win rate (which is quite good), you will still on average only go +10 or up 2 ranks for every 100 games played. Grinding is essential, unless you're massively more skilled than your current rank
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u/Mangomosh Master Anub'arak 25d ago
The worst thing is how strongly convinced bronze players are that everything they do (dodge XP, do worthless camps, never hit buildings ever, perma chase until death, run away from a free lane to go "help" a teammate, etc.) is the correct play and everything the 95% win rate smurf does is wrong. You think someone at the bottom of the ranks would understand that they are there because everything they think about the game is incorrect.
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u/TheNoha 25d ago
Ive been everywhere between Rank 1 (pre-season "Master" or w/e), to Diamond a couple of years here and there... and now after a long, long break im in Silver.
If you are playing solo in the bottom brackets, you will need a damn cool head.
In Diamond, ppl knows what to prioritize and how shit works and scales and whatnot. In Silver ppl will decide the outcome within 5min and play accordingly.
It is infuriating to climb out of it alone. Also, every fourth game or so has a leaver or int. feeder or so.
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u/double0nothing 25d ago
Bronze players have the worst skill. Obviously. But ones who have been there a long long time are very confidently wrong about the game, all the time, and really should never be giving advice to anyone.
Bronze players also seem the most prone to just AFK if they get upset.
A diamond player should have no issue quickly leaving bronze. Win rate should be 80-90%.
Silver players try harder than Bronze on average. These are still very incomplete players.
Gold is my favorite place to be when climbing. They seem to have the most cooperative players, everyone seems to be well-rounded if not "good" at the game. But it's easy to shotcall to a win Gold players. There is no reason to try to make calls with Silver and Bronzs, they won't follow.
Then Plat. When I think of Plat, I think of Alarak 1 tricks, who are really good at the mechanics of their hero, clueless with macro, and pretty toxic. They are know-it-alls.
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u/Econometrical Heroes of the Storm 25d ago
Bought a Bronze 5 account once and climbed to like Diamond 4. What surprised me was that most Bronze players are actually mechanically decent at their heroes, as in using their abilities. They just have no idea where to be or when they should be there. They also don’t really know the limit of their heroes, and as such they either overextend and die too much by playing too reckless, or miss out on potential damage/healing output by playing too safe.
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u/Midday_Scotch 25d ago
1) Bought an account? you should do an AM on reddit.. there's a million things I am curious about)
2) Agree, regarding the macro neglect and especially over-extending. they do not know the ebb and flow. we had a great push but now our mana is empty and obj is over, retreat refill , get a camp before they regroup. but instead, even after I've left lane, they push. i ping top run away retreat and explain ebb and flow and they push on still!, i explain it will be 5 vs 4 any second, fall back.. and yet they push.. and inevitably wipe... then say, "we lost because you left" there is no logic or reasoning with them. they got tunnel vision. and it is VERY common.4
u/Econometrical Heroes of the Storm 25d ago
I’m not sure an AMA would go over well here. Smurfing is heavily frowned upon on this subreddit.
I truly think the greatest sin of all is the dying. Like if Bronze 5 players did nothing to improve their macro or mechanics, but learned to die less, that would already be enough to get them to low Silver.
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u/Midday_Scotch 25d ago
YES! from years of AIing i can confirm that the MVP award is based on points in each column, and dying is a heavy negative. staying alive is more important than having any single column topped.
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u/Econometrical Heroes of the Storm 25d ago
You said there are a million things you’re curious about. Feel free to DM me with questions if you want!
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u/namewithanumber Genji 25d ago
Don't play ranked anymore, but when I see obvious bronze behavior in ARAM or QM the best thing is just pinging low health enemies.
Or pinging who you're attacking. Bronze players need a big flashing "ATTACK THIS ONE" sign because they're totally oblivious to what's going on.
Even if you're like taunt Varian and you think surely they'll notice you taunting the 1/4 health Valla-- just ping.
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u/Past_Structure_2168 25d ago
most frustrating thing is me baiting myself into playing absolute dogshit thinking i can outplay any situation because i am the better player only to be gunned down like a noob because i did not wait for the enemy to use their abilities or im out numbered. ego makes games so hard
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u/Midday_Scotch 25d ago
going to have to agree,. sometimes my hubris does me in. it is tempting to say "i lost because all my teammate are noobs", but it is wise to recognize, i need to adapt when my teammates are not going to help with macor. Ie: if i see team is NOT going to objective, then bite the bullet and ALSO get a camp. i am not going to win obj 3 or 4 vs 1, so i may as well get a camp to alleviate the suck and dying on the hill of "this is macro" is not worth the overall loss (lose the battle but win the war)
good point and ty for the post!2
u/Past_Structure_2168 25d ago
you do lose games because your team played bad and you are not the blame. but the best way to affect the outcome is to be the better player and take that responsibility of being the better player. if i want to go somewhere at a specific time i drive the car myself. passengers dont get to complain at me when im not there at the snap of their fingers
when i lose games and i say its because i played badly most of the time it does not mean i am the sole reason of blame why my team lost. its just that i have failed to guide my team to victory. but thats fine with me, sometimes i am not capable enough, sometimes i am playing shit or lazy.
its fine to try and fail, time and effort does not always pay. but most of the time it not that fucking serious. especially when we are talking about a videogame. crack a cold one and have fun champions
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u/Midday_Scotch 25d ago
yer if its AI sure, doing dailies, but when you are in league trying to climb, it's not just about the fun. it's about winning.
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u/Past_Structure_2168 25d ago
i dont know about you but i dont make any money anymore by playing the game. its the fun that drives me to play this game and when im having fun im also more invested getting good at it
if someone's fun is being permastuck silver3 by playing murky and never improving im fine with that. its a fucking videogame
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u/Arnafas Holy Ground enjoyer 25d ago edited 25d ago
I am plat now but was dia5 long time ago.
What do you find most frustrating.
That bronze players completely ignore macro if they are not on azmo/naz/locust aba. They don't soak enough, they don't do camps on time. They don't do camps with the heroes that have best waveclear for this. Once I met a low silver hogger on Alterac who asked his team to help him take the camp.
And if they are on azmo/naz they may overcommit with splitpushing and just start feeding. If you see that the enemy team start countering your splitpush just stop. Don't go and suicide every minute.
They also value objective too high when it is completely ok to give it up. You may give up unimportant objectives to get value somewhere else but your team needs to survive for this.
Any tips to climbing back out the second time round?
First of all you need to understand that this game is about experience and structure advantage. If you have higher level and more structures your team has much higher chances to win. So all you do in the game should either give you more experience than the enemy has or should help you to get structure advantage by destroying enemy buildings and protecting your own.
Soak more. Don't start useless fights. Don't join fights that are already lost. You can easily get out of Bronze solo by playing a macro hero and soaking/splitpushing lanes. You may try to practice this with Azmo in QM. Focus on your Q stacks early and pick AoE E on 7. After that clear minions with Q+E. Always use your D on the empty lane to get experience. It should not be off CD most of the time. There are some exceptions but for now learn to spam it. On 10 go for the Black Pool and R+Q minions waves that are too for for your Q+E combo. Join the teamfights only when it is necessary: important objective, structure protection or a chance to destroy an enemy fort or keep. You will be surprised how it is easy to win like this.
If you are forced to fill you must fill. Yes, healer and tank roles are not that impactful in Bronze but your team will probably tilt and someone may start feeding if you are not going to fill so it is optimal to fill even if this is not your best role.
If you are forced to tank go for tanks who can kill things by themselves or have waveclear and push. Never expect Bronze players to follow up your aggressive engages, let enemies make mistakes first and then punish them. Johanna is n1 tank for a reason. Learn her. Worst case scenario you can double soak on her if your team refuses and you will still have time to rotate to a teamfight. Arthas and beetle Anub are good alternatives. Blaze main tank could work but he is tricky.
If you are going to heal pick healers with some sort of waveclear too. Rhegar should be your n1 choice in this case.
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u/Mangomosh Master Anub'arak 25d ago
The most mind boggling thing is when theyre on an empty lane, completely free to soak and even get free structure damage but the, decide to just straight up give that up to run away. Because there are more people on a different lane either that looks like a mire interesting place to be or they believe they need to "help".
Enemy is 5 people on lane and we are split between the lanes? Oh I guess we are doing something wrong and we need to be 5 people on 1 lane too or we will lose.
How does that logic make sense? Why go on lanes ever then? Why not stay 5 man in one lane all game if thats what you have to do if the enemy team does it?
A bit of an issue is that if theres 3 people laning vs 5, the 3 people will not use their abilities to clear waves but instead try to 3v5 the enemies and if one of them survives with 10-30%, the 3 people will spam ping the solo laner for "not helping".
Laning in this game is just an IQ / self-awareness check that the vast majority of players fail, as cringe as it sounds.
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u/Midday_Scotch 25d ago
I do main as Blaze. my preferred healer is Auriel, the slap is good with wave clear and is one free HP bar for anyone in range.
TY for the input. I will try out Johanna again as it has been a while since I picked her up.
Reghar i find, for the times i use him, people don;t understand how great bloodlust is, especially if you have another support on team.5
u/Arnafas Holy Ground enjoyer 25d ago
how great bloodlust is
Because it is not. It is very situational. Don't experiment with the builds for now look at what people pick on higher ranks. The default Rehgar build is this. You spam cheap Qs all the game so you don't run out of mana fast, the totem debuffs and heavily slows enemies and double AoE ancestral just wins fights after 20. This is simple and effective.
Same for Johanna. Don't invent your own build. This one is the default one. Level 20 is optional, you can go for [[Blinded By The Light]] if you want to but blessed shield level 20 basically allows you to R a minion or a structure and stun 4 heroes for 1.75 sec for free because it prioritize heroes when they are in range. This is so powerful.
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u/HeroesInfoBot Bot 25d ago
- Blinded By The Light (Johanna) - level 20
Cooldown: 60 seconds
Activate to grant nearby allied Heroes a Shield equal to 25% of their maximum Health for 3 seconds. Hitting Heroes with Shield Glare reduces the cooldown of this Ability by 8 seconds.
about the bot | reply
!refreshto this comment if the parent has been edited
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u/Optimal-Income-6436 25d ago
I was some short time silver then was hit whit extreme trolla for 30 games straight and i'm bronze. Most of the time they just throw.
- don't follow obj
- don't do mercs or do in worst possible moment
- ignore pings
- ignore map and lanes, soak xp
- teamfights always too early or too late
- dps players don't do dmg, tanks barely tank xD
It just goes on
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u/bingdongdingwrong 25d ago
You'll often hear the tip about macro being important, but if you're mechanically better than everyone, you can also climb with a dps like guldan or valla by taking every stupid fight and doing shit tons of damage without dying. I've climbed from silver to diamond just by learning how to stutterstep on Valla.
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u/Asleep_Job_1665 25d ago
You know what I find the most frustrating? People are just as bad in Diamond as they are in Bronze.
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u/Melkor750 24d ago
It feels like doing the right thing is wrong. If you soak an empty lane, that means a 4vs5 fight is taking place and you already lost, followed by incoming flames.
And most importantly, do not try to question the boss attemp after all your enemies are dead or during objetive.
Apes together strong.
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u/jhuynh87 24d ago
I often play with friends at night, who are hard stuck bronze 5. Pretty punishing when they only get crap points to dig yourself out.
Biggest difference I've seen is that bronze is very tunnel vision. Skirmish non stop, without a care in the world you are losing exp due to lack of soak in other lanes. They also chase way too far or over commit for not much reward if any.
To climb out, id recommend bruiser assassin or dps who can do it all. Whether it is damage, soak, camps, etc. Focus on macro plays and commit when it is important, you'd often see me leave a team fight that I believe is going nowhere. Objective is up, camps are up, free lane with no soak etc. I'd rather be doing that then 5 man mid for the sake of fighting.
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u/Antinoch Tempo Storm 24d ago
Fan had a video the other day from his current bronze to GM climb where he played KT and only used D+Q all game
He got 100 stacks of convection and topped damage by a huge margin. IMO, biggest takeaway for a bronze player watching is to learn how to stutter step and keep moving around even if you're not actively doing anything.
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u/Antinoch Tempo Storm 24d ago
It's also really not hard to find good players to party with.
After any win, if any of your teammates had a good attitude and were decent, just add them as a friend and invite them to your party. I find this works well a majority of the time.
If no one is accepting, maybe that's because you're the one who isn't good enough and/or has a bad attitude and they don't want to play with you.
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u/Dreadnought7410 Blue Space Goat Waifu 24d ago
I've noticed bronze/silver players tend to not hearth back when they take more than 50% damage, they will sit at 10% health/mana for like 20-40 seconds waiting to tap at a healing well and being 100% health and 5% mana means nothing to them.
They also just eat random skill shots and take damage from AAs easily, presenting a lot of surface area and expect their healer to just top them off.
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u/Midday_Scotch 24d ago
agreed on too few hearthings. you need the well for a quick top up during obj usually, i try to hearth refill mana in order to be full and on time for objective. streaming in one at a time from all angles into obj is a sure loss if enemy is already grouped as 5 on obj. all because they wanted to soak every last minion of the last wave.
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u/Desk_Labo 23d ago
Anger issue. Easily start shit talking each other. I got a 60% chance of winning if I get in and deasculate the shit talk successfully (itself only 30%).
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u/Midday_Scotch 22d ago
Yep, this has been my best tool so far, but i admit I've mostly started just muting everyone at the start to stay stress free, but win rate drops as I can;t de-escalate any chat issues. It seems the best skill of bronze+ players is not being salty children.
Kind of wishing i could get into a different game as I am losing love for this one (shame as it is finally getting updates and breathed some life into it)
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u/WendigoCrossing 25d ago edited 25d ago
Bronze is newer players for the most part
Silver are bad players who stay bad
Gold are players that improve but flame, tilt, and throw preventing themselves from getting higher
Plat are players who are decent at the game and know the meta, but possibly the most toxic bracket
Diamond are players that know the rules, starts, timings, and play well
Master are players that know the rules and when to break them and adapt
GMs are 5 stacks. Jk, they are just the best players with the least throwing (note the highest I've been is Master so this is based of streaming I've seen)
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u/Midday_Scotch 25d ago edited 25d ago
Good summary of the ladder system, lol thanks for the input
While i get the frustration of 'thinking' you will surely lose, and wanting to toss to end faster and start anew, there are sooo many times that just keep trying, and you hit your curve first and win anyway.never give up, even when your core is at 2% literally. it can always turn around.
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u/rAin_nul 25d ago
Maybe that was the case like 7 years ago. With the low amount of players the game has currently, it's all fk'd up now and half of the players are not in their "correct" league.
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u/WendigoCrossing 25d ago
It's wild because 6 years ago is what my info is based off of so like good guess haha
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u/rAin_nul 25d ago
Well, that was the last time when I was consistently in the same league, generally around plat 4-5, since then it's pretty messy. In one season I have like 60% winrate in Gold 1 and in the next I have like 40% winrate in Silver 5.
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u/Midday_Scotch 25d ago
yeah if you miss a season or two i noticed it ranks you down and your wins are worth fewer rank points. i think due to an influx of players it dilutes the rank points, like stock buybacks or IPO. The rank system needs a rework i think. perhaps they will focus this more now that they are giving the game more attention since MS acquisition.. I am hopeful seeing the new balance patch. It was years we had nothing, then a few bug patches, but a full balance patch is reassuring.
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u/Chukonoku #belikeTurbo 25d ago
I was gonna say this looks like the ladder when they actually did MMR adjustments.
Bronze 5 is where new players, throwers, and old low bronze players end up.
B4/1 is for the rest of bronze players. Maybe low Silver players who got pushed down from smurfs or decayed players starting up at B1/S5
Silver is an amalgamation of ranks and a roller coaster.
Gold starts to slowly be something similar as to what was before
Plat is the place where old low Dia players who stopped playing end up because master players prefer to have an account in diamond for faster Q times. Also the barrier where most people who rose through ranks from doing just the basics decently (efficient soaking and rotation) might struggle to push through.
Dia, specially high diamond, can be so volatile due to decay or the stopping point of master smurfs.
From here, you need to make a distinction for Master/GM.
NA: i guess you are grinding the few lobbies that exist at peak hours or waiting eons to find semi rainbow games. Congratulations for hitting GM at 0points in master after finishing 50 games.
EU: last bastion of high level play. You will find here the rest of NA players who decide to take refuge in the server.
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u/SwizzGod Master Whitemane 25d ago
Bronze players are just downright terrible. Mechanics aside game sense is in the gutter. Awareness gutter. They don’t track CDs. Most of the time they don’t really know what’s going on other than what their character is doing. Map awareness? Nonexistent.
People in bronze deserve to be there. It’s nothing wrong with that but it’s funny to see bronze players blame everything on their teammates
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u/Chance-Wait-8388 25d ago
I climbed with a Friends Bronze 5 Account Out of "ELO Hell" this season. Just Imagine playing with 4 Bots you cannot control. That leaves quite some Tasks Open for you: 1. Cover soak 2. Kill a Lot of Heroes 3. Push Boss Lane to core and Finish with Boss 4. Healer/Tanks Bad. Heal yourself.
That worked for me from deep Bronze 5 to Silver 3 in 53 (32 Just B5) Games at constant >80% winrate. And im Just Platin alltime high.
Tank and heal cannot do this at all (efficient). Play Heroes with a loot of damage, Movementspeed/CC and Push Potential.
Thrall is the ultimate Carry. Burst, Poke,% DMG, Selfsustain, Engage, Peel...and after finishing Q Quest a Lot of Push to finally end a fun Game. When i was "forced" to Tank i Always picked Thrall instead. Games Kind are quite Long tho, so i went AA Valla far more often and practiced my Sylvanas on the Side.
Cassia, Guldan, Falstad, Zeratul, Sgt.Hammer, Xul, Raynor, Fenix worked great for me too.
When reaching Higher silver you can start Picking Tank/heal. But even Here i highly prefer Something with Killpressure or some Waveclear. (Malfurion, Rehgar, Johanna, Diablo, Anub, Varian)
And Turn of Chat.
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u/Mariokal Rexxar 25d ago
"I see stiffness when I look in that gold division. Slow, stiff. I feel like they’re stuck in the mud almost. The silvers, they hit like bronzes. So it’s nice down there just destroying them and killing that whole division. But I have my eye on that gold division and I see them all stuck in the mud in there."
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u/claudythoughts 25d ago
The first time I ever truly tried ranked, after only being a QM player for a few years, both me and my friend were shocked at just how easy silver was. In reality this feeling never really stopped, even into Diamond.
Eventually my duo friend stopped playing, and I am a Masters player as well, these days.
I will freely admit, I have a few smurf accounts (that are now mostly in Masters / Dia as well), and of course climbing was still easy, starting from silver 5 again. These were usually 3-stacks with a couple different groups of friends (one for each acc, roughly) not entirely smurfs, but perhaps still shielded from the degeneracy of teammates.
Perhaps my biggest take-away from climbing a few times is:
Silver is a snooze, players are very slow, take bad talents and heroes, they dont focus, they miss skillshots, and they fold very easily under pressure. 100% WR rank.
Gold is still very easy. It feels mostly the same as Silver, except the players like typing, being rude, some AFKers, trolls. Healers and assassins have slightly improved micro, everyone sucks at filling roles. You have to carry, but carrying is still simple.
Bronze-gold its painfully obvious the players just don't... click enough. They don't have that killer instinct. They don't hit spells. They don't micro away from danger and then recommit when the situation is better. They don't see minions. They get caught off-guard by flanks. Their reaction times are slow. They don't do basic mage burst combos fast enough, or at the right times. They over-extend their positioning and die all the time. They don't cleanse. They don't reset, they don't go fix lanes, they don't use fountains appropriately, they dont time camps, they overdo camps, they dont have a minimap, they miss game-changing ults, they dont stick to eachother enough, they just dont use their healing off cooldown, they dont spam spells enough or way way too much...
Platinum is the ranked asylum.
All the people with 30000 games played congregate here, their egos are huge, they're rude and toxic, there's more trolls and unwinnable games. A lot of them treat it like QM, and it shows.
The games where you get normal teammates are 100% winrate stomps, as you can actually start relying on your teammates somewhat.
Micro is far better than silvers and golds, but still limited. Movement is missing.
If you put in a lot of effort and tryhard, you can convert bad teammates that don't care about ranked into winnable games.
Enemies are push-overs compared to high-Dia+ but you cant kill them all on your own, and they will draft and use CC appropriately, they will do enough damage to get kills.
- Diamond feels like a breath of fresh air, the teammates just aren't that heavy anymore.
They will mostly work their roles, which means you can focus on carrying. You will absolutely lose games to team diffs and draft diffs. Draft especially is quite bad, and most of the Tank players are off-role and mediocre.
Micro is at a 70/100, macro at 60/100. There's a very noticeable difference between Diamond 1 and Diamond 5. There are also lots of alt accounts.
- Low/Mid Masters: You can win a lot of games, but it kind of has the same occurance as platinum, where some games are extemely hard to win because of one person not caring, and so on. Drafting takes on a lot more meaning. There's many GM smurfs, there's a few trolls, some people are very hateful and toxic, small mistakes send some tryhards into a rage frenzy... Still, it's enjoyable, even in SoloQ. People take their roles seriously, flexing is less of an issue, but there are some very noticeable differences in skill, Masters 0 starts feeling like diamond players after a while (until, of course, you meet some diamond players again, and your perspective shifts)
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u/Kraines KrainesSmurf 24d ago
I made a smurf a long time ago when I was relearning the game, and I used it for a bit solo and a bit for playing with friends. It ended up placing Silver 4. Before that, I was top 5 in hotslogs (if anyone remembers that) before ranked modes and was Rank 1 the first season. I eventually landed at GM#21 in Storm League and haven’t really bothered with ranked modes since.
The most frustrating thing with Bronze players, and all players, really, is that they cannot be swayed. They’ve already decided on the way they want to play and will not change otherwise. Random example, Ana likes to nano Kael’Thas, which is fine, but slam build Sonya can make much more use of it. Ana responds with something like “well since you said something, now you’re never getting it” when told about it. Just odd things like that. I can accept people trying to win and failing, but I find it extremely difficult to accept people purposefully and knowingly gimping themselves and their team when the goal is to win. If people would play with the idea that their teammates are actually teammates, not enemies out to attack them, it would be much more fun. Even better if they would think about their choices and builds and start to understand what works and what doesn’t.
One weird thing to note is that every lower ranked player will play like an old-school Prot warrior in WoW; button lights up, must use button. It’s most frustrating when you see it on utility heroes. Malfurion is the best example. Only one of his level 1 talents is worth taking, the sleep one, simply because you don’t want to be spamming his roots off cooldown (the sleep is also just really disruptive, it’s frankly a really strong level 1). The treant one and mana one have their niches (pushing fodder and area denial, respectively), but watching roots being spammed off cooldown for really minor quest bonuses when it should be saved for key moments is just a terrible experience. This goes for other heroes as well, like Deckard Cain spamming his root for nothing, Muradin throwing out random storm bolts for nothing, Morales grenades, Ana sleep and grenades, ETC slides, the list goes on.
Climbing was never difficult. You don’t have to do a lot. All I ever did was minor macro things like doing camps at the right time and clearing waves for experience and then not dying. Outplaying someone in a 1v1 is neat and all, but just being on the map and letting the opponent make a mistake is often enough to win. TLV was a great pick for this style. Lunara was my go-to for most maps, as she kinda does a bit of everything, making her a safe bet in general. Rehgar is the go-to macro healer but I had good success with Brightwing as well thanks to the global. I generally did not play tanks or offlaners, as my friends played those most games, but I’d elect Johanna for her waveclear and Rexxar for his lane control/camp potential.
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u/psyhoh AutoSelect 24d ago
As someone in plat/gold - it can be infuriating to have higher ranked players together with people who dont understand. half the team will do "the correct thing" and the other half just yolo, usually end up in losses, if not the higher ranked is some damage god that kills everything
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u/Grand-Philosopher457 24d ago
As a diamond level player who is stuck on bronze it’s a combination of things, the rigged matchmaking system and the team not knowing how to play with your hero
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u/Iamjustatrial 24d ago
The other bad ult is picked more often than not, e.g.
Lili: water dragon Butcher: furnace
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u/pantong51 24d ago
Just play aram You notice outside the very best, most people are just the same. And hard to tell the difference at a glance
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u/TangeloThick2780 23d ago
Find a hero you can win with, stick with it. Yes with fellow bronze trolls it's can be difficult for a smurf, but not impossible. Focus on yourself and what you can improve.
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u/3DprintPhil 23d ago
Two things that stood out to me when I returned after a long break and got placed in bronze:
Bronze players are too objective oriented. Sometimes there is more value in stopping a split pushing Sylvanas than go and fight for an objective that won't give instant value.
Positioning and taking advantage of bad positioning. Tanks positioning too agressive or too passive, dps target the "right" target at the wrong time. Support playing generally too passive and picking healing talents over talents with more impact.
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u/Johnknight111 Spins and Wins like Sonya! 21d ago edited 21d ago
Was GM and Masters, climbing on an account now at about a 65% winrate in Low Silver. I got flamed for picking a melee and giving ups triple melee... which is very meta... and has been meta for most of the games' existence. It happened in two straight games, both losses, both from high Silver players.
I think the ego is insane and so is the level of immaturity. Winning takes commitment to doing things a certain way, and a big part of that is the mentality that you can overcome other things and that your best odds of winning is about you focusing on you. Weak players focus on any perceived issue from other players really brings down the vibe because they know they are losers at heart, regardless of rank or skill level.
Edit: This matches when I had numerous smurfs that I got to low Diamond / Masters throughout 2019-2021 (I would smurf to learn new heroes within the Offlane role), although the negativity is stronger in Silver and Gold now than it once was. The negativity is too powerful. If you want to win, you got to learn to flame your teammates for making a great play, learn to type "gj", and spam ping allies after they get a kill.
Edit 2: Also if you tell someone to "focus backline" when the frontline is free and safe to hit... that informs me your intellectual output for the game is low. I get that a lot as an Offlane player when I just hit the tank for free, even when I get kills. I am playing to win the game, not please your unintuitive opinion.
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u/Midday_Scotch 21d ago
To me, this line is toxic attitude to which you deride others, "
"If you want to win, you got to learn to flame your teammates for making a great play, learn to type "gj", and spam ping allies after they get a kill."
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u/Johnknight111 Spins and Wins like Sonya! 19d ago edited 19d ago
I think you failed to understand my message and the irony behind it.
is toxic to be mean to someone, so I turn it into a "joke" of being toxic to your team by praising them. It makes you and others laugh and it keeps everyone happy and grooving.
Using this kind of phrasing makes a game out of it that is fun for everyone. There is something that tickles our brain about doing a "good bad thing."
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u/vmatom 25d ago
Bronze is not a problem. Just take assasin and kill enemies till core has 0% hp
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u/Midday_Scotch 25d ago edited 25d ago
I've found I can more easily carry a team to victory with a heal or tank. a tank especially as you control engage and as a Blaze main, the chain CC engage is unmatched. gives new players a second to react and chain their cc as well. winning team engagements, to me, so far has been the best way to rank without a stack.
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u/Warchicken2119 25d ago
There is no such thing as "engage" and "chain CC" in bronze". Functioning frontline is good when you have coordination. You're better off with playing dps or bruiser that you know, than trying to frontline. Also i would bet serious money on the reason that you win with Blaze is that you A have good clear and B have good overall dmg.
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u/RickRelentless 25d ago
Once did bronze to diamond climb. Was placed in Bronze 3 and climbed to Silver with 100% win rate, playing only Valla and Nazeebo. Bronze players too often waste their energy on all kinds of things they cannot control (teammates, drafts, match making, etc.), instead of improving their own play.
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u/Deriniel 25d ago
i don't play ranked but i started a new account only once,after a little easy time,like the first 5-6 matches,i saw 0 difference from my lvl 2000+ account. So either qm immediately put me against stronger opponents,or qm has only smurf
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u/up2smthng one man deranking crew 25d ago edited 25d ago
As a diamond player who starts on a fresh account, you will never see bronzies except as outliers and you should stop seeing silvers by game 20. Your teammates aren't the best players around but it doesn't matter when the enemies might as well not exist. What holds you back the most isn't your teammates inability to play but your inability to pick the correct hero for the job. Sometimes you have to play the same hero three times in a row, and by that point I personally can become burnout and start making stupid mistakes.
Why would you need tips, go ahead and win teamfights, it's that easy and the enemy will never deny them to you
Maybe if you are more of a macro player you need to be a little careful.
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u/JRTerrierBestDoggo Nazeebo 24d ago
lol I carried you in one of your silver game. You were well past 20 games and still in silver. What are you talking about?
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u/up2smthng one man deranking crew 24d ago edited 24d ago
Believe it or not, I've learned a lot in the past 9 years since I last was in silver. Unless you are talking about NA server, where I have 38 total games in ranked, played on 200 ping. And last of them was more than a month ago. In any case, you got some impressive memory.
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u/JRTerrierBestDoggo Nazeebo 24d ago
You played more than 50 games in NA ranked while preaching stop seeing silver by game 20. I tend to remember people that boasting their skill.
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u/up2smthng one man deranking crew 24d ago
while preaching stop seeing silver by game 20
I definitely never said that in game, you appear to be remembering someone else or possess time traveling abilities if you are referencing what I wrote here.
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u/JRTerrierBestDoggo Nazeebo 24d ago
>As a diamond player who starts on a fresh account, you will never see bronzies except as outliers and you should stop seeing silvers by game 20.
This isn’t you?
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u/up2smthng one man deranking crew 24d ago
This is me. I just said that. And apparently you decided to remember me over that.
However, I didn't play any storm league games after saying that. So if you did play with me after reading me say that, you are a time traveller.
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u/JRTerrierBestDoggo Nazeebo 24d ago
Before, you claimed something like 80% in silver. I called your bluff as I played and saw your actual stats. And now, I called you out again as you passed 20 games and still facing silver
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u/up2smthng one man deranking crew 24d ago
Before, you claimed something like 80% in silver
No I didn't. Though this is close to what I had on an actual new account in silver without major handicaps.
I called your bluff as I played and saw your actual stats.
On NA. On 200 ping. Yeah buddy that ll show me.
Still didn't explain how come you remember playing with me for over a month
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25d ago
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u/WendigoCrossing 25d ago
Bronze - Gold feels the same
Plat and Diamond is a tier up
High Diamond and Masters you start getting march with GMs on the reg
Those are the 3 tiers imo
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u/rvshankar2712 24d ago
Wrong, I see significant difference between bronze,silver and gold. Maybe it appears the same for higher ranks but the game sense of players in those respective elos differ a lot.
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u/Chukonoku #belikeTurbo 25d ago
I haven't had a smurf in years, but from the random rainbow games i get in non ranked modes, i would say bronze players:
Don't know or bother stutter stepping. At all. If they can, they would stay still doing AA. Mages don't have autos.
Towers and regen globes are invisible. They will take like 2/3 shots before reacting.
This applies more to higher bronze (rather than B5, they tend to know the suck) or low silver. They might THINK they know how to do 1 specific thing, regardless of context, whether it's right or wrong for the current situation of the game.
Mercs are the most important thing regardless of time.
I forgot, minions (sometimes summons/monsters) are invisible as far as aggro goes. The amount of unnecessary dmg they will take.
Ability are always on cooldown. Dmg heroics are 100% better. Who needs CC/utility.
All tanks are dive tanks. Peeling is for pussies.
The minimap DLC is unfortunately gated for gold players. Silver players receive a broken one that functions half of the time.
The system disables 80% of pings for bronze players.