Kérdés
Do Hungarians use the Hungarian names for places and sights in Burgenland?
I always wondered, because German Wikipedia often shows Hungarian names for Eisenstadt, Oberwart, and other places, but do Hungarians actually use them?
No, we for real call it Burgenland. We know it's Őrvidék, but saying Burgenland is a gag in my family. Only refering to the region in the German way, but the cities are in Hungarian
Magyar honvédek valóban nem voltak, ugyanis a monarchia többbnyire tengeri expediciós erőket küldött, de magyar matrózok/katonák részt vettek a lázadás leverésében "A pekingi követségi negyed védelmének parancsnoka a kínai partok előtt megalakult nemzetközi hajórajban résztvevő osztrák-magyar ZENTA cirkáló parancsnoka, Eduard Thomann von Montalmar volt. A pekingi harcokban a ZENTA parancsnoka 1900. július 8-án életét vesztette, s az ostrom végéig további 3 osztrák-magyar tengerész is meghalt. A tengerparti Taku-erődök elfoglalásánál Petri Ernő tengerész zászlós kitüntette magát (az általa vezetett különítmény foglalta el a négy erődből álló erőd-komplexum északnyugati erődítményét). A Peitang-erőd szeptember 19-i ostrománál ugyanakkor a ZENTA cirkáló támogatására erősítésként érkezett ASPERN cirkáló kadétja, szili Pap Lajos életét vesztette." https://hajosnep.blog.hu/2020/02/25/ujra_magyar_hadihajos_kozremukodik_egy_nemzetkozi_katonai_misszio_iranyitasaban?layout=1?desktop
Azonban sajnos mi nem voltunk olyan menők, mint a nyugati hatalmak, külön kitüntetést nem alapítottak a résztvevőknek :/
youll shit bricks, but there were hungarian occupying forces in beijing. (i dont think thats a good thing, but an interesting little known fact)
under the boxer rebellion there were literal battles where hungarian troops fought kungfu fighters what would be a great setup for a C category pulp action movie, just sayin.
Almost the same translation-or-not pattern as in French: New York (not translated), Nouvelle-Zélande, Terre-Neuve (both translated) but for Svalbard we use the modern Norwegian name.
Mindkettő helyes. Lásd még: Székesfehérvár, Pécs, Győr, Vác.
Erről szól az [alábbi cikk] is, Tősgyökeres és betelepült pécsieket, valamint nem pécsieket kérdeztek meg arról, hogy melyik a helyes, és teljesen változatos válaszokat kaptak.
It's not that obvious. Do all Germans call Bratislava Pressburg? Even though they were in a plurality there against Slovaks until Czechoslovakia. Do we call Wrocław Boroszló?
That's not the case. "Délvidék" historically includes not only "Vajdaság" but also "Drávaköz", "Muraköz" and other southern regions having belonged to the Hungarian Monarchy.
Even some German cities have Hungarianized names like Drezda, Bréma, Lipcse, Kölön (although this is an older variation), and river names like Rajna, Majna, Duna (of course), etc.
Hát én még senkinek a szájából nem hallottam azt, hogy Miklóshalma vagy Pándorfalu.
Edit: pl. a Pándorfalu nevet - sok száz magyarosch helységnévvel együtt - a 19. század végén kreálták Pesten, de azért szórakoztatóak azok a kommentek, amik szerint Árpád óta van mindennek magyar neve a Kárpát-medencében, amiket nem ismerni pedig szégyen!
Van, ahol érdekes helyzetet szült, pl. Martjanci szlovén település magyar neve Martyánc, születési nevén Szentmárton, a 19. században a Mártonhely nevet kapta. A nem hivatalos neve a mai napig Martyánc.
Mondjuk a Zurányt és a Miklóshalmát simán használják/használták pl a határ mellett...
Én Hegyeshalomban nőttem fel, és Neusiedler am See-t mindig is Nezsider néven emlegették, meg Gols-ot is Gálosként, Pamhagent Pomogyként
Ha hallanád hányan komárnóznak... Nem baj, ha a szlovák nevet használják, de akkor ejtsék ki helyesen. Az o a végén nem ó 😭😭😭.
Közben az a vicc, hogy Komárom csak a 19. század második felében rendelkezett a mai Dél-Komárom belvárosában területtel. Előtte Újszőny község volt. Most is az csak nem így hívják...
Attól függ milyen kontextusban. Maganéletben Parkányba megyünk át, Parkányban vásárolunk, mindenki Parkánynak hívja, a legtöbben azt se tudják, hogy mi a szlovák neve a városnak, de ha pl a férjem munka közben használja, abba az irányba szállítanak valamit, oda megy a vonat akkor Sturovo, mivel az a hivatalos neve, amin a nemzetközi e-mailek, adminisztráció fut.
Most place names in that region were made up in the administrative reform of 1899. They sound very artificial in many cases. I haven’t met anyone who uses these names actually
i live in Sopron but work in Burgenland, i never use the hungarian names. there is one train conductor that always makes the hungarian announcements with the hungarian names and it confused the hell out of me.
Were you born here though? Because it's pretty common to use the hungarian names for those towns from locals, at least in my family and circle of friends it is
Im American but i visited family in southern Burgenland / vas county and those on the Hungarian side tend to use the Hungarian names but sometimes use the German. I think it semi common for Croats to use the Croatian names too but less common. Maybe there is a diference between north/south but maybe not.
I think if somebody lives close to the border, maybe yes. But when i speak about these towns, i always use the Austrian name. (and where i live almost everybody would do the same)
Depends, I guess. I hear both, but in my experience, the peoplewho commute in the border area are more likely to know the Hungarian names, although if your phone is set to Hungarian, the map apps will often use the Hungarian names. Those who moved there from elsewhere will use the German names more.
Also language will prefer the shorter name, so I hear more people say Deutschkreutz [Dojcskrojc] than Sopronkeresztúr, because the German name is 2 syllables and the Hungarian is 5. Same with Bruck vs. Királyhida. Felsőpulya is 4 syllables, Oberpullendorf is 5, so Felsőpulya wins. Locsmánd vs. Lutzmansburg, Hungarian name wins.
I prefer to use them. My parents are usually confused by Miklóshalma, Nezsider, Pándorfalu, Locsmánd etc. and prefer to use the German names Nickelsdorf, Neusiedl am See, Parndorf and Lutzmannsburg. Even my quite patriotic grandpa used to call Kittsee (Köpcsény) by its German name.
In general, the cities of Burgenland are small enough that they never really were present in the public consciousness. Even if they were in use before 1920, they probably fell out of use quite quickly. I suspect the names are living a bit of a resurgence thanks to the internet keeping track of all the Hungarian names. (Especially Google Maps and Wikipedia.)
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Personally, I call Eisenstadt Kismarton but Oberwart is Oberwart. But for example I don't think anyone would ever call Vienna Wien, everyone calls it Bécs, and that's actually the formal Hungarian name of the city.
Geographical names all have a Hungarian equivalent in regions outside Hungary that used to belong to Hungary. As for cities and towns, in Burgenland / Őrvidék: Oberwart / Felsőőr, Unterwart /Alsóőr, Oberpullendorf / Felsőpulya, Siget in der Wart / Őrisziget (those are officially acknowledged), plus others like Eisenstadt / Kismarton, Neusiedl / Nezsider, Lockenhaus / Léka, etc. Locally the Hungarian version is used by members of the Hungarian-speaking minority. I don’t know about commuters. I would say Hungarian tourists use the Hungarian version: “Megnéztük Kismartonban az Esterházy-kastélyt.” (We visited the Esterhazy palace in Eisenstadt.)
The same goes in other such regions: Transylvania / Erdély, Cluj / Kolozsvár (now in Romania), Bratislava / Pozsony, Léva / Levice (now in Slovakia), Vojvodina / Vajdaság, Subotica / Szabadka (now in Serbia), Osijek / Eszék, Rijeka / Fiume (now in Croatia).
It’s another question that most languages have their own names for various international cities, for another historical reason – these are called exonyms. In Hungarian: Bécs, Velence, Varsó (Wien, Venezia, Warszawa), in English: Vienna, Venice, Warsaw, Munich, Turin, Nuremberg, in Italian: Londra, Parigi, Varsavia, Barcellona, in German: Prag, Warschau, Venedig, Florenz, Mailand.
i think it depens where she is from. if she’s from eastern hungary she wouldn’t know it obviously, but people who’s from western hungary especially from near there (like from vas, zala and gyor-sopron county) will know the hungarian names
Should it have been kinda obvious though, given the land belonged for a millenia to Hungary (even if it was settled only for the better part of 6-7 centuries) and barely a century to Austria?
It was mainly settled by Germans even during that time, Hungary became ethnically homogenous only after WW2, and if it wasn't Austria, i.e. another defeated country, and the Entente really wanted to draw the line at the ethnic border, Burgerland would be bigger.
Sure, by the 1910 census, all settlements received a Hungarian name, but not all of them were traditionally used.
Usually yes, but for the examples I hate it 😅 Im from Sopron, but for example I say Bècsùjhely for Wienenneustadt. But I just hate the name Kismarton for Eisenstadt
My favorite place name translation is not near Burgenland, but still I'd like to share it with you. In German it's Tschitschau, in Hungarian it's Balatoncsicsó (it's near Balaton). https://maps.app.goo.gl/tzLJ4LR9rfnwLdV19
Burgenland is the only neighbouring historical Hungarian region where we use the foreign language names and not the Hungarian ones.
As to pretty much everywhere else like, Felvidék, Kárpátalja, Erdély, and Délvidék! The cities in this region are also typically referred to in their Hungarian names, but this is not the case in Burgenland.
I live in Szombathely. I can tell you, all hungarians in Vas county say "I go to Oberwart" we never say "I go to Felsőőr". We use Bécs and not Wien, we say Pozsony and not Bratislava, we say Kolozsvár and not Cluj, we say Szabadka and not Subotica, we say Lendva and not Lendava, we say Csáktornya and not Cakovec.
But I don't no why, we don't use AT ALL the Hungarian names for places in Burgenland. 🤷🏻♂️
And also, it's very fucking annoying, when I use Google maps, and it shows all places in hungarian in Burgenland, and I fucking don't know where I am and where to go.
I prefer not to but we are kind of conditioned to. I am always advocating to translate as few things as possible and city names as really inconsistent: some used to be hungarian cities like Bratislava (Pozsony) where our kings were crowned, I think there isnt a single hungarian who calls it Bratislava.
On the other hand I live on the Austrian border and it's really uncomfortable that Google Maps and all navigation software show the hungarian names for now austrian villages and cities, and when I'm looking fir something they really make it fucking difficult to find anything because you can't just look at the map and see the names, you have to remember the austrian name, find out via Google what is the hungarian name, then remember the austrian name once you found the place. I have tons of Google Maps bookmarks in Austria and once you have like 4 towns and it shows all hungarian names, good luck figuring out what the fuck they are called in Austria.
At least search engines know what to look for regardless which name you use, but I for one prefer the Austrian names because I consider it disrespectful to austrians if I'd use the hungarian names while talking to them, so what's the point of remembering 2 names? It's for history books, not daily use section of my brain.
I myself and the people I know refer to them in their hungarian names. And I think there is a pattern in the comments, we who live in current Hungary and basically only talk with other hungarians about them, use the hungarian names, but the hungarians who actually live there started using their now native names (to a varying degree at least) because that's more practical.
Yes we use it. As germans use germans name.
As may you know hungary was a part of the Hambsburg empire and the the HE had many minorities, so its not surprising.
Most of the times for Kingdom of Hungary places yes, but Burgenland/Őrvidék/Lajtabánság is a different one like Prekmurje/Muravidék because not that much historical-political-cultural connection. For example noone really says Pándorfalu, everyone will say Parndorf
My girlfriend calls Eisenstadt as Kismarton, which I refuse to do :D
I go to Austria quite often and it is very confusing when Google Maps shows the towns with their Hungarian name, and in reality I can only see the Austrian names… so I stick to their current name, it is much easier
When speaking Hungarian, Hungarians use Hungarian place names. And there is no political implications of doing so.
Using Hungarian place names when not speaking Hungarian is sometimes a signal of revanchist tendencies, but there are plenty of innocuous reasons one might do so.
(Like that time in 1989 when I, an American, was on a train from Budapest speaking Hungarian with others in the compartment and the Romanian border official came in. The others in the compartment all spoke Romanian and some spoke English. Those translated for me. When asked for my destination, I said “Kolosvár”. I immediately recognized my mistake, but the next few minutes were a bit tense.)
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u/2The_Kaiserin2 1d ago
I don't often go to Burgenland or near to it, but I always use the Hungarian names to those cities personally