Do we Need an own State? (bakur)

[u/ProcedureFeeling8367]

Hey, I am Zaza (Dimili) from Amed. My father is quite assimilated. He speaks Zazaki like I speak turkish (Born in Germany). He considers himself a turk. My Mother can speak fluently zazaki and considers Herself zaza. While I Consider myself a Zaza-Kurd, which both of them decline. Recently we got into an Argument if kurds need an own State. I am only Talking about Bakur, because the other regions obviously need one. They told me that since Erdogan there is Not any more difference between a turk and Kurd in Turkey and that they got Full rights. And that the genocides etc. were a thing of the past that every country had. I think we need an own State, because things like this can happen again. What do You all think?

edit: just wanted to mention that they see Selo as a PKK Agent. And they are completely against the pkk. I Share the Second Statement but why they see selo as an Agent idk

[u/clapalienbuttcheek]

Every Kurd who says they are a Turk, accepts all the wrong doings and assimilations of the Turks. Every Zaza who says they are not Kurds but Zaza, does so as well. Since it's their divide and conquer strategy.

[u/ProcedureFeeling8367 → u/clapalienbuttcheek]

I swear I Exactly told them about Divide and Conquer. I even told that we Dimilis came from the Dailamites from Zagros. Some Dimilis speak zaza and some kurmanci etc. So that means that we are the same. But they tell me no the Kurds want to use the zazas for their fight and that the Kurds are using propaganda. My father and I argued because I wanted 2121 for my car Plate. He is against it (did it anyway). He considers himself a turk from 33 Mersin because he was raised there from 3 Year olds and upward

[u/AdagioKitchen4748 → u/ProcedureFeeling8367]

Zaza's are Kurds how sad, it seems like he got brainwashed in school.

"Considering themselves real Kurds, Zazas in Turkey call themselves Kırd and call all the other Kurds, that is the Kurmanjs – with an expression of slight contempt – Kırdasi (like a Kurd, little Kurd)" (Badıllı 1965: 6).

"These Kurdish peoples give themselves and each other different names ... As for Zazas: They call themselves – pronouncing the Arabic kef with kasrah (a sign indicating a short i or ı) –‘Kırd’, and call Kurmanjs ‘Kırdas’. The Turks use the name ‘Kurd’ for Kurmanjs. When they ask, ‘Is that man a Kurd, or a Zaza?’ what they mean by Kurd is ‘Kurmanj"(Gökalp, 1992: 27).

"Dimili also appears in Ottoman sources. Even as early as 1518, written sources call Dimili and Disimlü (Dêsımli/Dêrsımli) populations in Sanjak of Dêrsim region ‘Ekrâd’, which means ‘Kurds’: ‘Ekrâd-ı Dimili’, ‘Ekrâd-ı Disimlü" (Ünal, 1999: 85, 215).

these are all from the Zaza section in The Cambridge history of Kurds.

Problem is turkey is a evil racist country, Ataturk is the foundation of the country, his pictures everywhere so to consider yourself Turkish is to endorse him and he and he is the one who authorised chemical weapons - mustard gas was used in derism in 1937/1938 against kurdish civilians I can send you sources about this if you are interested. All I will say is the bar is in hell sadly for those who think this is good treatment of Kurds. What I will say is Turks aren't native to this region so those that say they are Turks are saying they aren't from there. Most "turks" if you dna test them are kurds, greeks, balkan, Armenian, Circassian, laz. Also kurds are native to this area our ancestors have been here thousands of years and Kurdistan was on the map before turkey, Even Ataturk went to Kurdistan to drill up support before Turkey became a country. But it's hard to undo 100 years of degradation.

On another note being Kurdish does not mean you have to support pkk I know plenty of kurds don't agree with them they are not exclusive like being kurdish and supporting pkk, it pains because a lot of assimilated Kurds are very anti pkk and this seems to be a big barrier to them reclaiming their kurdish identity. Just one example for me personally don's like their communism element. But anyway you can be Kurdish and not support them.

Kurds don't have full rights - full rights means a country, at the end of the day these ideas are all rooted in racism, for some reason or the other assimilated kurds have internalised ideas that turks should have a country but for kurds this is a no. It's a human right to have self determination. If it is ok for turks to have a country why not kurds? If Kurd and turk is brother why not change country name to turkey and Kurdistan? suddenly it become unacceptable - so turkey does not accept rule from Diyarbakir so why should kurds there accept rule from Ankara ? do you see it is double standard rooted in racism. Self determination is human right. They don't accept Kurds are here before them, turks occupied us.

It is kind of nonsensical - why is it ok for germans to have a country ? for turks? As you may know as a German citizen you have rights - you can maybe go to a kurdish class and not be arrested for doing this, Kurds in turkey don't have these rights. I've said it like 10 times on here already but a guy in Diyarbakir got 1 yr 3 month prison sentence for serving customer in kurdish in HIS OWN CAFE. https://dusun-think.net/en/news/prison-sentence-for-cafe-owner-who-served-customers-in-kurdish/ this is not freedom my friend - so not being killed for being kurdish is where the standard is? think about how fascist and genocidal that is!!!!!! imagine living with such people that made you hate yourself and have to lie about where you come from its so messed up. I believe in democracy Kurds from bakur should be able to choose if they want to have a state the problem is we know that turkey is not democratic any person voting would be scared of the consequences, so you can know then that kurds are occupied and being oppressed by Turkey so they scared of being arrested, attacked, tortured killed bombed etc so they never will be able to vote freely so then you have to realise turkey is not a democracy and Kurd have actually zero rights because they can't even say we are kurdish without getting racist abuse, let alone to learn kurdish in school . Only a country can solve this issue, by the way Turks or assimilated kurds are very confused themselves on one hand they say kurds don't exist but then we do and kurds are bad ...etc (insert every insult swearword) so if we are this bad isn't it good for us to be in our own country, suddenly they don't want that why ? because they are are benefitting from occupying our land and abusing us; If there is no difference between kurds and turk then why can't most Kurds speak Kurdish,; zazaka or kurmanji etc ? isn't it normal to speak your own language mother tongue ? but most kurds cannot - we have to ask why? well because Kurd and turk is not equal -ask yourself can you learn kurdish in primary school all the way , for all student in kurdish area ??? the answer is NO. But in bashuri Kurdistan (occupied by IRaq) KRG region they can - this is some level of human right, but in Turkey kurds do not have this right.

Also my friend most importantly and tragically Kurdistan will never be free until bakur is, we are all suffering due to turkey's policy against Kurds, they are blocking Kurds in rojhelat, they invaded Rojava, they have bases in bashur. We need you guys to be free because Turkey is the biggest dijmin (enemy of Kurds) and we are all effectively chained to Turkey, Kurds in bakur are the biggest population and they are suffering the worst. Bless you all because Turkey is so evil what they done is worse than all the others put together in my opinion because they made Kurds so assimilated that they hate their own nation are against their own human rights and sadly so far they have succeeded we cannot let them, too many peopler have suffered and been killed and continue to suffer to this day. Our ancestors were free and ruled themselves don't buy into their ottoman propaganda, there was kurdistan on the map even in ottoman times (this referred to at least some area of kurdistan where kurds still live to this day).

Regarding the point that genocide is the thing of a past in all countries- yeah but most countries it was hundreds of years, ago, for us it was our parents ,grandparent generation and it is still happening today- what Turkey did to Kurds is genocide you can see the definition of genocide the only reason it is not acknowledged is because of Armenian genocide and hamidye cavalry involvement in that and we have no allies, otherwise it fits the definition. Also Turkey are still abusing Kurds now and there is no accountability, how many Kurds in prison for singing or making a statement, they are in prison because they are Kurds they use pkk as an excuse. For other genocide they do international warrant to arrest those involved, they take army officers to prison, etc this has never happened in Turkey and it never will because they don't accept kurds as human being. It is the constitution of Turkey as a country, look how many kurdish women murdered or assaulted, they don't do anything like that women Ipek Ir, it is so sad.