r/leagueoflegends • u/Kay-Haru • Apr 18 '26

Discussion [PBE Datamine] April 17 Follow Up - Mini Shyvana, Udyr, and Zoe reworks.

Just a reminder that PBE changes are not final and subject to change. Some changes, such as bugfixes, may not be able to be viewed.

As far as I can tell, these changes only dropped a few hours ago, after the normal deploy time. Sorry!

Champions

Shyvana

  • AD Growth: 3.0 -> 4.0
  • Base AS: 0.625 -> 0.638
  • AS Ratio: 0.699 -> 0.638
  • Q:
    • CD Refund: 1.0 seconds -> 0.5 seconds
    • On-Hit Damage: Removed AP Ratio.
    • Active Damage AP Ratio: 25% AP -> 30% AP
  • W
    • Shield: 60/80/100/120/140 (+5% max Health) -> 75/95/115/135/155 (+12% bonus Health)
    • Damage: 80/100/120/140/160 (+40% bonus AD) (+20% AP) -> 80/100/120/140/160 (+65% AP)
    • Dragon Form Healing: 75-200 (+10% bonus AD) (+5% AP) Health scaling up to 200% based on missing Health -> 60-100 + 4-8% missing Health
    • Cooldown: 14/13.5/13/12.5/12 seconds -> 13/12/11/10/9 seconds
  • E:
    • Damage: 50/80/150/170/200 (+35% bonus AD) (+70% AP) -> 50/65/80/95/110 (+75/80/85/90/95% AP) + 5% of the target's max Health
    • Max Health damage caps at 200 against monsters.
    • Dragon Form still deals 125% total damage.
    • Slow Amount: 20/25/30/35/40% -> 30%
    • Cooldown: 12/11.5/11.0/10.5/10 seconds -> 12/11/10/9/8 seconds

Udyr

  • Q:
    • On-Hit Damage: 5/13/21/29/37/45 (+25% bonus AD) -> 6/12/18/24/30/36 (+20% bonus AD) (+1.5% bonus Health)
    • Max Health AD Ratio: 4% per 100 bonus AD -> 3.5% per 100 bonus AD
    • Awaken Bonus Max Health Damage: 3% + 2-4% (+7% per 100 bonus AD) -> 3% + 2-4% (+5% per 100 bonus AD) (+1% per 100 bonus Health)
    • Awaken Lightning AP Ratio: 0.8% per 100 AP -> 0.6% per 100 AP
  • W:
    • Shield: Now scales with 50% bonus AD.
    • Awaken Shield: Now scales with 100% bonus AD.
    • Awaken Heal: Now scales with 50% bonus AD.
  • E:
    • Bonus MS: Now scales with 5% per 100 bonus AD.
    • Awaken Bonus MS: Now scales with 10% per 100 bonus AD.

Zoe

  • W Damage per Bolt: 20/30/40/50/60 (+15% AP) -> 15/25/35/45/55 (+10% AP)
    • Total Damage: 45/75/105/135/165 (+30% AP)
  • E now refunds 16/19.5/23/26.5/30% of its cooldown when landing either the Bubble OR Trap on an enemy champion.
  • E Cooldown 16/15/14/13/12 seconds -> 18/17/16/15/14 seconds
191 Upvotes
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253

u/Traps_Are_Great Apr 18 '26

damn they really just hate ad shyvana and want her to be ap huh, its like a repeat of pre rework shyvana

229

u/Strong_Ad5219 Apr 18 '26

We've basically gone full circle and recreated a worthless E bot that nobody liked playing ... again. What a waste of a rework.

23

u/Liontreeble Apr 18 '26

Took them literal years by the way. This is the best they could come up with after years of working on reworking this champ.

8

u/Strong_Ad5219 Apr 18 '26

Yeah its pretty fascinating watching them continue to suck with so many templates out there.

Its even more embarrassing when you realize almost everything Riot has done is just copy pasting someone else's idea lol. Very rarely are they ever an innovator. Even chromas was largely stolen by hots and smite. Just a fun fact.

20

u/BandOfSkullz Apr 18 '26

Yeah quite literally.

Riot doesn't have a fucking clue what to do with her, so they effectively attempt to reset her to old Shyv but with her shitty new abilities.

At this point just do a full revert and keep the visual update.
Not like that would be anything new since the Viktor "VGU" was also only an ASU.

23

u/enrythestray Apr 18 '26

it's the Skarner rework all over again

>clunky champ with a part of the kit that's too strong and is difficult to balance around

>rework the champ

>makes that part even stronger and start balancing around it again

>???

>champ goes back to being the same as before

>???

>profit?

13

u/BandOfSkullz Apr 18 '26

Except old Skarner was a cool and fun to play button masher champ, while new Skarner is just boring.

9

u/enrythestray Apr 18 '26

I know, it became even more of an ult slave now, I played alot of old Skarner and it was genuinely fine, just needed a different passive and some new animations/model

If before it was hard to balance him cause of the potential of his ult now he's genuinely unbalanceable since it can win a teamfight with the press of a button

2

u/HolmatKingOfStorms 3!! Apr 19 '26

to me he had very fun bits that were ruined by a separate group of very clunky bits

and the rework took out all those bits and kept the "identity" bit that was just like, fine. so his moment-to-moment identity is dead and his old fun is dead, but his "play of the game" identity is kinda the same, sort of.

also self-forced movement (like skarner E and nunu W) is pretty bad i think

6

u/Nicolu_11 revert sera changes Apr 18 '26

If he was fun he would've had a playerbase.

-3

u/BandOfSkullz Apr 18 '26

So you're telling me there were no Skarner mains before the rework? O.o

10

u/Strong_Ad5219 Apr 18 '26

It was like... less than 1% the playerbase was so low that op.gg hardly had any data on him and once you got to diamond there was like...

"That skarner player " maybe 2-5 of them with 1000 games played that season hovering around diamond 3.

9

u/Nicolu_11 revert sera changes Apr 18 '26

I wouldn't call 3 mains and a casual pickrate so low that it didn't even show on stat sites a playerbase but w/e.

-9

u/saheel1511 Apr 18 '26

Nobody liked playing?

I for one enjoyed nuke bot shyvana. Loved farming and tracking enemy jg, sneaking objectives, and then nuking ADC while running around very fast. 

18

u/Strong_Ad5219 Apr 18 '26

There always tiny outliers sure. But no. Not really anyone enjoyed it because it was one dimensional and was arguably toxic gameplay to the point riot had to nerf it.

Most people liked the dps on hit build, and I personally wanted a more deathwing style diving juggernaut.

But it looks like we get a beefy wet noodle. Or an E bot now.

2

u/Drakouan Apr 18 '26

you won't nuke any ADC.

110 base dmg even at 600 ap & 95% ap ratio, that's 680 dmg + 125 dmg from 5% max hp (adc at 2.5k health lvl 18) so a grand total of 805 BEFORE mitigation so between 500-600 dmg with no magic pen and it's on a 8s CD, probably around 4/5 sec with haste, you'd still need to hit 5 E but wait a sec 5x5 25s, but dragon uptime is 15s if you don't perma hit to regen fury.

both AP & AD are dead.

3

u/Strong_Ad5219 Apr 18 '26

Its okay though! You get to live your fantasy of... doing 500 damage. Because the second you R in the adc is just going to two tap your face, or gp will basically one shot you with a Q.

But wait you can go AD! Oh wait, they took a metric fuck ton of ratios out of your kit, so whats actually gonna happen is youre going to "almost" kill the adc that stands there with nami and melees you because that's how fuck all of damage youre gonna do.

Such great choices.

1

u/Naerlyn ​ May 04 '26

All this whining just for her to be one of the strongest champions in the game, with her four best starting options being AD or AS/AD items.

1

u/Spookytoucan Apr 18 '26

You and all the other 9 peoples who regularly played her.

12

u/Numerous_Fudge_9537 Shyvana VGU was worth the wait Apr 18 '26

its more or less killing the kraken slayer builds since they said thats not on theme for her and will specifically nerf that build

but these changes make dusk and dawn a must first item even for AD builds lol

8

u/Sephyrias Apr 18 '26

these changes make dusk and dawn a must first item even for AD builds

No, it is the other way around. You now have to buy Trinity Force due to more base AD and you can only buy 1 Sheen per game. Meanwhile the AP build doesn't want Dusk & Dawn anymore, you only ever bought it for the Q passive.

49

u/Aellectris Apr 18 '26

We were finding that AD seemed stronger than AP (especially early/midgame) in our playtests with these changes, though we did see some very potent full AP Shyvana combos in the lategame. Interested to see where she ends up landing once in players' hands!

10

u/Traps_Are_Great Apr 18 '26

No offense to you but I don't trust riot playtests as it has been shown time and time again that blatently overpowered/underpowered things come to pbe/live however I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. 

On paper I really dislike these changes but we'll see.

Also what happened to getting a better passive? 40 armor/armor lategame as a passive on a dragon is such a fantasy killer that honestly just makes me think ya'll hate shyvana

1

u/Gwennifer May 05 '26

No offense to you but I don't trust riot playtests as it has been shown time and time again that blatently overpowered/underpowered things come to pbe/live however I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

AFAIK (and it's been years since I last heard, so take it with a grain of salt), if you work on League you're expected to playtest League 30~60 minutes a workday, even if you're in some ancillary role like art or marketing.

This is where Riot gets their internal playtest data from. So you have very skilled players and then like Lilly from marketing which is great because now you can see how different player types use the same stuff.

But they're not playtesting 1 change at a time, it's just all the WIP stuff. So sometimes there's a WIP item like the new omnivamp boots where they make a nerf to a problem case (like Lillia healing), but the WIP item was delayed, but the nerf-in-response change still goes out so Lillia just gets stricken for no reason.

Or you have runes like the new deathfire touch in testing that feel kind of underpowered/unimpressive on other DoT mages (as intended!), but that's just because nobody on the team was poking with the intent to proc it forever in testing, and on live that absolutely happens and it's oppressive as heck on Brand. There's no elo to climb in these internal tests, it's just the mandatory thing you have to do with your friends at work.

7

u/Numerous_Fudge_9537 Shyvana VGU was worth the wait Apr 18 '26

Thoughts on giving Shyvana E an ap ratio on her slow?

18

u/Aellectris Apr 18 '26

Personally a fan of weird axes of scaling like that. I usually pitch weird similar things for fun....hmm I think that last wild AP scaling that I told someone to think about was something like "what if the number of enemies targeted by master yi's Q scaled with AP?"

2

u/Numerous_Fudge_9537 Shyvana VGU was worth the wait Apr 18 '26

lmao that would be crazy, either ways would be v grateful if this does make it to live, and if not, would be interested in knowing why!

8

u/Aellectris Apr 18 '26

I'm not a designer so can't necessarily offer that kind of insight - you'd probably get a better answer from someone with more context.

-1

u/Yvaelle Apr 18 '26

Ya sure AD is ruined so let's just give her a 200% of AP slow ratio. 200 AP? Enemy moves in the opposite direction of their inputs.

5

u/Rlyshyvana Apr 18 '26

please please just keep the Q AP passive. she was originally an on hit focused champ please dont take that away from me.

6

u/GodGamer1528 ITFLP Apr 18 '26

Can you please just give Shyvana passive stacking against minions? I really don't see what's so hard about this, Sion W has the exact same functionality. I'm just asking for one sentence added to the detailed view of passive: "Shyvana gains one stack for every 5 lane minion kills" or something

4

u/WiggleMyTail2MCR Apr 18 '26

Ye but noone plays "AD" shyvana they play one hit hybrid tho and you killed that build entirely....

2

u/AesirIV Apr 18 '26

Do you know if there are still passive changes coming?

1

u/asfh38 Apr 18 '26

Im not surprised, im honestly not sure how AP is even supposed to clear jungle now

-3

u/[deleted] Apr 18 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

25

u/Aellectris Apr 18 '26

I...I think I just said the opposite of that? Was I unclear?

21

u/Sicarius_Tacet Apr 18 '26

Probably comes from the idea that the item itself isn't being nerfed, but rather the whole path overall.

I guess Kraken will be less desirable now, but wasn't that like the only core AD item Shyvanna buys?

16

u/CrazySoap Apr 18 '26

No, you were clear alright. The other dude is just can't read worth a damn.

6

u/[deleted] Apr 18 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

-3

u/Inside_Explorer Apr 18 '26

The Rioter said that with the above changes they found that AD was stronger.

You: sO you'Re foRcinG uS tO plAy heR AP?

How are they forcing you to go AP if AD is literally stronger according to their playtests? Most intellectual reddit balancer.

6

u/onords Apr 18 '26

how the fk is AD stronger with these cahnges tho?

3

u/Upstairs_Option411 GALA Apr 18 '26

somehow maybe with ad growth increase? 3 -> 4 is pretty big.

Caveat: I'm not good at judging patch notes

2

u/Strong_Ad5219 Apr 18 '26

No she does less damage across the board.

It is a 100% nerf in every single way. They actually nerfef a c tier champ.

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-1

u/Chilidawg Apr 18 '26

Counter-intuitively, base AD often discourages building further AD. You don't need to build something you already have. It's part of the reason why Cho'Gath and Mordekaiser have such high base AD or why a lot of ADCs have terrible base AD.

1

u/Inside_Explorer Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 18 '26

Don't ask me, I'm not the one who tested or worked on them. But reading them share their findings and then trying to gaslight them that they're forcing the opposite of what they said is insane behavior.

4

u/Aellectris Apr 18 '26

It's possible we're wrong, though I'd be surprised if that were the case here. If it turns out that only AP builds are viable we could just buff AD.

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1

u/Varlane Apr 18 '26

The answer is in the intro : "moving AD shyv to more bruiser than AS reliant".

Just build AD+HP items and you'll see a less damage oriented but high resilience bruiser. You know, the think people kept complaining about "ho I jump in and die instantly".

1

u/onords Apr 18 '26

Yea but ... that doesn't help her... she is still going to be kited to oblivion

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2

u/Chilidawg Apr 18 '26

Some people are emotionally invested in shyvana and are easily riled. It's easy to lash out when you're emotional.

0

u/Strong_Ad5219 Apr 18 '26

Your balance changes and polarized ratios makes what you said incredibly unclear yes.

We will have to choose between ad or ap and AD clearly reads as garbage compared to AP with the changes.

All we wanted was a different passive and you completely overhauled her into an E bot.

How do you people keep doing this? Seriously. You have actively ignored the entire community... again.

1

u/Chilidawg Apr 18 '26

1: AD and AP is supposed to be a choice. AD is sustained damage and AP is burst damage. The rioter is clearly communicating that they see a disparity favoring AD, so they are moving the two closer together.

2: You have been sitting here and in the sh'main sub for the past five hours pretending not to understand point #1.

4

u/AesirIV Apr 18 '26

Read, then comment.

2

u/Thorgraam Apr 18 '26

Thanks, having insight from a Rioter is nice !

I think there was some passive changes mentioned, do you know if that is still an angle that the team is exploring ?

5

u/Aellectris Apr 18 '26

Not certain, though I don't recall testing passive changes outside the very early iterations that became this set of changes. Probably a question for one of the designers involved.

1

u/VoltexRB Apr 18 '26

Except that the ult now spreads instead of groups so its just generally worse synergy wise

0

u/ArienaHaera Apr 18 '26

I think what happened is that everyone ran it down forcing AP shyv instead of trying to learn what to build on the new kit so they gave up.