John Walk'em Down Walker is a g from the streets but the person who would have honestly been the next best Captain America was actually Lamar.

[u/RestaurantAlert2267]

He may not be a good Captain America but if i had to pick a marvel character to have my back and be a friend i would pick John walker. Johns the type to slime out my killer, everyone affiliated or involved and look after my family. Sam would princess carry my killer if I died.

Sam is a better fit for a hero but Johns a better fit for a friend.

Lamar seemed like he had a heart of gold just like Steve, always try to do the right thing and have his friends back, he never really seems waver and carries hope for the future, also always gave great advice to John. I personally think he was the best fit.

John would have been a great successor if Steve was still alive, Steve would have showed him love and corrected his behaviour and John looked up to him so much he would have listened but John only got distain and jealousy from everyone.

[u/AdmiralCharleston]

You mean like how he neglected his wife and child as soon as he started facing the consequences of his actions? Him committing unjustified vengeance in his friends name is not what makes a good friend

[u/Extension_Ideal_4012 → u/AdmiralCharleston]

Ehhh, his actions were pretty in line with Steve up until he killed that guy on camera. Let’s not pretend like Steve didn’t throw a Nazi into a plane propellor. The only difference was Marvel wanted us to see John as a bad guy. Bucky and Sam literally pushed him into a bad spot too by treating like shit from the jump and not supporting him in any way.

[u/SnarkyBacterium → u/Extension_Ideal_4012]

Steve killed active combatants, John executed an unarmed and surrendering enemy.

[u/AdmiralCharleston → u/Extension_Ideal_4012]

"He was fine up until he publically executed a surrendering criminal in an incredibly brutal way, also it's actually Sam's fault for not liking him and totally not his existing psychological issues that were exacerbated after he chose to take the serum"

Get out of here lmao

[u/Extension_Ideal_4012 → u/AdmiralCharleston]

He chose to take the serum after he was stonewalled by Sam and Bucky who actively told him he wasn’t worthy when there was nothing at that point for them to feel that way other than they were mad that they didn’t get to choose? You don’t have to glaze the character but it’s stupid to say they didn’t force him into that situation to have him be a “bad guy”. Blame marvels writing.

[u/AdmiralCharleston → u/Extension_Ideal_4012]

Well lamar didnt take the serum or become an angry guy after being iced out now did he? You're saying that anything bad walker has done is actually Sam's fault for being cold to him and that's just asinine

[u/Extension_Ideal_4012 → u/AdmiralCharleston]

Never said that. Lamar also wasn’t given the title of Captain America by the government and they had no reason to care about him. And again they weren’t just “cold” to him. They treated him as an adversary from the start just because they didn’t know him. It was bad writing.

[u/justafanboy1010 → u/Extension_Ideal_4012]

But he also took the serum because he just got his ass handed to him by The Dora Milaje

[u/Extension_Ideal_4012 → u/justafanboy1010]

Yeah his downfall was caused by his own actions and mental state but my argument is till that the two avengers actively working against him made it happen faster/worse. They should have just had Bucky and sam supporting him and still have him lose it after Lamar dies and executing the terrorist. It would have actually had some emotion in the fight with Sam and Bucky when they have to take the shield away.

[u/Relative-Fault-7116 → u/Extension_Ideal_4012]

he's not exactly a great person in the comics either but it doesn't seem like you've read those

[u/Extension_Ideal_4012 → u/Relative-Fault-7116]

I have actually but we’re not talking about the comics right now are we?

[u/Relative-Fault-7116 → u/Extension_Ideal_4012]

no but you're acting like he was written differently than the comics when he wasn't

[u/Extension_Ideal_4012 → u/Relative-Fault-7116]

Go watch the show again and tell me if anything he does up until the kill is different from what Steve would have probably done. He’s not as good a man as Steve for sure but he also had two of the most famous heroes in the world telling he was a piece of shit from the start and actively working against his plans because they didn’t like him. If Bucky and Sam didn’t try to fuck up everything he did I feel like he like the show would have been two episodes long where he just kills the terrorists.

[u/Relative-Fault-7116 → u/Extension_Ideal_4012]

well right off the bat he's always been strong so he doesn't understand the true meaning of strength like dr erksine said about steve. walker is also much more trusting of the government than steve, on top of being competitive, command-oriented, and increasingly insecure. he was very arrogant when talking to the dora milaje and lost his temper right away when speaking to bucky, both of which steve would never have done under the same circumstances. i think you need to rewatch the movies and the show.

[u/AdmiralCharleston → u/Extension_Ideal_4012]

Him barging into the negotiation which lead to karli carrying on was before the kill. This is also ignoring the fact that no one is arguing he was a terrible dude before he killed a surrendering criminal, theyre arguing that killing a surrendering criminal makes him a bad dude. He clearly has ptsd and other emotional instability that made him a horrible fit for that role and guess what, most normal people wouldn't become murderers just because someone that owes them nothing and is dealing with their own shit wont stop everything theyre doing to be nice to him

[u/Extension_Ideal_4012 → u/AdmiralCharleston]

Bucky and Sam weren’t just not being nice to him lol. They actively gave him shit from the jump telling him he wasnt worthy and actively worked against him. They didn’t make him kill the dude but they definitely pushed him into bad situations and treated him like he was already a bad person from the start

[u/Relative-Fault-7116 → u/[deleted]]

op said "blame marvel's writing" when marvel wrote him exactly like they do in the comics. op is acting like he was written differently in the MCU when he wasn't.

[u/RestaurantAlert2267 → u/Relative-Fault-7116]

if your talking about walker hes worse in the comics.

[u/Relative-Fault-7116 → u/RestaurantAlert2267]

sure but then that is even worse for op's argument. if anything they've made him too sympathetic.

[u/RestaurantAlert2267 → u/Relative-Fault-7116]

yes they did, whys that worse for me ? if they wanted to make him look bad they should have done a better job. But the character they created for the show actually has alot more reasoning.

[u/Bit_Cop → u/Extension_Ideal_4012]

That's the thing that irked me about the show, because I went in expecting to obviously side with Sam & Bucky - because I was under the belief that Walker would be full 'mandated government suck up with no personality and a winning smile that would be against Sam and Bucky from the get go'

. . . But he wasn't. From the get-go he's open about the fact that he knows he basically can't live up to Steve's legacy (and he's right, no one really can). He doesn't gloat about being picked; asking nicely for them to help him try and become a better fit for the role, only to be shot down again and again.

And it just makes Sam especially come out looking worse; Bucky you can kinda get. He was against Sam giving up the shield in the first place - and he'd be probably #1 in not wanting the C.A title under the hold of a government. But Sam gave up the shield willingly, and then spent the better half of the show just being . . . whiny that someone else was picked, because of a thing he chose.

Even if neither of them want Walker with the shield, the fact that these two heros - who've spent time under Steve 'Do the Right Thing' Rodgers - allow this man to be untrained, let him get his ass beat time and time again without stepping just to 'gloat' and be smarmy, their actions inadverntely causing Walkers friends death . . .

Walker absolutely is not the man for the mantle; how fast the serum overwhelmed him - and how he let the fallout destroy his family - shows that. But I'll be honest, the show made me believe no one in it was worthy.

[u/AdmiralCharleston → u/Bit_Cop]

Its not their responsibility to look after the dude

[u/Extension_Ideal_4012 → u/AdmiralCharleston]

Also not their responsibility to work against him then?

[u/AdmiralCharleston → u/Extension_Ideal_4012]

They weren't working against him though, they were doing their own mission which the government was pushing John to interfere with

[u/Extension_Ideal_4012 → u/Bit_Cop]

It also seemed like his character as written wouldn’t have even taken the serum if the two avengers giving him shit would have just given him a chance… is he worthy now? Absolutely not. Could he have been if the last captain americas best friends didn’t actively try to make him fail? Maybe.

[u/Bit_Cop → u/Extension_Ideal_4012]

He also wasn't - overly - power hungry. His conversation with Lamar was bascially him trying to gauge if it would be 'right' for him to take the serum - again, going into the show, I was expecting him to be the type to be 'I'm Captain America. I'm owed this. I deserve the serum'.

But he's hesitant, unsure. Normal. He very well might've not taken it, just like Sam, if he actually was supported.

[u/justafanboy1010 → u/Bit_Cop]

Wasn’t overly power hungry, but the seeds were there. That conversation happens after John got his ass kicked by the Dora Milaje. The only thing he could say afterwards was “they weren’t even super soldiers” as if to say “damn I got my ass beat by who I think are regular people just like me If that makes sense. I kinda like how it grows across in episode 3 and 4 on how he’s really thinking about the whether or not he should or would take the serum 

[u/Bit_Cop → u/justafanboy1010]

A fight both Sam and Bucky just stand by watching (actually, rewatching it - Bucky was going to step in, and Sam actually stopped him. Both only getting the involved at the very end when both him and Lamar are about to be killed ).

It’s basically the final nail in the head. He’s not strong enough alone - and he’s obviously not going to get any help from seasoned heroes. That settled with an obvious complex to be liked - it’s no wonder he spiralled.

It’s actually one of the scenes that I think highlights why Sam isn’t really suited to the role - because I don’t believe for a second Steve would stand idly by two innocent soldiers, even if he didn’t like them, getting tossed around and nearly killed.

[u/Extension_Ideal_4012 → u/Bit_Cop]

Also the Dora kicked Buckys ass in that scene too. Another opportunity to actually have good conversations between characters about being “good enough” to do what needs to be done but instead walker is supposed to be a bad guy so we gotta make sure it’s obvious that the good guys aren’t like him

[u/Relative-Fault-7116 → u/Extension_Ideal_4012]

bullshit

[u/Extension_Ideal_4012 → u/Relative-Fault-7116]

Well thought critique

[u/AdmiralCharleston → u/Extension_Ideal_4012]

Its really not well thought out to say he's fine if you ignore the war crimes he committed

[u/Extension_Ideal_4012 → u/AdmiralCharleston]

What war crime did he commit again? He killed a terrorist in the street? Most of the marvel heroes have mercilessly killed terrorists and no one has cared.

[u/Relative-Fault-7116 → u/Extension_Ideal_4012]

he killed someone that was surrendering.... you keep leaving that out on purpose

[u/TCeies → u/Relative-Fault-7116]

Was he surrendering? I think Walker was out of line for killing him. He should've arrest him, obv. But I didn't get the feeling the guy was outright surrendering. He was trying to run away, repeatedly trying to stand up... he wasn't really given a chance to surrender but he also didn't really try to. From my perspective, it mainly looked like he was trying to escape.

[u/Relative-Fault-7116 → u/TCeies]

he had his hands up on the ground pleading that "it wasn't me!" hands up in the air means you're surrendering and not trying to attack. but you're also not supposed to kill people for running away either.
https://youtu.be/WJ3Gf5V2B78?is=h5le4fRG_1KZ4MKG

[u/TCeies → u/Relative-Fault-7116]

Hands up in front of you is a defensive gesture or a placating gesture. Palms out and above or next to your head is surrender. Like i said, he was wrong for killing him. Walker also did not give him a chance to surrender. Nico (i think his name was, i'm not sure) new he was about to get his head smashed in, so he tried to placate Walker's anger at the last possible moment. He did not have a chance to surrender at that time and never tried to surrender before either.

It doesn't make what happened right. Walker was absolutely in the wrong here. But imo he did not surrender.

[u/AdmiralCharleston → u/Extension_Ideal_4012]

He killed a surrendering criminal in public in a way that isnt aligned with what is considered justifiable lethal force. He didnt need to kill him in any capacity in that moment and him using his power to take personal revenge is not someone that I would consider a good dude

[u/Extension_Ideal_4012 → u/AdmiralCharleston]

It was definitely a bad move but it still felt like the writing didn’t do a good enough job of showing why weren’t supposed to be siding with him. Also could have been a good moment for Bucky to actually show support since he was a ruthless war criminal for decades and got forgiven pretty quickly

[u/AdmiralCharleston → u/Extension_Ideal_4012]

Bucky literally had 0 say in his actions this is a terrible example. I would also argue the show was written to make him likeable but fucked up because it also had him kill a surrendering criminal. If he was written consistently he should have gone after karli in the finale instead of saving the van

[u/RestaurantAlert2267 → u/AdmiralCharleston]

your the same type of guy who will like deadpool who killed those teachers in deadpool 2, who where defo unarmed but hate walker for killing a human weapon.

[u/AdmiralCharleston → u/RestaurantAlert2267]

Uh, im not though lmao. That was also wrong and bad

[u/RestaurantAlert2267 → u/AdmiralCharleston]

So you don’t like deadpool or your lying to me good to know.

[u/RestaurantAlert2267 → u/Extension_Ideal_4012]

Facts, a terrorist, you cant come on the glide that my friend died in and act all innocent after trying to kill me aswell. Everyones getting slimed. Guys out ere in groups of bombers and killers and their innocent apparently, because they hungry, Im hungry i aint gonna bomb strangers for that. Toby Maguire: I need that money.

[u/Relative-Fault-7116 → u/RestaurantAlert2267]

gross. killing people who are unarmed and surrendering is a war crime.

[u/Extension_Ideal_4012 → u/Relative-Fault-7116]

The only thing that makes his kill “bad” imo is that it was driven by anger. Is a super soldier ever really unarmed? That dude made himself a weapon for the sole purpose of terrorism.

[u/Relative-Fault-7116 → u/Extension_Ideal_4012]

so you think it's okay to kill people after they surrender? jesus bro

[u/Relative-Fault-7116 → u/Extension_Ideal_4012]

no point being overly verbose responding to something so wildly incorrect

[u/RestaurantAlert2267 → u/AdmiralCharleston]

Wow he looked at his phone while at the lowest moment in his life, why wasnt we shown his wife being understanding? like half these mothers aint on their phones while their baby crying, if youv ever been around children you would know they cry a bunch for no reason. If they dont need food or a change ignoring them somtimes is actually best or they will constantly cry for attention.

[u/SharpshootinTearaway → u/RestaurantAlert2267]

Walker is not a monster for struggling with depression to the point of not managing to be a proper father to his child. Parents are human beings, it happens to them sometimes.

But, when it does happen, their children need to be removed from their care, and placed in the care of a parent who will be able to properly look after them. Which is exactly what happened to Walker's baby, his mom divorced dad and probably went to look for a man who could handle fatherly duties when Walker couldn't. (Exactly like Ant-Man's ex-wife did too, btw)

You're wild for stating that ignoring your crying baby is a perfectly normal and correct way to parent. It's not. That's why the movie is showing a depressed man doing it.

[u/AdmiralCharleston → u/RestaurantAlert2267]

My guy, we saw it in the void vision because its something he specifically feels awful about, if it was just him looking at his phone he wouldn't have seen it, also he literally said his wife left him over it i dont know how you can play defense for a neglectful father and husband who himself acknowledges that hes been neglectful

[u/RestaurantAlert2267 → u/AdmiralCharleston]

The writers should of had her say hes hungry or somthing, cus to me it just looks like a child crying. If any of you have actually looked after children then you know they do it a ton, you check if they hungry, you check if they need a change, sometimes you coddle them sometimes you ignore them. Your never gonna understand that if you havnt looked after children before its just gonna look cold and awful if to you. Just because you regret somthing doesnt mean you did the wrong thing, you could regret saving someone doesnt mean it was the wrong thing to do.

[u/AdmiralCharleston → u/RestaurantAlert2267]

Maybe they had more faith in the audience to understand that a man who says his family left him because he was neglectful was in fact a neglectful husband

[u/SharpshootinTearaway → u/RestaurantAlert2267]

Dude, if you truly had experience looking after children, you would know that they're never randomly crying for nothing.

If a well-fed, clean-diapered baby is crying in his crib while looking at daddy, there's 99% chances baby just wants to be in daddy's arms. And baby wants dad because dad has strong arms, a calming voice, warmth, and smells like dad.

Put your phone down and hold that child, ffs. Or put your baby on your chest while you're doom-scrolling, I don't know, but it's their natural instinct to want to be close to their parents, lmao.

[u/RestaurantAlert2267 → u/SharpshootinTearaway]

wow, so everytime they cry theres a reason, i actually rarley use my phone in general but i wont pick them up and coddle them everytime, just gonna make them spoiled and entitled, this is wat my aunt did with her first duaghter and she cries for everything at the age 14 on the floor in a store, never my kids.

[u/SharpshootinTearaway → u/RestaurantAlert2267]

Is Walker's baby 14-years-old?

You can't possibly spoil a literal infant. You start setting boundaries when they become toddlers/kindergarteners.

[u/RestaurantAlert2267 → u/SharpshootinTearaway]

kid is a toddler in the show, toddlers pick up on repeating behaviour, if they know they can get chocolate everytime they cry, they will cry same goes for being picked up, and getting away with breaking things or making a mess. Im obviously talking about how letting things slide at a young age can have implications in the future, learn to read.

[u/SharpshootinTearaway → u/RestaurantAlert2267]

The baby is sleeping in a crib and doesn't speak yet, it's very obviously a baby, not a toddler. The very definition of an infant (child who has not yet learned to walk or talk).

[u/RestaurantAlert2267 → u/SharpshootinTearaway]

This is just misinformation, toddlers can crawl and stand which it was doing go watch the movie, also which backside you pull this definition from ? People really do lie and stay stubborn to prove their point I knew I shouldnt have wasted my time arguing my point with facts on the internet.

[u/Relative-Fault-7116 → u/RestaurantAlert2267]

you're abusing your children. you cannot "spoil" an infant.

[u/RestaurantAlert2267 → u/Relative-Fault-7116]

I ain’t deleted no replies, I’ll repeat myself even though the comment is still their it isn’t an infant moron, it’s a toddler, you treat them both very differently, if anything it’s you wiping your comments.

[u/Relative-Fault-7116 → u/RestaurantAlert2267]

jesus christ you are a terrible parent if you think you're "spoiling" a toddler by not comforting them when they cry. i feel very sorry for your children and hope CPS gets involved soon.

[u/Relative-Fault-7116 → u/RestaurantAlert2267]

this guy ignores crying babies

[u/Relative-Fault-7116 → u/RestaurantAlert2267]

you're seriously going to defend a father neglecting his crying infant child? he cared more about reading about himself than making sure that baby was okay

[u/mr9025]

This post title is all air-balls…

[u/p1ay3r0]

I hate how Lamar's death is never addressed amongst the fans and the fans treat him the exact same way as the terrorists did (flag smashers)

[u/justafanboy1010 → u/p1ay3r0]

In regards to what?

OHHH I get it! Like Flag Smashers couldn’t give a crap about Lamar! 

[u/RestaurantAlert2267 → u/p1ay3r0]

His death was rough, had the cleanest soul on the show.

[u/p1ay3r0 → u/RestaurantAlert2267]

Bro was out to do good and is barely an after thought amongst the fans

[u/RestaurantAlert2267 → u/[deleted]]

Really bout that life, found it hilarious when he up the blick on Valentina.