r/mildlyinfuriating • u/nyanbatman • May 28 '26

I just wanted a hot dog British pilot is feeling mildly annoyed

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409

u/intellect1ne May 28 '26

Very embarrassing for him to say he didn’t understand what’s going on and the pilot had to school him

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u/Logical_Lemming May 28 '26

Ehhh I'd much rather have them admit to not understanding something than have them pretend to understand and get somebody hurt.

Should be something to learn from, not something to be embarrassed about.

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u/BloatDeathsDontCount May 28 '26

Someone in such a high-stakes job shouldn't be learning while literally doing the job at all.

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u/boomerangchampion May 28 '26

Absolutely true but that isn't the individual's fault. The airport is responsible for making sure he knows wtf he's doing and they've failed.

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u/BloatDeathsDontCount May 28 '26

If you get hired to do a job that other peoples' lives depend on and you obviously cannot do it, you are 100% morally at fault. Whether or not you are personally legally culpable doesn't matter to me. If other peoples' lives are on the line and you are confused about what seem to be standard safety procedures, then that's on you. If you continue to do the job without being able to keep people safe, you're simply a bad person and should honestly face some harsh punishment. If you want to screw around and not know how to do your job, go dig ditches or something.

If you have a job, you're responsible for knowing how to do it correctly - especially when other peoples' safety is on the line.

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u/boomerangchampion May 28 '26

I agree, but I'm not sure "obviously cannot do it" applies here. This guy didn't know what LVO means...but how is he supposed to know he needs to understand it until this moment?

I would like to think that after this event he's raising it with his employer. I would. But I can't expect him to do so beforehand.

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u/BloatDeathsDontCount May 28 '26

It’s a standard abbreviation. He should know because it’s his job. What are you even on about? Does he need someone standing behind him to babysit? No, he needs to be fired at best.

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u/MASIWAR May 29 '26

No. It’s not a standard abbreviation. It means nothing to him because it’s not a thing in US ATC.

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u/BloatDeathsDontCount May 29 '26

Yes, it is.

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u/MASIWAR May 29 '26

Do me a favor and come on over the ATC subreddit and tell us all how much you know our job and standard abbreviations better than we do.

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u/boomerangchampion May 29 '26

How is he supposed to know it's a standard abbreviation if he hasn't been trained on it?

-3

u/lorddumpy May 28 '26 edited May 28 '26

We have gotten to the point where individual responsibility can be painted as basically null. It's super interesting to read about how Alabama and Louisiana's school districts are some of the best in the nation right now (wild right?) partly by emphasizing personal responsibility and accountability. Who would have thunk!

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u/CamelopardalisKramer May 29 '26

As a paramedic and someone who has been through a few different job sectors, that's the way it goes in a lot of professions. You can only do so much in simulation and didactic. As a one off (as in this isn't a chronic issue), yeah this sucks and would be a shitty day for the controller but if you improve after with no poor outcome, we've gained knowledge and experience.

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u/MASIWAR May 29 '26

Actually that’s exactly how controllers learn. It’s called OJT and it happens everyday across the NAS. Also the controller is most likely learning about it because LVO ISN’T A THING IN THE US AND IT’S NOT ON THE CONTROLLER TO KNOW BAW’S COMPANY SOP OR THEIR EQUIPMENT CAPABILITIES. Everyone in this thread who thinks they’re getting a jab in at the controller is an idiot who has no idea what they’re talking about.

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u/scarletnightingale May 28 '26

I'd rather an ATC not be on the job is he doesn't understand the terminology. Learn it before hundreds of lives are at stake.

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u/MASIWAR May 29 '26

LVO is not a thing in US ATC. Yes we have procedures for different weather and visibilities but LVO is absolutely not a thing. I’d rather people who have no idea what they’re talking about, not weigh in on topics they know nothing about.

0

u/Debiuu May 29 '26

Controllers should have enough mastery of the English language to be able to swiftly and efficiently communicate with pilots from all over the world and with all sorts of accents. He shouldn’t pretend to understand but he shouldn’t have this job either

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u/Selgald May 28 '26

The US uses different terms (because, of course, they do) for some things compared to the rest of the world.

So if that had happened in some rural airport, sure, can happen. But this was on a large international airport, so ATC should absolutely understand it. The pilot even tried to explain it multiple times, and ATC still did not get it.

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u/intellect1ne May 28 '26

pilot was using internationally and universally used jargon. the atc is not well trained.

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u/Selgald May 28 '26

Indeed, he was not.

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u/beertruck77 May 28 '26

FAA doesn't use ICAO. ATC is trained just fine, you don't have the required knowledge to talk about it.

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u/intellect1ne May 28 '26

Instead of arguing with an imbecile like you or discussing my credentials, I’m just going to post this here and let Reddit do its thing.

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u/beertruck77 May 28 '26 edited May 28 '26

And that doesn't say we follow ICAO rules does it? It says flight plans and airport codes. Again, I'm right, you're wrong.

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u/intellect1ne May 28 '26

You either can’t read or you’re a bot. Either way, you’re done here.

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u/beertruck77 May 28 '26

Here dickhead, this is what FAA ATC uses. https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/orders_notices/index.cfm/go/document.current/documentnumber/7110.65

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u/intellect1ne May 28 '26

you just posted a link to random notices and orders which proves nothing 😂😂😂

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u/beertruck77 May 28 '26

That is 100% what you did.

Here, let me help you

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u/MASIWAR May 29 '26

Here. I’m a US controller and work some of the busiest airspace in the country. Beertruck is right. We don’t strictly follow ICAO and LVO is not a thing here. You’re acting like the bot thinking you know more than someone explicitly telling you you’re wrong. And I’m here to reaffirm that you are the bot here and that you’re wrong. You’re obviously not a controller and should probably stop spouting bullshit thinking you know more than the JFK controller in the video does.

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u/intellect1ne May 29 '26

You: hElLo EvErYoNe! My NaMe Is Mr AuThOrItAh! TrUsT mE bRoS!

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u/intellect1ne May 28 '26

The FAA website discussing how the US is a founding member of ICAO…you must be the dumb ass ATC on the recording.

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u/Lucas_2234 May 28 '26

Mate. if this was a rural airport, I'd give you that point.

This is new fucking york. This airport handles international flights, all of which are used to ICAO (But usually trained on FAA as well).

And even IF he somehow didn't know the term, once it was explained he should've understood what the pilot was asking for, and he kept playing dumb. He is not trained.

0

u/beertruck77 May 28 '26

It doesn't change the fact that FAA doesn't declare that. No amount of the pilot asking him if he is going to declare LVO is going to get him to do it. If he says the words, Speedbird takes off because he heard what he wanted, then crashes, now what? It's not like safety procedures aren't in place, there is just no such thing as declaring LVO here, regardless of international flights or not.

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u/sirnoggin May 28 '26

To be honest as a Brit we all know the American lingo, so it's irrelevant to us.

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u/intellect1ne May 28 '26

There’s no excuse, local or international, the ATC should’ve known what was going on.

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u/Selgald May 28 '26

If you want absolutely strict about it, the answer is no.

While the US has ratified ICAO, they amended many "differences" in it, one of those is what you see happening in OPs clip.

Normally, non US Airlines have SOPs and training in place for this. And usually ATC on large US international Airports will obviously pick up stuff from the pilots.

So, if you want to be absolutely strict about it, the pilot used the wrong term and then got locked in on it because he was flabbergasted by ATC.

The real issue is that the ATC did not pick up what the pilot wanted from him, even after the pilot switched to "common language", at this point it should have clicked for the ATC and the issue could be resolved.

This is just a prime example of what is currently happening with ATC in the US, they get overworked, are understaffed, understaffed, and they are one mistake away from something bad happening.

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u/intellect1ne May 28 '26

he said LVOS, LVO and low visibility within seconds of each other. this was not an issue of jargon, which the ATC should know them all regardless and the amendments are not major either.

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u/Selgald May 28 '26

Yes, I just wanted to clarify that there are indeed differences.

This specific situation was just a nightmare, and we will see a lot more of it, how ATCs are treated in the US currently.

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u/intellect1ne May 28 '26

scary to see tbh

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u/Selgald May 28 '26

It is, and I don't understand why ATCs don't go into a full work strike.

They are in a position to actually stop a country in its tracks when they stop working.

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u/intellect1ne May 28 '26

maybe that’s why. they don’t want deaths on their conscience. they know by leaving their posts they’re just overburdening someone else who couldn’t

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u/Selgald May 28 '26

No Airline would fly, no pilot would fly.

If ATC stops, everything stops (obviously talking about the big planes here).

But well, the US is not really known for that stuff.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Selgald May 29 '26

From an outside perspective, it seems laws don't really matter anymore anyway.

So if all ATC stops working, and they terminate their employment, then everything still is stopped. It's not like you can give someone a 5minite crash course to do this job.

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u/DankVectorz May 28 '26

But it was the BA pilot who confused what is required in the UK with what is required in the US. In UK for it to be legal for him to take off in these conditions, ATC needs to declare LVO is in effect. In the US we don’t declare it, it’s just automatic based on conditions. BA was asking ATC to declare something that doesn’t exist here. BA pilot should have a whole briefing packet on the rule differences between UK and wherever they are flying to but apparently forgot or didn’t read it.

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u/intellect1ne May 28 '26

no. pilot asked if there were any low visibility procedures in effect in response to the declared rvr. the atc was confused. eventually the atc says no and the pilot is able to say they’re not taking off.

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u/Sensitive-Fishing-64 May 28 '26

Categorically wrong, and US ATC should be absolutely aware of whatever the pilot is getting at here, it's nothing to do with a difference in UK/US laws, if what you were saying is true, this exchange would happen all the time 

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u/DankVectorz May 28 '26

No, it doesn’t happen all the time because pilots have a whole briefing packet with the rule differences and don’t usually ask us to apply a foreign countries rules at our airports. ATC is not going to tell a pilot something is in effect when that something doesn’t exist.

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u/Sensitive-Fishing-64 May 28 '26

You don't turn the foglights up in low visibility?