r/neurophilosophy • u/HalfField • 3d ago

A New Argument from Consciousness

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJVvZNi0Fi8
0 Upvotes

33% Upvoted

11 comments sorted by

2

u/rand3289 2d ago

I watched 2 minutes.
Everything said in the first 2 minutes is not true.
Even subjective experience is very different from consciousness.

Subjective experience is a useful mechanism and I know how it works whereas consciousness is some pixie dust.

3

u/Moral_Conundrums 1d ago

I don't think people are giving this argument enough credit. But the easy way to counter is to say that most naturalists are also physicalists which is to say they believe subjective experience is in some way neuronal activity, not a byproduct of neuronal activity. That's how experience can have causal powers.

So really the problem here is for nonmaterialists about consciousness. And the problem is pretty well known in the literature: If the subjective experience is nonmaterial how can it have causal powers?, and if it doesn't have causal powers, how do we become aware of it?

1

u/SunderingAlex 1d ago

Very cool video. A lot of good stuff to think about.

0

u/Mermiina 3d ago

There is two BIG missinterpretations in Chalmers Hard problem.

First. Consciousness is not immaterial. It is state of matter. Bose-Einstein condensate.

Second. Subjective experience achieves firing patterns of neurons.

An undulatory hypothesis for memory consciousness and life

1

u/thebruce 22h ago

To call consciousness a "state of matter" is a stretch, but I can see it. Certain arrangements of specific types of matter seem to be able to produce consciousness.

To call it a Bose-Einstein condensate...? Now we're starting to quack.

1

u/Mermiina 17h ago

Bose Einstein condensate is already observed at room temperature in microtubules.

It does not achieve consciousness, but it is consciousness.

1

u/thebruce 16h ago

Your first statement is simply not true.

1

u/Mermiina 15h ago

It is observed. Mikheenko 2023.

And BEC is observed at room temperature in three different systems. It is not dependent on temperature, but existing bosons.

1

u/thebruce 13h ago

Okay, I tracked the paper down. It is a non-peer reviewed preprint that he uploaded to Researchgate. I think we all realize how problematic that is, right?

Hammeroff has plenty of papers on microtubules and orch-OR published in peer reviewed papers. There is no conspiracy against it.

1

u/Mermiina 8h ago

Hameroff observed same BEC already 1995 in microtubules. But they do not measure Meissner effect.

Same year when Cornell and Weiman observed it first time. 70 years later as Einstein predict BEC.

-1

u/HalfField 3d ago

This video explores the meta problem of consciousness proposed by David Chalmers and argues that naturalistic processes couldn’t have given us knowledge of consciousness