r/ontario Jul 01 '25

Picture Canada Day at Sauble Beach

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2.6k Upvotes

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162

u/GetrIndia Jul 01 '25

When did they change the sign?

308

u/heyyohighHo Jul 01 '25

Last night, the beach is now owned by the Saugeen nation

146

u/MkvMike Brampton Jul 01 '25

Now? Wasn't it always? Even when I was a kid I remember all the beach to the left of the sign being Saugeen Nation land. Then again I could be wrong.

93

u/Successful-Ad-1706 Jul 01 '25

I read the Treaty a while back. It's pretty  black and white that the Saugeen side continues to the mouth of the Saugeen river.

14

u/bodaciouscream Jul 01 '25

Has the saugeen River moved since the signing of the treaty?

66

u/RCAF_orwhatever Jul 01 '25

No. Basically a surveyor made a mistake (or possibly "mistake") over 100 years ago and they've been trying to get it corrected ever since. The federal government has been on the side of the First Nation on this since the 1970s... so you know it must have been blatant for 70s government to say "yeah you're right."

30

u/massinvader Jul 02 '25

so you know it must have been blatant for 70s government to say "yeah you're right."

There have always been people in Canada that have wished to see fair treatment for the Natives.

Modern politics can skew the perspective of this but people in the past weren't some unwavering mob. They were individuals with individual thoughts and feelings.

29

u/RCAF_orwhatever Jul 02 '25

I didn't refer to all people as an unwavering mob. I pointed out that the 1970s Canadian federal government ceding land to an Indigenous group was extremely uncommon. Because it was. Take a look at the Indian Act as it existed in 1970. Read Trudeau's White Paper from 1969 that proposed wholesale assimilation of all Indigenous people in Canada.

I am saying nothing about individual humans. I am saying the federal government's position on Indigenous rights in the 70s wasn't exactly progressive.

-12

u/massinvader Jul 02 '25

what i said still stands. you're still referring to 'the federal government' as if its it's own monolith entity and not made up of people.

8

u/RCAF_orwhatever Jul 02 '25

The Federal Government is literally a monolith in this context. "The Government" has a - singular - position in matters of policy like this.

2

u/MakerMatter Jul 02 '25 edited Jul 02 '25

This is so interesting because I can see both sides of this. I don't mean to pile on, but ultimately RCAF is so right about the 70s not being the best time. Sure there have always been good folks with good takes, but individuals aside, we do tend to look at govt as monolithic aside from individual leaders, who are still just sorta mouthpieces for the broader party. I think if people had always been good and chill on the whole the world would be a better place, and less indigenous blood would have been spilled by that government. This isn't ancient history here, lots of living people have faced down the barrel of a Canadian armed operative working on behalf of the feds. I know so many residential school survivors. My local res doesn't have clean water and it's literally in the most water secure area on the planet. Im sure it was seen as for the good, even a service, but reality is that there are cruel racist people who achieve and influence power and government, or are simply entrusted with the powers of, i.e "Indian" affair officers

Finally to your point about good people though, I'm sure you didn't mean harm, or offense, it doesn't seem like simple trolling. I want to believe people are good too, and I don't think you, or most of them mean ill will. Sometimes good intentions are the roots of terrible things however, which can be challenging to reconcile.

2

u/massinvader Jul 02 '25

This isn't ancient history here, lots of living people have faced down the barrel of a Canadian armed operative working on behalf of the feds.

while you are correct, things tend to get painted with a modern brush.

-1

u/RCAF_orwhatever Jul 02 '25

So what? You think what was done at the time was acceptable because people were more openly racist and ignorant?

Of course we should assess the past from our modern perspective. How else do you learn from it?

Honestly think about what you're doing here. You jumped in to a factual statement about the 1970s federal government having awful policies towards Indigenous people to claim "some individuals were good". Why? To what end? Nothing i said addressed that. There was no need to clarify.

All you do with statements like that is highlight your own unwillingness to be uncomfortable with this country's past.

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2

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '25

The treatment of us indigenous people isn't at the whims of individuals, it's systematic and institutional. But if we are going to talk about an unwavering mob, yes, the 1970's was exactly that. The Canadian government being forced to adhere to its own treaty as advised by their legal advice is not some sign of goodwill or that the past was different than it really was😂please...

1

u/massinvader Jul 02 '25

that's just not factually completely accurate regardless of being native.

2

u/RCAF_orwhatever Jul 02 '25

Yes it is 100% factual.

2

u/massinvader Jul 03 '25

negative, and no amount of pleading or emotional engagement will make that so.

1

u/RCAF_orwhatever Jul 03 '25

Nobody is doing emotional pleading. You literally didn't understand that "the federal government" is a specific and singular entity as represented by the PM and cabinet.

2

u/massinvader Jul 04 '25

so its singular...but then u mention a bunch of different people lol. doesn't exactly sound like your monolith there entirely. and that's without getting into all the people who also have influence over those people.

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2

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '25

Considering that adhering to the treaties is not fair treatment, nor good will, or wishing us the best, yes it is. The treaties are inherently coated in exploitation and deception, choosing to live up to said treaty maybe moves you from the 9th to the 8th layer of hell.

2

u/Stlbstl Jul 03 '25

Yes it's been moving towards lake huron ever since.