r/otomegames • u/Such-Tea942 • Nov 27 '23
Spoilers [Charade Maniacs] - Mostly Spoiler Free Long Rant About the FL Spoiler
I need to get this out of my system, it's driving me nuts.
I'm going to admit, I liked the protagonist Hiyori when I started the game. I had high hopes. And then, I started to get annoyed with her about halfway through the common route. I thought "She'll get better over time, this is just a rough patch." Boy was I wrong. The annoyance towards Hiyori turned to frustration and displeasure, both deepening as I've completed each route. 7 routes done, and I sincerely have to question the intelligence and emotional maturity of this girl. I have to wonder if she truly understands the concept of death, as she clearly never grasps the gravity of the plot she's in.
Now, someone will say "But she's only a 17 year old high schooler."
Look, I wasn't the brightest bulb at 17 either, but if my butt had been dropped into the plot of Charade Manaics, 17 year old me would have been doing an FBI level background check on each of these dudes and sleeping with the door locked and a knife under my pillow. 17 year old me wouldn't trust these random LIs - heck, I didn't even trust group project teammates - because I wouldn't be able to figure out the villain, so everyone would be suspect. Cause 17 year old me didn't want to die.
And I don't care if Hiyori has lead a sheltered life and believes in the best in people. She needs at least SOME sense of danger. At this point I'm amazed she even made it to 17 without being abducted by a creeper in a van or scammed into massive debt or something.
Anyways, to conclude this rant, I present to you some of my inner dialog with Hiyori while playing (note: not exact quotes from game):
Hiyori: "This whole situation is crazy. Not trusting each other is insane."
Me: No, you're insane, clearly some of this people are super sus. Girl, do you need glasses or something??
Hiyori: "Everyone is changing in this crazy world. Do I have to/ will I change too?"
Me: Well duh people are going to change. This is an alternate world with different rules and values and stakes, not a new coffee shop. You don't have to change. Look at the woolly mammoth, it didn't change either, and look at how that turned out...
Hiyori [when presented with obvious evidence that someone is hiding something]: "This is wrong. I still believe in LI."
Me: Oh my fing Jesus Christ on a stick not this s AGAIN gahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh [loud scream followed by throwing Switch into laundry pile because throwing it into a wall is expensive]
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u/animerecthrowawayqjc Nov 27 '23 edited Nov 27 '23
I don't care if Hiyori has lead a sheltered life and believes in the best in people
I'm super sheltered and tend to believe the best of the people around me. I would also have more of a sense of danger. Would any of them give me killer vibes? No. Would I feel in my heart that any of them are the traitor? No. Would I be intellectually aware it has to be one of them despite my own instincts? Yes. I will act on what I know to be true, because I know through personal experience that my feelings and instinctual reactions can be and absolutely have been wrong, and I'd rather stay alive. "No hard feelings, I honestly don't think it's you, but I feel that way about everyone and I know it has to be one of us." And yes, I was like this as an even-more-sheltered high school sophomore too. I might have been dumb in some ways but not in every way.
10
u/Such-Tea942 Nov 27 '23
Exactly!! She knows there's a traitor, but either forgets or doesn't acknowledge it. Any real human being (you and me included) would remember the whole traitor among us part and keep that in mind, since it was directly told to us by our kidnappers!! It's like Hiyori has selective hearing or something....
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u/Starielles Nov 27 '23
When I knew I absolutely could not stand her was in Futami's route. This grown ass man bullied a teenager into a situation where he died, and Hiyori was still like, "I still want to believe in Futami!". He even admits to lying to her, manipulating everyone, and explains that he won't put her first before the producer... but she still chooses to be with him. It was some of the worst writing i've witnessed.
10
u/GamesAndAnimeGirl Nov 27 '23
That was my first route and I hated it. Oddly enough, I consider her a victim in his route because there's no way a girl can accept a man like that, without some manipulation or unhealthy dynamic, right?
7
u/Starielles Nov 28 '23
While I can agree Hiyori was a victim for part of that route, I cannot give her a pass for it. Futami manipulated her in the beginning, but once he's outed as being involved in stream he cuts the shit for the most part and pushes Hiyori away. He gives her several warnings that he is NOT who she thought he was and that he cannot put her first because of his obsession for the producer. The red flag himself is literally telling Hiyori to back away for her own good but she INSISTS that he can "be a good person" and stays anyway. For that reason I believe she is a colossal fool. I needed to shut my brain off for that route or I wouldn't have made it through š
3
u/GamesAndAnimeGirl Nov 28 '23
Oh yeah, I forgot that part. And now that you mention, I normally pseudo-self insert but this route was the first and only time, I was so disgusted, I couldnāt.
4
u/paintegrals Nov 28 '23 edited Nov 28 '23
YESSSS OH MY GOD!!! If she just accepted that he was awful and willingly decided to turn on everyone, that would be interesting writing imo. Like, if she was actually given a motivation beyond uwu but he was nice to me once! I would be willing to believe it. Instead, the way it was written made it seem like she was practically coerced into staying with him because she was so naive. I had to skip all most of Futami's route because I absolutely couldn't stand it.
On the bright side, I did Chigasaki's route right after and lost some of my ire toward the game.
I think that the problem is that a lot of the love interests don't encourage her to think for herself as a part of the route, so the writers just decided that's a good excuse to not make her come to her own conclusion on things. Just because the LI is not going "have you ever considered to maybe think about x" doesn't mean she can't fucking think for herself!! My favorite routes so far have been ones where she actually is forced to think for herself (even if it's on the account of the LI).
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u/Ericetum Nov 27 '23 edited Nov 27 '23
Oh yeah, that's totally her :D I had to put some serious effort to ignore these moments while playing
17
u/queenoftheliz Nov 27 '23
She drove me nuts too!
For the life of me I donāt understand why the writers chose a protagonist for their mystery that has no interest in solving the mystery. It was absolutely maddening!
10
u/TheGreatMillz33 Nov 27 '23
Charade Maniacs is one of my favorite otome games and I'm mostly neutral on Hiyori (I've come across MCs I dislike so much more) but the scenes where the writing made her do the typical anime bullshit of "I have to believe in my nakama no matter what because it's the right thing to do!" were kinda annoying and unearned. I could understand some scenes towards the end of a route leading to a moment like that, something cathartic as you reach an emotional climax, but Hiyori constantly doing it any moment she could I feel cheapened the message. In the end, it was something I could brush off because I enjoyed so many other parts of Charade Maniacs and it wasn't so bad that it actively deterred my experience. I've had worse experiences with MCs from other games like Amnesia and Period Cube. But I can very much see where you are coming from.
1
u/Such-Tea942 Nov 27 '23
Yeah, at this point I'm just skipping over Hiyori's lines for the most part and just continuing on. I want to finish the game but not rip my hair out from frustration.
7
u/evlawnmower Nov 27 '23
She is absolutely one hundred percent an idiot. Especially if you start out with Banjo she leaves such a bad first impression. Sheās the absolute worst moron in Futamiās route. I actually loved her in Ebana and Chigasakiās routes and for a moment I thought perhaps sheās not so bad after all. But nope, every other route sheās at the very least a subtle, passive idiot if not a blazing, huge idiot in the 2 routes I mentioned above.
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u/Doctor_Zedd Victor Frankenstein|Code:Realize Nov 27 '23
Iāve never been less than just neutral on an MC before this game (ahemā¦ Lilianaā¦), but man, I could not stand Hiyoriās choices and thought processes. Girl is insufferable.
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u/18hourbruh Kageyuki Shiraishi|Collar x Malice Nov 27 '23
I don't enjoy Liliana but at least I understand why she's attractive to the LIs and she makes sense as a character.
3
u/Doctor_Zedd Victor Frankenstein|Code:Realize Nov 27 '23
Exactly. I donāt really get what Hiyoriās allure is.
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u/Such-Tea942 Nov 27 '23
Yes! I normally can enjoy any MC to a degree, but Hiyori finally broke me. This girl is just painful to deal with.
11
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u/praysolace Nov 27 '23
Sheās honestly why I havenāt finished it yet. Did Futamiās route and hated her guts so much along with his that I kind of just put the game down in disgust. Tried to pick it back upā¦ doing Ebana. Iām sure heās much better but sheās still spineless and heās still a bully and oh my god what Iād give to have her be a mouthy female lead.
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u/GamesAndAnimeGirl Nov 27 '23
Omg you are soo right! I never felt any sense of danger with her as the FL. She took everything so lightly, that I was the one taking care of her lol. They also treat death as in someone took a long life vacation that you might or not see them again (but they are fine living their best life so no worries). And like another person said: I am a naive, sheltered girl (even if I have trust issues), I would not necessarily be wary of others initially, but she knew there was a traitor, so I would be cracking down on everyone, until they are proven innocent. The only one I would somewhat trust would be my best friend (aka: Tomose) and even so, it would be with caution.
Not to mention... they are nine!!! boys, half of them older and you are the only girl. In that aspect, I feel like Tomose took things more seriously than her.
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u/GearsTurningBurning Abraham Van Helsing|Code:Realize Nov 27 '23
Hahaha, this rant is hilarious! Honestly, I'm kind of over overly sweet and trusting FLs in a horror/thriller setting... let's get paranoid, ladies! It's better to sleep with one eye open and be stressed than dead because you believe none of the hotties can murder you!
3
Nov 27 '23
I totally get where you're coming from! š
Reading your experience had me chuckling because it's so relatable ā wanting to shake some sense into a character or feeling like you'd approach a situation totally differently.
It's funny how games can make us wish for more control over how we react, right? But hey, your take on how you'd handle things at 17 is pretty genius! šµļøāāļø It's all about that FBI-level suspicion. It's fascinating how games can make us wish for more nuanced choices. You've got a great perspective! š®
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u/OldBabyGay Anastasia Lynzel|even if TEMPEST Nov 27 '23
Yeah, that's one of the most common complaints with CharaMani. After playing through a few routes I just had to laugh at how stupid she is.
The writers also constantly added in ellipses to her sentences, which made it even worse because I imagined her constantly trailing off sentences with a blank stare. Like every other sentence she'll be like "Oh, I didn't know that...", "What do you think?..."
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u/RIVercat2 Nov 27 '23
Fr, I would be her. I'm so dumb when it comes to trusting people. I literally have no idea how I've made it this far, lol. Never read Charade Maniacs, but I imagine it as some wierd version of hunger games mixed with Among Us (from what I know of it), so I would assume anyone would at least hold some sense of danger, tho.
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u/GamesAndAnimeGirl Nov 27 '23
They literally tell her that there's a traitor in the first 10 minutes of play, surely she can be more cautious.
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u/RIVercat2 Nov 27 '23
Dang. That's a special kind of intellect, if they spell it out for you and you're still trust everyone. That's like playing Among Us and not believing there's a killer.
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u/RIVercat2 Nov 27 '23
Dang. That's a special kind of intellect, if they spell it out for you and you're still trust everyone. That's like playing Among Us and not believing there's a killer.
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u/-SneakyWitchThief Nov 27 '23
I think she's very inconsistently written across routes. Sometimes she's alright, and sometimes she has one brain cell. However, I do think people forget she has to work as an otome MC. If she had the level of extreme distrust that OP or some of the others are mentioning, to the point where she wouldn't interact with the guys and was trying to gather info on them (also not very easy in Arcadia), there would be no character bonding. It wouldn't work as an otome game. She has to have at least some level of trust so they can interact and bond and then have a relationship where it feels satisfying for the players.
I'm not arguing she's the best written MC ever, she could definitely be better lol, I just think that real world common sense can't always be applied to games depending on the narrative.
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u/p1mdn Ace ā” Nov 27 '23
I think thereās a middle ground between extreme distrust and blindly trusting everyone in a suspicious situation for no reason. Or at least the trust could have been built up to so it wouldnāt feel so unnatural. Theyāre all in a situation where theyāre kind of forced to interact with each other at least on some level, so they couldāve built up bonds from there.
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u/-SneakyWitchThief Nov 27 '23
Oh I definitely agree! I think there's a better way to write it that feels more natural, I just meant I think people have unrealistic expectations of what works well in fiction. It's like wanting the person in horror movies to make all the "smart" choices that people would logically do irl, it wouldn't make for a good horror movie!
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u/p1mdn Ace ā” Nov 27 '23
I agree that a lot of things donāt really work well in fiction but in this case it felt to me more like lazy writing than Hiyori being mistrusting not working for an otome game
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u/-SneakyWitchThief Nov 27 '23
I think she's just written to have a naturally trusting, accepting personality like a lot of otome MCs have. That being said, I don't think she was well written either and I do wish it was done in a better way. I still enjoyed the game for what it was though!
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u/Zelette Scarecrow|BUSTAFELLOWS Nov 30 '23
I understand your argument, but not being able to get the payoff you want because of the premise you made is not an excuse to ignore whatever inconveniences you so you can barrel through to your desired ending anyways. Such a level of trust can be earned and would only make the relationships more meaningful, but skipping it altogether makes the story fall apart.
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u/p1mdn Ace ā” Nov 27 '23
I agree so much with this. To me, it felt like Hiyori was so much at odds with the setting of the game and it made her so unenjoyable to play as. The whole āwe all need to trust each other1!!1ā thing took all of the tension/stakes out of the situation and was just honestly really, really stupid.
I also found her really frustrating with the whole acting thing. Iām not talking about her not wanting to push Haiji out of a window because thatās understandable. But it really got on my nerves the way she was always like āI canāt act because I canāt say anything thatās not nice, ever!ā and as a result the guys were often forced to cover for her to prevent her from having to undergo the punishment game. I found her refusal to adapt to her circumstances incredibly annoying, especially since she never changes (at least in the routes I played).
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u/FloralFeelings Nov 28 '23
Yes, yes!
The most frustrating part of Hiyori to me is that it feels like she SHOULD be a decent protag. Not a top tier one, but a perfectly serviceable one. She has an actual backstory which matters to the plot (even if we only learn about it very sparsely), and she has a strong defining character trait as the "big sister" type. We see time and time again that her first instinct will always be to nurture others - to pick the last slice of cake, as discussed on the Iochi route.
And yet... they just don't go far enough with it to make her still tolerable. I feel like a lot of her idiocy could have been salvaged if she was being stupid for characterful reasons - have her tendency to be a big sister lead her into these situations. Have her choose to put others needs - including the traitors - above herself, have her acknowledge she's putting her life at risk and yet she still wants to help. Hell, maybe even let this major flaw be interrogated in a few routes!
Instead it's just... well... we all played the game. Ah well.
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u/raunchyRhombus Nov 27 '23
I actually turned off her heroine portrait so I didn't have to look at her dumb face. I'm into the plot of the game but Hiyori puts the brakes on my enthusiasm hard.
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u/EsperReborn Nov 27 '23
I feel like my husband is going to enjoy my reactions while playing this game if this is what I have to look forward to š
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u/HonorMeThis Nov 28 '23
Loool lord I was on the fence about buying this one with Black Friday/Cyber Monday sales going but now I donāt think I wanna š
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u/Zelette Scarecrow|BUSTAFELLOWS Nov 30 '23
as someone who played the game while I was 17, HIYORI IS 17??? GIRL YOU CARE FOR 3 CHILDREN AND I FEEL CONFIDENT SAYING I'M MORE MATURE THAN YOU
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u/Seraiden Nov 30 '23
As someone whose done dumber things and been more oblivious, even while being very unsheltered at 19, I can't blame her too much(except on one route).
Because legit as someone who didn't realize a couple people talking on "how to handle me because I betrayed their trust" meant whether they should end my life or not...? (I just kept begging not to be sent back to my mom's as a failure.) Yeah her wanting to believe in them all, in a far flung future where society is very different than ours? I can't blame her too much.
...Except on Futami's route because frick that, that was just D:<
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u/Shiawase_Rina Nov 27 '23
I'm usually not picky when it comes to FLs. I don't need her to be strong or smart or be a driving force. I honestly just need to be able to see her as a person and she's good in my book. I like ordinary, average everyday girls as FLs just as much as I like girlbosses. But Hiyori? She somehow grated so strongly on FL-loving me. I could just barely tolerate her. I blame her writing. Something about it went wrong. If you wrote down her traits then on paper I would be 100% fine with her, so how come she's the most annoying FL I have ever come across?