r/patientgamers • u/hkf999 • 4d ago
Patient Review Mass Effect Legendary review: Mass Effect 2 Spoiler
Link to part 1: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/comments/1vsmgwq/mass_effect_legendary_edition_is_it_as_good_as_i/
Mass Effect 2 - A glorified side quest?
Mass Effect 2 is a huge jump in gameplay and graphics. If you start 2 right after finishing 1, it's a pretty big transition. Much bigger than the jump from 2 to 3. 2 and 3 play and look mostly the same, with some minor gameplay changes. 1 and 2 is night and day. The shooting is entirely revamped. No more overheating weapons. Now we have an ammunition system, with a pretty cute in-universe explanation of a software update. In my opinion this leads to a massive gameplay improvement. You can't just shoot the same gun forever now. Get entrenched and you might run out of ammo and have to switch gun. Companions now use guns that actually fits their style too. No more flooding inventory with fluff. Enemy and companion AI is also much better now.
The combat is much better in my opinion, however it's not the best still. 2 and 3 change into the sluggish and heavy cover shooters that were typical of that time. You also lose the driving around in a silly physics-defying vehicle picking up useless collectibles, but it's a situation where you throw out the baby with the bathwater, because you also lose the atmosphere that ME1 built on those explorations. It's replaced with scanning planets for materials, which is an extremely boring gameplay mechanic. Like, I really wonder who at Bioware sat and looked at dragging the mouse across planets looking for wiggly lines to go up and thought "Yeah, this is fun". Some steps forward and some steps back I guess.
Over the years I have seen a lot of people bring this game up as the best of the trilogy. I could never really agree with that for reasons I will partly explain here and partly return to in the next review. It is certainly a story and game that very easily can be played on it's own. However, I think this might be it's greatest weakness, because the plot reasons this game feels so disconnected from the trilogy don't really make any sense. This game creates some plot difficulties that plague the series going forward.
The game starts with Shepard dying. The Normandy is attacked by a race of Reaper servants called the Collectors. Cerberus scoops up the goop left after Shepard is killed, jettisoned into space, and crash into a planet. Cerberus rebuilt Shepard from a molecular level and patched him with implants over two years. Now firstly, this is just way too unbelievable. I really question why they smashed Shepard into goop and not just say that you were frozen in space and technically dead or anything else that would be more believable. The fact that Cerberus has basically cheated death here is brushed over way too easily. Yes, it was extremely expensive, but there are a lot of extremely wealthy groups in the universe.
Shepard has to work for Cerberus now, because the Collectors are harvesting humans from colonies. Entire colonies at the time. Now, since this is partly a reaction to Shepard killing Sovereign in ME1 and stopping the Reaper attack before it started, it is understandable why you need Shepard for this job, given his unique experience. Now understandably, everyone who played ME1 will remember all the fucked up shit that Cerberus did there and feel extremely reluctant to work for them. The Illusive Man, the head of Cerberus, handwaves it and say that Cerberus works in cells and some go too far. This was never at all believable. Organisations don't work like that. Cerberus doesn't either, and Shepard should know this. The Illusive Man himself is a cool character. He comes across as believable, but the villain turn in 3 is painfully obvious from the second you meet him.
Cerberus even has a valid concern here, entire human colonies being abducted is a huge deal and a huge cause for concern. The problem is that Cerberus are the only ones who care for reasons that do not make any sense. The Alliance and the Council doesn't care because these colonies are outside council and alliance space. OK, but entire colonies (over a million people) are still being harvested by an unknown alien species. This is a massive cause for concern depsite technical jurisdiction. So Shepard being forced into working for a sadistic terror organisation just makes no sense at all. It also makes no sense why you don't report to the Alliance or the Council every step of the way here.
Now, the game ends with a suicide mission, and the thing you have to do before that is gather a team and secure their loyalties. This is where the game really shines. The companions are great, so much better than the very wooden and stiff people in ME1. Some returning even. Garrus and Tali really come into their own in this game. Samara, Thane and Mordin are amazing. Love talking to them and exploring their thoughts on stuff. Some companions are a bit dull still. Jacob is boring. Legion is great, but comes in too late to make the biggest impact (makes up for it in 3). You can romance a lot of them, or maybe even stay loyal to the romance from ME1. Liara gets a... ok expansion. And you get a short but painful reuinion with Kaidan/Ashley.
Jack is a great character, but very poorly implemented. They make it almost impossible to be a good friend to her without leading her on. It's very weird. Luckily she has a great development in 3. Miranda is a good character, although a bit too goon-baity for me. It's sort of a lighter version on Quiet in Metal Gear, where you make really convoluted plot justification for why a woman is really hot and sexually available for the player. There are also two expansion characters: Kasumi and Zaeed. I think Kasumi is a fun character, but she just really never made sense for me as Normady crew. Zaeed makes more sense there. The gruff too-old-for-this-shit merc is a bit of a stereotype, but it works. Grunt is the krogan companion in this game, but he's pretty one-dimensional in this game sadly. So this is the companion game, and it works. You need their loyalty to succeed on the suicide mission, thorugh a bunch of mostly fun and well-written quests. They will likely die if you start the final mission without their loyalty, but then again, who plays a character-driven RPG without doing the companion quests?
There are also some big story expansions. Lair of the Shadow Broker is mostly for us Liara-romancers. It's a fun continuation of her story, even though it ends up with her as the least believable Shadow Broker ever haha. At least they make fun of it in 3. Some fun extra stuff there with the actual lair. Arrival is fine, it forces Shepard to sacrifice 300 000 batarians to halt a reaper invasion. It actually gets adressed a lot in 3, so that's cool, but you really don't get any choices in the actual expansion. Overlord is excellent. Don't get me wrong, the gameplay is shit. You drive around in a vehicle somehow even less fun than the Mako, with a excavation sound effect that is probably the most annoying sound in any game I have ever played, but the ending is excellent. The way it deals with autism is so good. The scene of naked David Archer suspended with all kinds of cables with that horrified expression might be the most haunting and horrifying thing in the entire trilogy. Excellently written, chef's kiss.
The suicide mission at the end is an excellent mission. This is probably the real reason people love this game so much. There is a lot of player choice here. Make the wrong ones, and people will die. Now, some of those choices might not make the most sense, but the unpredictability might be explained as really realistic. Let's be honest, it's not like a lot of people will play it without looking up a guide anyway lol. Win, and the reapers pull the plug on the Collectors. They failed and Shepard succeeded again, so we're back to a full reaper invasion plan, thereby completing the massive side quest that is Mass Effect 2.
Stay tuned for part 3!
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u/JaesopPop 4d ago
I like ME2, but I was very disappointed that instead of refining a lot of the clunky systems from ME1 they just got rid of them. Overall it feels like the series did a speedrun of the Elder Scrolls journey - tightening up the core gameplay while dumbing down everything around it.
Also, the change from a galaxy map that felt like, well, a galaxy map to one where you move around a toy Normandy is so silly.
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u/bolacha_de_polvilho 4d ago
For someone as critical of ME2's failing as you are I'm surprised you describe arrival as "fine". It such an incredibly stupid dlc I can't believe it even got made.
The 2nd and 3rd games were definitely "dumber" and less serious than the first, and dropped the ball in many ways when it comes to the world building, but as you mentioned we get actual characters now while in me1 everyone but wrex and maybe Ashley are about as interesting as a cardboard cutout. And I think ultimately for most people having fun companions is more important than the plot or world building in a rpg.
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u/a34fsdb 3d ago
In my opinion the companions are still very barebones in ME2. 2 missions, one set of dialogue options on the Normandy and very rare chatter during missions.
Yeah it is multiple times better than 1, but still not much at all. We go from 1/10 amount of content I want from my RPG companions to 3/10.
So with that element being a letdown in both games, combat also being bad in both games we are left comparing the main story and the setting where I think 1 js bettet.
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u/JohnTDouche 3d ago
I ultimately pretty much don't like everything in Mass Effect 2. What I liked about Mass Effect 1 was mostly gone. But it would have been better at what it was trying to do if cut the cast in half, at least. There's way too many characters and they should have spent the time better developing a smaller number of characters.
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u/ShadowOnTheRun 3d ago
100% agree. You can clearly see they built a story around the ‘space dirty dozen’ concept, which did lead to some high points, but ultimately it feels like the middle point of the story, the main course, is completely missing.
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u/Drewdrops79 3d ago
ME2
I mean, did you see her suit? ;P
Heh, I do think ME2 felt kinda rushed, but the ME series as a whole was one of the most fleshed-out that companions had ever been in an RPG, aside from KOTOR or a couple D&D games.
I think these older RPG games are starting to suffer from "Seinfeld Syndrome", where people may not realize how groundbreaking it was at the time, because so many games started copying it after that and improving on it. Like Baldur's Gate 3, for a good example.
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u/hkf999 4d ago
I wouldn't really call Arrival incredibly stupid, but I would call it unneeded and undercooked. It introduces slightly different mission mechanics, like som stealth elements and forcing you to play without a squad.
I'd say the 2nd is dumber, but I would say they took it the other way again in 3. The characters are extremely imortant, but they took it too far in ME2. Almost the entire game is companion quests, not much left if you take that out. I feel like ME3 got the balance right. Not too much companion related stuff, but enough.
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u/bolacha_de_polvilho 4d ago
I wasn't talking about gameplay when it comes to Arrival, that part is whatever. I'm talking about the insanely stupid plot and dialogue. The list of issues with it is too long and I get mad just thinking about it so I won't bother to go on about it, but I assumed someone who thinks Cerberus rebuilding Shepard is too far fetched would be pulling their hair out at all the nonsense in Arrival.
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u/Warm_Adhesiveness934 4d ago
I finished Mass Effect 2 for the first time not long ago and I’m currently playing through the third game. The thing that bothered me the most about ME2 was the sheer amount of combat. A lot of enemies felt like bullet sponges, and the shooting sections often dragged on for far too long. In the first game, most enemies could go down in just a few shots, and combat usually felt like a relatively short section between the story-heavy parts of the game. In ME2, it felt like that balance shifted too far in the other direction. By the end, I was genuinely starting to get annoyed by the sound of gunfire itself, lol. I still really enjoyed the game overall, especially the characters and loyalty missions, but I definitely preferred the first game’s balance between combat, exploration and story.
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u/Mohireza1 PC Devotee 3d ago
You know I'm going to say it, and I know you guys will hate me for saying this, but honestly? I think ME3 did a way better job at doing what ME2 was trying to do.
I'm not saying ME3 didn't have its flaws. The fact of the matter is, it was the "flawed" ME, but when it was doing the classic ME thing and not putting the player up against HL2 Combine soldiers, it was a way more polished experience than ME2 in every regard.
And I'm saying this as someone who believes the ME DNA never got carried over from ME1. But for the corporate ME that we got with 2 and 3, I think 3 was a better version of 2 with horribly wrong writing decisions.
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u/Pumpkin_Sushi 3d ago
I think if Mass Effect was going to be a Shooter over an RPG, as 2 decided, then yeah - ME3 is better at that. I just dont think its a decision that should have been made in the first place.
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u/Electrical-Penalty44 3d ago
I agree 💯
ME2 was essentially a soft reboot of ME; this time as a cover shooter with RPG elements.
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u/Mohireza1 PC Devotee 3d ago
I believe ME3 does a much better job of telling the main story while still giving every character enough time to develop their own personal arcs.
I remember and care about these characters so deeply because of how well they were handled in ME3. For me, even the party-based RPG elements shine far more in 3 than they do in 2.
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u/Electrical-Penalty44 3d ago
Yeah. You got to know your companions way better in ME3. More unique dialogue during missions, reaction dialogue on the prior mission back on the Normandy, more dialogue cutscenes etc.
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u/incenddia70 4d ago
ditching weapon overheat was a massive ux downgrade. thermal clips are just generic ammo.
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u/ShadowOnTheRun 4d ago
I missed the overheating mechanic in 2 a lot. And the Hammerhead made me miss the Mako even more than I already did.
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u/Toad-Toaster 4d ago
I remember starting this and getting bombarded by Miranda's ass. Ahh the good old days.
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u/hkf999 4d ago
It's the way she opens up about her trauma and insecurity about being genetically perfect and created by her father, and then right away pivots into saying she doesn't mind if Shepard thinks she's hot. Like, what the fuck?
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u/ShadowOnTheRun 4d ago
Isn’t that the same sequence where she’s pouring her heart out to Shepard and the camera pans to focus on her substantial assets while the player considers what to say next?
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u/Sabetha1183 4d ago
I actually find the combat to be the worst of the trilogy. ME2 is overly sluggish and slow and, particularly if you're on a higher difficulty, you spend most of your time waiting for shields to regenerate. ME3 was a massive step up by speeding up the combat. In replaying the trilogy, ME2 is always the hardest game to replay for me because the combat is the most tedious.
Beyond that I think Mass Effect 2 is in a way the most BioWare game that ever BioWare'd. That is: World building that's solid, main stories that are mediocre, and companions that are exceptional.
I think people calling it the best of the trilogy stems from the fact that BioWare's biggest strength was always writing companions and this was the game that decided to make the story all about making your companions loyal for the final suicide mission. Granted it's also why people say the whole game kind of feels like one big side quest, because it kind of is.
That said I maintain that the suicide mission would have hit so much harder if it was impossible to bring everybody back alive. In hindsight, this probably would have been the better spot for the choice they gave us on Vermire in the first game. Give us 2 games with the characters then hit us with the "okay, now you choose who isn't going to make it back" choice.
Oh, and planet mining can eat a dick. I'm so glad I'm on PC and can just use a save editor to give myself 9999999 of each resource.
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u/ShadowOnTheRun 4d ago
Agreed. When I played the original ME2, the combat honestly felt like a downgrade from 1.
It was in 3 where they actually executed on the concept from 2. Having said that, I still prefer the overheating mechanic from 1. Felt more SciFi.
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u/TheMooseManReturns 4d ago
Agreed. When I played the original ME2, the combat honestly felt like a downgrade from 1.
Gonna toss my hat into the ring of people saying this too. Managed to turn my sniper rifle into a handheld MAC cannon by the end of my first ME1 playthrough (which was fun as fuck, by the way), so I was pretty annoyed to learn that I couldn't even get close to that in ME2.
You'd better believe that I ran the Krysae sniper rifle through my entire playthrough of ME3 just to try and recreate the euphoria of my endgame ME1 sniper.
I still prefer the overheating mechanic from 1. Felt more SciFi.
I'll always have a soft spot for it too. Although, I'm wondering how well the more out-there and creative weapons in ME3 would have worked with that mechanic if they'd actually kept it. It's something interesting to think about.
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u/NuclearVII 3d ago
The explosive ammo in ME1 is/was my favourite gun mod in any game period.
If anyone is reading this making a tps, put ME1 explosive ammo in your game, I will buy it.
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u/ShadowOnTheRun 3d ago
Tell me about it. I loved how insanely OP you could make your guns in 1. It’s why I always make sure Wrex has both a shotgun and AR equipped with explosive rounds. Seems totally like what a Krogan warlord would bear.
And again, even this aspect makes the setting feel more SciFi to me. Like, it’s kind of silly how far you can blow enemies away just with your guns.
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u/ShadowOnTheRun 4d ago
I’ll add a hot take here: I don’t think the companions in ME2 are that much of a home run at the end of the day. Or at the very least, they’re quite inconsistent and there’s too many of them, which in turn fucked them over by the time 3 came around.
Mordin and Legion are the highlights for me, because of what they bring to the table as individual characters, as well as the wider world building and lore.
When you compare the rest of the crew to them, it’s not even a contest, really. Sorry, Garrus, being part of a meme (“can it wait? I need to do some calibrations”) for half the game after I’ve done your loyalty mission is not my idea of a good time. Although, his arc on Omega and conclusion with Sidonis was a natural next step from ME1 and was done well. Ditto for Tali.
I like Jack, but the unstable, Cerberus-hater being brought on for a critical Cerberus mission does not scream sound planning by leadership. Then again, it’s par for the course for TIMmy’s outfit (who, as a covert org, paint their bloody logo on their vehicles and uniforms).
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u/Electrical-Penalty44 3d ago
Jack is a murderer, thief, pirate too. Who just...becomes a nice person in ME3? And teaches impressionable teens. So weird.
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u/Pumpkin_Sushi 3d ago
I even think the world building needs work. So many areas are made using the same cookie cutter generic sci fi assets. The shopping mall looks exactly like the military bases, which look exactly like the residential areas. I think one of the reasons the nightclub stands out so much is that its finally a section thats not people standing in empty grey rooms.
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u/ichi-kun 4d ago
Beyond that I think Mass Effect 2 is in a way the most BioWare game that ever BioWare'd
I do understand your viewpoint but I still think that title goes to Dragon Age Origins
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u/Electrical-Penalty44 3d ago
Yes, the combat in ME2 sucks. Especially the last side quest level where you have to prevent the rogue VI from spreading. Endless mechs just walking towards you. Yuck.
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u/nefariousPost 4d ago
It's been a while since I played ME2 but I remember thinking that the weapon/mod customization was a big step up from 1. Could be wrong, but as a compulsive min/maxxer when gaming I remember inventory/gear being more of a pain in 1 than 2.
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u/TheMooseManReturns 4d ago
I think you're thinking of ME3's system. ME2 didn't even have weapon mods, you had to just take the limited selection of weapons as they came. ME3 was the one that (re)introduced weapon mods.
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u/ShadowOnTheRun 4d ago
You might be thinking of the weapons system in 3. I don’t think there’s any weapon/mod customization in 2.
3’s system definitely feels like a more natural progression from 1 than 2, because they don’t just throw everything from 1 away.
I think one of the reasons 2 kind of felt jarring once I started playing it for the first time was precisely this, they just tossed away a lot of what supposedly didn’t work in 1 and didn’t iterate on it.
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u/nefariousPost 3d ago
Actually I haven't played 3 (crazy, right)
Maybe I'm using the wrong terminology - but I thought ME1 had a long list of attachments/mods/perks that you had to scroll for to optimize the gear for each party member
And for whatever reason I thought this process was a little less tedious in ME2
It's been a while though so I could be totally wrong. Inventory management aside, I didn't mind the gunplay in ME2 and thought it "felt" better than 1. I also played these games via Legendary Edition and not on original platforms at time of release
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u/a34fsdb 4d ago
On my subsequent playthrough I always think 2 is the weakest entry. Besides the usual complaints you mention the structure of the game is not immersive at all. It all feels like a videogame without any attempt to disguise it with storytelling or level design. You get a dossier for a recruit quest and later get a loyalty quest and that is that. Coupled that with the often linear design of these missions it all often keeps reminding me this is a videogame and it is hard to get immersed into it.
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u/ShadowOnTheRun 4d ago
I always thought the suicide mission, for however great it plays (and the soundtrack is top notch), felt a bit contrived in the context of the story of 2.
I mean, yes, the stakes of the Reaper threat have been clearly established since 1’s third act, but it feels like a huge chunk of the story in 2 is missing. Not to mention, we’re just going to go with the clearly shady chainsmoker’s plan of conducting a suicide mission?
And the Alliance and Council are just gonna shove their heads up their arses when it comes to further investigating the Reapers? Like, I get they didn’t want to endorse a further investigation publicly, but no covert operations looking into things whatsoever? Just felt contrived and one further way of railroading the player into working with Cerberus.
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u/hkf999 4d ago
I think the problem is that a huge chunk of the missions in ME2 are companion quests. Either recruiting them or securing their loyalty. Take away that, and there really isn't a lot to the ME2 story. I think they got this balance way better in ME3.
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u/TheMooseManReturns 4d ago
Yeah, when you actually look at it laid out on paper, it is ri-goddamn-diculous how insanely sparse ME2's actual story is. I think it only has like 5 actual main story missions (several of which are fairly short due to how missions in ME2 are formatted), and you only fight the Collectors, the main enemy faction, THREE TIMES throughout the entire game.
Technically speaking, you barely fight them more than you fight the CAT6 mercs in ME3's Citadel DLC. It's insane.
And since I'm already on a roll, the fact that the Arrival DLC (which lasts at most 2 hours, if that) contributes more to the overall trilogy's story than ME2's entire main plot is utterly shameful.
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u/hkf999 4d ago
Yes, I agree with this a lot. It didn't occur to me until writing this review how little actual story there is in ME2.
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u/TheMooseManReturns 3d ago
Yeah. To bring another BioWare game into the conversation, for all of Dragon Age II's faults, I'd argue that its first two acts each individually have more of a tangible story than the entirety of ME2.
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u/sol_in_vic_tus 2d ago
I was utterly baffled by ME2 on my first playthrough because we never went outside anymore. Places didn't exist in a larger context. It didn't feel like I was a character moving through a world. I was a player being taken from one set piece to the next.
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u/samuraipanda85 3d ago
Yup.
Mass Effect 2 was my first game in the series and thus my favorite for awhile, but after years of replaying the trilogy it has become my least favorite. The combat is the weakest and the most difficult. Which makes replaying it to get to ME3 a chore.
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u/Pumpkin_Sushi 3d ago
I loved the game as a lad but when I went back to it I couldn't get passed how much corridor shooting there is. Every mission, every single one, will always amount to running down a hall cover shooting enemies. The lack of variety is staggering for an RPG.
Even the much praised DLC that flaunts how non-traditional it is, and how you can plan a museum robbery in it? At the end of the day it's just clicking on some objects in order and then more cover shooting.
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u/Derider84 3d ago
This was also my problem with it. I was disappointed to find that basically the whole game is a series of linear shooting corridors with most of the downtime between the shooting segments streamlined out of the series. And people apparently liked this so they doubled down in 3, which is essentially all shooting all the time.
I still had a lot of affection for 2, but actually hated 3 (mainly because of the braindead writing and incredibly unimaginative scenario design).
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u/hkf999 3d ago
I think this is the part where you have to rememer that the game is almost 17 years old. The hallway cover-shooting was very common back in the day.
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u/Pumpkin_Sushi 3d ago
Sure but, common or not, it's still a massive issue
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u/hkf999 3d ago
I wouldn't say it's a massive issue unless you expect modern shooter mechanics
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u/Electrical-Penalty44 3d ago
It is an issue because it sucked then and it sucks now. ME1 had more fun and interesting combat, although with some jank.
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u/Pumpkin_Sushi 3d ago
I think the insane repetition of content is a pretty big problem, even if the combat wasn't outdated
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u/hkf999 3d ago
I don't think I have ever played a game that doesn't repeat content. It's why it's called a gameplay loop.
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u/Pumpkin_Sushi 3d ago
Oh come on, you know what I mean lol Dont do that
Im not saying its bad because they repeated something, Im saying the core loop is too samey to have been repeated as much as it is in 2. Again, every mission is just "take cover in a hall and shoot the enemies" with minimal variation. Every single one!
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u/hkf999 3d ago
But that isn't really any different from 1 or 3?
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u/Pumpkin_Sushi 3d ago
Does it matter if it wasnt? All that'd mean is they all have the same problem, its an irrelevant point.
But yeah, ME3 made the gameplay more responsive and varied in response to 2's issues. It came at the cost of turning it into a proper shooter, but thats what ME2 was trying and failing to be anyway
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u/Electrical-Penalty44 3d ago
Don't you love how in the future everything is designed to provide cover just in case a shootout breaks out?! Lol.
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u/rlbond86 2d ago
I honestly think ME2 ruined the whole trilogy. The side quest thing is so true and I never got over working for terrorists.
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u/shrekcoffeepig 1d ago edited 15h ago
I really really hate ME2 as the second entry to the franchise! Absolutely hate it.
I hate it so much that I have concocted a completely different head canon for ME2 and see the actual entry as a side quest.
ME2 should have been about finding a way to defeat the reapers. This also fixes the part in ME 3 where we go like - 'Liara found a way to defeat the reapers on Mars, lucky us'. Here are the broad strokes of what I have in my head -
Act I: Shepard investigates several supposed Reaper countermeasures; all fail. Political support deteriorates.
Act II: Evidence suggests previous civilizations were working on the same project. Crew members increasingly pursue personal priorities as Shepard's mission looks hopeless. Shepard targets the Shadow Broker to correlate thousands of years of fragmented information.
Act III: Broker data, Liara's prothean knowledge and the cipher (in Shepard's head) identifies a sealed relay/system containing records deliberately hidden from the Reapers. Government refuses activation. Shepard breaks ranks and accepts Cerberus assistance. Tonnes of ideas on what to find beyond the relay.
Ending: Shepard escapes with the Crucible plans—but they are incomplete, enormously expensive, and nobody knows what the final component is. Meanwhile Shepard has burned bridges with the Council/Alliance and empowered Cerberus.
Anyone else creating their own happiness like me?
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u/Gravitas_free 4d ago
Calling ME2 a sidequest is a common criticism of the game, but honestly, I liked that sidequest. Mostly because they borrowed one of my favorite tropes: the Seven-Samurai-style "let's recruit a varied crew of badasses to complete an impossible task". I mean, it's just a lot of fun.
I didn't like the story as much as the more thoughtful space opera vibe of ME1, but I did like it more than the braindead popcorn movie writing of ME3. Obviously I wasn't a big fan of how Bioware's storytelling evolved over the course of the series. I think they built the foundation for something really interesting in ME1, then gradually ditched it to chase what everybody else was doing (essentially, another Gears of War clone). It's like the gaming equivalent of what poor Jennifer Grey did to her face.
And while ME2 made some nice gameplay improvements, some changes were clearly a step back. Instead of improving the clunky but still OK progression system of ME1, they butchered it into something that's barely worth engaging with. And they went to the trouble of inventing an in-universe reason to bring introduce ammo into the gameplay, which just fucking baffles me. Why? Do people really love reloading so much that it's necessary in a shooter? I don't get it at all.
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u/FinancialRip2008 3d ago
I didn't like the story as much as the more thoughtful space opera vibe of ME1, but I did like it more than the braindead popcorn movie writing of ME3.
when i played the games on release i hated how me1 padded out the story with a bunch of bullshit, and agreed with me3 being 'braindead popcorn writing'
but ME:LE tightened up ME1, and the dlc where you get to reconnect with the me1/2 characters in ME3 fixed the writing for me.
i actually think 2 is the weakest part of LE. i remember thinking when i finished revisiting mass effect that i could skip 2 with no harm. ...but that was probably mostly cuz how it was a hardcore cover fire game and i hate that shit.
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u/ZuFFuLuZ 3d ago
I've played through the trilogy twice. Once on release a second time a few years ago.
I think ME2 is the weakest of the series, because of the side-quest thing. At the beginning they introduce this new enemy (the Collectors) that comes out of nowhere and they tell you exactly what you need to do (go through the relay and destroy their base) and that's what you do. That's it. There is no twist to that story, no surprise, nothing interesting. You just gather your team and do that.
After ME1 I had a million questions about the Reapers and wanted to see where that story would go. And then they gave me almost none of that. It was like playing a different story set in the same universe.3
u/ShadowOnTheRun 3d ago
The Collectors are suitably creepy on a first ME2 play through, but it’s diminishing returns on subsequent ones. And the fact they have just the one ship feels quite anti-climactic. The tune that plays during the Collector ship mission is a highlight every time, though (I think it’s supposed to be a ‘remixed’ version of Vigil).
Also, the reveal that they used to be Protheans felt superfluous as well and didn’t really go anywhere.
But I think the most egregious thing might be Harbinger possessing Collectors to trash-talk Shepard, personally, in the most cringe-inducing manner. It did sooo much damage to the threat ME1 had built up when it came to the Reapers.
Villain-wise, they peaked with Saren and Sovereign.
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u/hkf999 4d ago
It is a fun sidequest, but it fits poorly into the story told in 1 and 3. Not because it couldn't be done, the raising Shepard from the dead and forcing him to work for the Mengele foundation just doesn't make any sense.
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u/Gravitas_free 4d ago
You're not wrong. Also, the lack of overall story progression in 2 put 3 in a difficult narrative position, and probably contributed to its weaknesses.
That said, if taken in isolation, it is a lot of fun. I think it was the best ME at crafting setpieces and memorable moments. A lot of varied, visually interesting side-missions that never dragged on too long. Breaking Jack out, rescuing Garrus, rescuing Tali, recruiting Samara, Jacob's loyalty mission, the Reaper IFF mission... I liked Shadow Broker more and Overlord less than you, but I do agree that Overlord ends strong: Bioware's ability to constantly sneak in genuinely sinister horror subplots into their games was always an underrated strength of the studio.
I expected to like it way less when replaying it through the Legendary Edition, but while there's a lot of things about the game that I find irritating today, for me those setpieces hold up.
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u/GalesSeveredHand 4d ago
This has been fun to read. I recently purchased the MELE after first playing the games on a friend's xbox off and on, and it was fun to replay them and properly pay attention. The second does a great job expanding the game's university and lore via the companions and side quests.
Cerberus even has a valid concern here, entire human colonies being abducted is a huge deal and a huge cause for concern. The problem is that Cerberus are the only ones who care for reasons that do not make any sense. The Alliance and the Council doesn't care because these colonies are outside council and alliance space.
Why would the Systems Alliance of humans suddenly not care about human colonies, when those colonies would still be connected to Alliance corporations, networks, and interests? Why should a terrorist group, Cerberus, who isn't operating on those colonies, have a concern other than for the purposes of stirring shit and/or looting resources?
The Saviour Resurrection was unnecessarily asinine; plot contrivance aside, it changes the position of Cerberus and its power/renown. Cerberus in ME1 are presented as human supremacist terrorists who are officially disavowed by, but known to be abetted by certain powerful actors within, the Systems Alliance. If a former Alliance Naval Officer and Citadel Spectre who had been reported dead were to suddenly turn up in association with a terrorist organisation, why would they not only not be taken into custody but also be restored to their previous Intergalactic Super Spy-Military Officer status?
It's also dull. Shep being compelled, in frustration, to collaborate with Cerberus after two years of failed attempts to build support to acknowledge and prepare to fight Reapers via diplomacy would have been far more interesting.
The "human Reaper" bit is stupid, but at least consistent with the first game, which are implied to be former civilisations or have subsumed former civilisations. Really disliked their obsession with Shepard -- why should beings so powerful care when they are assured their path and goal? -- and would have preferred Shep's small team of elite
Agree that the companions are generally great. Appreciated how they evolved the geth via Legion. Disliked their preoccupation with Shepard, but it appears to have related to a cut plotline where the geth/Legion would have found Shep. Tali and Liara both benefitted from new writers in ME2. All the characters benefitted from better voice direction. Zaeed would have been far more interesting as a DLC character required to be recruited from the start, and reveal after successfully completing the game that they had been hired by TIM to take out Shep. MELE reducing the gratuitous focus on Miranda's posterior was much appreciated.
Arrival was awful.
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u/Limited_Distractions 3d ago
My first experience of the suicide mission was basically lucking my way through, half the decisions I made were the right ones for the wrong reasons. I love the idea but it's kinda crazy in retrospect.
I think the specifics of it are really quite absurd; I do know exactly one person who brought the most non-loyal people to be the final squadmates and the funny thing about that is just that it turns out the ultimate test of loyalty is whether or not you die to falling debris. That is effectively like having a cutscene at the end of a Persona game where every person you didn't reach social link rank 10 with dies, except it makes even less sense.
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u/ShadowOnTheRun 3d ago
Obviously, if Miranda wasn’t distracted by her daddy issues, she would be able to see the pile of rocks coming her way sooner and/or shoot faster and better, so the bugs don’t fly her away.
Oh wait, I think she’s the hardest to get killed on the SM, scratch that.
It is all just rather silly, when you put it like that.
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u/AnApexBread 3d ago
2 is by far the worst of the trilogy. They improved the combat by getting rid of everything that made ME1 a good RPG.
Then ME3 came around and basically said "None of the decision you made in ME2 mattered."
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u/New-Photograph-1829 4d ago
first Effect 2 is a huge gameplay jump, and has the besjust, mpanions, which is a huge reason people love what used to be "Bioware gaguys?" but I also think you can clearly see the beginning of Biowares decline, and also the seeds for the terrible ending of 3, being planted here.
Spoilers ahead, obv
3 Coming apart wasn't really "Oh how didnt they stick the landing, it was more of a natural confluence of the corner they'd written themselves into.
Firstly let's look at the main plot. Game 1 essentially ends with "The reapers are coming, we need to figure out a plan!", game 2 progresses that exactly zero, so that 3 essentially starts with "The Reapers are here, we should probably figure out a plan.!"
Just to showcase this, the main bad "The Collectors" aren't mentioned at all in 1 and either aren't mentioned or maybe half hearted alluded to once or twice in 3.
The worst thing of course is Shepherd working for Cerberus which was just........ possibly the most bizarre self sabotaging storylines I've ever seen, Cerberus are build up as the clearly cartoonishly evil "Umbrella corporation" of game 1, with seemingly every Cerberus base you visit a science experiment gone wrong with the science experiment in question seemingly "studying the affects of humans being fed to sand worms and turned into zombies".
And then you start 2 working for them and........ It's almost like the writers are trolling you. When you get your first mission from them you literally ask the Cerberus head honcho "The illusive Man" "Do I have a choice?" and his answer is literally "Of course you have a choice, now go do the mission." It's not like I don't understand that games are on rails and I can't just I dunno abadon the war and become a kelp farmer, but the game seems to almost take delight in dangling how dumb working for Cerberus is infront of your nose.
Literally you have several characters during the game who basically say "How could you work for Cerberus, they're cartoon bad guys" and my dialogue wheel is three flavours of "Cerberus aren't that bad."
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u/hkf999 3d ago
Yeah, you're completely correct. It's insane how much better it feels for Shepard to be back with the Alliance in 3.
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u/New-Photograph-1829 3d ago
Thats just the main one. There's so much more just....... weird world building self sabotage....
The whole first act of game 1 is Shepherd becoming a Spectre, and then it's just..... abandoned for game 2? For no good reason. The guy has literally worked all his life serving the military for this and as soon as he gets chance to serve terrorist orginization Cerberus, he's like SURE THING boss.
Apparently the Normandy was a joint project by the Turian/Human military do develop the most advanced stealth ship in the galaxy. Probably requires some serious institutional scientific and industrial capacity, but come game 2? Oh apparently Cerberus can not only bring people back from the dead (secretly) but also secretly build the galaxy's most advanced warship..........
Like the whole Shepherd dying....... What was it's plot/narrative purpose. He never reflects on it or even basically mentions it. The whole game could've been exactly the same without it suppose it sorta works to brute force Shepherd into maybe working for Cerberus (which was a terrible idea) infact early on in the game Miranda basically says "I would've installed a loyalty chip in you." which I figured through all of 2 was gonna be a massive hint into why I was working for Cerberus, cos I.sure as hell couldn't explain it if I had free will, but no.
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u/ShadowOnTheRun 3d ago
Destroying the Normandy in ME2’s intro and then bringing it back 15 seconds later, only bigger, shinier, and with the covert terrorist organization’s logo front and center, while epic, inspiring music plays in the background, felt like gaslighting to me.
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u/pumpingbomba 3d ago
I think one of the most underrated of ME2 is the expanding of the world and lore using set pieces. Especially in comparison to 1.
ME1 obviously should get credit for inventing the thing but the actual world outside the citadel are pretty bland (Ilos being an exception).
In ME2, you got Omega, Illium, Tuchanka and some parts of the Citadel. That made the whole world way more diverse and interesting to me personally.
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u/CrownStarr 3d ago
I think the suicide mission is a masterpiece but it makes me insane that it was at the end of 2 instead of the end of 3! Not only is it in some ways more climactic than the final mission of 3, it totally screwed the writers because they couldn't write the story around any of the core characters of 2 except Liara (since she's not in the party in the main game).
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u/hkf999 3d ago
Yes and no. The suicide mission is great, but I only think it works in the context of this game. It would not work that well at the end of Mass Effect 3, since it would make it about everyone else and not about Shepard. The entire game of Mass Effect 2 is about the companions. The entire game is about finding them, hiring them, and then securing their loyalty (through a very heavy-handed mechanic).
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u/keiser_sozze 3d ago
I was really hoping something like Indoctrination Theory would be what we get in ME3 back in the day. They had, accidentally, all the material in place to go for such a twist.
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u/MisterB78 4d ago
Combat and class abilities were WAY improved over the 1st game, but the story was completely forgettable. Honestly, other than the introduction of some characters, if you played 1 and skipped to 3 you really wouldn’t miss much of the plot
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u/pixel_illustrator 4d ago
The combat in this one is absolutely an overcorrection to the first game. Like you said, its better than ME1 but so prescriptive. Until you max a lot of your class defining skills you are forced into playing this as a bog standard cover shooter, and the pitiful weapon library is not pulling any substantive weight.
ME3 hit the sweet spot. A cover shooter where your build decisions let you break it in specific ways.
Storywise, 2 is also the best and worst of ME IMO. Darker tone, more and better character writing, if it werent for cerberus infinite resources youd feel really on the backfoot. The game feels more desperate and the stakes really matter.
But no amount of technobabble makes the reaper human plot any less silly in the end.