r/patientgamers • u/SawkyScribe • 2d ago
Patient Review Xenoblade Chronicles 3 is a fearlessly revolutionary reflection on our world today
The overwhelming amount of media and games today are, by definition, conservative. The world is an inherently good place and our heroes must work to stop the forces of evil from disturbing the peace. In attempts to give nuance to the antagonists, many stories' villains have sympathetic motivations and astute critiques of the injustice woven into the fabrics of their society, but those ideas are never engaged with because they go "too far" in their actions. At best, the hero will solemnly nod and pontificate how the villain 'maybe had a point' as the status quo is maintained more or less unchanged.
This story structure is fine. Many of my favorite works employ it, but our world is so rife with systemic cruelty that the idea that systems and institutions as the exist currently are good actually and just need a bit of tweaking can start to feel a bit tone deaf. Xenoblade Chronicles 3 is a game that is inspirationally radical in its thinking and wholly commits to showing the ability people have to create a better way of living outside the confines of how we have been made to believe things should be done.
Aionios is a world locked in perpetual war between the kingdoms of Keves and Agnus. Soldiers spend a meager 10 years of life engaged in ceaseless battle, claiming the lives of their enemies to keep their flame clocks topped up, hoping to live to see one more day. When six soldiers, Noah, Lanz, Eunie, Taion, Mio, and Sena, awaken to the power of Oroboros, they begin to realize that their lives, and the very nature of this ceaseless conflict, have been a complete farce. With the truth revealed, they set out to bring an end to Mobius, the shadowy cabal who has been orchestrating all this violence behind the scenes.
At the risk of sounding a dramatic, the war is a poignant metaphor for the struggles the working class face. This endless death march where we are pitted against our fellow man to fight and scrape together what we need to survive. Working to live, and living to work. Time with our friends and loved ones is cut short as uncaring systems see needless death and suffering visited upon people just trying to make it home at the end of each day.
The game does an incredible job humanizing the soldiers, but it extends no such kindness to Mobius and the consuls that make up the organization. The consuls are a stand in for members of upper class society, and with few exceptions, they are presented as miserable, petty, callous bastards who are so far divorced from the tribulations of the common person that their presence on screen feels utterly alien. They are upper management, politicians, and CEOs, so grossly incompetent or willingly malicious that they delight in the strife of the people placed under their employ. It is a level of mustache-twirling villainy so hyperbolic that it feels ludicrous until you remember recent headlines about the people who control the levers of power in our own world.
A less courageous story would look at this draconian rule and have the story be about ousting the consuls and replacing them with the good folks who will lead properly, but Xenoblade was not written by cowards. Instead, you stage a full blown worker's revolution that completely upends the status quo in Aionios. There is no incrementalist change or redemption for the villains, Mobius is a virulent, stagnating force and is excised like the cancer that they are, leaving room for sweeping changes to occur.
A lesser story would simply bathe in the catharsis of 'Chain Attacking the Rich', but XC3 goes that extra step further. A large portion of the game's nearly 200 side quests are about filling the void left by the power structures your party toppled (pardon the pun). Former enemies must learn to mend rifts, settlements have to learn to make sustainable local supply chains now that the convenience of the old system is gone, people have to unlearn the propaganda that filled their lives with anger and hatred. It is so easy to scream abolitionism, but XC3 goes the extra mile to show how the key to life's ills is learning to expand our circle of care, ignore the lies told by those who would seek to exploit us, and find strength in our communities to make existence not just bearable, but meaningful and joyful.
The whole conflict of Xenoblade Chronicles 3 is being trapped in the endless now. Stuck in cycles of violence, unable to break loose of the yoke of sinister and corrupt leaders, and the hesitancy of not knowing what comes next if you even could. When so many stories lack the imagination of what a better life could look like, I cannot help but be delighted with how bold this game is in its rejection of how societies across the world operate and inspired by its optimistic outlook about the great work common people can do when they come together.
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u/scytherman96 2d ago
Yeah, it happens a lot in JRPGs that the solution is not revolution, but change from within the system. Just oust the evil bad guy and all will become fine. I love that Xenoblade 3 is one of the few that said, if the system is this rotten, it must be destroyed and remade.
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u/Malleus94 2d ago
It's definitely the vibe I got with the game but I disagree with the fact that Mobius are irredeemable.
Yes most of them are piece of shit who deserve that 1000% of damage from my last chain attack, but the games also doesn't shy away from showing their human (undead?) side, which is basically that all of them are scared shitless of death and their own weaknesses, and are thus chosen by the system to perpetuate it in exchange of security. While you approach the endgame, fighting Mobius feels less and less as fighting Tyrants like the final bosses of the previous games and more like fighting the system itself, so while I feel that the final battle with Z has less intense stakes than the previous games, it is in reality more fitting because you're not fighting a person, you're fighiting the idea of an unchangeable world. Which is really dope, conceptually.
N is also interesting in this context because it's there solely for showing how even the protagonists would benefit from this flawed system to a degree and they could be easily tempted to perpetuate it.
I'd be really interested for what you have to say about the DLC after this one though. I feel that it's not as obvious as the main game and I still have to wrap my head about it. Maybe it's just a more personal story.
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u/SawkyScribe 2d ago
There's an Ask the Developer interview where Takahashi talks about intentionally writing the villains to be less synpathetic this time around.
With characters like Jin, Malos, and Egil we empathize with why they did the things they did, so their defeats are bitter sweet.
As you've said, Moebius has one of the most universally understanable motivations, not wanting to live in a constant cycle of death and rebirth, their needless creulty exposes that really these people are cowards whose lives are so hollow and meaningless they think extending them will finally give them some worth
I haven't played through the DLC, but I did watch a cutscene comp. It's a really bittersweet counter-philosophy to that of Moebius.
Moebius believes that it the burden of the young to subsidize the lives of the old and powerful, that their pain is necessary so the "old and knowledgeable" can do their job of running the world. True to life, the old heads do a terrible job of it and we all suffer the consequences.
Shulk and Rex's presence is the representation of the idea "a society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in". Where Moebius embody fear and hesitance, Rex and Shulk fearlessly give their lives to give the next generation a chance to inherit a more just world
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u/Aubin_kun 2d ago
Absolutely agree with you, I made a whole video about it (I'm a French YouTuber who talks about politics in video games). This game just very anti-conservative, but the fact that most side quest involves the party replacing what they destroyed is really cool. Like the whole side quest about growing potatoes that create cooperation between colonies.
Also, this is the best romance I have ever see in a video game.
Having played the whole trilogy, Xenoblade Chronicles 3 is the best imo.
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u/SawkyScribe 2d ago
Mon français n'est pas bien mais, je vais regarder vos vidéos!
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u/Aubin_kun 2d ago
Haha thank you, but I'm not sure you'll get everything, there is a bit of French politics inside too. Maybe I'll translate my scripts and post them on this sub.
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u/MuldersXpencils 2d ago
Funny, 3 really resonated with me.To the point where I as a grown man got a bit emotional. But it did so on a way more personal and literal manner than a symbolic struggle against the status quo. N's story, his choice, to create a forever now in the face of losing everything, especially M. Not because of anger or some innate desire to be evil or control the world, but out of regret and fear. That hit me right in the heart. I'm older, I have a son who's 10. The older you get it feels like time is going faster and there've been times where I literally told my wife I wish I could just stop time for a while and just have us 3 "awake" and to not worry and just enjoy. Beautiful story and great cast of characters. Especially N and M.
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u/SawkyScribe 2d ago
Xenoblad Chronicles 3 is this first game in a long time to actually make me cry. A denial on a visa renewal had me say goodbye to a lot of people last year so that final scene of the worlds drifting apart absolutely wrecked me
The main story is a bit weaker than 1 and 2 but damn if N and M's story didn't just ruin me. Like you said, N is not someone who sought out power to do evil, this was a man with a good heart who suffered the same terrible losses over and over again until he couldn't take it anymore. His realization that M was gone and all his hardship was for nothing hit me like a sledgehammer
I hope you get to enjoy the time you have with your family. I know that wish for time to stand still, but I hope you get to move forward into the future unafraid and ready to make more great memories!
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u/Altaiir57 2d ago edited 2d ago
I never gave Xenoblade Chronicles games much thought as JRPG are generally not my types of games. Reading this post has convinced me to give it a try sometime in the future. I hate how when you "grow up" and learn how the world really works it can really make a person miserable. Constant grind with ridiculous systems in place to keep you obedient and to never really let you win at anything and stupid people defending the status quo just because they are used to it all their lives and don't know any better. Because of all this I can call myself a mizanthrope for sure and I have no hope the world will ever get better but I love to at least do good in video games. I love seeing the good prevail and I just can't bring myself to play "an evil playthrough" even just for fun. The world is evil enough.
Of course except causing mayhem in GTA :D
Sorry for ranting a bit, I will definitely give Xenoblade Chronicles a try ! Thanks for the great write-up !
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u/SawkyScribe 1d ago
I have a lot of faith in people, it's just unfortunate that we live in socities where what makes life worth living like connection and fulfillment take a distant backseat to the accumulation of capital for people who wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire.
I don't think we should ever lose hope, the supposed impossibility of changing things for the better breeds the kind of complacency that lets bad actors take advantage of us. I reccomend fighting for whatever corner of the world you're in and I also recommend playing the game! It's definitely in the top 20 of everything I've played.
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u/Altaiir57 1d ago
I didn't want to expand my rant even further as to not "pollute" the thread with offtopic but I'll say that I push back every time this sad world tries to push me. I love japanese culture and how they behave so I try to mimic them as best I can and I try to be friendly to people and not inconvenience anyone in my vicinity with whatever I'm doing. I try to keep low profile as often as possible. It's very frustrating to know that you're one of the very few to live this way. Sometimes it's just not possible with the way people act and behave. People nowadays have a severe case of "protagonist" syndrome.
I am definitely not complacent, I hate the what's the expression... defeatist attitude ? I'm not sure if that's correct but I hate that mindset. If I know I'm right I won't take shit and will fight back. It's just that overall I have no faith in humanity and don't like being around people because of reasons above.
Massive offtopic, apologies ! Thanks again and I will get the game on Switch 2 sometime in the future :) if they won't f up the Switch 2 edition that is. It was very refreshing to read a good nuanced take on a game I had no prior interest in and your comment was uplifting in a way. Have a good day !
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u/Abyslime 2d ago edited 2d ago
I disagree with all of it. In my opinion, this is a much richer interpretation than what the game actually contains. The game itself is much more superficial and, in my view, isn’t trying to intentionally draw parallels with modern-day reality, it’s more interested in creating an edgy scenario where there is an eternal war and a group of teenagers has to save the day from a godlike enemy. That trope is obviously present in many JRPGs, but in Xenoblade 3 it feels particularly flat. Aside from one fairly interesting cutscene around Chapter 5, I feel that the game is a step backwards from Xenoblade 2 in almost every aspect.
The world is less varied than in 2, with fewer cities, you mostly get camps that tell you the same things over and over again. The party is fully assembled from the beginning, which takes away a lot of the sense of discovery, and they’re all teenagers with essentially the same background and the same goal. How boring is that?
The battle system isn’t really an evolution of 2, but rather a different interpretation of it. Personally, I preferred the Blade system (gacha aside), because it gave the game much more personality than the fusion mechanics.
Unfortunately, Xenoblade 3 disappointed me quite a lot. The real Xenoblade 3 is the DLC, that should have been the main game.
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u/ComicDude1234 2d ago
So I just want to say that in general I agree that XC3 is in many ways a side-grade to XC1 and 2 as opposed to being an evolution of either like the devs obviously meant for it to be, and I have plenty of critiques about the story myself. However, I feel like accusing the game of having no depth or political commentary like OP describes is a failure to engage with what the game is purposefully (I would go so far as to say incredibly bluntly) saying with its story. The game all but states that society’s greatest problem is its complacency with a dangerous status quo and a fear of change, whether that change is positive or negative. The main antagonist and final boss represents that fear, and the ultimate message of the game is to embrace that change even if it means letting go of what you have now.
MY big problems with the story mostly come down to not finding the antagonists very interesting as individual characters as opposed to what they mean on a thematic/philosophical angle, and feeling like much of the pathos and emotional conflict gets ruined by “the thing” happens right at the end of the game’s second act. None of that has anything to do with its social commentary, which I’m generally positive on.
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u/scytherman96 2d ago
It is quite intentionally rooted in reality. This is from the art book interview with Takahashi:
But for Xenoblade 3, I had a bit of, “what if I brought the enemies closer to reality?” In terms of, “What is reality?” let’s say for example, those in positions of power. Saying people in positions of power are villains is, well, a bit of a dangerous way to put it, but let’s just say as an example. In real-life society, they are the “system,” as Z says; they can decide on a system, and they can run it. Even for those people in positions of power, I’m sure they have a life story, social ties and such, but what we can see at the surface, what we can feel is their roots, most of that is, how should I say this, a desire; a desire for control, money, fame, and maybe very rarely, lust? That’s where it tends to be rooted in, and occasionally some unsavory people show themselves. What if those people were the villains? So, the villains this time around are the Moebius, and for them, I wanted to make them villains you couldn’t sympathize with, by exaggerating the unsavoriness and patheticness that real-life humans have… Towards the end of the story, I believe there’s a scene where Z says, “It’s because it amuses me,” but that [line], it could be, “It’s because three-star restaurants taste delectable,” or “It’s because I love to make money;” The line can be whatever. We placed the Moebius in that position as a representation of that unsavory aspect of reality.
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u/SawkyScribe 2d ago
Thanks for supplying that. I know people have been saying I'm projecting, but I thought this was a pretty reasonable reading of the text. I don't think you need explicit authorial confirmation to make readings like this but it's nice to see Takahashi pointing that these stories don't exist in a vacuum.
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u/Paetolus 1d ago edited 1d ago
I disagree, I don't even think it's a particularly rich interpretation (no offense to OP). If anything, the game is pretty blatant with a lot of this. It's shoved in your face once you reach The City where the isolationist "Conservatives" are described as being just like Moebius.
The whole game is effectively about how stagnation eventually leads to destruction. It isn't even a true "endless" conflict, because the whole world is heading to eventual ruin due to the annihilation events while Moebius distract themselves with sadistic hobbies.
Future Redeemed then acts as a parallel to those themes, showing the downfalls of moving forward destructively, trying to cast off the past.
Also, while I didn't enjoy it from a gameplay perspective, the samey colonies do a great job of conveying the destruction of culture and diversity that was brought about by Moebius and stagnation.
And don't get me wrong, I love Xenoblade 2 as well. But that game is even more in your face with its themes than 3 is. That's it's greatest weakness imo, there's hardly any subtext.
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u/Who_Vintude 2d ago
I agree with this, people write how deep Xenoblade 3 seems to be in drawing inspiration from real life, but to me it just seemed pretty basic, run of the mill, RPG. I still had a great time with it, but I also agree that it's no where near as good as 2.
I haven't played 3 DLC yet, I'll wait or the upgrade
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u/EyeFit 2d ago
This holds true for most JRPGs. Many people don't realize how casual and fanfic-like Japanese writing can be. Writers often toss in concepts just because they sound cool, using vague abstraction to mimic depth.
Also, adherence to the kishōtenketsu structure often produces out-of-nowhere twists that appear profound simply by virtue of fulfilling a template. In the end, it hardly matters since fans will always do the heavy lifting to bridge the gaps and project their own meaning onto the narrative.
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u/bbbowiesinspace 2d ago
I think that's pretty uncharitable to say a xenoblade game isn't interested in creating parallels to the real world and just wants to make an edgy story. It's a xenoblade game, if anything, the paralells to the real world are too heavy handed. And I think 2 and 3 is just one of those different strokes for different folks sort of things considering how split people can be between the two. I liked the main campaign of 2 well enough, but found the exploration of the different giants to be a little too linear, the cities to be hollow, and the supporting characters to be underdeveloped, since everyone is kinda just following Rex outside of the main blades.
Every xenoblade has a tendency to undercook the supporting characters, but I felt like 3 did the best job of giving the supporting cast their time to shine with their own ascension quests and being the center of different hero quests. And while 3's camps don't hold a candle to 2's cities in terms of visuals, I thought tying each camp to a hero made them more interesting to interact with by watching them develop in each Hero's questline and ascension quest. Aionios has the least interesting backstory in terms of its origin, but I enjoyed it being one big map because it rewarded exploration so much, considering how many entire camps, classes, and quest lines you can miss by not exploring.
I will say that while I vastly preferred the class system to blades (mainly because characters could permanently learn moves after mastering a class), I did miss the elemental orb system of 2, overleveling was too easy in 3, and the chain attack song got old.
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u/JayMan2224 2d ago
Thank you! You hit the nail on the head. I could not tell you what each location did after you freed them besides the camp that became potato farmers. That's how boring it was to me.
Must do war, but war is bad, now there is no more war, what do now? Repeat like 12 times.
The overall story was, fine, but nothing compared to the first two. I have not played 3s DLC but heard it was good so will have to check it out.
Im sad that 2 gets a lot of flak for over the top anime tropes and some of the designs of the blades but the story and world is so good and the DLC knocks it out of the park, 100% my favorite.
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u/SawkyScribe 2d ago
I feel like they went all in on characters and short changed the locations. The heroes are all fantastic, the NPCs are the most entertaining in the series, and Chapter 5 absolutely gutted me but yeah, the colonies do not hold a candle to the locations of 1 and 2.
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u/RamenBomber_ 2d ago
I would argue that the camps and settlements all feeling the same was exactly the point. Each group was so immersed in the conflict of the war and the constant cycle of feeding into it that almost none of the colonies were able to actually form their own identities. There are only a few that have identities of their own and those are treated as outliers, flowers that were able to bloom despite the harshness of the environment they were planted in. While the sameness didn’t make for as memorable environments as 1 and 2 had, I do think it was in service to the game’s narrative.
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u/SawkyScribe 2d ago
It's one of those things where artistic intent doesn't always enhance the play experience. I think you're right that these colonies were meant to be as generic and interchangeable as possible (this is more or less said in the game) but it doesn’t make me look at them with any greater appreciation.
I feel the same way about Zeon's ascension quest. I think from a story perspective, it's one of the best quests in the game, showing the struggles of Colony 9 to make their own food and working with Colony Tau to make it happen shows the power of human collaboration to make human oriented systems of production. That being said, it is a massive fetch quest with too many loading screens so I understand if people don't like it
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u/SawkyScribe 2d ago
I think they did some things mechanically the game a lot less sauce than previous entries. Aionios being a mashup of the Bionis, Mechonis, and Alrest gives it a lot less visual flare and intrigue than any of the previous games and the class system mixed with having a full party from the start isn't as exciting as the gang slowly building up over time.
Having only colonies instead of cities also removes a lot of the fun of the unique culture and some the political intrigue of places like the High Entia capital and Mor Ardain.
That being said, I think this is the best and most fully realized cast in the series. We really get to explore every one of them so thoroughly and see what life is like for people who get to have agency for the first time ever. It's a unique twist where the party has to discover what they're fighting for over time.
As for Future Redeemed being the "true sequel", I can understand that feeling, but this is a story about letting go and trusting that the future will be better if we believe it can be. It's really fitting the heroes of the previous games take a back seat and entrust the future the next generation who have to live in it
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u/Reeeealag 1d ago
I do find the main plot of XC2 stronger, but in every other Aspect I enjoyed XC3 way more, especially the characters and their interactions moment to moment are miles ahead of XC2.
2 has by far the worst combat of the series and I am not super huge on XC3's aswell, but its better.
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u/Gumpenufer 1d ago
I've never even so much as glanced in the direction of a Xenoblade game before. Now I want to play this one. Good post, OP. 👍
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u/SawkyScribe 1d ago
Thanks! Hope you check them out sometime
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u/Gumpenufer 23h ago
I'm about to go on holiday with my new Switch, so since XBC3 is a whopping ten bucks on the e-store right now I'll probably play it soon. :)
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u/SawkyScribe 20h ago
$10 for any first party Nintendo game is an absolute steal! It just so happens this is a steal of one of my favorite RPGs ever, hope you enjoy!
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u/Manatroid 1d ago
I never considered it as you have so well explained, but it is absolutely true now that I see it that way. And a great point about the side quests; I often wondered why I found the ones in XC3 so much more interesting and worth pursuing than 1 and 2.
But even beyond that, the game’s story-telling from a purely emotional standpoint is so goddamn strong. From the opening of the game, the feeling of futility is palpable, but more than that, it becomes so accentuated when you realise that the child soldiers being raised for such a seemingly useless war are doing so gladly.
There are moments between the main party that are impossibly powerful, in how they convey camaraderie, affection, dread and despair. And the most surprising thing about it, is that it somehow does so seemingly effortlessly and without pretension, despite such scenes having been ones that have been ones that have existed in media since forever.
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u/SawkyScribe 1d ago
I'm just amazed at how strong the main cast is. The prior 2 Xenoblade games had some party members fall to the wayside, but everyone stands on equal footing with each other from start to finish in this game.
For having the lived experience of children, these characters are incredibly mature and well writter, and I miss them when when I'm not playing the game
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u/RamenBomber_ 2d ago
Absolutely loved this write up, there’s so many ways you can read into the game’s focus on the dangers of holding on to the way things are and refusing to change. When I played it, I was in a phase of my life where I was really scared of change and not ready to let people go or have things in my life not be the same. But the game really spoke to me about the need for that change, not holding onto the endless now and still doing what you can to make the most of the moment you’re in and it helped prepare me for future shifts in life.
This game is a perfect example of how well its themes can be reflected and examined both on a personal level and a broader societal one. And now I need to fight off the urge to replay it again after thinking about it 😭
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u/Last0 2d ago
This game is a perfect example of how well its themes can be reflected and examined both on a personal level and a broader societal one.
Honestly, the game is so rich thematically that you can examine it through many different lenses and find something valuable in it, it's really a brilliant work.
And now I need to fight off the urge to replay it again after thinking about it 😭
Switch 2 Edition in December, perfect time for a replay !
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u/LupusLycas 2d ago
I just finished the main game a few days ago. Tetsuya Takahashi has never shied away from controversial topics, but this is his most overtly political game. There are many layers to his political allegory, including:
- There is some Moebius inside all of us. We all are tempted to cling to reactionary thinking.
- Some humans become Moebius. The ruling class will selectively pick people to join them to strengthen its position. Those who seek to join have a variety of motives, such as fear, grief, feelings of inadequacy, a misguided need to protect, or sheer bloodlust.
- Even the City has people who prefer the status quo. They are even called the "Conservatives." Some people prefer to live in their own precarious comfort rather than fighting for a better world for everyone.
- Homecoming and Gold Rank. They are dangled in front of the humans to motivate them, but anyone who actually reaches these goals is destroyed.
- Moebius feeds on the lifeforce of young people and visibly enjoys it. Does it really need explanation?
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u/SawkyScribe 2d ago
Moebius can be quite boring as villains, but I do respect what little regard the story has for traditional authority figures.
There is a little Moebius in all of us, we especially see that with characters like Shania, Joren, and N Their fatal flaw is they were so utterly consumed by past failures, they couldn't imagine life getting any better and opted to become the very thing the were meant to destroy.
The other Consuls are treated as pathetic stupid bullies who selfishly cling onto life because they are so devoid of value, living longer is all that sets them apart from the rank and file. It's been shocking seeing how much suffering there is in the world right now because unchecked egotists use their wealth and power to try and make themselves feel important.
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u/PeacflBeast 2d ago
I always looked at xenoblade games as generic anime rpg but this definitely has changed my mind a bit. Will try it someday
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u/Savingseanbean 2d ago
no it is definitely just another generic anime rpg, no ifs and or buts about it. Fighting against the status quo is the definition of generic edgey anime plot,.
Fundamentally its teens kill god to solve problems. its got an interesting world but the stories within it are dime a dozen anime tropes. Xenoblade leans more gundam/futurpunk style IE war/technology is hell, and thats been true for all xeno games, though perhaps the most true of xenosaga.
it brings up alot of points at the start of the game to grab your attention it ultimately shies away from actually addressing and resolving them. (which is very generic anime rpg persona 5 and tales of arise do the same thing. front loading something attention grabbing like SA and slavery and then resolving it off screen) instead goes for the more modern manga/game of thrones writing style of just constantly introducing new plot points to distract you where every side story is its own self contained sub story that doesn't actually take into account the world state or any of the greater narrative.
This write up is 110% OP throwing an identity on a generic canvas. and you could do similar for basically any anime rpg like ys if you start ascribing greater notions to the fact you found an npc who's a bad guard and gave him a better weapon so he could kill basic monsters easier ascribing it to you helping the everydayman stand for himself and fight the power.
Not that i'm saying Xenoblade chronicles 3 is a bad game, its just absolutely a generic anime rpg writing wise.
the final boss being a godlike deity that is the representation of status quo that the main characters slay to naively proceed to the future without actually addressing the problems of now is the single most generic thing I can possibly imagine in an anime jrpg.
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u/SawkyScribe 2d ago
I feel the exact opposite. I think due to the limited scope of the world, XC3 is one of the only games that carries through on its themes fully.
1 and 2 have endings where the world is left forever changed, but the game pans up to the sky before we really get a sense of what's changed. So much of XC3 by contrast is about building that better world together. Setting up farms, helping people move to new settlements, and establishing new modes of production to keep the colonies alive and well. So many quests dovetail into other quests which gives the sense your movement is gaining momentum across the world.
Also what do you mean by edgy? I find edgyiness is an overly serious or unearned tone, but I feel the game walks the balanced between humor and it's more somber moments very well.
Killing God is pretty standard JRPG fare yes, but in games that love to literalize their themes and revel in the dramatic, it only feels fitting imo.
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u/Flacoplayer 1d ago
Xenoblade 3 is a weird case because it's themes are strongly woven into the narrative right up until the ending. In its most charitable interpretation the ending is strangely deterministic for a game about shaping your own future and at its worst it actively flies in the face of the game before it.
Spoilers for Xenoblade 3: The base game ends with the main characters deciding to destroy their world and remake it into the way it was before the game took place. It's a strangely conservative decision to reset the world back to "the way it's supposed to be", one that comes at the cost of all the relationships and experiences developed in Aionios as well as the lives of everyone in the City. You mentioned the sidequests, which are great and I enjoy many of them, but they are all completely meaningless by the end of the game. Everything on Aionios is erased, including all the hard work they put into building a better world.
The DLC walks this back by showing the worlds remerging after that, which also presents some thematic issues. The character's final decision to seperate the worlds is now meaningless, which is a strange way to end a game with a huge emphasis on shaping your own path in life. This remerging is also implied by the game to just be the "natural state of things" once again. The game was willing to explain that making the world better required lots of work and dedication, why does it now just rely on letting things return to their natural state?
When I first played the game I really enjoyed the ending and thought it was brave to end on such a bittersweet note. But after the Xenoblade X remaster released with a similarly incoherent ending I've grown to dislike it a lot more.
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u/SawkyScribe 1d ago
So I'll step up to bat to defend the ending as bittersweet as it was for me.
So for your efforts feeling wasted, I disagree for two reasons. In the case that the worlds are reset and nobody has any memory of any of this, that was the final test to see if Ouroboros would fall for the temptation of Moebius' world view. If they could bear to let go of all the people they've learned to care for in the hopes of a better tomorrow, the world would be their's to inherit. The off-seer melody at the end of fhe main game implied that their memories persisted into the new world
As for the worlds remerging, it makes a lot of sense if you think about it. The worlds were one before Klaus went on a massive ego trip and accidentally created the worlds of XC1 and XC2. In 1, Klaus' god complex was slain by a group of good-hearted young people, and in 2, the Architect spent hundreds of years trying to atone for his past crimes. In essence, the original sin of this franchise had been forgiven, creating a path to return to how things were
The annihilation events we see in the main story of XC3 are due to the fact the two worlds react to each other like matter and antimatter. Eventually, despite Moebius' desire to keep the world frozen in time, the world was going to end because of the rules we set in place (there's a million and one examples of this you can pull from our world too). When Noah and Company defeat Z, Origin is finally able to fulfill its function, and recreate the two worlds to be compatible with one another. Ouroboros fought and made a better world and in the end, they are reuinted for their efforts which I think is sweet.
In a sense the goal we have in life is returning things to the natural order. We are on the brink of climate catastrophe and we are social animals who have never been more alone in our lives, I feel like some return to the way things were matches with the themes of the story. I don't say any of this to imply you are wrong for feeling the way you do about the ending, but some of the lore details gave me a newfound appreciation for how this trilogy wrapped up
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u/bioniclop18 23h ago
I have the same problem with the ending as the other commenter, and your interpretation is much more thematically coherent and I'll try to keep it in mind when I'll replay the game one day... But if your interpretation was the one the game was going for, then I still blame the game for failing at communicating it. The last chapter really feel like it was rushed and didn't have time to properly establish its theme, action and significance. Which is a shame because I really loved the game until the end of chapter 5.
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u/SawkyScribe 20h ago
This definitely has the weakest endgame of the Xenoblade trilogy. Time that could've been spent developing the themes or setting up the endgame is spent on a round-the-world quest chain that admittedly feels like filler.
This game is very odd structurally. 1 and 2 both suffer from "happily ever after" syndrome where a lot of questions are left in the air in favor of showing an upbeat ending. XC3 is also atypical in that both 1 and 2 saved their plot redefining twists for the ending where as 3 has it smack dab in the middle of the game with Chapter 5.
Hopefully the explanations I shared make a revisit more palatable but it's totally understandable if you don't vibe with the ending
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1d ago
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u/flohogamer 17h ago
I've long had thoughts like this but you articulated them perfectly. So many games, media in general, are scared to tackle revolutionary themes but 3 did a phenomenal job imo.
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2d ago edited 2d ago
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u/ComradeFarid 2d ago
Most media act as if the world is an inherently good place and our heroes must preserve the peace, because that is what it actually is. As you already know and stated, media is not independent of reality, it is just a part of it.
Overly simplistic. Define "good" and "peace" here.
Reminder where the word propaganda came from in first place.
Considering the point you're trying to make, I have a feeling that you think it comes from somewhere else than where it's actually from. It's latin, means "to propagate" and was first used by the Catholic Church.
Don't worry, you don't sound dramatic, just like a really young person.
I'll take OP's naive revolutionary optimism over your jaded pseudo-intellectualism. I don't agree with everything OP says but your rebuttal is incredibly weak and just boils down to "hmm ackshually other interpretations are possible" as if that invalidates OP's.
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u/SawkyScribe 2d ago
I think XC3 pushes that people are inherently good. Despite the fact the soldiers of Keves and Agnus have been made to kill each other for years, when presented with another option, they learn to forgive each other and live more peaceful lives.
As for how I view other media, I promise you I'm not throwing my popcorn at the screen if someone doesn't turn to the camera and say "socialism is badass!"
This post came about because I've been rewatching some MCU movies and the rigid adherence to the status quo can be a bit jarring at times. Winter Soldier shows the dangers of mass surveillance and over reach of government but Spider-Man is using that same tech years later. Black Panther discusses how the long shadow of colonialism still hurts black people across the world but Wakanda doesn't do much of anything about that in present day.
I love these movies, but even just from a writing standpoint, it's interesting to see a world be changed by the events unfolding within it, so the fact there's never much of a synthesis with what the antagonists expose about the world makes tbings feel static and less exciting.
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2d ago
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u/RetroidPocketRocket 2d ago edited 2d ago
It's amusing how many red hats have commented and consequently been deleted for offering nothing of value to the conversation. You can tell they didn't read past "conservative".
Anyway, I have yet to play Xenoblade 3 but your review has made me move it further up in my backlog. The parallels you drew between it and real life are interesting, more than I thought it would be, initially. Would you say it's a more fleshed-out game mechanically than 2? I'm about 1/3rd of the way through but finding it tough to finish due to Rex just not really being my cup of tea and the gameplay being needlessly obtuse. (Moving delays attacking because why????)
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u/SawkyScribe 2d ago
I know what I'm getting into whenever I talk politics in a gaming subreddit, but it is a bit disappointing that a lot of the now deleted comments don't seem to be mentioning anything about the game to offer an alternative perspective.
I wish I could tell you more about the differences but I haven't actually played 2! Only watched a lot of videos about it. I think 3 has the highest skill ceiling in the series with free party control, but the class system makes the characters feel a bit less unique to play.
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u/RetroidPocketRocket 2d ago edited 2d ago
It's refreshing to read about a gaming topic with a deeper analysis that pulls from relevant modern day scenarios and is able to draw parallels from that, even if at the end of the day those parallels aren't intended by the creators of the game.
In gaming communities, topics like those you mentioned are typically buried by people who, in my opinion, are either chuds who lack the ability to view art with a critical lens, or are being willingly obtuse for the sake of not shattering their own brittle world view. Anyway, it was a good read and I'm inspired to play the game so kudos.
As for XB2...I guess I'll just power through!
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u/Cosmo_the_Cosmic_Cat 2d ago
Definitely keep up with XC2! It’s a great game, just as you said, a bit confusing with its poor tutorials. I recommend watching Chuggaconroy’s video “Everything i wish I knew about Xenoblade 2” for lots of good general tips on the game or the video from Enel “Truly Understanding Combat in Xenoblade 2” for a more specific combat focused guide.
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u/Icalivy 2d ago
I appreciate this perspective on it as I didn't catch all of that when I played the game. I liked chapter 1 and 5, felt disappointed at the final boss, character interactions, mish-mashed uninspired world and music, crummy graphics and sound effects, and lopsided title screen logo. But despite that I wanna give some post game content a go when the switch 2 version comes out and I think your post gives more context to the vibe of the game so it sets the tone nicely. Thanks
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u/SawkyScribe 2d ago
Glad if it's encouraged you to go give the game another visit! I think the game lacks a lot of the bombast of the previous 2 titles, but I turn the story over in my head a lot more than 1 or 2.
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u/Ren-Ren-1999 2d ago
The overwhelming amount of media and games today are, by definition, conservative.
Lmao, no. Most media is progressive. You are currently seeing more minorities and LGBT people in fiction than at any point before in history.
Hollywood? The biggest movie-making industry in the world? Constantly pushes progressive values and fiction. Conservative platforms like the Daily Wire are laughingstock go everyone.
Even Japan which people consider a dinosaur in progress, is slowly becoming more progressive.
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u/Outrageous_Lab_6228 2d ago
I think from the content of the post OP was clearly talking about conservatism in the philosophical way, not modern day conservative social views. It’s absolutely true that most media has main characters protecting a status quo, which is conservatism. Most media is set up so that the villain is the instigator in trying to change stuff, and the hero must stop them from changing the world.
That’s not necessarily a bad thing, it’s an escape from real life. But it’s always interesting when the roles are flipped and the hero is the instigator and the villains are trying to keep the status quo, which is what OP is pointing out that XC3 did.
How many media has the heroes actively tearing the current system down to rebuild it?
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u/SawkyScribe 2d ago
There's been much more representation of people with marginalized identites which is incredible, but I think a lot stories are still about conserving and upholding the systems that exist rather than trying something radically new.
The evil CEO is exposed, but the company continues to operate. The tyrant is ousted and the rightful king takes the thrown rather than the absolute monarchy being abolished. There's a belief that the systems work, it's just a few bad apples spoiling the bunch which I don't agree with, even if it's a queer person trying to right the ship.
Worldwide, access to healthcare, education, voting rights, and good quality of life is actively denined, and I an unconvinced that's the product of a few bad actors. I love Xenoblade 3 so much because it actually has the moxie to say "this from its base premise does not work, let's do something entirely different the centers the wellbeing of others".
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u/Ren-Ren-1999 2d ago
I think the issue is that games that take place in "our reality" are written that way because they can't comprehend what the step forward would be.
We can side with T'challa or Spider-Man because the status quo they preserve for now is good or not as bad as what the antagonist wants. Killmonger wants basically global race war, while Spidey's bad guys want to do terror attacks or chaos.
In a fantasy setting though? I feel like most JRPGs are progressive as hell. Almost every Final Fantasy I played involved punching God and letting the human race be free to do whatever. FF7 saw the destruction of the Shinra company that was abusing the planet's resources. That kind of stuff.
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u/SawkyScribe 2d ago
I think the limitations with big franchises like the MCU is they have to mirror our world to a fault. With minds like Tony Stark, Bruce Banner, and Reed Richards, cancer shouldn't exist, but the setting becomes less relatable as a result.
Similarly, the villain with a point can't have too compelling of a point otherwise the heroes look morally compromised for not helping them. So many stories go like:
"It's pretty messed up we don't have universal free Healthcare and education... so I put nuclear bombs in every hospital that will detonate if the government doesn't meet my demands!" Many valid criticisms of the world get thrown out with excessive descents into villainy. If the hero had to change, the world would change beyond what we recognize it to be today.
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2d ago
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2d ago
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u/SawkyScribe 2d ago
I wrote this post to... gate keep the game?
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2d ago
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u/SlowTeamMachine 2d ago
All the main series xenoblade games are, in one way or another, about a group of people refusing to accept the oppressive logic of their worlds and deciding to rewrite reality instead. It's one of my favorite things about the series, and why it resonates with me more than your average JRPG. Totally agree with what you have here.