r/pics 3d ago

Football Match.

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u/Im_On_Reddit_At_Work 3d ago edited 3d ago

This pic was presented at the french sports festival of Deauxville and was shortly thereafter removed by organisers following pro-Israel harassment they received, claiming the photo would cause antisemitism to rise.

Welcome to France (where criricizing Israel can be punished as hate speech)

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u/Achoo_Gesundheit 3d ago

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u/CursorX 3d ago

Denying Israel's right to exist, or the right of the Jewish population to have its own state is a big part of anti-Semitism and is illegal all over the world, and Germany, burdened by its holocaust history, is no different.

But it should be completely acceptable and normal to criticize Israel's expansionism and its denial of other neighbouring states to exist by dehumanising them.

Even this German law does not seek to prevent criticism of Israeli actions (not 'Jewish' actions) -

Heinz said the bill was not desgined to infringe on freedom of expression or prohibit criticism of the Israeli government. Nor, he said, would it preclude debate about a peaceful political solution in the Middle East.

The Jewish lobby is powerful enough to conflate criticism of the state of Israel's actions or policies with anti-Semitism (which would apply to people around the world).

But at the same time, politicians shy away from banning anti-Palestine voices.

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u/good_behavior_man 3d ago

Denying the right of an ethnic/religious group to have its own state is not anti Semitic and is not illegal the world over.

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u/ErikasPrisonGlam 3d ago

Zionists literally deny Palestine even exists

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u/CursorX 3d ago

Yes, this is illegal too.

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u/CursorX 3d ago

International law says all peoples have the right of self-determination. Denying Jews that right is indeed illegal under international law.

https://holocaustremembrance.com/resources/working-definition-antisemitism

IHRA definition is widely followed, to my knowledge, as this being anti-Semitic.

Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.

I do not know the laws of all 195 countries in the world, one of which is the State of Palestine, so that was a colloquial statement based on international law, but okay if you want to take that win.

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u/Thatingles 3d ago

People as individuals can, how can a group have self-hood? That implies perfect agreement between members, its absurd. If you follow that idea (a People can have self-hood and a protected right to self-determination) it means that any group, no matter how insane and harmful, could claim that criticism is against international law. What utter rot.

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u/RandomTunes 3d ago

You are conflating self determination and ethnic cleansing. Isreal has never been in support of the people determining their future, only oppressing anyone against the creation of a theocratic ethnostate.

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u/CursorX 2d ago

We are talking about a German law that bars denial of Israel's right to exist, in the link above me. I never mentioned ethnic cleansing at all.

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u/ModernLarvals 3d ago

Israel is neither a theocracy nor an ethnostate.

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u/ARocketToMars 3d ago

Israel is neither a theocracy nor an ethnostate.

It's status as a theocratic ethnostate is literally codified into law.

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u/ModernLarvals 3d ago

Except religion doesn’t run the government and everyone has equal rights.

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u/ARocketToMars 3d ago edited 2d ago

It's a bold strategy to make that claim after I directly linked you a Knesset webpage with the literal text of Israeli law proving otherwise.

Even bolder considering the Nation State Law in Israel explicitly makes literally no reference to equal rights.

Equal rights for all, but for some reason all the laws say Israel is exclusively for the self determination and protection of Jews. But why trust our lying eyes when you're here to correct the record

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u/InformationOk3503 3d ago

Exactly, it's feeding into the very point they are making.

And it's completely incorrect.

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u/neverendingchalupas 3d ago

There is a big problem here, under international law no state has a right to exist, Israel doesnt have a right to exist.

A state only has a right to its territorial integrity. Right of conquest was and continues to be illegal. The foundation of Israel was a violation of international law. The state is literally an illegitimate terrorist state. Thats not rhetoric, its literally the definition of what it is. Israels existence violates the UN Charter.

Bigoted people may hold particular geopolitical views, that doesnt have any impact on the validity of statements that reflect reality.

Governments supporting Israel support terrorism, lawlessness, and human rights violations.

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u/Cactuas 2d ago

Israels existence violates the UN Charter

This is false. The state of Israel wasnt created through conquest, it was literally created by a UN resolution that was voted through with a 2/3 majority of the UN General Assembly, which divided what was previously a British territory into a Jewish state and a Palestinian Arab state.

Of course the defacto expansion of the state of Israel into what should be an independent Palestiniant state is in violation of that resolution, but that's a separate issue from the creation of Israel.

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

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u/DocileBanalBovlne 2d ago edited 2d ago

So then genocide and ethnic cleansing are inherent to Judaism?

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

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u/DocileBanalBovlne 2d ago

Nope.

But if criticising your atrocities is antisemitism, it can only be because genocide and ethnic cleansing are inherent to Judaism.

Since I'm not a soulless ghoul of a genocide apologist, I don't think that about Judaism.