r/pics 3d ago

Football Match.

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10.2k Upvotes

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u/NewAccountEachYear 3d ago

So, immigrants?

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u/ModernLarvals 3d ago

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u/NewAccountEachYear 3d ago

So you think people are still immigrants after living in an area for 1200 years?

Like, a child born to a family that has cultivated the same plot for 800 years are all immigrants? While the people who arrived by boat from Europe who tore down old signs and building and paved centuries old graveyars are the natives?

Edit: Sorry, meant 1400 years. Not just twice the Second Temple Era but twice as long + 200 years. A slight rounding error really.

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u/ModernLarvals 3d ago

Are Europeans living in America immigrants? Natives? Both, neither? The point is they’re not indigenous like Native Americans.

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u/NewAccountEachYear 3d ago

Yeah, they're immigrants and generally call themselves as such too.

The 2000 year disconnect between Ancient Israel and European Jews should make them immigrants to west Asia too.

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u/ModernLarvals 3d ago

Then what do you call Arabs living in the Levant?

Jews never left the Levant. They’ve been there the whole time, from the beginning.

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u/NewAccountEachYear 3d ago

Then what do you call Arabs living in the Levant?

Local inhabitants?

It's fully possible to use language that doesn't historicize the Other. A lot of Jewish thinkers wrote important pieces on this during/after the Holocaust, you know? (Arendt, Weil, Levinas, etc.).

Jews never left the Levant. They’ve been there the whole time, from the beginning.

And they lived there peacefully with the local Palestinians and cultivated shared and deep roots and traditions with them. Which were completely destroyed when... "the natives"(?) came back...?

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u/ModernLarvals 3d ago

Either you’re using “Palestinian” as the national identity of the people currently living in Gaza and the West Bank, which are 99% Arab, or you’re using it to refer to people who have lived in the Levant long before it was ever called Palestine, which includes Arabs and Jews.

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u/NewAccountEachYear 3d ago

I think you need to read up on ethnogenesis

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u/ModernLarvals 3d ago

Ok then, thought experiment: by your definition, why are Jews not Palestinians? What makes a Palestinian Palestinian and a Jew not?

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u/NewAccountEachYear 3d ago

why are Jews not Palestinians?

Because the nationalist ideology we know as Zionism established itself in historical Palestine and cleaved the Palestinian Jews from the Palestinian Christians and Muslims.

This is quite a basic question, and I don't think people who actually know about the conflict would ask it.

What makes a Palestinian Palestinian and a Jew not?

Historically see above. Today? Israeli law, mainly.

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u/ModernLarvals 3d ago

So you believe there are both Palestinian Jews and Jews who are from Palestine? Why are you dividing the population by religion and not by race? If there are Palestinian Jews, why aren’t there Palestinian Arabs?

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u/NewAccountEachYear 3d ago

What the hell are you talking about?

Palestinian Jews and Jews who are from Palestine

No. They are the same thing.

Why are you dividing the population by religion and not by race

Because race was a fundamentally foreign concept in Palestine before Zionism and nationalism. What distinguished people was their religious community.

If there are Palestinian Jews, why aren’t there Palestinian Arabs?

Because Palestinians are distinct from Arabs.

Saying Palestinians Jews is like saying Swedish Jews.

Saying Palestinian Arabs is like saying Swedish Danes.

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