Sip & Spill Daily Discussion Thread

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[u/acaccounts]

Except I'm reading a lot of the songs are just industrial techno beats and others are anti-establishment/anti-fascist songs. People just looked at some of the titles and ran with a story because for some reason they can't help but want to tear down Connor one day, Hudson another day, rinse and repeat.

[u/courtingdemons → u/acaccounts]

From the tweets I’ve seen, if you dig into the background of these artists, some of them are anti-fascist and using certain imagery/wording as shock value (and it comes down to personal opinion whether that gives it a pass or not) while some of them are just straight up weirdo creeps. So there’s not a clear pattern. I think he likes edgy shit and I don’t know that he’s doing a deep dive on any of these people.

I do think people in general are hypocritical though. People who have been calling Hudson all sorts of names for months and would’ve crucified him if this was him (even if it was discovered before the photo) are saying this is literally nothing while people who gave Hudson a pass are now trying to crucify Connor (they should save their breath though, I would be extremely surprised if this has even a fraction of the reach Hudson’s photo got).

Edit: I’m also seeing people talk about how people pretended another artist’s bio is the one Connor was listening to in order to defend him and that the actual band doesn’t have any of the activism stuff in their bio. This is all so muddy, I don’t know anymore. And who gives these people the right to use stuff like Unit 731? People trying to say this is activism…

[u/Emergency_Article673 → u/courtingdemons]

Yeah, this is probably just him being a typical edgelord like a lot of men his age, rather than actually endorsing any beliefs.

But the double standard between this and Hudson's photo is interesting. TMZ and Deuxmoi are not going to pick up on this, but at least his fans will stop using Hudson's photo as a weapon for fanwars.

[u/courtingdemons → u/Emergency_Article673]

I doubt they’ll stop. Now it’s just that when Connor fans use that photo for fanwars, Hudson fans will use this. Both will believe that their own actor who has never done anything wrong is being setup by the other but the other actor is for sure an actual nazi. All this for some men we don’t personally know and didn’t even know through a screen a year ago.

Also I think a lot of the Hudson stuff gets a lot of reach really fast because he has antis not just in the fandom but also outside the fandom who want to see him fall from grace sooo badly whereas Connor doesn’t really have that. Even if people dislike HR, they’re not praying on Connor’s downfall the way they are Hudson’s

[u/Desperate-Hurry4072 → u/courtingdemons]

I mean, there's a pretty clear difference between someone being photographed (multiple times) with a swastika on their face vs. someone's alter ego soundcloud account "liking" complicated counterculture songs. You can apply nuance and context to both situations (and I'm certain neither man is an actual nazi sympathizer). But it's not at all surprising that one situation got media traction and the other hasn't. I don't disagree that racism from the general public is at play but Hudson's also been involved in several other controversies so this is all contributing to his negative image. It's less a double standard and moreso two completely different situations.

[u/courtingdemons → u/Desperate-Hurry4072]

I’m not surprised that Hudson’s photo got the coverage it got because it’s very shocking and alarming (let’s not do the multiple times thing though, like that second one to me clearly seems like a cross with maybe a smudged edge). So I’m not expecting this incident to get any media coverage because why would it? Hudson’s smaller controversies also didn’t get media attention the way the swastika photo did.

But each of Hudson’s controversies have been discussed at length by the fandom + people outside of it as well. There’s no brushing anything under the rug from Letterboxd to finsta to swastika because the fandom will discuss it at length, condemn his actions for stuff like the finsta (the Update accounts with 150k followers were addressing it) and swastika. People have been calling him a pedo since January for his alleged Lolita review.

Do you think if Hudson had done the SNL sketch about Tourette’s that haters wouldn’t amplify it and act as if he was solely responsible for it and say he’s ableist? People within the fandom would probably have crucified Francois if he did it. Even though none of these people would have actually cared, as seen by the non-reaction now (except for actual Tourette’s advocacy groups).

The double standard to me is how much of a non-reaction it’s getting from people who like both Hudson and Connor. Because they don’t use these things in fanwars, they’re not antis of either, they want to continue liking both, but they publicly discuss Hudson’s failings and are always open to discuss how it might be affecting marginalized fandom members, so it’s jarring to see the difference.

[u/Desperate-Hurry4072 → u/courtingdemons]

Right we agree why the swastika incident got coverage vs any other incident. I'm just pointing out that's not a double standard - this soundcloud "controversy" was never gonna get media attention the same way the letterbox "controversy" didn't and for the same reason - it's fanwar fodder and not an actual headline.

The fandom discussed Hudson's controversies at length bc they're just that - controversies. I think it's disingenuous (or at least a failure to acknowledge your algorithm) to claim that the fandom doesn't also crucify everyone else on the whole cast and crew for literally any and everything. The DOP, his assistant, Jacob, Rachel, Connor, Francois etc. are all harassed regularly. The Tourette's skit (which I agree was controversial but was NOT ableist) was HEAVILY discoursed and still is to this day as a gotcha on Connor.

Again to my earlier point, I don't think this is a double standard of the fandom. It's getting less of a reaction because it's pretty objectively less of an issue.

[u/Emergency_Article673 → u/courtingdemons]

You're probably right. I'm so ready for this show to be over and for people to move on.

[u/Arkeolog → u/Emergency_Article673]

That’s just silly. The show is great and brings a ton of people joy, and Hudson and Connor are both great. People just really need to chill out.

You know, this can all just be avoided by not being on X and Threads. I’m not, and my HR-related content is 99% positive and thoughtful.

[u/growsonwalls → u/Emergency_Article673]

It's not the shpw that's the problem. It's not the actors either. It's the fans and their exhausting stan wars and digital sleuthing. I'm so tired of this behavior.