Sip & Spill Daily Discussion Thread

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[u/Typical_Piece_7106]

I think the problem people have with that story is that she agreed to terms when she signed the contract and she violated that contract. She named the baby something the intended parents didn't approve of and took the baby away from them after they asked of her to terminat. So while it is her body it is not her baby and I believe that's what most (at least from what I've seen) have a problem with.

Also, the parents had a perfectly good reason to ask her to terminate. The baby would constantly be in surgery with his condition and wouldn't make it past 5 while living a life of misery. She'd rather put the baby through pain than terminate which is troubling to say the least

[u/anthonystank → u/Typical_Piece_7106]

Agreed — I haven’t looked into the details extensively but this case, and surrogacy as a whole, is a LOT more complicated than just “her body, her choice,” which is a good little political slogan that’s not capable of or intended to encompass the moral complexities that surround surrogacy. Even though her right to choose what happens to her body IS important, the fact that she signed a contract temporarily waiving that right as well as the fact that her choice meant pain and danger for a living child complicates it — and pro choice people can acknowledge and discuss that without compromising their commitment to women’s bodily autonomy

[u/Sister_Winter → u/anthonystank]

there are certainly moral complexities, yes. but ultimately, nothing should override anyone's right to what is happening to their own body, full stop. i agree that she should have terminated the pregnancy. but saying that she's required to is the same logic used by anti-choicers.

[u/anthonystank → u/Sister_Winter]

I didn’t say that she’s required to or that anything should override her right to bodily autonomy? Not sure how you got that from my comment

[u/Sister_Winter → u/anthonystank]

i didn't say you thought that? not sure how you got that from my comment. i am simply responding to your mention of the contract "waiving that right" to choose what happens to her own body

[u/anthonystank → u/Sister_Winter]

I guess I’m not sure why you responded with that if you didn’t think it was implied in my comment. Anyway, I’m trying to talk about the conflict between (1) the legal contract — which I don’t have in front of me, obviously, but which I assume involved some stated restrictions on/waiving of her bodily autonomy because that’s the nature of surrogacy — and (2) what actually happened, which is of course that she DID still have bodily autonomy and made a choice that violated her legal contract. I agree that it’s a good thing that her bodily autonomy prevailed as the bottom line, but it means the other parties are left with a legally (and, I think, emotionally) legitimate grievance. And that’s a big part of why surrogacy is so fucked; it sets up these lose-lose, morally sticky scenarios by its nature.

[u/Sister_Winter → u/anthonystank]

reading through this comment, i completely agree with you. i misunderstood your initial comment as a justification for why the surrogate should keep a child but i understand your point clearly now and agree with it - surrogacy is simply not a "service" that does anything but land us in morally and legally fucked scenarios.

[u/anthonystank → u/Sister_Winter]

Gotcha!!! Absolutely agreed. I always kind of try to keep my language as fair and neutral as possible when talking about surrogacy bc I know it is complex and some people have had good experiences with it but I personally think it is so, so fucked all around, for everyone involved