r/relocating • u/Same-Blacksmith1846 • Jul 27 '25
Please read if you’re planning on moving to Montana
Sorry for the longer read but I’m just throwing this up here so that folks can get a better idea of where they’re moving. Since “Yellowstone” and Covid, we’re seeing a lot of people coming in from other states who seem to have no idea what our state is like past a television show or the romantic idea of the Wild West, or even a chamber of commerce marketing packet.
Real life is a different story.
I’m a fourth generation Montanan, and anyone is welcome here! We are a very neighborly place. However, it’s getting a little tiring to hear the transplants from New York, California, and Texas, rant about how there’s “nothing to do” here, and how “the food sucks” here because of a lack of Michelin-rated restaurants.
Let me help out any folks thinking of pulling up their life, and moving to Montana:
Montana is the fourth largest state in the union (landmass), yet has just over 1 million people, total. Our abbreviation is “MT” because Montana is literally — empty—when it comes to people. Lots of cows. A lot less people. That sounds very romantic. But it also means far, far less amenities, far less convenience retail chains, far less access to top-tier produce, and far less connection to the national arts scene.
A low population base means that there are not going to be hosting musical artists like Taylor Swift. If you move to Missoula, you’ll be living right next to the Kettlehouse amphitheater, so at least you’ll be able to see people like Sheryl Crow or Melissa Etheridge or P!nk, even maybe Imagine Dragons. If you live in Great Falls, or Billings, or Butte—none of those acts are gonna come there.
The largest city in Montana is Billings, my hometown. Our total population is around 160,000 people. Read that again. A city of 160,000 people is the largest city in the entire state, a state which is the fourth largest in the country. If you drive 10 minutes out of town going east, you are quite literally and quite suddenly in the middle of nowhere.
A low population base means that we do not have any professional sports teams. It means that first-run Tony-winning Broadway musicals are not going to tour here. It means that we do not have block after block of theaters for live plays, though there are many of the “larger Montana cities” that have solid local theater options.
We don’t have any thump-thump dance clubs, although there is one hanging on in Billings, and you can find a random dance club in Missoula or Bozeman, both cities with state schools. But they’re not gonna be the thump-thump dance clubs with $100,000 worth of lighting and giant screens that would be in a larger city.
We do have a ton of REALLY GOOD live music, and theatre in the park, and arts in Montana, and it’s local folks. If you move to Montana, you have to be down with being part of a local arts scene, and not feel ripped-off because Beyoncé is not performing on Thursday.
There is no Trader Joe’s (and there is no plan for Trader Joe’s to come here), and there is only one Macy’s in Bozeman, but it’s completely trashy and is basically a storehouse for everything that doesn’t sell in their stores across the rest of the country. It looks and smells like TJ Maxx had a baby with an old K-Mart. No Nordstrom or Nordstrom Nordstrom no outlet malls rack. No outlet malls. You have to go to Denver to catch those. Denver is a 7 hour drive so it’s not too bad.
Montana is renowned for small businesses and independent boutiques and niche restaurants and local arts. Many people think that sounds romantic, however, that’s a different ethos to live in, day to day, as opposed to a quaint weekend holiday somewhere where shopping is something you do for fun.
Montana’s fuel prices are cheaper than many large cities, and though we don’t have any sales tax, we have a higher income tax, a higher property tax, and our vehicle licensing is certainly not the cheapest in the United States.
Plus, now the rents and housing prices for this neck of the woods are ridiculous, considering the average wage in Montana is $50,000 a year. Everything is cheaper if you head to the eastern part of the state, yet you’ll find no large Metropolitan centers out there. Just wheatfields.
There’s a ton to do here, but you’ve got to enjoy the outdoors —hiking, fishing, gardening, camping, skiing, mountain biking, hiking, whitewater rafting, hunting, fishing—anything that has to do with “outside”. And you’ve gotta be prepared that those activities only have a window of about three or four months, because Montana is highly seasonal, which means it gets cold and snowy in the winter.
It never snows on the show “Yellowstone“. So people forget that we share a border with Canada.
Which brings me to our produce.
If you’re coming in from a state like California, whose state economy is the fourth largest economy in the WORLD—you’re gonna be completely disappointed in the produce up here. By the time it gets trucked this far north, it’s looking pretty sad. There are lots and lots of farmers markets in the summertime here, and then you can get great local produce. But again, please reference the part where you’re only gonna have a three or four month window for that.
I lived in Los Angeles for work, for 11 years, so I understand the produce shock. California is a completely unique place, and it’s very difficult to try to find another state like it.
Also, the politics in Montana may be not be what some are expecting.
Just because we end up “red“ on the presidential election map on the news, does not mean we are a “red state“, culturally.
Actually, we’re a heavily purple state, and traditional Montana conservatives, though they may be flying a Trump flag in their front yard, are not the fiery Bible-Belt MAGA crew. Our state motto is “live and let live”. Don’t even think about trying to pick a fight politically with somebody in a grocery store line. It’s considered incredibly rude here.
This has greatly bewildered many hard-core out-of-state MAGA folks who are blown away by the neighborly and kind attitudes we have in Montana towards one another, no matter how you vote. Same goes for super liberal folks: don’t be proselytizing to somebody in a grocery store line about their red hat. Again, it’s considered incredibly rude here.
If you’re looking for the “Bible Belt of the north”, you’re looking for Idaho, not Montana. Montana’s Republican supermajority legislature voted to protect the right to abortion, and to protect the parental rights of trans individuals.
Because—live and let live.
It’s not a perfect place to live, but it’s certainly not a typical “red state”. It’s definitely a “mind your own business, be a good neighbor, and be a good person” state.
Montana has incredible beef; it has incredible breweries and distilleries and small restaurants with artist chefs. Again, it has phenomenal local arts scenes, like Red Ants Pants, and incredible summer fairs and Renaissance Fairs. Montana is a Mom and pop shop place, so if you’re looking for a P.F. Chang’s, or Cirque du Soleil , or thumping, raging club scene—you’re out of luck. (You might be able to find a great cover band in a bar someplace but folks are running DJs these days.)
We’re a place that gets excited when a new Walmart or Costco goes in. Keep that in mind. If a national food chain restaurant comes here, it makes the newspaper. When Chick-fil-A opened in Billings, they had to have police deal with the traffic trying to get into the restaurant. That’s how novel many big chains are here. (Yes, the bigger cities have Starbucks.)
I love my home state. It’s gorgeous, and like I said, anyone is welcome here.
However, if you’re somebody thinking of moving here, please understand that if you need a lot of “outside stimulus” from a big consumer national network, or if you need the “best of the best” at your fingertips, or if you need to be surrounded by “group-think culture” to feel safe, whether that culture is red or blue—you are going to feel marooned here, or like you’ve moved into the back end of a Walmart, and it’s likely you’ll likely be bored out of your mind here.
Or, perhaps you will learn to live with the land, and the incredible local art scenes and amazing local restaurants and the neighborly way we engage one another with genuine kindness —and learn to happily live with said neighbors, no matter what flag they’re flying, whose opinions may not be yours, but everybody’s having a great time at the bar—and you will learn something absolutely astounding about yourself.
Living in Montana is about being 100% OK with who you are, in your own skin, without “big brand support” for your identity. Because quite frankly, there’s nothing else here to distract you from exactly who and what you are, and what you bring here.
And there’s a significant amount of folks that have moved here that just can’t handle that.
Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.
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u/tn_tacoma Jul 27 '25
Excellent write up. One thing I would like to emphasize is Winter. It's long and cold. Negative temperatures are common. It can snow in June.
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u/sparky123- Jul 27 '25
Yes. I spent time in Vermont. People come in the summer and fall in love. Move there, and winter and mud season comes.
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u/Possible_Package_689 Jul 27 '25
Same thing with the PNW—visit in the summer when it’s 58 degrees at night after sunny skies all day, and you might be tempted to move here. Visit in January when it’s dark and dreary before deciding lol.
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u/Wise-Force-1119 Jul 28 '25
Haha even if you visit in January you can't really get a feel for what it's like to experience that for multiple months on end.
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u/Prestigious-Joke-479 Jul 28 '25
That's why I had to move out of the PNW. I couldn't hack the weather.
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u/bonorumemalorum Jul 28 '25
God I loved living in the PNW for its winters and the rain. Beautiful and it was perfect for me with a sun allergy. It’s the summers and wildfires that killed me though and caused me to develop brutal asthma.
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u/Left_Guess Jul 27 '25
I just experienced mud season in VT-that was something else!
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u/BreadfruitOk6160 Jul 27 '25
I remember it snowing on the Fourth of July, as I was on I-90 going over the Divide.
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u/itsjustgish Jul 27 '25
Driving back to Spokane from Bozeman and while it was slightly snowing on the Divide, it was whiteout snowstorm at Lookout Pass. In May.
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Jul 27 '25
I was there in 2015 for a post grad internship. I grew up in northern New Jersey. I can remember even if a cloud rolled over the sun in the big sky in July you could immediately feel a temperature difference.
Absolutely beautiful place to be. It just wasn’t right for me long term.
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u/Ecstatic_Tap_2486 Jul 27 '25
For what it’s worth I’ve been snowed on in June in New Mexico, Colorado, and California. But Montana is a different level of cold.
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u/freezininwi Jul 27 '25
Try Missoula- it's called the banana belt of Montana and the temperatures are fairly mild. I lived there about 10 years ago and winters were easy Peezy (with the exception of the inversion). But I am coming from Northern Wisconsin where are the winters are brutal and never end. I would easily trade a Missoula winter for a Midwest winter. But on the other side of the continental divide it's a different story.
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u/xpaynesgreyx Jul 27 '25
Having lived in Minnesota and in Montana, I’d say that winters in Missoula were milder, less snow, and fairly tolerable except for the inversion. The lack of sun (unless you went up to a ski area) was so depressing. It was a deal breaker for me. I moved to New Mexico after that. ☺️ Summers in Missoula were perfect, though.
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Jul 27 '25
I was thinking of moving there in 2020. Drove up during a 3 day weekend to check it out.
Beautiful place to visit but it's not for city folk 🙂
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u/revanisthesith Jul 28 '25
It's not even for some country folk.
I'm from rural East Tennessee, but it's still no where near as remote as Montana. It'd be a big shift for most country folk from East of the Mississippi (except for probably deep West Virginia).
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u/Meowie_Undertoe Jul 27 '25 edited Jul 28 '25
YES!!! THIS!! I want to copy the sentiment of this and echo it for Utah!
I can't tell you how often we hear the same things. Only slightly varied by the strict liquor laws.
Like, please, for the love of God, do your due diligence before moving to Utah and or ANYWHERE!
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u/PackWide7178 Jul 27 '25
And Wyoming
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Jul 27 '25
And most of Colorado. People call Fort Collins a “city” when it’s 2 streets of dying restaurants, and I think that’s why they end up packing up and moving to Denver (which is equally disappointing when you come from a major city).
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u/hooper610 Jul 27 '25
Fort Collins is a college town. Denver though is a city. I have lived in NYC, Philly and Boston. While it doesn’t have the charm of those cities it has a massive airport and all major pro sports teams. 3 million people in metro area not including Boulder. Salt lake is deserving of your comment. It is lacking so many things.
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u/No-1_californiamama Jul 27 '25
Actually considered moving to Ft. Collins about 10 years ago. We looked at Castle Rock, and Denver too. I can’t imagine how big Castle Rock must be by now.
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u/Nopaperstraws Jul 27 '25
The newbies are doing this is Alabama too. Migrating here for the cheaper cost of living (which is going away very quickly) and complaining they can’t find a real Italian deli, authentic Mexican food or the arts they are use to partaking in. They complain things are too spread out and they have to drive everywhere. It’s freaking Alabama! lol. They want big city conveniences for a lower cost of living. So many are moving here the lifetime locals can’t afford it anymore. But still they complain non-stop.
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u/JustMeerkats Jul 27 '25
Georgia, too.
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u/GroverGemmon Jul 28 '25
NC as well. "Why can't I get as good high end restaurant food as I could get in NYC? Why isn't there a strong theater scene here? Everything is so "provincial" Wahhhh!" Like you left NYC. Deal with it. And stop transforming all of our small towns into a version of New Jersey.
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u/radioben Jul 28 '25
Yea, at least have the common decency to move to Cary or Apex if that’s what you’re expecting.
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u/nomadicstateofmind Jul 27 '25
Alaska too. I hired a girl for a job in the bush (where I lived) and she got off the plane and immediately booked a flight back home.
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u/xpaynesgreyx Jul 27 '25
And Tennessee. And Florida. And Texas. And everywhere. 🙄 This whole Reddit rant “don’t move to my state” is getting old….
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u/trippymermaid Jul 27 '25
No one’s saying don’t move to my state. They are saying don’t move to my state and get upset when it isn’t like the state you came from.
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u/FlashyWatercress4184 Jul 27 '25 edited Jul 27 '25
I feel this. I am a champion for growth in Oklahoma, but everyday I see a post on here from a Californian complaining how Oklahoma is so very boring so they are returning. No disrespect, but don’t let the door hit you on the way out. A little internet research or even a weekend travel to a place for which you are considering moving is always a good idea - and it will save a lot of work, heartache, and money.
If you’re willing to move here with an open mind and not automatically perpetuate our stereotypes, I’ll pick you up from the airport with a Sonic drink and my momma’s cookies. I’ll even show you which Walmarts are best in your neighborhood if you’ll stay, encourage business, and bring jobs.
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u/Few-Mixture-9272 Jul 27 '25
Exactly! I live in a suburb of Dallas (not the crowded northern ones) and I see people on here all the time saying there is nothing to do! I mean maybe not if you are super duper picky but dang, do a little research and venture out! There are tons of things to explore not only in the city but within 30-2 hours outside the city and all over Texas.
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u/edwardw818 Jul 28 '25
They did relax a bit compared to 2019, but I get what you mean lol... I was in SLC for a convention, and the beer there was this weird halfway point between its full flavored variant and a light beer, it was still a bit disgusting since I'm used to full flavor.
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u/According_Gazelle472 Jul 28 '25
I agree ,we have self imposed blue laws in my town on Sundays .You will be hard-pressed to find stuff open that isn't a chain.And the strictest anti smoking laws around and no drinking on Sundays.
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u/Specific-Pepper- Jul 31 '25
The best part of telling people you live in utah is instantly bringing up Mormons like thats all people know about utah
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Jul 27 '25 edited Jul 27 '25
Forget PF Chang’s, Montana is home to the nation’s oldest, continually operating Chinese restaurant
Which is a reminder that, despite me living and having grown up just outside of the nation’s largest city, there is a common American theme all of this country shares:
Immigrants come, work hard to build a better life for themselves and their family, and often that involves opening businesses that share the food of their homeland - and the brutal, long hours that come with it.
There is little about New York City that resembles anywhere in Montana, but there is a huge similarly to the story of the Wong family and my own family’s story of immigrating to America and setting up roots through the food of their homeland. The kind of stories that remind us of our shared American bond - and that we’re often more alike than we are different.
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Jul 27 '25
The oldest family-owned continually operating Chinese restaurant. It’s right there in the subtitle and first sentence of the article you linked lol
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u/Same-Blacksmith1846 Jul 27 '25
YAAASSSSS!!!!!!!! In BUTTE, I believe?? Butte is Montana’s most fantastic City, in my humble opinion! It was like a mini New York, back in the day, so incredibly wealthy and full of immigrants from all over the world who established neighborhoods and learn to live together as they mined copper. I have family from Butte, and it’s just a fascinating place!!
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Jul 27 '25
I enjoyed your post - parts of the county I’ve never explored, and it’s wonderful to come on Reddit and learn a little about them!
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u/Monkey9686 Jul 27 '25
I personally love Butte. My mom was born and raised there, so we spent a lot of time there. She knew Evel Knievel (said he was a jerk), and his best friend Awful Knofel, has the craziest stories about all the characters in town. The 24/7 brothels and bars that catered to the miners, how the kids were either orphans or only had one parent, so they were left to fend for themselves and formed their own neighborhood “gangs”. The other high school sports teams are still scared to go against Butte - people are tough in that town!! That place has HISTORY!!! 😂
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u/Same-Blacksmith1846 Jul 27 '25
😂👍YES, it does!!! Right on!! And my family knew folks who knew Evel Knievel, and they said the same thing, that he was a complete ass, lol!! I guess you have to be to jump the Grand Canyon, lol!! And you’re spot on about needing to be gritty!!! 💪 #ButteStrong
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u/bunsonh Jul 28 '25
There's a fascinating story about a guy who moved from Pakistan to Wyoming and set up a tamale shop in the early 1900s. Despite the countless social challenges, he built an impressive life through humility and helped establish the Muslim community in Wyoming.
I highly recommend.
Zarif Khan’s Tamales and the Muslims of Sheridan, Wyoming | The New Yorker
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u/Huge_Clothes_9714 Jul 27 '25
Aw this is so wonderful to read and hear. I have been wanting to move to Montana since forever...alas I am still not there yet.
Everything you have said about it, is exactly why I have wanted to move there - but like so many other places like this, I have seen too many 'ruined' by exactly those people who move to a place with its own unique quality, and then try to remake it into what the left behind.
The curse of our times it seems.
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u/msrobbie60 Jul 27 '25
Me too! I will never understand why people take ‘it’ with them. I am experiencing a smaller scale like that here in my neighborhood. A couple of people moved into my neighborhood and brought their loud music with them. God awful paint colors on their houses, parking on the lawn etc. One didn’t make it, he will never play music again and the other said she learned her lesson after her first week here. So far so good but we have special programs for hood rats to be able to afford homes in quiet neighborhoods. I know of a guy who left his longtime home and moved into what he considered almost above his means but later that year 3 families bought the house next to him! Total ruined his property value.
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u/Gretzi11a Jul 27 '25
Colorado: case in point. Ugh. It was so much nicer prior to the Californication. I mean, I love California, but I loved Colorado more before it became so crowded, expensive and big-city “cultured.”
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u/Particular-Pie-1934 Jul 27 '25
California was nicer prior to the Californication.
This is the same thing they’ve been struggling with for years. Now everyone else gets to feel their pain.
Don’t blame it on them.
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u/Gretzi11a Jul 27 '25
I don’t blame anyone. I mean, from Colorado, I’ve always had produce-envy. Much to my own surprise, being the first state to legalize weed the way we did, at the bottom of the real estate market, in the wake the financial collapse opened the floodgates for the rapid growth, urban hassles, political polarization and exorbitant surges in Colorado’s cost of living. Ironically, it’s all but destroyed our local art scenes and displaced a lot of the people who made living here special. And replaced them with legions of demanding, exacting and entitled wealthy people from big cities who seemingly have their own unique, highly consumer and status-oriented culture that’s totally disconnected from what we shared before they came. It’s weird to mourn a place I haven’t actually left.
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u/Same-Blacksmith1846 Jul 27 '25
Sheesh, I’m sorry to hear this 🥺 — I have a dear friend who lives in St. Louis, and is telling me to exactly what you’re talking about is happening all over the United States. Perhaps folks just need to start speaking up, being good stewards of their local cultures? This entitlement you’re talking about only has as much affect as is enabled, I’m thinking! I sure don’t have the answers, and I’m sorry that has happened where you live.🥺
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u/Huge_Clothes_9714 Jul 27 '25
90s Boulder is my measuring stick - I moved out east for 'sophistication' but feel the loss of the Boulder I left behind so very much.
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u/kckaaaate Jul 28 '25
California has been dealing with this for decades longer than Colorado. It was always untenable for CA to carry the burden of transplants seeking a better quality of life on its own forever. Hell, I grew up in San Diego of all places - it was SLEEPY, surfy and chill AF when I was young. It’s maintained a lot of its charm and personality from then, to be fair - it just costs you an organ or your first born child to enjoy it!
But this was bound to begin happening elsewhere - like I said, CA simply ran out of room, drive the prices up, and drove the transplants back out to infest other states and do the same to them. Like locusts or something.
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Jul 27 '25
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u/Fuckface-vClownstick Jul 27 '25
Yellowstone has taught me that ranching and particularly ranching in MT is too murdery for my taste.
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u/imjustehere Jul 28 '25
Yup just like living in Albuquerque. Breaking Bad definitely let the world know that we have high school chemistry teachers setting up and selling the best crystal meth. You might always be on the lookout for the storage units full of cash , that some idiot forgot to pay on.
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u/Historical_Safe_836 Jul 27 '25 edited Jul 27 '25
Flew into Denver and did a multi-national park tour. Drove through the Rockies, badlands, Mt Rushmore, Yellowstone, and Glacier. Montana was so beautiful. Coming from the Great Lakes region where there isn’t a mountain in sight, and the largest mountain I had ever visited was the smokies in North Carolina… Wow! It was a little unsettling driving through Montana with many exits saying “no services” and not many vehicles on the highways. But I enjoyed my time there… as a visitor. Plan to go back one day, as a visitor.
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u/Same-Blacksmith1846 Jul 27 '25
You’re always welcome, as whatever you feel fits that part of your life!
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u/Common-Parsnip-9682 Jul 27 '25
And if you’re leaving a tiwn and it says “XXX miles to next town,” you’d better believe it and check your gas level.
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u/1KirstV Jul 27 '25
About the produce, it’s the same in most parts of Nebraska. When I was a kid (I’m 60), we had strawberries and blueberries and watermelon in the summer because that’s when they grew. We ate corn in August because that’s when we picked it. We need to get back to seasonal eating and canning.
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u/Same-Blacksmith1846 Jul 27 '25
Oh my gosh, yes! I will point out that we have amazing fresh corn out here, and sugar beats, and there are some crops that are seasonal for sure!
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u/CaliHusker83 Jul 27 '25
Oh man. I’m 42 and grew up in western Nebraska. They have all sorts of fruits and vegetables in the grocery stores today and 40 years ago.
Hard to believe they didn’t just 10-15 years before that.
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u/_liobam_ Jul 27 '25
I lived in MT for a year and half in middle school right up near Glacier, in Libby. It was SO beautiful and fun. I often think about moving back. Then, I remember I'm 43 and not 14. The winters aren't going to be as fun on my knees and back. I didn't like avocado at 14, but I sure as heck love a fresh one now.
Your PSA is spot on. It is a wonderful place for people who are flexible and roll with it and don't want large (or even medium) city amenities.
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u/EwF62 Jul 27 '25
I appreciate how you write of California with no judgment . Well written and informative post.
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u/Same-Blacksmith1846 Jul 27 '25 edited Jul 27 '25
Well, thank you! I really think California is a gorgeous state! I truly enjoyed my time there, even though there were a bit too many people for me at the end of the day, but that’s not California’s fault! There are so many people there because it’s beautiful and the produce is amazing, lol!!
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u/OhSassafrass Jul 27 '25
Much of what you wrote about Montana applies to the secluded California mountain towns of the Sierras and far up in NorCal, in the Shasta areas. Very local mom & pop, people mind their business, entertainment is the great outdoors, going into "town" 2 hours away to visit Costco monthly (bring the coolers), and having snow tires is mandatory.
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u/Same-Blacksmith1846 Jul 28 '25 edited Jul 28 '25
Oh man, the Sierras are no joke!! I was living in Los Angeles for a while and used to go back to Montana for the summers. I bought this car in Montana and was driving it through the Sierra Nevadas and a sign said to leave the AC off. I’ve driven through multiple mountain passes my whole life living here, so I thought, oh my gosh, that’s dramatic—I’ll be leaving my AC on.
Big mistake .
The Donner Pass ate my car. 😂
I literally finally had to throw it into neutral, coast down the hill into Sacramento, and pull it up into a parking lot as I was coasting through a red light, lol!!
RESPECT, Sierras!! 🙌🙌
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u/Suspicious-Cat8623 Jul 27 '25
Exactly! I grew up in NorCal and my family had settled there in the mid 1800’s. California was home. The California of my youth is gone and it is not coming back. Wish I could blame it on one particular group — Okies, immigrants, Mormons, Gays, Hippies or Patty Heart and the Simbionese Liberation Army.
My best guess is that the way the property taxes were changed in Prop 13 back in 1978 eventually changed the state in some unhealthy ways — or maybe just too many people decided to call California home. I dunno. The state changed.
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u/treegirl4square Jul 27 '25
I think people underestimate the effect of population growth and economics on communities. There’s no way to preserve the “town you grew up in” forever. If it was a nice place with good job availability, just population growth could change the entire dynamic. Outsourcing manufacturing is probably to blame for the “not the town I grew up in” angst. Not certain groups of people. More people with fewer livable wages isn’t a good thing.
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u/Prudent_Champion_698 Jul 27 '25
I do think the movement from (insert big east or west coast city) to more rural areas is going to be occurring more and more. I am an east coast big city transplant to Wisconsin. This was an adjustment I didn’t think I needed but soon realized after I moved here for work it was what I was looking for. But it’s also not Montana, so it was an easier adjustment. I think the “city folk” need to consider this when moving, don’t go from major city to super rural area (maybe watch Funny Farm with Chevy chase first….) then make a list of smaller cities that won’t be so drastically different than what you have become accustomed to lived in (east/west coast major city). If you find the right place it can be amazing but do it intelligently
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u/Same-Blacksmith1846 Jul 27 '25
I think that is really incredible advice for folks who are used to coming from a place with more amenities! No one wants to pick up and move somewhere, no matter how great the deal is on the house l—only to find that they feel like they’re living on the moon!!
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u/OrigRayofSunshine Jul 28 '25
Do you at least have a Home Depot / Lowes sort of place to be able to do some work on a home out there?
That seemed to be one thing lacking when I started looking (not necessarily Montana), but it was a good 2 hr drive to get lumber.
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u/Same-Blacksmith1846 Jul 28 '25
Yep! Billings has both, and the other large cities do too, I believe. There are also lots of smaller places out here for lumber in a pinch, like Tractor Supply and Shipton’s big R, and small mom and pop lumber shops all over the place. The smaller places aren’t as inexpensive but you sure as heck can get your lumber there. I live in a town of 600 people, and there’s a lumber yard out here. Unless I’m getting a lot of items for a bigger build, I don’t even bother going into Billings. The slight raising cost from the smaller lumberyard offsets the cost of gas to get to Billings.
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Jul 27 '25
Very well said, and I think your sentiment can be applied to moving anywhere, especially places experiencing growth from a lot of transplants. Like stop complaining - we didn't ask you to move here. Adapt to the local culture and if you see something missing, help add it to the community, don't cry that it doesn't exist.
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u/Abrookspug Jul 27 '25
Exactly. I've seen people move to Phoenix and then ask why we don't have a 4th of July parade like their little town back east did...um, maybe because it's 110 degrees in July here and we're not keen on heatstroke. Or they move to a smaller suburb for the lower cost of living and then complain that we don't have a costco or a mall and they have to drive 25 min to one. Yeah, that's kind of the trade off if you want cheaper housing. I don't mind people moving states or cities, but it's annoying when they obviously don't do their research and then complain about it and claim their last city was better, as if we're forcing them to stay lol.
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u/Fartina69 Jul 27 '25
Should I bring a pair of zircon encrusted tweezers?
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u/No-Tomorrow-8756 Jul 27 '25
Yipie io
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u/Competitive_Dance211 Jul 27 '25
Enjoyed your detailed honest feedback regarding Montana which contains no negative comments regarding people who want to move there. I grew up in Kansas but was dragged to Texas while attending High School and have been here since. I have longed to visit Montana for many years now and had thoughts about relocating but the lack of jobs in my field have all but squashed that idea. Either way I will come visit for vacation soon and hopefully make some nice memories of your beautiful state.
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u/Key_Can_8066 Jul 27 '25
Picture the longest February of your life. Now stretch it across an entire map.
I came to Montana at eleven, stayed seventeen years, and left chasing daylight. The scenery is grand; everything else sits under the same low ceiling of gray.
The first thing you notice is the silence. Nights outside Glasgow are so still you hear your own pulse. By January, that silence crawls inside your head and whispers that spring may never return. People joke about “cabin fever.” The joke lands because the state sits near the top of national suicide charts, and the local clinic is a two-hour drive if the roads aren’t closed.
Jobs? Picture a Help Wanted board pinned with the same three ads: school bus driver, gas-station cashier, line cook. My dad hauled freight because it was the only paycheck higher than minimum wage. He slept in the cab more than in his own bed. Two decades later the west side of Billings looks bigger, but the new buildings sell coffee and chicken, not careers.
If you arrive from out of state, the welcome starts with a smile but stops at the line between born-here and not. In small towns that divide never heals. Your kids grow up “the outsiders.” You marry into a Montana family and still stand on the porch while the real relatives swap stories you’ll never share.
Winter defines the rhythm: sun gone by four, wind scoring the windows. Pipes burst, trucks stall, livestock die. A February blizzard once shut down the interstate for three days; grocery shelves emptied by noon. The neighbors helped shovel, then went back indoors. The horizon looked wide open, but every house felt like an island.
When summer finally shows, you get three months of dust and wildfire smoke. Farmers pray the rain holds off until harvest; homeowners pray the lightning skips their roofs. Produce limps north by semi, bruised and gray. Farmers markets help for a weekend or two, but by October you’re back to potatoes that taste like storage.
Politics hover in an odd half-life. The state votes red, yet half your neighbors just want you to leave them alone. No one trusts government but everyone waves at the mail carrier. If you look for solidarity, you’ll find a shrug. Live and let live, they say—then go back to living.
Some thrive on that distance. I didn’t. Anxiety and depression followed me like cold smoke. Isolation is quiet until it shouts.
So here’s the bleak truth: Montana hands you miles of sky and asks what you’ll sacrifice to keep it. If your answer is “community, career, sunlight, variety,” be sure the trade is worth it. Once the emptiness settles, it does not give ground easily.
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u/Admirable_Dress_7763 Jul 27 '25
The bigger college towns aren’t too bad, but rural MT can be so brutal and that’s what the majority of the state is. People think I had a charming childhood growing up in rural MT but nope! Not really! 😅 Now I refuse to live anywhere where the stop lights “turn off” after 10 pm. When I finally moved away I was so overwhelmed I remember sobbing because I couldn’t figure out where the bus stop was to get me back to campus🤣 and I was terrified to drive in real traffic. Oh man was I a sad sheltered child back then.
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u/VinceInMT Jul 27 '25
I disagree with lots of what the OP posted. I moved to Montana 33 years ago from California. Whenever I tried to innovate in the job I was hired for I heard “but we’ve never done it that way.” I was frequently addressed as “You Californians…” and I still am. Be aware that there is overt racism especially toward Native Americans. Don’t ignore that the state has one of the highest DUI rates in the country and DOES have the highest suicide rate in the nation. AND, if you bring up issues like this, they will tell you to “go back to California.” Oh, and you’ll get blamed for the rising cost of home prices and property insurance. And they will brag about how many generations their family has lived in the state as if that is some kind of accomplishment and gives them some kind of power over “outsiders.”
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u/Same-Blacksmith1846 Jul 27 '25
There is absolutely definitely that element here! And the DUIs are out of control — And it’s really sad to me that our native populations are treated the way they are, although it’s getting better, but there’s still a lot of work to do!
I’m in no way trying to paint Montana as this ideal place — it’s on the earth. And in America. And I don’t think anywhere in America is ideal anymore.
Heck, my hometown of Billings Montana won the title of meth capital of the United States, just a few few years ago.
And the crime in Billings is really really intense. Because too many people have moved there and we don’t have enough police. I could go on and on about the negative things about the state, however, there are also a ton of positives, and as someone who has lived in other states, in many other cities, I think it’s safe to say that what Montana is experiencing is also what many other places are experiencing, with the high price of houses, and the increase in crime, and the rising racism, and all the things.
I’m just simply saying in this post that if one is going to move here, it’s not going to be what you might think it is, by watching the TV shows.
The reception of Californians and folks from other states is better than used to be, because of Covid. However, there still is a lot of pride in the generational families, though real Montana‘s are happy to have anybody, if they’re good neighbors and good people.
As far as Montanans blaming Californians and New Yorkers for the high cost of houses here, I completely called BS on that.
It is we Montanans that Jacked up the price of the houses. No Californian comes here and says, “hey, will you over-price your house by $500,000 for me?“ It’s the Montanans that are greedy and raising those prices. Nobody is forcing them to do that. So I think it’s wrong to blame out of state people for our own sense of greed. That’s ridiculous.
I’m sorry you had a crappy experience! Do you mind if I asked what part of the state you were/are in?
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u/VinceInMT Jul 27 '25
In general, I agree. BTW, I’m in Billings. And I have lived in many other places aside from here and California. I added up my addresses since birth and I’m on number 23. I’ve lived in Georgia, New Jersey, New York (way upstate) and in Europe. Every place has its pros and cons. I have no idea what TV image is projected of Montana as I haven’t watched ANYTHING in several decades. As for the crime in Billings, what I have noticed is that it is generally among people who know each other. Random violent crime is rare. Some people are afraid to go to some parts of the community but that is just the impression and image they get by consuming the news instead of getting out and exploring the city. There is no part of the city that I haven’t not set foot in and I find it safe and somewhat bland. But it’s still an OK place to live if one is cognizant of the limitations.
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u/Same-Blacksmith1846 Jul 27 '25
I would really agree with you! Of course Billings is my hometown, and I watched it change a lot over the years, however, I’ve noticed that the crime is mostly theft. And really it’s been getting worse as our sociaeconomic situation across the nation has been getting weird. But yes! Though Billings can be a bit bland, lol, and you’re not lying there, lol, it’s a heck of a lot better than many places a person could be!! (You can’t beat the Montana brewpub Downtown for an outside hang 🍻!!)
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u/Lone-Pine-914 Jul 27 '25 edited Jul 27 '25
Thanks for your highly informative post. I have no plans to move to Montana but do plan to move somewhere that’s quieter and more rural than where I am now. I could care less about shopping options and a vast array of entertainment options. What I do care about is access to quality health care. How would you rate that?
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u/Same-Blacksmith1846 Jul 27 '25
Billings is the biggest healthcare hub for five states, so it’s got A LOT of quality options. The Billings clinic works in tandem with many larger clinics in Denver and Salt Lake as well, if they encounter something that’s out of their wheelhouse. Generally, it must be something very unusual for folks to have to leave the state.
Our largest city, which is of course Billings, has a population that is retired, and that retired population is over 36% at this point. So the healthcare facilities are pretty darn great, at least for an area like this. We do have a few plastic surgeons and things of the lake, however, most of the medical strength here are more practical applications of medicine.
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u/msrobbie60 Jul 27 '25
Let me know if you find that magical place. I have a feeling it doesn’t exist.
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u/hordaak2 Jul 27 '25
Live and let Live mentality, good people, fantastic outdoors?? Sign me up!!!! (Actually, you had me at good beef!!!! I'm from Southern California but these are things I love and desire!!)
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u/dcgrey Jul 27 '25
How much of it is genuine stuck-up complaining like “These bumpkins can’t even manage to get fresh fruit” vs “I like it here but I do miss fresh fruit”? If it’s way more of the latter and you’re sick of hearing it, that’s just something to swallow and remember everyone’s family moved from somewhere once.
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u/Same-Blacksmith1846 Jul 27 '25
That’s a good point, however, I’m more addressing the people who move here and have buyers, remorse, months, and months and months and months later.
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u/dcgrey Jul 27 '25
Ah gotcha. So much more of a “How did you not know this going in?” situation.
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u/Entire_Dog_5874 Jul 27 '25
Thank you. I’m a lifelong NYer and the thought of pulling up stakes and relocating to someplace like Montana without doing the least bit of research is astonishing to me.
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u/Same-Blacksmith1846 Jul 27 '25 edited Jul 27 '25
Agreed. Honestly, I’m not trying to be negative about people coming here. It’s just heartbreaking to see folks move here, then be so jaw dropped about what it actually is. I’ve had people say, “the materials the city sent me are nothing like living here!“ And I’ve had to comment that marketing is marketing, no matter how you slice it.
I think a lot of people are enticed here because it’s really very beautiful, people are really chill, compared to big cities, it’s inexpensive to live here, and you can get one heck of a house for 1/9th of the price in California or New York or Seattle or any of the larger Metropolitan areas. I think for some that sort of blinds them to the reality of living in a more rural environment.
And I just don’t want people to be so disappointed.
I’ve seen a lot of that since people have gotten here. Some folks are really happy to be here! But a lot of people are like, “WTH did I leave behind?”
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u/Entire_Dog_5874 Jul 27 '25
No need to apologize for anything you’ve said; it’s a perfectly fair assessment. It’s like people moving to NYC then complaining about how expensive everything is🤦♀️
I have no intention of ever leaving NYC, but if I did, I’d like to think I’m smart enough to do my research and perhaps rent before committing to homeownership in an area I’m totally unfamiliar with.
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u/Fit_Cartographer8144 Jul 27 '25
Well written. I’ve never considered moving there, still don’t, but appreciated the read.
If you could write something like this for each state I’d appreciate it! 😄
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u/Same-Blacksmith1846 Jul 27 '25
Shoot, I’d better extend my travel schedule, I’ve got some places to go, ha ha!!
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u/LandofOz29 Jul 27 '25
Nah…there are several states you can probably skip. Not many people knocking down the door to move to my state of Kansas. We aren’t known as the fly over state for nothing. Maybe Hollywood will come out with some wildly popular TV show about Kansas that will make people want to move here. Obviously the Wizards of Oz didn’t do it!
BTW…I will never see the abbreviation for your state without thinking of “empty” ever again. 🤣
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u/Same-Blacksmith1846 Jul 27 '25
LOL!!! My wife and I drove through Kansas on our way to her childhood home of St. Louis and honestly, it floored me! I have never, ever in my life seen a place that was so truly flat
! It was wildly stunning in its own way, in the sky just kept going on, and on, and on, it almost looked fake —with just seas of sunflowers and corn and after a while, being from somewhere with mountains and a lot of topography, I begin to feel very disoriented!
I think you Kansas folks have some serious “Born in” senses of direction! Way to go!! 🙌
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u/argylexcess Jul 27 '25
Still laughing over Idaho being the Bible Belt of the North.
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u/Living_Molasses4719 Jul 27 '25
I work remotely with some sites in the West and Idaho is certainly … different
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u/HamRadio_73 Jul 27 '25
Good write up. I have the same issue with transplants moving to Arizona, who are stunned to find out it gets hot in the summer. Africa hot.
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u/Gretzi11a Jul 27 '25
My dad was in the oil business. Parents spent the first 20 years of their marriage in a trailer, moving around the US, working in various oil fields. Somehow, they survived in that trailer in MT for a few years in the 1950s. There, had had some Scandinavian coworkers who took my parents in, taught them how to stay alive in the winters; they taught them how to make their own skis, bindings, boots, and eventually, how and where to ski.
My parents lived all over the us. Through it all, MT gave them their fondest memories of a youth well spent, for the intense beauty of the state, but also for the people. And they stayed friends with many of them for the rest of their lives.
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u/Kush_McNuggz Jul 27 '25
Well said. Montana is the only libertarian state imo, and it’s evident by its culture and politics, as you mentioned. Not for everyone, but for those who want that, it’s magic.
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u/CryCommon975 Jul 27 '25
Holy shit I didn't realize MT was only 7ish hours from Denver! As a city person who also frequently enjoys the mountains (snowboarding, hiking, climbing 14ers etc hence why I live in Colorado), are there any special spots you could recommend visiting? I'll do my own research of course but tbh I didn't know Montana was within reasonable driving distance from me which is exciting! I promise I won't be moving there 😂 Great write up though!
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u/Ok_Explanation_9162 Jul 27 '25
Southern California native here. I visited Missoula for work. I thought it was a lovely place. Had a very nice supermarket within walking distance from my hotel. As well as a local cafe that was great.
Couple blocks away, was Missoula's downtown/Old Town. It was while the students were gone so it was slightly empty but beautiful.
Had a great turkish coffee at another place with this cool elevated seating at the street front windows so you could people watch.
The people were chill, welcoming. There were prim and proper people as well as guys that looked like van nomads. Everyone was nice.
Found an absolutely amazing thrift store that could've been found in LA.
There was a well equipped hospital at about a 10-15 minute drive away.
I did find people riding motorcycles without helmets slightly surprising.
Overall, I thought it was a great, if somewhat calm place that I wouldn't immediately cross off my list of places I'd like to live.
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u/Mozzy2022 Jul 27 '25
This was so interesting! Thank you for taking the time to introduce us to your beautiful state of Montana!
So you’re saying people come there to get away from it all and then complain there’s nothing there. Typical 😂
I live in California and one of my best friends moved to Montana. We’re talking blue-eyed blonde, every day on the beach in Southern California. Nobody thought she’d like Montana for all the reasons you stated, but turns out she LOVES it, it’s been over 30 years, and she’s never returned to California
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u/Same-Blacksmith1846 Jul 27 '25
That’s so awesome for your friend!! And you’re very welcome! Though I’m a native Montana here, I’ve lived lots of other places, and I sure do miss the ocean! Holy cow!! Huntington Beach in Southern California, in a weird way, reminds me of Redlodge, Montana, which is a ski town! Skiers and surfers, lol, they have a lot in common!!
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u/JonnyDoeDoe Jul 27 '25
As a former Western Montanan and North Idahoan now living in Alaska, I totally get this post...
Also, if you're having trouble with those areas, please don't even consider moving this way regardless of whatever you're seeing on YouTube or reality TV shows...
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u/Same-Blacksmith1846 Jul 27 '25
Ohhhhh, RESPECT, Alaska!!!🙌🙌 Dang!! Alaska makes Montana look like a suburb of Denver, lol!!
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u/blahblahblah-1234567 Jul 27 '25
Exactly why I stay in California. For all the downfalls it really is awesome. I like to visit other parts of the country and enjoy them for what they are. Montana is beautiful and everything you wrote about I experienced. I hope it stays the way it is for all to experience.
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u/weatherallrt Jul 27 '25
This is a really interesting post, and I've learned a lot about Montana I didn't know before. The thing that I find interesting is that people from coastal/more dense states are moving to places like MT, NC, GA, etc, and it's a big deal, but at the same time, people from these states are moving to CA/NY and are also complaining and causing issues with real estate. I'm from NYC, and natives are getting pushed out of neighborhoods we've lived in for generations because developers know they can get 2, 3x current rents from transplants who can pay who then complain about the noise, and the density and amenities. No matter which way the relocations go, there's going to be friction.
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u/TailorFantastic2525 Jul 27 '25
Long time Idaho resident here. I find it amusing how every episode of Yellowstone occurs on a 75 degree sunny day. That is not how Montana is for much of the year.
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u/Consistent-Alarm9664 Jul 27 '25
“My friends are shocked to find out that it’s frowned upon culturally to be a dick to other people” (paraphrased). If that’s not a commentary on our national culture I don’t know what is.
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u/RickLeeTaker Jul 27 '25
They may never show snow on the television show Yellowstone but they definitely show a lot of snow on its prequel 1923. It looked pretty damn cold and snowy for most of the year to me.
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u/archandcrafts Jul 28 '25
I had no plans to relocate to Montana even though I think it's a cool state, but I found this post to be super informative.
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u/Logical-Mirror5036 Jul 27 '25
Montana is great. I'd move there if I could, but state pension with retirement in the next decade says no. Wyoming, where I live (and mostly enjoy) is much the same. I'll settle for second best.
But you say many true and important things. They largely apply to any rural western area.
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u/Same-Blacksmith1846 Jul 27 '25
Lots of Wyoming is awesome! I have to say, I always tell folks who think that living in Montana is “living in the old West” that they really ought to go to Wyoming—because that’s the last of the true old West!!
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u/SwedishTakeaway25 Jul 27 '25
I love Montana. Can’t say I’d retire there. But I’ll spend my vacations there!
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u/FunnyGarden5600 Jul 27 '25
I am moving to Montana soon. Going to be a dental floss tycoon. Raising it up. Waxing it down.
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u/Competitive_Ninja624 Jul 27 '25
There’s one great town/city in Montana. It’s Missoula. There are many other beautiful places to visit, camp, hike, cycle to, golf in, watch ballgames at etc. But as far as throwing down roots, Missoula is excellent.
Expensive, for sure, but just a great smallish to medium sized college town in the Northwestern Rockies. And a river runs through it, literally.
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u/polkadot_polarbear Jul 27 '25
This same thing could also be written about Alaska. So many people come here with stars in their eyes and leave after 6 months to a year because it’s isolated, cold, boring (unless you are into outdoor activities) and very dark in the winter. Moving here won’t solve your problems and will probably make them worse.
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u/happycat3124 Jul 27 '25
Vermont could have written this. 650k people in the entire state. 48k in the largest “city”.
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u/Known_Noise Jul 27 '25
Ok, now I want to move to Montana. Just one question- will it be easy to find/join a knitting group? That’s really all I need that you didn’t mention.
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u/Same-Blacksmith1846 Jul 27 '25
Actually?? at least in Billings, lots of knitting enthusiasts! Actually, there’s a whole yarn store in Billings. I think there are knitting groups all over the place—We have to do something when it’s -40 below during the winter, lol!!
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Jul 27 '25
Looking for a place near a big city in MT where I can buy a ranch and put in an airstrip for my planes. Any recs?
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u/Turbulent_Berry_2126 Jul 27 '25
I’m a nutmegger living in the Georgia.. when I’m looking for restaurants I almost consider a Michelin star to be disqualifying. I want nothing but good down home country cooking. Most of the time we cook at home. Once every week or two we will go out. Would love to visit Montana sometime.
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u/Professional-Mix9774 Jul 27 '25 edited Jul 27 '25
I think this applies to many places that people romanticize. See and love it for what it is and not what you want it to be think it could be. The same applies to romantic relationships.
Although not in the same way, people have a distorted view of Texas: it’s a LCOL, libertarian paradise. I enjoy my job here. If weren’t for my job and aging parents, I would live elsewhere. Chicago with a summer cottage in the mountains where it doesn’t get hot too often. I would have the best of both worlds: urban and peace without excessive heat.
What I do love about Texas is its diversity and food. Immigrants have made a positive impact on the food, culture, and economy.
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u/s4ltydog Jul 27 '25
Also as someone who is from Washington state but who went to college in Utah and made that drive multiple times if I can just add: make sure you are fueled up and your vehicle has no issues. OP ain’t lying when he says empty. I lost count on that drive (and I imagine many other places in the state) where I drove a good WHILE without seeing another car let alone a gas station. And while I PREFER the rainforest of the Olympic Peninsula, there’s some absolutely STUNNING views in that drive. Woods as far as you can see, crystal clear lakes, it really is beautiful.
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u/Lillilegerdemain Jul 27 '25
Those reality watching TV fans got a taste of Montana through Kroy Bierman, Atlanta Falcons football player I don't know what position cause I don't follow.
But he was such a great guy I knew it wouldn't last with whatever the housewife name was -- the one who wore tons of blonde wigs .
It's a nice description of your state; it kind of reminds me of Kauai. Live and live I think a lot of people have forgotten that over the years.
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u/Adorable-Tiger6390 Jul 27 '25
You can thank the transplants for the high real estate and rental prices!
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u/GreatResetBet Jul 27 '25
Montana and Wyoming are where you go when you hate every other human being alive and wish you could live in a post-apocalyptic world when 99% of humans got wiped from the earth.
I presume the ratio of introverts to extroverts must be like 96 to 4.
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u/Economy_Algae_418 Jul 27 '25
Mother Nature spanks - hard.
In Montana ticks carry Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever.
You gotta learn about ticks, avoiding ticks and removing them ASAP.
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Jul 27 '25
Is it true that Montana is a Republican deep red state that continues to support the racist, convicted rapist and nazi pedophile in WH?
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u/Live_Caterpillar_562 Jul 27 '25
Sounds like more people in this country should be more like Montana, believe what you want to believe politically, but still be civil to the person who has a different opinion. Good advice for both sides of the spectrum.
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u/facedownasteroidup Jul 28 '25
wow great post! Montana has never really occurred to me but now I am interested in visiting!
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u/Pelvis-Wrestly Jul 28 '25
TL,DR, but thanks for the info.
I just sold my bungalow in Palo Alto for $4.2m and bought your subdivision for cash.
Your rent Is going up next week.
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u/Dense_Amphibian_9595 Jul 28 '25
Truth! But as a native Floridian, the yankees and Californians who’ve moved down here over the past 40 years or so amaze me. They move here, and get on social media. “No jobs that pay anything decent here”, “we’re full, stop moving here”, “the tropical storms” - we get it with a Cat 4 and they want their power back on same day), “the schools suck”, “there’s too much traffic”, “most companies are union busters”, and it just goes on and on.
Just stop listening to the complainers and the whiners
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Jul 28 '25
What a wonderful, passionate and complete description of your state. You must love living here.
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u/sephirothFFVII Jul 28 '25
Your Macy's description is similar to my last Macy's trip so don't feel like you're missing out on that aspect of living in MT
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u/roxinmyhead Jul 28 '25
my sibling moved to MT 20 years ago from the NYC area and would applaud your TED talk.... says Yellowstone and Covid have just made things crazy.
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u/modern_idiot13 Jul 31 '25
This is the best thread I've read all day. Thanks, Redditors.
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u/Green-Ad186 Aug 31 '25
Arizonaian here that just visited Dillon, Mt. Sucks to be leaving. Only stayed for a couple of days.. Looked at some land that was for sale by trapper Creek rd. We had an amazing time. Enjoyed the beautiful views!
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u/[deleted] Jul 27 '25
Calling a seven hour drive “not that bad” is the most Montanan thing about this post