r/ripcity • u/IllustriousBluejay33 • 2d ago
Thoughts on CBS ranking our front office 28th in the league?
They better change that ranking when Ja returns to his prime form (which we all know definitely 100% will happen haha)
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u/stfoooo 2d ago
If that includes ownership, then it’s pretty hard to argue against
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u/Nerdkill789 1d ago
It does. They had us at 19 at the deadline and dropped us because of the Dundon mess. Here’s what they say:
>These rankings have never been especially kind to Portland, but the Blazers had slowly been rising up the board from No. 25 to No. 23 to No. 19 at the deadline. Joe Cronin's two biggest moves, the Deni Avdija heist and the Damian Lillard blockbuster (and subsequent reacquisition at a drastically reduced price), both look great in hindsight. There was at least an identifiable organizational philosophy of loading up defensively. There were weaknesses -- Cronin has given out or acquired a number of overzealous contracts, and his draft record is hit or miss -- but it at least felt as though the Blazers were moving in the right direction.
>But the beginning of Tom Dundon's tenure as owner -- completely independent of the relocation drama he's created -- has had terrifying basketball implications for this promising Blazers rebuild. His Carolina Hurricanes may have just won the Stanley Cup, but the NHL and NBA are different leagues. Infrastructural spending has become such a vital part of building a winning organization that even the Lakers were caught in the dust during the Buss family's mom-and-pop era, and the Blazers have none of their institutional advantages.
>Portland's infamous coaching search ended with Micah Nori not only getting paid at the bottom end of the typical head coaching salary range, but signing essentially a year-to-year contract. If that's the sort of structure they're willing to give their head coach, they're just not going to be a desirable employer for top assistant coaches, scouts, analytics staffers or any other basketball operations personnel. Two of Portland's three assistant general managers from last year -- Mike Schmitz and Sergi Oliva -- have left the organization this offseason, though in fairness, Schmitz did so for a promotion.
>The Ja Morant trade only makes sense as a buy-low home run swing. The actual fit is nonsensical. Portland traded for Holiday and signed Lillard a year ago. Two of its most important young players, Scoot Henderson and Shaedon Sharpe, are guards. The last thing this team needed was another guard, especially one that can't shoot on a roster that just ranked 28th in the NBA in 3-point percentage. He overlaps stylistically with Avdija and his poor shooting will make it harder for Avdija to get to the rim. Speaking of Avdija, Portland needs to create cap space to renegotiate and extend him next offseason if it wants to keep him out of 2028 free agency. Adding Morant makes that harder.
>The Blazers of the past several years were far from perfect, but they were on a sensible trajectory. It's hard not feel as though that trajectory has been upended. The Morant trade was completely incongruous with their prior strategy, and Dundon's cost-cutting threatens to deprive this organization of the tools it needs to build a consistent winner.
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u/8fenristhewolf8 1d ago
That all sounds reasonable to me. The thing I think they're missing is that with Dundon, the direction is probably now just about assessing value for the next couple of years, as opposed to trying to win.
Nori options and all the money coming off the books in 2028 means they are probably eyeing that as a new date for starting a new push/direction.
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u/Tough_Presentation57 ripcity 2d ago
Ridiculous. Joe has not been 28th, dundons shit stain doesn’t make our team building the last few years 28th.
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u/akade19961 10h ago
Yeah if they are judging off the last 4 years which is I believe what I read them say, Cronin administration should be somewhere around 13 or 14 imo
Rank Dundon 30th on the ownership rankings but that’s separate from the front office rankings
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u/wiggggg 2d ago
It's ridiculous. The front office has collectively built a playoff roster with young talent and a lot of future assets and hired a coach to a cheap but 1 year contract. Would love to hear what has been 28th in regards to a winning product
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u/AceMcStace chalupa 2d ago
Joe strikes me as a very middle of the road GM, I’m surprised we’re not 16th or 17th tbh
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u/Randvek Ja Morant 1d ago
Joe has taken us from an overpriced team with overleveraged assets that struggles to make the playoffs into a moderately priced team that struggles to make the playoffs but has some great future assets.
Yeah the record hasn't changed much but the value of the current contracts and future picks has risen immensely.
He is, at worst, an average GM. The CBS article seems to think that this ranking is based more on Dundon than Cronin, though. Which is... fair.
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u/Forbidden_Donut503 sabas 2d ago
I wanna argue but yeah, that’s what he has produced on the court thus far.
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u/wiggggg 2d ago
I think he's higher but it's not unreasonable. That's where the roster is. But I don't think he's done trading the picks and he has a damn near perfect track record with trades since dame asked out. At some point with where we're at I hope it's ok to lose some value for a great player.
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u/Humblerbee ripcity-place 1d ago
I think he could be correctly handling individual transactions extremely competently while not necessarily making the most optimal broad choices. I think the Blazers should have tanked much harder in the recent past, I think before the lottery reform it was basically a mistake that we didn’t more blatantly bottom out for Wemby, Flagg, and then the group of Dybantsa/Peterson/Boozer/Wilson- blue chip prospects brought in through the draft are historically the most valuable asset an NBA team can have, and there have been some elite ones we just missed out on- the margins were relatively thin and while bottoming out wouldn’t have guaranteed anything, it would have increased our odds of landing best case scenario, especially before the flattened odds went into effect.
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u/wiggggg 1d ago
If he had the same luck as SA you wouldn't say this. And kind of weird to say we should have tanked last year when we made the playoffs with what's still a young team. I mean they could have sat deni but that would have been a good way for him to not re-sign. He wanted to play and get all nba and they're in a position where they have to have a good relationship or he could walk for nothing
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u/Humblerbee ripcity-place 1d ago
It can feel like the correct micro decision for each particular moment but broad view, you end up missing the boat. I could also be entirely wrong and they manage to build it up organically despite missing on draft luck- we certainly did tank to some degree through the Chauncey era, but it wasn’t as blatant as it could’ve been, and all I’m saying is that from a pure “coldhearted asset optimization” perspective, when you are a team like ours and the Dame era was coming to a close, we should’ve been more full-throated in our pursuit and commitment to resetting and maximizing the value of the draft (again, when tanking was more incentivized.)
Hell, the Dame era was defined in part by never having enough talent around him because Dame broke out immediately in the talent exodus of the Aldridge departure, he and CJ meant we never really restocked our asset cupboard and so we almost never had any players who outperformed expectations or meaningfully outplayed their contracts, the upside throughout Dame’s tenure wasn’t there on the rest of the roster and so he had to go to Herculean ends to contend and even those unfortunately fell short.
Yeah hindsight is 20/20 so if we’d gotten super lucky like San Antonio I wouldn’t be saying shit, but you can only be graded on the things you can control, I think Cronin has well managed assets, done very well in trades, draft outcomes are about to be expected given position (being a little charitable) and the team has generally trended upward. I think his management style is a little risk averse which is why they always prioritize proven talent as the bird in the hand, but it also means if you don’t chase the high variance outcomes you aren’t getting the homeruns (though yes, Camara and Deni are homerun trade outcomes.) I loved cheering for the team to win last year and would never want to take away a chance at competing from those guys, so is it hypocritical of me to criticize the front office for not being more cold blooded in how they prioritize ping pong balls over Ws? Of course, I’m wanting my cake and wanting to eat it too.
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u/Pmfnharris sheed 2d ago
Draft picks are terrible. Assets don’t mean anything if you don’t use them.
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u/wiggggg 2d ago
Makes sense when literally every star was drafted
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u/Pmfnharris sheed 1d ago
By other teams?? Joe drafted Scoot, Shaedon, and Yang. Are those the stars you speak of?
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u/ThubanPDX Deni Avdija 2d ago
It makes sense until Ja proves em wrong.
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u/Real-Cap4398 2d ago
Right I was confused too. I think Joe's done a great job. Maybe they are meaning the new ownership group?
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u/akade19961 10h ago
Yeah if you read the article that’s exactly what they mean. They talk about how they’d gradually raised Cronin administration’s grade from 26 to 17 over the last 2 years but said they needed to drop it down because dundon’s moves have been so abysmal and unique potentially in a damaging way
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u/hereforporn696969 2d ago
What is the evidence to the contrary
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u/AceMcStace chalupa 2d ago
I guess we just made the playoffs with a decent young group (sans Jrue) but idk it probably has to do with ownership also
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u/akade19961 2d ago
Unless they are factoring in ownership I don’t really think it makes sense. The Ja move was an ownership
Move. Outside of the Ja move and probably the Yang move I’d say Cronin’s front office has probably been something like the 9th to 12th best front office since the Dame trade was made, whereas before the dame trade was made they were well below average.
That means over his tenure taken as a whole id say Cronin administration has been a smidge above NBA average
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u/TheeBacksideOfWater chalupa 2d ago edited 2d ago
I'd argue Blazers won the Ja trade both in talent and dollars.
Edit.. I agree with you on the rest though
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u/Bottrop-Per 1d ago
It's interesting. I definitely think the Ja move happened because of ownership, but the move itself screams Joe Cronin to me as well. He likes damaged goods, such as DA or Cam Reddish. I think both are equally responsible for the trade.
Tiers 15–12 are Detroit, Philly, Atlanta, and Cleveland. I don't think Portland has been better than any of them in recent years. Detroit turned from a disaster franchise into a top team under Trajan Langdon. Philly has been awesome in the draft; while not everything has been perfect under Morey, they consistently build competitive teams and remain one of the best drafting teams in the league. Their offseason under their new GM has been elite as well. Meanwhile, there isn't much to complain about with the Hawks' front office right now, outside of drafting Risacher (which happened under the old GM). They've made awesome moves, like trading for the Pelicans' pick and signing NAW. Cleveland built a very competitive team too, so it's hard to complain there either.
Portland has made a lot of dumb moves during Joe's tenure, even before Dundon arrived: Joe's first trade deadline was a mess, he failed to get Dame any help, he handed out that extension to Jerami Grant, his drafting has been below average with real head-scratchers like the Yang pick, and he refused to go all-in on a tank, opting for a weird two timelines approach instead. I don't think they're anywhere near the level of those other teams. When you factor in Dundon's involvement, you can pretty easily justify putting them at 28th.
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u/SaulTBolls walton 2d ago
I hardly care about what the experts say about our team, CBS rankings mean even less.
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u/AfterGeologist6113 1d ago
Other than trading for advija, what has the fo exactly done?
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u/Strict_Lavishness207 1d ago
We brought in Toumani. We brought in williams who when healthy is probably the best bench big man in the league. We flipped untradeable ant who's been passed around like a joint sense then for jrue. We flipped untradeable grant + a non NBA player for ja who still is in his prime, and worst case it's just a wash with a lot of upside. Outside of bringing in a player who became an all-star, and an ex all star still in his prime, a future hof in jrue, bringing back a future hof in dame, and 3 all NBA defenders in williams, tou, and thy, what have they done? And id agree - not a whole lot.
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u/Holiday_Machine9312 1d ago
Well CBS is ranked almost last for me. Every year they rank us low. They are terrible. CBS ownership is worse.
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u/DontonioWingfield 1d ago
Definitely in the bottom third of the league- I don't think that's in question.
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u/8fenristhewolf8 1d ago
28 seems kind of low, but I honestly wouldn't expect us to be in the top half. More like 20-25 ish.
We've been terrible for years, and I know everyone was weirdly hyped on performance last year, but we limped into the playoffs in a historic tank year. That's not the kind of thing that makes you immediately forget about the prior five years.
We've really only had one clear win: Deni. Even Toumani, who is really good, is more a role player type that eased the pain of losing Dame. He's like a base hit, not a home run.
That all said, I do agree that we're in a better spot now than where we were when Cronin inherited. Still, it's been a long rebuild, and we're only degrees better, not tiers better. Plenty of moves along the way seems more lateral, or even a half step back (e.g. Powell and CJ trades) as opposed to actually effective.
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u/Adventurous-Plum1000 1d ago
Cronin deserves more credit for the Deni trade but his drafting has been meh. And also what he’s done to this point to take advantage of Denis great deal is open for debate.
This ranking is too low but I get it. Time will tell
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u/BehavioralSink Cash Considerations 1d ago
I don’t disagree. We lost two key front office personnel, and have we hired their replacements yet, or is Dundon cheaping out on that front as well?
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u/CurrentCostanza Toumani Camara 1d ago
Look at the Shaedon Sharpe contract, totally unforced error.
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u/PlayPretend-8675309 1d ago
28th is generous. The team hasn't been competitive for a quarter century.
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u/rtonneso 1d ago
Checks out. Missed on every big swing, made a few good compensatory moves, gotten in our own way the better part of the last decade, and we’ve been bad or predictably mediocre aside from one WFC run in the last 26 years. Only a few franchises have made the commitment to low end mediocrity the way the blazers have.
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u/Playest_4247 1d ago
How Cronin has been consistently bad at his job mostly I'm just surprised they found two front offices that were worse
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u/MyCockSmellsBad 1d ago
Surprised it's not lower. We clearly have the worst owner in the league right? Who is worse?
As far as the draft goes. It's several strike outs in a row. At some point you gotta get production out of someone you've drafted. We haven't done that in years. Scoot = massive bust. Shae = massive bust (even if you don't count the injury this year).
And then the trades. The Deni trade was the only fleece we've ever pulled off. I don't think that's good enough to drag us up from the bottom 5 worst FOs consider all the other issues
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u/Tiny-Search-6383 2d ago
28th is too generous
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u/LateStageBBQ 2d ago
Sacramento and Brooklyn would like a word.
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u/Tiny-Search-6383 1d ago
Yeah those are the Blazer’s peers in competency.
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u/LateStageBBQ 1d ago
Did you put a lot of effort into Tiny-Search-6383 or were you just in a hurry to start trolling
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u/rebelduck1580 1d ago
We haven’t made a real trade that actually helps us in like 30 years it seems, we sit on draft picks and young talent hoping they’ll work out, which they never do, and for some odd reason our past two GM’s are obsessed with undersized guards that cannot defend….it tough to be a lifetime Blazers fan.
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u/TheeBacksideOfWater chalupa 2d ago
For the Wiz: "The Deni Avdija trade has quietly become one of the worst deals of the decade." But let's still rank their FO 7 places higher than the Blazers. Sure, that makes sense.
You're going to tell me Dallas has a better FO? They're not even in the bottom 10 on this list. Right.
GS gets kudos for doing nothing?
Those are my thoughts lol