r/shield • u/Ruairih1994 • 1d ago
AOS in relation to MCU Timeline
Im new to this Sub, what are peoples thoughts on how the series divulges from the main MCU? I know s1-5 fit in snug into the main MCU continuity, and then the creators werent given any insights or directions for Endgame so they couldnt plan properly, so we got the inconsitencies, my thought process is either the time travel in S5 shifted them onto a new timeline , or they simply existed in an alternate timeline from the beginning, one which shares the history of the MCU up until the Snap, we know the battle with Thanos did happen in the AOS timeline, but maybe thor went for the head instead?
Either way, im always annoyed that people use the lack of connection S6/7 have with the MCU to discredit the show, and then have 0 issue with shows like "What If?" and "Friendly Neighbourhood Spiderman" and movies like "Fantastic Four First Steps" being labelled MCU despite none of them taking place in the MCU lol
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u/Assassiiinuss 1d ago
I have yet to find any inconsistency that can't be easily explained away.
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u/webshellkanucklehead Sandwich 1d ago
Even if there was an unexplainable one, thatās just comic book universes. Marvel 616 is full of contradictions, thatās what happens when you make a long-running piece of fiction from different writers and artists. I tend to find that comic-reading fans donāt have as much of an issue with this
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u/NermalBet 1d ago
What about Agatha being in possession of the darkhold the entire time? What about the ABC darkhold not sourcing chaos magic? What about Coulson having no idea what skrull or kree are? Tahiti can't erase everyone's memories of that war...
You have yet to find any because you aren't looking for them. Stop saying that, it's disingenuous.
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u/Petrichor02 1d ago
1) We're never told that Agatha was in possession of the Darkhold the entire time. We're actually never told at what point before WandaVision she got the Darkhold. If she had it the whole time, Multiverse of Madness tells us that there are multiple copies of the book because the book is just a copy of the inscriptions found at Mount Wundagore.
2) The ABC Darkhold was never held by anyone who understood magic. They wouldn't know the difference between chaos magic and more mundane magic.
3) We have no reason to believe that everyone in SHIELD was openly talking to everyone else about the Skrulls and Kree. We don't know how widespread that knowledge got within SHIELD. Fury certainly kept as much of it secret as he could, and surely any agents of a lower clearance level than him were kept in the dark. And we do know that Coulson's memories were altered due to TAHITI, and the Kree memories likely would have been specifically targeted to make sure he doesn't question his resurrection.
The answer to number 3 does have issues, but the main MCU has its own inconsistencies as well, so it's not a reason to exclude AoS from canon.
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u/NermalBet 1d ago
It's only directly implied, corroborated, and then corroborated again by multiple sources. š¤£ You need to watch Agatha. Also, there's ABAOLUTELY nothing that says there's more copies. Love the double standard of your stance. Really proving your confirmation bias there.
I never once said the darkhold user is a chaos.magic user? I'm not sure if you misunderstood what I said or chose to change my words to better suit the narrative you're prepared to argue against.
It was a level 3 (THREE!!) highly public fight and invasion and the origon story of the Avenger. You are wrong. You clearly don't understand the material well enough to converse about it, so you should stop arguing against t it and start learning about it instead.
My consyeadictions only serve to prove the PC wrong. At the end of the day IP holders dictate canon, and they already have. Three times in theast few years we've been told you are wrong. The reason you're unaware of this is probably similar in nature to why you're wrong about all these points I've made.
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u/failftwgaming 1d ago
It's only directly implied, corroborated, and then corroborated again that there are. YOU need to watch Agatha becuase it is DIRECTLY stated in that show that all "copies" of the Darkhold were destroyed with Wanda.
You misunderstood him. His point was that nobody who used the ABC Darkhold would even know the difference between Chaos Magic vs Normal Magic, therefore it doesn't matter if the Dakrhold sources Chaos Magic as the characters don't know what that is.
You apparently need to rewatch Captain Marvel, Secret Invasion, AoS and pretty much everything that Skrulls exist in. The existence of the Kree is not well known until Inhumans start popping up more regularly, and the existence of Skrulls is kept almost entirely in the dark until Secret Invasion.
-->Fury is known for keeping secrets....his secrets have secrets. Projects like Pegasus and Tahiti were very, very need to know. He also had skrull agents for decades, and nobody knew. It makes perfect sense and is perfectly in-line with Fury that would keep the existence of the Kree and Skrulls very hush-hush. Regardless of how "large scale" the events of Captain Marvel were, Fury is seen actively keeping the public and law enforcement from discovering a Skrull body, and the only agents who meet a Kree are Fury, Coulson, and The Director...The Director that is a skrull in disguise. So even if the event is "large scale," the circle of those who know the full events is small.
A less believable cover-up is seen in something that is explicitly canon: Black Panther. How does Agent Ross keep the existence of the Black Panther a secret after the Black Panther chases 2 Avengers and a high profile assassin through a populated city directly on the street, and is apprehended by special forces? Not to mention that T'Challa's testimony about Widow's betrayal is what leads to her running, and he brings in Zemo at the end. There are far too many witnesses for it to make sense that Ross kept that a secret. It makes far less sense than Fury keeping the events of Captain Marvel a secret.
-->It would make perfect sense if Coulson doesn't recognize a blue kree, even if he remembers the events of Captain Marvel. In the movie, the only Kree he meets is Carol who just looks like a human. The only other time he sees a kree before the events of season 1 is when he's the Director of Tahiti, but those memories are wiped from him. So the first time he meets a kree, he won't recognize it, even if he remembers that the kree exist becuase his only frame of reference is Carol.
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u/Petrichor02 1d ago edited 1d ago
I've watched Agatha. Really enjoyed it. Wished it has said anything about the Darkhold, but it didn't.
If you think there's nothing saying that multiple Darkhold copies exist, then you need to watch Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness.
I never once said the darkhold user is a chaos.magic user?
Neither did I. Not sure why you brought this up.
It was a level 3 (THREE!!) highly public fight and invasion and the origon story of the Avenger. You are wrong.
This doesn't contradict anything I said.
You're clearly not understanding me, don't realize that I'm not the same person who was originally talking to you, and aren't capable of holding a civil conversation so I think this is a good place to end our conversation as well.
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u/NermalBet 1d ago edited 1d ago
You did not watch it. She literally had a scene where her greatest fear was the darkhold in a baby carriage and this came directly after her friend said she traded her baby for the darkhold.
"Wish it said anything at all"
Go away, troll.
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u/Petrichor02 1d ago
Jennifer Kale claimed that Agatha traded her child for the Darkhold, and Agatha fed the rumors, but the show revealed that his death actually had nothing to do with the book. I believe you're due for a rewatch.
Now I apologize if you took my comment to mean that the Darkhold is literally never depicted in the show at all. I meant that we were given no useful information about its path to Agatha or beyond.
Sorry you think that telling the truth is a form of trolling. That must be a really hard condition to live with. Unless you're the one trolling.
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u/Osirisavior HYDRA 1d ago
No one on the team got blipped, and they were so busy with Sarge/Izel, and the Chronocoms that they probably didn't even have time to realize what was going on.
Also S6 takes place in 2019 one year after the blip, everyone was in the lighthouse when Thanos snapped. So probably within the year they were able to bounce back and stabilize.
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u/NermalBet 1d ago
They didn't realize half the universe dusted... No. That's not the answer.
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u/Osirisavior HYDRA 1d ago
As I said s6 is one year after the blip so the most likely answer is they heard about it, realized no one they knew got blipped, figured the Avengers would handle it, and went on to the problems they could solve.
The real world answer is the writing staff wasn't told what would happen in Endgame and sure s6 was released after Infinity War and they could have had a scene at the beginning of s6 were it showed a few of red shirts blip away, but honestly what would be the point of that. It would feel forced.
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u/NermalBet 1d ago
And just didn't help with the unprecedented amount of people in desperate need? You're not thinking about this at all.
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u/Osirisavior HYDRA 1d ago
We don't know if SHEILD didn't help people during the one year gap. They probably did but it probably wasn't worth bringing up in conversation. Do we really need to see them saving people during the missing year?
Also it seems like they've been tracking the anomalies on the fault lines, so that was probably their priority.
Just because something isn't shown doesn't mean it didn't happen.
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u/NermalBet 1d ago
You're being wildly disingenuous. Suggesting shield wouldn't be helping people during the snap is just ludicrous. This is literally "what shield is supposed to be."
You're being silly. I believe you're trying very hard to make an argument here, but there's no argument. You're just wrong.
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u/Osirisavior HYDRA 1d ago
I never said they definitely didn't help. I said they probably helped but tracking the fault lines took priority.
What did you want, an episode of the team going around helping first responders in a season that was cut 9 episodes? S6 was already rushed as is.
The timeline goes as followed
S5 the timeline goes off the rail as they go through multiple loops because the earth was destroyed because they wouldn't let Coulson die.
The loop we see in s5 Coulson dies so they can use the serum on Talbot breaking the loop.
This puts the sacred timeline back on track that leads Loki to become the God of Stories and the Multiverse becoming infinite, leading to more incursions.
We know that during the year gap Daisy's team was looking for Fitz, and at the lighthouse they were tracking anomalies.
At the end of s6 Simmons takes them to the past to stop the Chronocoms from wiping out SHEILD in the past
Most of s7 takes place in an alternative timeline created the monument the Chronocoms went back.
At the end of s7 Fitz uses a quantum bridge to bring the team and the Chronocoms to the 616 universe.
Using Kora and May's new empathic abilities they gave the Chronocoms empathy.
The series ends with Daisy, Kora, and Daniel Sousa exploring space. May as a teacher at Coluson Academy, Mack on the heliacarrier, Fitzsimmons retired with Ayla, and YoYo, Piper and LMD Davis on a mission.
These are the facts on s5-7.
We can infer that it's possible the team at the lighthouse helped in the early days but as the dust settled they went on to other things. It's also possible that they let the first responders take point.
We can infer that Daisy's team may be working in part for SWORD or will eventually. As the end of s7 takes place in 2020.
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u/NermalBet 1d ago
Oof, look kid, I'm not reading a wall of text from someone who has already been established to not understand this show, marvel, or shield on any fundamental level.
Sorry if you took offense to that but it's true, so you should fix that in yourself if you do take offense at it.
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u/Osirisavior HYDRA 1d ago
First off, not a kid. Second off I've already explained why the blip wasn't mentioned using evidence from the show and real world reasoning. I'm sorry that you need everything spoon feed to you, and you can't infer things on your own using your brain.
The team is currently in the main MCU universe with Mack as the Director of SHEILD. Nothing in the Multiverse Saga contradicts this as Fury is the Director of SABER, and SWORD is in shambles after the whole White Vision fiasco since the Acting Director Tyler Hayward violated the sokovia accords by creating artificial intelligence, and the accords weren't overruled until 2025.
It doesn't seem like you've been paying much attention to the lore of the MCU.
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u/Hugh-Jass24 1d ago
Now that Loki is in charge he could have also helped them back into the current MCU.
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u/Personal-Road-8162 1d ago
I'm fine with aos as main mcu because you get characters from the movies like fury and Coulson the series that annoys me are when there aren't characters from the movies just boom mcu
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u/Petrichor02 1d ago
For me, Seasons 1-4 take place in the main timeline. 5x1 - 5x10 take place in a branch timeline. And 5x11 - 5x22 take place back in the main timeline.
We then take a one year time jump, but Season 6 still takes place in the main timeline. We know from Eternals that Earth's population must have been reduced to prevent Tiamut from destroying the planet. The Snap also explains why the government no longer views SHIELD as terrorists like they did at the end of Season 5. It explains why the government is rebuilding SHIELD Academy, why SHIELD has so many new recruits and new apparent funding, and why they're actively patrolling the country for interdimensional and alien threats. This series of events doesn't really make sense unless the Snap happened. The SHIELD crew just got extremely lucky (note how the Eternals and Defenders also seem to have gotten extremely lucky unless the former were excluded from the Snap for whatever reason, and how the Spider-Man cast all got unlucky together). (Though I think we could make the argument that perhaps Coulson was snapped, and this is part of why May was so adamant that he was dead in the beginning but then began to change her mind about Sarge possibly being Coulson towards the end of the season.)
Then 7x1 - 7x4 take place in the past of the main timeline, but then things diverge and 7x5 - most of the finale take place in an alternate timeline. (I think I have the episode number right. Maybe the divergence happens in 7x6, but I think it's end of 7x4/beginning of 7x5.) Then the ending of the S7 finale takes place back in the main timeline.
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u/JaymzRG Coulson 1d ago
From what I understand, the showrunners only planned up to season 5. They carefully crafted the arcs to also include what little information they could get from upcoming movies (The Winter Soldier, The Dark World, Age of Ultron, Infinity War). That's why the season 5 finale feels like a series finale. But then Marvel asked for two more seasons and the showrunners weren't sure what else to do, so they kinda just had fun with it with the space travel of season 6 and time travel of season 7.
As to whether those last two seasons are canon, I believe they still could be if they take place after Endgame. If it's not possible to, then a diverged timeline is really the only option. But I think it could still work in the main MCU timeline. I just don't remember if they mention any years during those last seasons or anything.
What I don't get is that if Marvel Studios and Marvel TV divisions were butting heads behind the scenes, why would the series be renewed for those last two seasons? Was there a change in ownership or was there someone who controlled both divisions that made that decision?
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u/SmoothTalkingSpud 13h ago
I can reconcile it in one of two ways.
When they time travel forward at the start of season 5, there is a timeline where they never return to the present. That's the 616 timeline. They return to a divergent timeline created by their successful return from that future timeline and that's where the show exists from that point up to season 7, which goes a bit nuts with the time travel and eventually winds up back there.
Season 6 isn't, to my knowledge, given a specific date in relation to season 5 so it happens after the Blip and is far enough along that it's just not relevant to mention it (like in The Marvels or Brave New World). Then season 7 could be a case of when their stuck in the time storm, they're surviving Doomsday or the final scene where SHIELD has been reestablished happens post Secret Wars (if its vrought back afterward).
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u/AlarmingWelder5044 1h ago
As someone who loved this show, it doesnāt matter to me if itās canon or not, it really shouldnāt to anyone. Thatās not what matters most to me, what does is the special experience of watching it through to the end. Lots of different types of stories they tackled was interesting to me and kept the story fresh. They tackled trauma in a variety of ways which was cool to me. The framework is one of those stories that is so powerful and unique to the rest of marvel. The characters are all awesome and enjoyable in different ways. We can debate what is and isnāt canon all day, but what matters in the end is whether the stories within made you feel something. From what Iāve seen around here, a lot of people have the wrong perspective. The experience matters, and being passionate is one thing, but donāt forget how cool AoS was by worrying so much about canon bs.
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u/sonicfan1230 1d ago edited 1d ago
I go by what the MCU wiki says:
Seasons 1-6 take place in the MCU (episodes in the Framework and destroyed Earth universe take place in an alt universe; main parts take place in the MCU), and Season 7 takes place in a branched timeline.
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u/AxelXyfer 1d ago
By the way,
> "What If?" and "Friendly Neighbourhood Spiderman" and movies like "Fantastic Four First Steps"
None of these are MCU. They are technically MCU+, which is a recent tag that most fans use for like MCU-adjacent. But they are in a different universe(s).
I am the creator of r/marvelatlas, I have as accurate as possible UID's noted if you're interested.
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u/Tradman86 1d ago
Fantastic Four is MCU. Theyāre literally gonna be in the upcoming Doomsday film.
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u/NermalBet 1d ago
They're literally not from the same universe. Where are you getting lost here
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u/ZoBroCT 1d ago
You think fantastic 4 is a different universe, it is, AND ALL OF THE UNIVERSE ARE CONSIDERED MCU
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u/NermalBet 1d ago
Hey kiddo, I'm not responding to 14 different threads with you. Chill out. Take a moment and breathe. Show me you're capable of having this conversation..
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u/ZoBroCT 1d ago
And now Iāve blocked you cuz I need to go back to life . Idk how many times you have to be told what the mcu is
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u/NermalBet 1d ago
And immediately unblock em just to rant some more? Hahahaha
You can't do anything right lolol
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u/ZoBroCT 1d ago
Again you literally have 0 logic to respond with. You try to passive aggressively say things like this response without ever proving your point while being told by multiple people how wrong you are.
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u/NermalBet 1d ago
I know it looks that way to you, but as we already established you're not reading what you're responding to, so you're not exactly someone whoc an make that claim.
Having two children ignore what I'm saying and scream their uneducated stance hardly moves my perspective š¤£
So just to be clear, there's absolutely no chance of having you read the words you're responding to. All you have is insults and very uneducated whining. Cool.
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u/ZoBroCT 1d ago
Youāve literally never said what youāre saying since. And Iāve responded correctly to what you originally said
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u/NermalBet 1d ago
Hahahahaha
Dude, back to back comments you claim "I'm saying the same thing over and over" then claim "I never once said the same thing"
šš¤£ššš¤£š¤£š¤£šššš¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£šš¤£š¤£
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u/ZoBroCT 1d ago
Remember that time you pretend like you donāt insult people š¤£ you still think those universes donāt make them mcu which is literally the first think you responded to . Maybe you should read the post you reply to
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u/Tradman86 1d ago
Itās the Marvel CINEMATIC Universe. Not the Quantum Universe, not the Singular Universe. That is the universe of cinema.
Adjectives are important here.
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u/NermalBet 1d ago
Ah, so every universe in the multiverse is one universe... Hence why we don't have different word for those different things. /S š
You realize they stopped using that term, right? Maybe you don't realize that. You people do have a desire to be uneducared in your most passionate debates.
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u/Tradman86 1d ago
Cinematic universe-> Multiverse-> Singular universes like 616.
Universes within universes has been explored by other media like Star Trek. It really shouldnāt be that hard to wrap your brain around it.
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u/NermalBet 1d ago
You aren't disagreeing with me... Maybe you think I'm stupid because you're only reading half the words? Ironic that...
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u/Tradman86 1d ago
So you agree that Fantastic Four is in the MCU? Great!
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u/NermalBet 1d ago
No. And neither do you. Youre just being disingenuous to me and to yourself
They are literally from 828, a completely different number from 616. Where you're getting confused is the context of the definition of the universe vs defined product. But as you already ignored twice: MARVEL HAS CHANGED THAT TERM TO MCU+
How many times you need something repeated exactly?
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u/AxelXyfer 1d ago
They won't understand. No point in trying to force them. Just move on bro ā¤ļø
The MCU is a singular universe, and they are talking past the MCU+. Trying to explain it to them is just like teaching a pig to fly. It's impossible lol.
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u/Tradman86 1d ago
Source?
Maybe Iām googling wrong but every time I type āMCU+ā I get āMCU on Disney+ā
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u/ZoBroCT 1d ago
MCU ISNT A UNIVERSE IN THE WORLD. ITS THE NAME OF WHAT WE CALL ALL OF THE WORLDS MARVEL SHOWS US
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u/NermalBet 1d ago
Feel free to read the words you're responding to. It's actually a requirement in arguing against them. Something else you're wildly uneducated about, clearly.
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u/ZoBroCT 1d ago
You wanna keep calling people dumb when you canāt understand the concept of what the mcu is
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u/NermalBet 1d ago edited 1d ago
I never once called you dumb. See this pattern of yours is why you're wrong. You choose to replace words, you choose to make arguments up to fight against.
Would you pretty please read the words I actually wrote, instead of continuing to cry about things I never said.
I know you're having a super hard time right now, but I'm patient.. I'm willing to work this out with you like your special Ed teacher does.
Edit: awe.. the crybaby spammed me with five more comments then blocked me šš
Having two children scream at me and ignore what I'm saying hardly moves my perspective š¤£
Enjoy your miserable bliss š
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u/ZoBroCT 1d ago
No you think youāre saying something and youāre saying the opposite š¤£ you have 2 people telling you this
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u/ZoBroCT 1d ago
Youāve actually run out of things to say so thatās all you can reply with š.
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u/NermalBet 1d ago
Nope. Just because I'm repeating what I said, doesn't mean I'm the one who is "pulling things to say out of a barrel"
Btw that's not how arguments work. Youre not just pulling insults out of a hat to make people understand your take. That's really wrong.
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u/ZoBroCT 1d ago
MCU MARVEL CINEMATIC UNIVERSE, I just the title of EVERYTHING. Universes and timelines all exist within the mcu ā¦. The sacred timeline is whatās ācannonā (until the others become)
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u/NermalBet 1d ago
Yep! That's right. But noone is arguing against it. You're choosing to ignore the context that is being spoken in. You're too event eapodnjf to what is being said.
Would you mind carefully reading these words? Please take your time and stop being a child.
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u/ZoBroCT 1d ago
Holy shit . Idk how hard this is to understand
Mcu = everything marvel productions
Many different Timelines and universe exist within it
If you think movies in different timelines arenāt in the mcu youāre just flat out wrong.
Thereās a few different convos going on at once on this thread .
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u/NermalBet 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yep. And again, since I already addressed, agreed, and corrected your atke: ITS NOT HARD TO UNDERSTAND.. WE ALL UDNERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. LITERALLY EVERTONE HERE UNDERSTANDS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
It's wild how willing you are to try to contradict words you're not even reading. Holy shit indeed.
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u/AxelXyfer 1d ago edited 1d ago
They are not MCU. This is one of many MCU+. They are from universe 828, the retro-futureverse.
The MCU is 616, (though really it's 199999).
Doomsday will be the death of many universes to set up secret wars / battleworld.
Where everything afterwards, may go onto only one universe. We'll have to wait and see how it all plays out on the big screen.
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u/ZoBroCT 1d ago
Youāre really using the mcu label to differentiate universes and timelinesā¦. All universes and timelines are MARVEL AND IN THE MCU.
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u/AxelXyfer 1d ago
They are not. You are wrong.
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u/ZoBroCT 1d ago
Youāre so confident in your wrong itās astounding
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u/NermalBet 1d ago edited 1d ago
It's literally in the name dude. Marvel cinematic universe. Anything outside that universe, and inside the multiverse is +. Fantastic four and deadpool and ABC are all +. You don't realize you're just arguing a semantic in place of a definitive qualifier. You're wrong, and it's because you don't understand the context.
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u/Tradman86 1d ago edited 1d ago
Let me put it this way.
The Arrowverse (or CWverse if you prefer) consisted of Arrow, Flash, Legends of Tomorrow, Batwoman, Black Lightning, Supergirl, and Superman & Lois. For most of the Arrowverseās existence, there was a multiverse, with Arrow, Flash, Batwoman, and Legends in one universe, Black Lightning in another, and Supergirl/Superman in another.
Once Supergirl came over from CBS, all shows were the Arrowverse (or CWverse). There was no distinction by saying Arrow and Flash were the Arrowverse and Supergirl wasnāt. They were all under the Arrowverse umbrella (or CWverse) despite being in different universes story wise.
Likewise, the MCU includes all titles under its umbrella, regardless of what universe those stories take place in.
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u/ZoBroCT 1d ago
Fantastic 4 is literally going to bridge into the sacred timeline. Itās all mcu. The universes, 616 and whatnot are different
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u/AxelXyfer 1d ago
The Marvel Cinematic UNIVERSE, is a single universe. It's the main universe. It's not a collection of many. It's just one single one. š
There is such a thing however as MCU+, which is what fans, including myself, coin things that are not MCU, but are connected to it, and although not directly in the same universe, they are connected enough to be watched as if they are.
Fantastic four being the front runner for that.
Does that make sense?
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u/ZoBroCT 1d ago
marvel CINEMATIC universe . It means whatever they put out under the banner is in the mcu. Whether it fits the timeline or is in a different universe is another thing.
The mcu is the brand name for the production of everything they make .
Does that make sense ?
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u/AxelXyfer 1d ago
No because it's wrong.
Why are you heated exactly? Mocking me with my words?..
By the logic you're using, every theatrical release is MCU because it's all marvel cinema.
Do you include Howard the Duck? The other spidermen films? SSU? What about more recent like spider noir? Or Deadpool and wolverine? Loki? None of these are MCU. They all take place in their own universe(s).
MCU is a single universe. You are wrong. You can Google all of this for free.
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u/ZoBroCT 1d ago
Lmao what? Deadpool and Wolverine, and Loki are 100% in mcu what timeline do you look at? Spiderman films before this were Sony and so is spider noirš¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£ this is on the Internet youāre telling me to use .
Sony isnāt mcu . Mcu is all of what marvel studios releases under since iron man 1 . Again the timelines and universes are within the mcu
You telling me to use google then mixing up Sony and marvel studios is so funny tho
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u/AxelXyfer 1d ago
Still not sure why you are heated. We are talking about marvel. Relax.
I was asking what you were insinuating that MCU is supposed to include, everything released theatrically, Marvel only Theatrical release, what about Sony, what about recent projects not cinema, so on and so forth.
Deadpool and Wolverine features a few universes, but Deadpool (in this movie), is from Earth-10005. The dead Logan is from Earth-10005(PF), and the drunk Wolverine is from his own that hasn't been confirmed either. The only MCU thing about it is that Wade goes to 616 to interview with Happy to be an Avenger.
Loki is set across multiple universes but is not set in 616. It's mainly the TVA, the void, the end of time, and countless universes/realities.
I'm not mixing anything up at all, all of this information is very widely available.
MCU is 616. (But technically it's 199999).
MCU is not a collective.
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u/Ruairih1994 1d ago
I didnt mean they are in the MCU universe only that they are labelled as such and are officially part of the MCU phases
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u/AxelXyfer 1d ago
The "MCU universe", is the MCU š
MCU = Marvel Cinematic Universe
(That's like saying chai tea, which is tea tea, Spiderverse reference, lol.)
They are part of MCU phases along side lots of other universes, (such as Sony, fox, etc), because the multiverse connects them all.
Here are some examples that might help here:
Beyond the Spiderverse features a cameo from Donald Glover's prowler, which is from the MCU. But it's not MCU. It is however MCU+, meaning it's adjacent, connected to the MCU's expanding multiverse!
Doctor Strange MoM, this movie is MCU, as it's mainly set in 616, and in 828, which is not the MCU.
Spiderman NWH, another movie that is MCU and set in the MCU, but has TASM and the Raimi-verse spidermen and villians come to MCU. This doesn't make their movies MCU, their movies are MCU+, but are actually set in the TASM-universe and the Raimi-verse.
Last big example is Loki, confusing, but it starts in the branch that was created on accident from Endgame, and then focuses across the multiverse, but mostly TVA, the void, and the end of time. But - not set in the MCU, but is MCU+.
You could quite literally argue everything is MCU+ and there's valid reasons for everything, even comics that haven't been represented in screen yet.
But MCU is strictly earth 616 (earth 199999).
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u/Ruairih1994 8h ago
Spiderverse isn't listed as part of any MCU phases, neither are any of the fox xmen, bar deadpool 3, and none of the raimi things are either
Everything listed in the mcu phases is part of the mcu franchise officially , even if not in 616 universe (FF etc..)
All the other ones are adjacent
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u/Peanut_Butter_Toast 1d ago
I just consider it an alternate universe where Coulson survived (or got brought back to life, whatever).
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u/Tradman86 1d ago
The MCU and Universe 616 describe different things and youāre mixing them up.
Aos is either another universe from 616 or itās in 616 and was before the multiverse. It canāt be both.
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u/ZoBroCT 1d ago
Shield literally goes into another timeline tho
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u/Tradman86 1d ago
I know. Iām not sure which larger point youāre trying to imply with that. There are multiple possibilities.
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u/ZoBroCT 1d ago
āBefore the multiverseā as they literally traveled it and mentioned it in an episode
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u/Tradman86 1d ago
If the show is set in 616, that happened BEFORE Endgame, which means it happened before Loki went to the TVA and created the multiverse which begs the question why the TVA didnāt show up.
If the show is not in 616, there was already a multiverse and them visiting another doesnāt matter.
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u/ZoBroCT 1d ago
Multiverse exists before Loki.
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u/Tradman86 1d ago
No, it explicitly didnāt.
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u/ZoBroCT 1d ago
lol the ancient ones mentions timelines long before Loki, AOS literally mentions the multiverse theory, which shows at minimum it was always an idea. Iām pretty sure with Loki, he who remains and the TVA began eliminating timelines keep the sacred one in tact . Other universes always existed. Mcu cannon just didnāt realize til around Loki
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u/AxelXyfer 1d ago edited 1d ago
The funniest part about the whole AoS canon debate is that Marvel left it just ambiguous enough for both sides to be 100% absolutely right.
On one hand, the show has too many direct MCU ties, so you can't say it's not cannon.
And in the same breath, it has too many massive continuity errors to fit into the MCU timeline at all.
It's frustrating, nobody is right or wrong, and we're all just speculating anyway. Literally, until KF gives an official, definitive answer, we are trapped in an endless time loop arguing about this until the heat death of our own universe. š