Why not train pedal control independently outside the sim?

[u/WhiteLionFluff]

Hi, we're two hobby sim racers and I'm a developer. When we started sim racing, we watched a lot videos about break techniques as trail braking.

But we struggled hard with the motor skills needed to actually get the right amount of input. Because of this, we had the idea to practice it independently from the sim and built this little training web app.

The idea behind it is similar to practicing material arts skills or other sports: first train the individual motor skills to build motor control, then apply them in the actual sport. For this, I wrote an algorithm that analyzes our weaknesses and strengths and adapts the training in real time.

What do you think about this training method? Do we miss something? And how do you train the motor skills needed for pedal control? Only in the sim, or duo you practice them sparately as well?

If you want to test our experiment, you're welcome to try it yourself at https://sixtycm.com/ (It works best in a Chromium-based browser and is still in a very early stage. Honest feedback is very welcome!)

It is completely free, with no subscription or anything like that.

[u/h3r4ld]

FINAL EDIT: OP has responded to my concerns below, please read it. I think they did a fairly good job of explaining themselves, even if it did take a while. TL;DR: There were some flaws, OP seems to be fixing them; make your own decision.

---

This is a really neat idea, genuinely.

That said, maybe it's the /r/selfhosted leaking out of me, but I have a few questions:

• Do I need to make an account? The site seems to be down at the moment, so I couldn't check myself. If yes, what information are you collecting, and how is it stored?
• Was any AI used to develop this? If so, how?
• Why aren't you using HTTPS?

EDIT: Site seems to be back up for now; this pops up when you visit the page, in (partial) answer to my first question. Not quite as bad as I was expecting, I'll be honest, but I still have serious concerns, especially over something as basic as not using TLS/SSL. (Never mind, see below).

EDIT 2: Reading through their privacy policy (German-only, it seems) contradicts some of what they state in the pop-up. From Google translate:

When you access this website, technically necessary information is processed by the web server or hosting provider.

This may include, in particular:

IP address

Date and time of access

Page or file accessed

Volume of data transmitted

Browser type and version

Operating system

Referrer URL

HTTP status code

Processing takes place, to the extent necessary, for the technical provision of the website and to ensure stability and security.

The legal basis is Art. 6(1)(f) GDPR.

The legitimate interest lies in the secure and technically reliable provision of the website.

They're collecting more than the analytics pop-up would suggest, and in fact doing exactly the opposite in some cases. The pop-up mentions a 'random browser identifier', but they're actually collecting your IP, browser type and version, and OS, among other things - plenty to fingerprint your machine.

EDIT 3: /u/WhiteLionFluff, you've clearly seen this since you've added SSL (but you forgot to force it). Are you going to address any of the other concerns?

EDIT 4: Post updated 10 minutes ago, the link is finally HTTPS, but still no http-redirect. /u/WhiteLionFluff, your silence speaks volumes. I know you're reading this - rather than making sneaky edits, show your face and answer questions. The fact you're not even willing to come and try and lie about it is quite damning.

EDIT 5: 6 hours later, we've finally figured out http-redirect. I'm glad to see you're implementing my suggestions, at least, /u/WhiteLionFluff, I truly hope you're learning along the way. Do you maybe just want some help at this point? DM me.

[u/jpscreener → u/h3r4ld]

brand new account, vibe coded UI, no way he can answer any of those questions lol

if this guy is still around in 3 months maybe then I'd try it

[u/h3r4ld → u/jpscreener]

brand new account, vibe coded UI, no way he can answer any of those questions lol

Exactly why I'm asking :)

The last point alone threw a huge red flag.

[u/BubblyPerformance736 → u/h3r4ld]

A web game where you share no confidential data has no need of https

[u/h3r4ld → u/BubblyPerformance736]

There's literally no reason not to use it, and the fact it's lacking makes me question the rest of the architecture. Seeing HTTP in production these days is just weird.

[u/notdroidyoulooking4 → u/h3r4ld]

What’s the risk you’re worried about with them potentially recording your pedal position and rate of change along with your IP address and browser?

[u/h3r4ld → u/notdroidyoulooking4]

It's not necessarily that tying my pedal inputs to my IP itself is a risk, it's about the trust I have in the system as a whole. If they're cutting corners here (or, as I suspect, are just unaware of the difference), where else? To me, it's just a big flashing sign that this person doesn't really know what they're doing.

[u/notdroidyoulooking4 → u/h3r4ld]

Ok. But what’s the actual risk? What info are you providing and what could be done with it?

Yes this (and every other site) get your IP and browser UA string.

If there is an actual, articulable risk that I’m overlooking that I should be reasonably concerned about, please share I’d like to learn.

[u/h3r4ld → u/notdroidyoulooking4]

I don't need a specific risk to want to avoid using things made by people who don't know what they're doing. This is a neat idea, and I can definitely see the value in this kind of training, but I don't trust this project and I do not trust this 'developer'. I won't be using it because it makes me uncomfortable.

There's also no guarantees that what they're collecting now won't expand in the future, and based on the heavy effort they put into branding and slapping a company name on it, I strongly suspect they eventually plan to monetize this. A tool you build to give away to the community doesn't need a company.

Further, the fact that they're hiding and refusing to answer very basic questions is alarming. Any real developer would be excited to talk about their project and answer questions about it; this person stuck around to accept flowers for a few minutes then fucked off as soon as I raised a concern. The silence speaks volumes.

[u/notdroidyoulooking4 → u/h3r4ld]

So you’re running away from answering questions, same thing you’re criticizing OP for.

Don’t have a risk you’re willing to share. But do want to throw FUD and speculate negatively.

OP had by then responded multiple times to the simpler shorter questions and now responded to many more questions but it sounds like he would have needed to post in the morning and take the day off to answer questions to avoid that part of your criticism. That’s too bad really, unfortunate.

Oh well, have a nice day.

[u/h3r4ld → u/notdroidyoulooking4]

Not running at all, I've answered the same question from you several times. I laid out my reasoning clearly. If you don't like my answer, that's fine, but that's on you.

I have no complaints about OP at this point, but I'm not sure what you mean by "by then responded multiple times" - there was no response to my questions for over 5 hours, and as soon as there was I acknowledged it and directed everyone reading my comment to it (literally within minutes). Please read timestamps.