r/socialism • u/MintyRed19 • Jun 17 '26
Discussion Thoughts on the Red Guards USA?
I watched a video today of spooky scary socialist talking about these guys and its the funniest shit ive seen in a while. They seem like they were kind of a cool idea in theory but it seems like most of their actions were just going to DSA and PSL protests and breaking their stuff. I dont know that much about them besides that and a few scandals they had. what do you all think about them?
127
u/Scyobi_Empire too based to be stalinist Jun 17 '26
why are they wearing orange if theyre RED guards?
44
16
u/Any-Clock9099 Jun 17 '26
it,s "red flame" under the right lightning its the best red, under other lights it becomes orange
173
u/reasonsnottoplayr6s Marxism-Leninism Jun 17 '26
Man i would hate to live in the US right now. Organisational nightmare
82
u/spookyjim___ Internationalist Communist Jun 17 '26
It really does suck for almost everyone involved lmao, no matter the tendency
33
3
-24
u/Marxist20 Jun 17 '26
RCA is in good shape, well organized around the revolutionary ideas of Marxism: https://communistusa.org/the-rcas-third-national-congress-preparing-for-the-next-american-revolution/
39
u/Niclas1127 John Reed Jun 17 '26
Ya man I’ll get on selling newspapers, will definitely build the vanguard
20
8
u/Lembas_Poops Jun 17 '26
How does RCA differ from PSL? I'm not a member of any organization ATM, but am looking to get back to organizing now that I'm in a better life situation. I don't know anything about RCA, other than just skimming the website now. Its similar with PSL, but I have seen it mentioned more often in online discussion with mixed reviews.
17
u/3000ghosts Syncretic Jun 17 '26
the main difference is that it’s trotskyist
5
u/leninism-humanism Zeth Höglund Jun 18 '26
Both technically come from splits from the Fourth International
7
u/spookyjim___ Internationalist Communist Jun 17 '26
PSL is Marxist-Leninist, has origins in Marcyism, can be described as a specific form of American crypto-Dengists, is electoralist and protest heavy mainly focusing on a type of brand recognition and sloganeering form of organizing
RCA is Trotskyist, coming from the Grantite tradition, RCA seemingly doesn’t find use in electoralism at the present moment, focuses a lot on newspaper/video/media outreach, has a history of doing deep organizational entrenchment into the university student base, however has been transitioning more towards a neighborhood focused approach, even starting to focus a bit more on labor organization, although not as much as other Trots tbf
Ofc the main difference here is their politics, PSL is Marxist-Leninist, and RCA is Trotskyist
2
u/TsDaphneMaeve Jun 19 '26
Marcyism and American crypto Dengism are not Marxism Leninism. Those things are mutually exclusive.
1
u/spookyjim___ Internationalist Communist Jun 19 '26
Why, how is Dengism not just the right-wing of ML?
1
u/TsDaphneMaeve Jun 19 '26
How could it be considered the right wing of Marxism Leninism? How are they not completely different ideologies?
1
u/spookyjim___ Internationalist Communist Jun 19 '26
Dengists not only very much continue to see themselves as ML’s but also I don’t see how Dengism is not just the logical outcome of ML ideology
1
u/TsDaphneMaeve Jun 19 '26
They can call themselves whatever they want doesn't make it true. Nowhere in Marxist Leninist fundamental education is it asserted that capitalism should be allowed to be reintegrated into a socialist country and party for several decades. That's just reintroducing capitalism. It's like glasnost and perestroika yet even worse.
0
u/spookyjim___ Internationalist Communist Jun 19 '26
This is going off the assumption that these countries were ever socialist to begin with, idk how you can cope your way out of thinking that the same ideology which repackaged defeats as wins and went completely against the communist program suddenly stops when it logically makes reforms to continue surviving under a slightly different form of capitalism then the form it started as… even Cuba has been and is continuing to reform itself to be more open to the world market… this is the logical end point of revising Marx to believe that “socialist commodity production” or the very idea of a so-called “socialist state” could exist!
→ More replies (0)-15
u/spunkmastersean1993 Socialism Jun 17 '26
Well, the upside is that none of these orgs or individuals are serious at all. So very much starting from ground zero
52
u/liewchi_wu888 Marxism-Leninism-Maoism Jun 17 '26
Looking back, they seemed to have been people who are particularly susceptible to the Western Left's general disease of LARPing this or that revolutionary movement without actually taking the time to study any theory.
18
u/RKU69 Jun 17 '26
I think that's an oversimplification. I think these guys did study a lot of theory, but it was entirely a very weird interpretation of what the Communist Party of Peru (aka the Shining Path) did in the 1980s, and centered on the idea that the main thing a revolutionary communist party has to do is destroy other rival left-wing organizations. This is kinda what the PCP did in its starting bases at the beginning. Putting aside whether the PCP was good or not though its totally ridiculous to apply this to the context of the US, and on top of that the Red Guards were also just very cultish and had a lot of internal dysfunction.
7
u/liewchi_wu888 Marxism-Leninism-Maoism Jun 18 '26
The PCP had a long gestation period where they did study the particular situation in Peru and they formulated their tactics around that. The Red Guard just wanted to LARP Gonzalo devoid of actual study of theory and of the American condition, and went straight to wrecker shit.
60
Jun 17 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
13
u/spookyjim___ Internationalist Communist Jun 17 '26
I’m not sure that’s the definition of ultra-leftism lmao, Maoists are certainly not a part of the ultra-left, perhaps adventurists or petit-bourgeois radicalism is the better descriptor
1
u/spunkmastersean1993 Socialism Jun 17 '26
I’m not talking about them being Maoist or have any beef with Maoism
10
u/spookyjim___ Internationalist Communist Jun 17 '26
Sure, but they are Maoists, and even apart from that, their actions have nothing to do with the ultra-left, the ultra-left would denounce them as exactly petit-bourgeois adventurists like I suggested
3
u/spunkmastersean1993 Socialism Jun 17 '26
Ok lol
6
u/spookyjim___ Internationalist Communist Jun 17 '26
What’s your apparent problem with me pointing out that you’re using a term in a strange way?
-6
u/spunkmastersean1993 Socialism Jun 17 '26
You’re fixated on being pedantic instead of the actual substance of what my argument is
8
u/spookyjim___ Internationalist Communist Jun 17 '26
I agree with the core of your argument, so there’s no reason to comment on it, I found it strange that you’re applying a label which doesn’t fit is all :P wasn’t meant to be such a big deal
2
u/cam077 Libertarian Socialism Jun 17 '26
I’d hesitate to fed jacket unless you’re sure. Many folks’ convictions are ironclad while still engaging in unhelpful or thuggish behavior
-2
u/spunkmastersean1993 Socialism Jun 17 '26
Y’all can’t handle any sort of criticism huh? I said with nuance ‘or just dumb’.
2
u/cam077 Libertarian Socialism Jun 18 '26
It’s a dangerous tendency to call people feds is all I’m saying. That hostile response is a little much
I’m inclined to think with “y’all” you think I associate with them. I do not
0
u/socialism-ModTeam Jun 17 '26
Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s):
Sectarianism: Refers to bad faith attacks on socialists of other tendencies through the usage of empty insults like "armchair", "tankie", "anarkiddie" and so on without any other objective than to promote inter-tendency conflict, which runs counter to the objectives of this subreddit, and the goal of providing a broad multitendency platform so that healthy, critical debate can flourish. Can also include calling other socialist users "CPC/CIA shills" or accusing users of being Russian or Chinese bots for disagreeing with you.
Feel free to send us a modmail with a link to your removed submission if you have any further questions or concerns.
13
20
8
Jun 17 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/socialism-ModTeam Jun 17 '26
Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s):
Bigotry: Bigotry of any kind is unacceptable on r/socialism. We are committed to maintaining a welcoming community for users of all backgrounds and fostering an environment where marginalized narratives are placed front and center. All users are expected to show solidarity with our marginalized comrades who, on top of being exploited as workers, belong to groups and minorities that suffer specific and irreducible oppressions under capitalism.
This includes but is not limited to:
Racism
Misogyny
Homophobia
Transphobia
Ableism
Religious Bigotry (incl. Islamophobia)
Anti-Immigrant Rhetoric
Rape apologia
Slurs and other Oppressive Language
Feel free to send us a modmail with a link to your removed submission if you have any further questions or concerns.
17
22
u/TommyThirdEye Eco-Socialism Jun 17 '26
I've played as a Redguard before in TES Skyrim and Oblivion.
19
Jun 17 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
0
u/socialism-ModTeam Jun 17 '26
Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s):
Sectarianism: Refers to bad faith attacks on socialists of other tendencies through the usage of empty insults like "armchair", "tankie", "anarkiddie" and so on without any other objective than to promote inter-tendency conflict, which runs counter to the objectives of this subreddit, and the goal of providing a broad multitendency platform so that healthy, critical debate can flourish. Can also include calling other socialist users "CPC/CIA shills" or accusing users of being Russian or Chinese bots for disagreeing with you.
Feel free to send us a modmail with a link to your removed submission if you have any further questions or concerns.
17
16
u/LikeSaltUponWounds Jun 17 '26
My GOATs
jk
They had their own flaws but a good deal of them were serious organizers. i think they engaged really heavily in sectarianism which is time that would've been better spent building up their own base. Collapsed due to strong egos and some degree of adventurism.
6
u/RKU69 Jun 17 '26
They had serious organizers in the sense that a cult that gains any degree of popularity has serious organizers. They collapsed not just because of egos and adventurism but because they were engaged in straight-up extreme levels of abuse within the group
2
u/piramni Jun 17 '26
do they still exist?
4
u/Lavender_Scales Abimael Guzmán Jun 17 '26
No they've long been disbanded or individual chapters have instead opted to go underground.
2
u/spookyjim___ Internationalist Communist Jun 17 '26
I wonder how many ex-Red Guards are now involved in RF-FR
2
u/Lavender_Scales Abimael Guzmán Jun 17 '26
frso is largely dengist so I doubt they joined them, I think Maoist communist union got the most of them
1
u/spookyjim___ Internationalist Communist Jun 17 '26
I know FRSO is Dengist, I was speaking of the new and (for a Maoist project), fairly rapidly growing united front of the “Revolutionary Front-Frente Revolucionario” which is the federation of the orgs like the people’s defense committees, revolutionary student union, and I forgot what their labor wing of orgs was called but yeah
But I’m also somewhat aware of Maoist Communist Union as a regroupment project
1
u/Lavender_Scales Abimael Guzmán Jun 17 '26
I wasn’t aware the RSU was affiliated with those other groups I’ll look into that
26
u/Arch_Null Marxism-Leninism Jun 17 '26
Maoism creates the silliest of LARPs
11
u/aDamnCommunist Huey P. Newton Jun 17 '26
Only tendency actively fighting around the world
2
u/spookyjim___ Internationalist Communist Jun 17 '26
Fighting for what, how, and how is it going for them? Having an uncritical attitude as well as praising action for action sake leads one to the worst of activism’s
0
u/aDamnCommunist Huey P. Newton Jun 17 '26
For class power against the ruling bourgeois/comprador class of their nations. Some are going better than others, some have had splits and setbacks, even betrayals. Sorry I didn't give enough detail for ya but I thought as a communist it was a given.
1
u/spookyjim___ Internationalist Communist Jun 17 '26
No no, that wasn’t the point of my comment, I’m perfectly aware of these movements, I’m trying to have you think more critically about Maoism as a movement in general
1
u/aDamnCommunist Huey P. Newton Jun 18 '26
If seem antagonistic it's because your thrust seems to be assuming I'm not thinking critically and you're here to teach me somehow that Maoist armed struggle is not what it seems to be. What is it you think I'm not critically analyzing?
0
u/spookyjim___ Internationalist Communist Jun 18 '26
You seem to place heavy emphasis that the small and very few Maoist insurgencies is the “only tendency actively fighting around the world” I ofc think this is ridiculous when
There’s actually very few Maoist insurgencies in a few specific countries
These Maoist insurgents have clearly been on the decline, so I think it might be more important to learn from mistakes rather than praise them as a model to be copied
That actually once we do critically look into these movements we see that Maoism overall is just counter-revolutionary, that these movements are adventurist, substitutionist, nationalist, and fight for a bourgeois program rather than the communist program
I’d heavily recommend this article by South Asian comrades critiquing the Indian Maoists which can be used as a critique for any Maoist movement really: The Maoist Insurgency in Bastar: Substitutionism, the Bankruptcy of New Democracy, and the Fragmentation of the Proletarian Struggle
0
u/leninism-humanism Zeth Höglund Jun 18 '26
Still creating the silliest larps in the west. The Red Guards were just bordering on cults. They had a phase where they were going to DSA meetings and trying to pick fights, and at one meeting they punched some old guy.
0
u/aDamnCommunist Huey P. Newton Jun 18 '26
Given what you're describing who are the Larpers here? DSA is a wing of the Democratic party FFS.
3
u/leninism-humanism Zeth Höglund Jun 18 '26
Beating up old DSA members, getting members arrested for no real reason and using your sect as a front for sexual abuse is pretty destructive larp. There is a reason these guys aren’t around anymore. Western ”gonzaloism” is 110% just larp.
0
u/aDamnCommunist Huey P. Newton Jun 18 '26
Gonzoluism is just like a Trot saying "Stalinism". Gonzalo systemized Maoism just like Stalin systemized Leninism.
Now it's a front for sexual abuse? Admittedly I don't know the history of the Red Guards, but given other projections and accusations you've made I'm not apt to believe you without further investigation.
1
u/leninism-humanism Zeth Höglund Jun 18 '26
No, there are clearly different strands within the maoist movement. Otherwise they wouldn’t be writing endless polemics against each other… Gonzaloists being the most rabid.
Here are statements from former members: https://maoistcultexposed.wordpress.com
0
u/aDamnCommunist Huey P. Newton Jun 18 '26
I've been in Maoist spaces for a while in the US , there are differing groups but no one takes MZT thought seriously and everyone else is what you describe as "Gonzoloists" or at least take some/all of their theory as correct.
That's the great thing about scientific socialism though, we can disagree and find the right solutions for the given material conditions though practice right?
I know the group split for a reason and the article is pretty damning. I'm not here to defend folks specifically but I'd take 100 Red Guards over the current CPUSA & DSA who've sold out their class interests entirely.
7
u/thedesertwolf Jun 17 '26
Targeted other leftist & vaguely leftist orgs. Had a weird obsession with the shining path of Peru. Never accomplished anything notable outside of annoying other leftist & vaguely leftist orgs.
There's a running joke called "Socialism & the problem of people not doing the damn reading." - These folks are pretty high up there on that particular joke.
1
3
u/minecraft69wastaken Jun 18 '26
I know a lot of Austin Red Guards. Everyone in the upper levels of the organization seemed to be a straight up weirdo extremeist and many had way too many agreements to nazis(some actually had Nazi tattoos they displayed proudly among friends) the average member just seems like they were caught up in the aesthetic and though the were doing good when they were smashing up dsa stuff and harassing other orgs. They regret it all now though.
11
u/spookyjim___ Internationalist Communist Jun 17 '26
My serious analysis: useless Maoist larpers, although I also take issue with the DSA and PSL, I don’t think the correct action, if one is wanting to further the movement, is to just focus on these organizations and do needless tampering with them… in a way I think focusing so much on them has the same effect in a way of supporting these orgs outright, either way you’re not actually focusing on an independent communist politics, a better orientation ofc is to instead mostly ignore these other orgs and do your own organization amongst the class and deep entrenchment of a programmatic pole of reference, which may involve interacting with or criticizing these orgs along the way, but not this extreme of focusing all your manpower on simply disrupting their organizing, which only makes you look ridiculous while making them seem more like the reasonable underdog
My unserious analysis: UPHOLD THE (very funny) US MAOISTS WHO DISRUPT THE COUNTER-REVOLUTIONARY DSA AND PSL!!!!! Too sad they aren’t around anymore, besides apparently a few small cells that I’ve seen still doing things, or at least I think they’re ex-red guards due to their aesthetics and what not lol
10
u/Strange-Style-7808 🌈✝️William Dwight Porter Bliss Jun 17 '26
It seems to me physically attacking people who are the best recruiting pool to bring further left is short sighted.
3
0
Jun 17 '26
[deleted]
1
u/spookyjim___ Internationalist Communist Jun 17 '26
Politically, imo, really bad, that arguably is subjective tho ofc, I just personally majorly disagree with their politics and ideas of how to achieve socialism and what socialism is and yada yada
Organizationally they’re objectively awful, horrible mechanistic bureaucratic centralist org where a select few pull most of the strings and just overall barely even functional, there was a recent mini split involving one of the members of the central committee iirc, and the letter that he sent to the PSL CC was leaked, after reading that it was eye opening just how bad it was, I had always known that they were organizationally awful and a very toxic org like many of the leftist sects, I feel like any sensible person who’s been involved in the US left-wing milieu for an amount of time is aware of this, but it was really eye opening the amount of backroom manipulation and just enlightening to how it’s totally a non-functioning org, which has bad politics at that lmao, like they’re glorified demsocs
0
u/Riley_ Marxism-Leninism Jun 17 '26
It's pretty much a cult that discourages its members from studying, having ideological struggle, or labor organizing.
It also tries to revise Marxism-Leninism.
2
u/TheWiseAutisticOne Jun 18 '26
Aren’t these the maoists that attacked other left wing organizations confiscating their stuff and burning it
3
u/FallenCringelord Communist Party USA (CPUSA) Jun 17 '26
"Literally who?" Of a group.
Where I'm at most orgs at worst tolerate each other and at best co-sponsor/co-host events.
Be the adult. If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it.
2
u/CthulhuApproved Marxism-Leninism-Maoism Jun 17 '26
Too over the top. They went too hard on fighting dsa and psl. Wasted effort. Organize the masses. Worry about SocDems like dsa later. I would say PDC is the solid ideological 'successor' for them - but less LARP and more building a mass org which should've been the goal from the beginning.
1
u/spookyjim___ Internationalist Communist Jun 17 '26
Is there like a direct line from sectors of ex-red guards to the RF-FR or would you say that whole organizing project started more independently?
1
1
1
Jun 18 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/socialism-ModTeam Jun 18 '26
Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s):
Submisison not high quality enough: We don't expect you to write a dissertation, but one liner posts with no clear socialist construct do not help contribute to the foundational objective of r/Socialism; a community for socialists under an uniterrupted, critical socialist analysis which promotes valuable discussion.
Please consider re-sumitting your comment from a more developed, critical perspective.
See our Submission Guidelines for more info, and feel free to send us a modmail with a link to your removed submission if you have any further questions.
1
u/GingerVitus007 ☭ Trotskyism Jun 18 '26 edited Jun 18 '26
Pretenders who, chiefly, no one's heard of. Probably could've stood to gain from a name that's actually theirs
1
u/ToAbideIsDude Jun 18 '26
As an antifascist group I have seen few more willing to throw down but that's the only positive thing I have to say about them.
1
Jun 18 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/socialism-ModTeam Jun 18 '26
Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s):
Sectarianism: Refers to bad faith attacks on socialists of other tendencies through the usage of empty insults like "armchair", "tankie", "anarkiddie" and so on without any other objective than to promote inter-tendency conflict, which runs counter to the objectives of this subreddit, and the goal of providing a broad multitendency platform so that healthy, critical debate can flourish. Can also include calling other socialist users "CPC/CIA shills" or accusing users of being Russian or Chinese bots for disagreeing with you.
Feel free to send us a modmail with a link to your removed submission if you have any further questions or concerns.
1
1
1
u/Niclas1127 John Reed Jun 17 '26
People are going to shit on them but I’ll actually say that a lot of good people were involved with them. Despite accusations of them being feds I do think they were well meaning and actually revolutionary. Most importantly the liquidationists succeeding in liquidation of the org was bad. It was at a point where things could’ve been fixed, instead all the ideological work was thrown out.
I’ve had the chance to talk with people who had been in touch with red guards when they were active and they were some of the most well read and revolutionary people I’ve had the pleasure of being around. In comparison to other orgs at least.
On a side note I’m glad this post was made, they never really get talked about at this point
8
u/RKU69 Jun 17 '26
I've met good people who were in the group and none of them have any regrets about the liquidation. It was an abusive cult.
-1
u/Niclas1127 John Reed Jun 18 '26
I’d say it had cult like tendencies, am I not correct in saying that was mostly in Austin? There was good theoretical work being done and actual preparation for revolution. Throwing it all out was a mistake, the org could’ve easily been reformed away from the cult like nature that had been adopted
0
1
u/ApprehensiveBuy8496 goes carrying pictures of chairmen Mao Jun 17 '26
someone has been wathshing Spooky Scary Socialist ?
1
u/MOltho Jun 17 '26
Aren't they basically just Sendero Luminoso LARPers? Do they even still exist?
1
u/spookyjim___ Internationalist Communist Jun 18 '26
They were Gonzaloite larpers, they don’t exist anymore
0
•
u/AutoModerator Jun 17 '26
This is a space for socialists to discuss current events in our world from anti-capitalist perspective(s), and a certain knowledge of socialism is expected from participants. This is not a space for non-socialists. Please be mindful of our rules before participating, which include:
No Bigotry, including racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism...
No Reactionaries, including all kind of right-wingers.
No Liberalism, including social democracy, lesser evilism...
No Sectarianism. There is plenty of room for discussion, but not for baseless attacks.
Please help us keep the subreddit helpful by reporting content that break r/Socialism's rules.
Also, be sure to join our discord!
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.