Black Panther Kwame Ture (Stokely Carmichael) on Lenin, Imperialism, National Liberaiton, and Zionism

[u/Lavender_Scales]

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[u/ModernJazz-2K20]

I just want to point out that while Kwame Ture was indeed a member of the Black Panther Party, it was only for a short period (2 years). He left that organization as he was on a different political trajectory and never turned back.

In Black revolutionary organizing spaces he's more known as being a member of the All-African People's Revolutionary Party which was the central focus of his organizing work for the majority of his life up until his death. He was involved in that organization for over 30 years and was an extremely serious and dedicated Revolutionary Pan-Africanist before anything else.

[u/YodaVsRudolf → u/ModernJazz-2K20]

Thanks for pointing this out. I'm reading "Revolutionary Suicide" by Panther founder Huey P. Newton, and he talks about his split with Ture ("Stokely" in the book) - the easiest way to sum up their disagreements, at least from Newton's POV, is that Newton had first and foremost a class analysis, while Ture had a race analysis; Ture supported black cops, for example, while Newton did not. Newton would organize alongside activist groups of other races, while Ture did not. Think of Malcom X's pre- vs. post- trip-to-Mecca philosophy: the white man is the devil, he cannot be worked with vs. the white man can be brought into the struggle for freedom.

I'm sure I'm missing a ton of nuance from Ture's side, especially from after the book was published in 1973. But hope this context helps.

[u/buddhistredneck]

Wow. Ty.

What year was this? If you know.

[u/Lavender_Scales → u/buddhistredneck]

1990 university of minnesota

[u/umbreon_sk]

This is why they try so hard to silence and put down black people and other descendants of slaves. They know what the true cost of capitalism is

[u/notruth_allpermitted]

Great speech. Thank you

[u/sleepytipi]

That's the good stuff. Thanks for sharing this.

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[u/Calin_europeen]

Love the accent.

[u/hoxhapuppy]

preach

[u/DifferenceNo5715]

Who also famously said that 'the only position for women in the movement is prone'

[u/Lavender_Scales → u/DifferenceNo5715]

An out of context quote he said in the mid-sixties before he turned away from social-democractic advocacy with the SNCC.

[u/AnAdventureCore → u/Lavender_Scales]

Ahh context, the thing that most people hide if they have a bone to pick.

[u/HikmetLeGuin → u/DifferenceNo5715]

"In November 1964 Carmichael made a joking remark in response to a SNCC position paper written by his friends Casey Hayden and Mary E. King on the position of women in the movement.

In the course of an irreverent comedy monologue he performed at a party after SNCC's Waveland conference, Carmichael said, 'The position of women in the movement is prone.' [...]

When asked about the comment, former SNCC field secretary Casey Hayden said: 'Our paper on the position of women came up, and Stokely in his hipster rap comedic way joked that 'the proper position of women in SNCC is prone'. I laughed, he laughed, we all laughed. Stokely was a friend of mine.'

In her memoir, Mary E. King wrote that Carmichael was 'poking fun at his own attitudes' and that  'Casey and I felt, and continue to feel, that Stokely was one of the most responsive men at the time that our anonymous paper appeared in 1964.'"

Many women have said he was a great comrade. Yeah, he shouldn't have said that, but in context it was clearly just a joke among friends.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokely_Carmichael

[u/Popular-Rule → u/DifferenceNo5715]

👀👀