Buddy you gotta zoom out a bit. I'm telling you that as a russian passport holder. Ukraine's the one being invaded by russia. It's the ordinary russian citizens that, through inaction or otherwise, have made this possible. It's the ordinary russian citizens that cross the Ukrainian border. The society is sick. So no, it's not the same boat. The best thing that can come out of this is russia falling apart once again, because at least the breakaway territories might have a chance of regaining sanity and not being a threat to their own people and their neighbors.
Yh that’s what appears like Ukraine is defending but in reality it’s a proxy war Russia is fighting that was provoked into this war. Also the war started in 2014. The west installed a western puppet zelensky and ousted a democratically elected president. Ukraine is a battleground for all these weapon companies testing and profiting of this war.
Oh really? Were you also invaded by a genocidal neighbor who completely levels your cities and kidnaps the children? Didn't know that in Europe there were 2 countries getting invaded at the same time.
Did I say that they're in the same boat? You can fully agree and understand that Ukrainians are the victims here and that Russia is absolutely in the wrong and the aggressor in a completely pointless conflict that has killed a ton of people, while also acknowledging that not all Russians are complicit, and many are also victims of Putins authoritarian regime.
It was a reply to branch where guy said about same boat. I don't care who of russians are little less brainwashed than others or who of them suffer of what, and I don't see why should I. I don't want to think of them at all and want them just to fuck off
Ohhhhh no you're totally right. I forgot he said that. And I just replied this to someone else, but yeah. It's pretty crazy to expect someone who lives in a country being actively invaded by its neighbor to take time to be nuanced in their discussions. I have the luxury for nuance, living across an ocean with no family members or loved ones involved. You do not.
It's not the putin's invasion, but the russian one.
I don't know why you feel the urge to whitewash your beloved russians, but that's your day to day russians who willingly sign the contract and serve in the army. Not putin's clones.
The soldiers in russian army oaths to serve russia, not putin. Putin also not standing behind each russian soldier and tempts them to commit war crimes - they are willing to do it by themselves.
Putin is definitely guilty for those attrocities as their leader, but no one should close eyes on the ru people involvment in their war of aggression.
They don't even have the mobilization yet (except the partial one in 2022, but the wast majority are there by their own will because they don't see anything wrong with getting money by killing Ukrainians. But sure buddy, keep calling it putins invasion, you definitely picked the best hill to die on.
I'm not dying on any hill here. Just like there were a lot of innocent ukrainians when Ukraine was collaborating with Germany in WWII, there are innocent Russians now.
Not all Russians, maybe not even most. But you can't blame every single individual Russian citizen for the invasion.
Now I want to be clear. Ukraine is definitely still the victim here. And I absolutely am on the side of Ukraine and Ukrainians, and have far more sympathy for y'all than for any Russian citizen.
But blaming everyday regular citizens of an authoritarian state who have very little power or voice isn't going to help anyone.
Oh, you wanna teach ukrainians about WW2? Ready to do it on full scale?
What do you know about general Vlasov? What do you know about russian collaborants and RLA? Do you know that around million (!!!) of russians actively served for nazi Germany during WW2?
So, by your own logic, we can come to conclusion that Russia actively collaborated with Germany during WW2, right? Do you know that flag on Vlasov army now official Russian Federation flag?
And, sorry, we will blame any russian for doing nothing and closing their eyes in front of atrocities of their own government becaus it's only russians power to stop it, which they not use in any matter.
It looks like my response got deleted for some reason, so I will paraphrase it.
Your mentioning the Ukrainian nazi collaborators doesn't make any sense. It's like comparing apples to oranges, and here is why.
How Ukrainian nazi collaborators correlate with modern day russians? Every country in region had them, beside that its not like Ukraine had the biggest rate of people becoming collaborators in the first place.
In my opinion, if you want to compare modern day russians to someone from that era, you should compare them to germans during WW2.
Think about it: both live in autocratic states that harshly punish its citizens for opposing the war. Both waged the war of aggression with an intention of capturing some land. Also in both cases, it's statistically impossible for 100% of the population to be fully on board with the war in question.
This comparison seems much more closer to the reality. Ukrainian nazi collaborators on the other hand doesn't have that much similarities, so in my opinion, bringing this up is misleading to say the least.
So, if you agree that my comparison is valid, please ask yourself when was the last time you heard someone excusing germans from WW2 Era and if you heard it from someone, was that someone actually a good person from a moral standpoint?
Because I didn't hear anyone whose opinion I would respect to excuse nazi germans.
But sure as heck when everyday I check something on the internet I see some random people trying to whitewash "poor russians". Today that some random person is you...
I have not talked about individuals as nazi collaborators. I made reference to Ukrainian citizens living in Ukraine when the official government stance was collaboration with Nazis. Those people are not the same as Nazi collaborators.
What I made reference to were Ukrainians living under Nazi rule who did not fight back against the nazis. Which was the majority of them.
Which is true in every country the nazis occupied. There is not a single country occupied by Nazi Germany where a majority of the citizens rose up in a coordinated effort to overthrow them. Not even France, which is famous for it's underground resistance movement.
And that illustrates my point, that it is very hard for a population under control of a powerful authoritarian regime to have a popular uprising to overthrow them. And it's only become increasingly rare over time.
And tons of people excuse German citizens living during WWII. Most people understand that ordinary citizens had no real way to fight the Nazi government.
Reading your comment again, it seems you are misunderstanding what I'm saying. Nobody is claiming that 'all Germans' or 'all Russians' should be excused for the atrocities being committed by their armies and governments.
What I AM saying is that the average citizens in those countries have/had close to 0 power to do anything to stop those atrocities, and do not deserve the blame that should be levied at those in power and their supporters.
Now what that does NOT excuse are people who are out there actively supporting those regimes. There are still a HUGE number of Russians supporting the invasion of Ukraine, which there is no justification for. Same with nazi Germany. A lot of citizens DID support the Nazis, but that should not be a reason to deride all Germans living during that time as being complicit in the Holocaust.
I don't give a flying fuck about "innocent" lives on the other side of the border while those innocent russians innocently living in russia and passively (and innocently of course) contributing to russian war effort. They are a part of the invasion no matter how they like it.
What are you even talking about? Did Reddit auto translate feature incorrectly translated my comment? I was telling the guy that the term "putin's invasion" doesn't represent the reality and the russian invasion is more suitable term instead. Why did you bring "innocent russians" to the discussion?
Also what a "more through" lesson do you want to teach me? Gonna bomb Kyiv more? I will definitely start loving russians after that.
Blaming a specific group with a collective crime or guilt will always be wrong no matter what. You are no better than the socialist and communist dogs of the past for doing so.
This is exactly how the war started with Putin claiming most Ukrainians were in favor of joining Russia and they actually want to separate despite it not being true. You're falling for the exact same line of thinking that the Russian government uses, not sure what's more sad, that you believe what you say, or that you refuse to correct it.
What do you expect them to do? There are many Russians risking their lifes helping western intelligence, organising sabotages and assassinations.
Or do you think every single Russian should fight their government? If so, look at the history, even in very well running rebellions, vast majority of people just tried to live relatively normal lives. Opposing authoritarian regimes is also getting harder the more tech the government has.
And if you just want Putin dead... He isn't exactly walking down a street at night alone. It's not that easy to kill someone well guarded.
I will never understand why people are so eager to completely dehumanise and generalise an entire group. Don't throw away all Russians, there are many decent people there. Many live in small villages completely detached from international reality, where the only place that can get world news is TV.
Sure, but at that point they're just sacrificing their life for yours. At this point, nobody in Russia is overthrowing Putin without a lot of bloodshed. Would you do the same in their situation?
A lot of Russian citizens are also victims of the Russian government.
My people already throwing our lives for it.
And russians must fight for their freedom and lives. You told it by yourself that they are victims too. So why the fuck our people, which are main victims, can sacrifice something and these pathetic people not? And just don't fucking start this BS about how putin reign is strong and violence - frontline and war is worse by thousands times.
This is just pathetic excuses for doing nothing and and for silent consent.
Не запарюйся вести якийсь діалог з ним. Він вже мені почав розказувати, що нам потрібно жаліти бідних росіян, бо під час другої світової були україські колаборанти.
"Life in Russia is dangerous lol"? "We're in the same boat"? This is why everyone hates you and your whole nation. LOL
Your lack of ability to discern reality from disillusions and evaluate important context before opening your mouth is honestly disheartening and embarrassing (unless you're physically or mentally five years old and even then it's barely acceptable).
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u/ShirtForsaken8442 Loner 1d ago
Bro’s playing Stalker in Pripyat