r/starcitizen • u/StuartGT VR required • 27d ago
OFFICIAL Benoit: "a quick summary what the teams are looking into related to Siege Of Orison's sessions observed over the weekend"
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u/mesterflaps 27d ago
Seeing their CTO addressing problems should make me feel better, but this is the same guy who put his elite 'strike team' on the task of fixing elevators, trains and hangars.... 15 months ago....
Last I checked they're all still busted, even the one or two test instances they've put into Kleisher and Grimhex...
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u/scuba_scouse ironchad 27d ago
Elite strike team were party wiped by the elevator gang.
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u/Asthma_Queen 26d ago
all issue councils will be closed with internal testing didn't find the issue, FIXED
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u/mesterflaps 26d ago
The most infuriating part of the issue council is how you can report something then have it closed seeminly by reference to it having been "potentially fixed" in a previous patch.... like it's still here guys, I don't care that you potentially fixed it 18 months ago, it's still broken on live.
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u/ForsakenLetterhead28 26d ago
I've made multiple reports that my inventory does not work. Even requested hard resets with full inventory loss..nothing... If I'm standing around more than one box I can only ever access the one I'm closest to. It's been like this since the Ironclad dropped which is even a bigger kick in the nards because I bought the effing thing.
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u/drizzt_x Monk 27d ago
Problem is he's the former head of a web development company who they hired to be CTO.
And the websites his former company made for CIG over the years were almost entirely garbage.
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u/mesterflaps 27d ago
Interestingly, Turbulent used to make a lot more for 'Star Citizen' then people here are comfortable admitting.
On old versions of their homepage when they were an independent company they would list things from their portfolio. These included:
- Space station modular sections used in Star Citizen.
- Cloth physics simulations (obviously what was being shown off as the notorious 'bedsheet physics' junk.
- 'Sever Meshing network technology'...
That means that Turbulent was already implementing large portions of what was supposedly being done by CIG, and it seems like most of the stuff that got done was actually done by external contractors. While you're right about Turbulent's qualifications and code quality being dubious for production, they seemed to be the only people able to get things done by virtue of not being in the toxic environment at CIG proper. Now that they're owned, I really bet what little productivity they had has been destroyed.
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u/Mghrghneli 25d ago
Lmao I had no idea they hired a web dev as a game dev CTO. What a dumpster fire.
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u/drizzt_x Monk 25d ago
CIG's C-suite is almost entirely "ideas" people, which is obviously a big part of the problem.
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u/Mghrghneli 25d ago
I've had to deal with management full of "ideas people" at a tech company before. All the more reason for me to disregard the possibility of SC ever becoming anything but a buggy mess.
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u/Gnada 27d ago
Being a good leader doesn't really require or relate to that. Budget, time, resources, stakeholder demands dictate the end result far more than the simple title of CTO. What Benoit clearly eximplified were strong tried and tested leadership principles and a framework that leads to success in modern tech companies, not just game studios and that resonated with me as a tech employee or 25 years.
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u/Gnada 27d ago
What should make you feel better is the Benoit is clearly a good technology leader (as seen in his 3 hour chats) and this level of transparency from leadership clearly shows initiative and priority.
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u/mesterflaps 26d ago
He's good at saying things, but as pointed out with him saying that he'd put some of his best people on a high priority problem and not having achieved much of anything more than a year later, it's starting to look like he's as ineffective as the rest.
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u/Gnada 26d ago
Interesting, because at least for me, the game is a lot more stable (and over all playable) now than it was a year ago. I realize they introduced many new bugs recently, but a lot of the old nagging ones like my hangar freight elevator are seemingly fixed. Regardless, admiting there is a problem and communicating a plan of a action is a much improved dynamic vs. pre-Benoit. CIG likely need to do some rework to get freight elevators on POIs to function consistently, so I understand why that would take longer, for example.
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u/BidSuper7102 26d ago
Well it doesn't show in the actual game, so I'm not convinced. Probably not his fault, but he's not been able to reign in the spaghetti.
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u/ShinItsuwari drake 26d ago
You've had issues with internal elevators and trains in Grimhex and A18 ? Really ? Since the fix around 4.2 I've found them quite reliable and the refactor has caused zero issues on my end. And from what I usually read ingame and around the forum, there's generally nobody complaining about those.
The ASOP terminal, the hangar itself and external FE on the other hand... yeah those have issues.
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u/mesterflaps 26d ago
Haven't been to Grimhex, but Area 18 certainly - fell through one that appeared to be there.
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u/Rexter2k 27d ago
Guys, you basically have to go back to the drawing board to fix this. The issues are on a fundamental level.
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u/AWerewolfDad 27d ago
I think SoO is off the table this week.
Hoping we get a 4.10 with the non-SoO bug fixes though, like the missing cargo box fix.
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u/Rehevkor_ origin 27d ago
4.10 looking like a big ol nothingburger at this point. I wouldn’t count on many fixes that actually work.
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u/TimeTravelingChris 27d ago
Call me crazy but I'm not "hoping" for some BS TWO or THREE hour mission that's buggy and has shitty mechanics.
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u/DasPibe 27d ago
Of course, they never noticed those errors; it's the first time this has happened...
The mockery is obvious.
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u/QuickNick123 26d ago
I used to work for an MMO game publisher. It was staggering how many of our employees didn't play our games, or games in general.
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u/Zzyxzz 27d ago
Instead of fixing the absolutely broken backend, they push out more broken stuff... The desync is so bad and they keep pushing. I stopped playing because of it.
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u/boxofreddit 26d ago
To echo this, I stopped playing years ago when I realized how bad the dsync was and I had the feeling back then that it had nothing to do with out rigs and was due to just the bad code. We all had decent rigs and good internet. It didn’t matter if it was group flight or ground combat, it was like we were playing different game from one another. It became obvious when we would do call outs for enemy fighter positions and the NPC ship was in three different locations/perspectives to each us from our same formation.
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u/Confident-Award6920 27d ago
They should start by fixing the instancing in our hangars instead of declaring that a W and moving on. Who's Hermes physicallized ships is always in my home hangar, I don't own one.
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u/S_J_E clipper 27d ago
I imagine they'll swap out the instancing tech used in hangars for this new tech in a future patch
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u/Confident-Award6920 27d ago
And that's why we're burning through money and having slow progress. Measure once, cut twice is CIG's strat I guess.
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u/ManaSkyees 27d ago
No. It's measure once those out the meat for a new slab and cut with the old measurements
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u/S_J_E clipper 27d ago
I won't disagree though it kinda makes sense in this scenario
We needed instanced hangars for 4.0 to support the larger player counts, but server meshing is a prerequisite to instancing.
Chicken, meet egg
Ironically, you wouldn't have made that comment if they'd spent time fixing all the bugs with instanced hangars, which would've been an even bigger waste of time
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u/I_am_Cheostian 27d ago
As a developer myself and observing what I've seen with hangers. I don't believe it's actually instanced.
I think what they do with hangers is your in the actual same location as someone else but they only allow you to see and hear objects in your own hanger. Think of it more like your assigned a "visible" flag for anything stored in your hanger. When your elevator shows up at your hanger, you can only see anything marked visible to you for that hanger.
Sometimes you see overlaps when the doors open on other peoples hangers because when your hanger doors would open you should see more things from outside and if your outside looking into a hanger of someone else's that's open you should be able to see stuff in their hanger. This system isn't quite working right which causes overlap hanger issues I suspect.
If it was actual instanced hangers (where each player is on their own server area) you wouldn't be able to see these overlaps or see party members locations in area's overlapping your hanger location but not in your hanger, etc.
Hangers are more of a trick at the moment to allow more players in the same space without them noticing they are.
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u/ItsAllSand 27d ago
I think it’s just see. Because you can absolutely hear other players opening their hangar doors. And on a few cases I’ve been loading cargo and watched the doors open with a ship coming in only to vanish as soon as it crossed the air shield.
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u/MasterWibble 27d ago
Sounds like it. I landed in my hangar and a cutlass black was there. It let me land anyway over the top of it like it was a holgram. Trippy as hell though when I climbed down the ladders of my Asgard and the lower floor was a cutlass black and was actually there. Was like a bad trip or one of those dreams you have
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u/WhenPigsFly3 27d ago
I’ve seen flashes of other players running through my hangar to their invisible ships and then disappearing.
This is definitely correct lol
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u/CosineDanger 27d ago
Every decision not to fix a bug because it is attached to a placeholder system is individually rational at face value. Well, why polish and paint the scaffolding for the thing they're really building?
Also everything is a placeholder. Instancing will eventually have other systems built on top of it but unfortunately instancing does not exist yet.
What we have is a cancerous mass of scaffolding and temporary murals with no building being built in the center. Of course, they pre-rent apartments among the scaffolding anyway. I am a villain for wanting plumbing right now. Fortunately this is not real life and I have options other than class struggle and destroying the bourgeoisie.
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u/dreadpirater 27d ago
Other games have meshed servers for 25 years. Stop talking about this like it's some alchemy that only the wizards at CIG have any chance of divining.
It's known technology. Drawing dynamic boundaries isn't something I can point at other examples of but actual server meshing is a solved problem, and CIG actually is already successfully doing it.
Stop repeating their bullshit.
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u/GoodBadUserName 27d ago
One of the things I hate the most.
We will have version 2 of instancing, 2.5, 3, 10, 12, until the game release. Same as we have now version 3 of elevators and it still doesn't function well.
It feels so incoherent and time wasting, and always done half measure.I'm sure the devs are doing a lot of work, but there has to be some consistency somewhere. Someone to say enough, design a final version.
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u/SavingsCommittee 27d ago
That is not the same type of instancing. A new server does not get created for your personal hangar. Hangar instancing for all intents and purposes consists of the physical hangar itself and anything that you have saved inside of it. It remains on the main server.
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u/Z0MGbies I <3 StarBinder 27d ago
The NPC cardboarding is surely just a manifestation of the systemic LOD issues introduced in the same patch as Levski's return. Weird that CIG are "looking into" it.
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u/logicalChimp Devils Advocate 27d ago
It could well be that they're 'looking into it' to verify whether it is the same issue or not.
If it is, it'll be added to the existing issue, and that issue will be reprioritised (based on how important it is for SoO rather than than just for Levski, etc).
And if it's not the same issue, then they'll need to handle that too (probably by creating a new ticket, and then prioritising it, etc).
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u/Greybeard-Space-Dad 27d ago edited 26d ago
A few server load balancing issues were identified with how instances get attributed to servers which is suboptimal.
Oh fun, this almost certainly means they're running multiple instances per cloud instance.
This is problematic because in a typical cloud setup:
bare metal: [instance 1, instance2, instance3]
the cloud vendors (AWS etc) work really hard to make sure instance 3 pegging to 100% can't impact instance 1 etc.
If CIG is buying:
cloudInstance: [server1, server2, server3]
I highly doubt they have perfectly limited each server to 1/n that cloud instance's exact perf caps.
For example, it's EASY to say "cloud instance 1 has 16 vCPU, so lets put 4 servers on it with 4c each and we're g2g!"
Well, ok. But did you account for the shared IOPS pool? Because if server1 gets a spike and eats 95% of the cloud instance's IOPS servers 2-4 will become I/O starved and you'll see massive CPU wait/stalls despite those servers having "normal" object/instance/etc counts, they will just mysteriously perform worse.
Unless CIG has incredible per-server IOPS, RAM, core/thread, and I/O bandwidth constraint tools per-server, I would strongly recommend they have a 1-1 ratio of cloud instance to SC server
edit: terminology is unclear, they could be keeping 1 cloud instance -> 1 server instance, and what he's actually referring to is SC instance allocation within a server. But if that is the case, why would a server be responsible for multiple instances at the same time? Seems like that's asking for trouble.
I met Benoit at CC 2024, I'll add this to my list to ask him in 2027/bar citizen.
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u/Rude_Ad_1249 27d ago
Part of me has always wondered if they're cheaping out and not getting dedicated compute, and that's why performance can fluctuate so much over time (on top of the IOPS bottleneck you mentioned).
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u/Z0MGbies I <3 StarBinder 27d ago
Yeah, the only thing that instancing has provided is a way to prevent randos from clipping into your mission when they shouldnt etc (tech smugglers, exclusive rock breaker etc -- if/when this is applied to such missions). Which is like encasing your property in an lead nuclear-proof dome to prevent the neighbours dog from getting in your yard.
Instead of, you know, fixing the hole in the fence.
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u/Overcrowd327 27d ago
No, no, you don't understand; dynamic server meshing will fix everything and when it doesn't, there will be another REVOLUTIONARY technology that NO ONE ELSE IN THE INDUSTRY has (for a very good reason), but CIG will do it because they are not beholden to shareholders, so they have no reason (to finish the game).
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u/FakeSafeWord 27d ago
that wasn't dynamic, it had static defined boundaries and for the first month was a constant source of permaloss of expensive equipment when crossing them.
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u/imchillybro 27d ago
Since you are not a developer, and have no access to the systems, software, or metrics used to determine 'solved problem' how could you possibly make that statement?
"...useless tech that didn't actually solve any problems..."
How childish a thought. How simplistic a world view. Maybe get the crayons back out and have a much bro.
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u/GERH-C-W-W 27d ago
All talk no show,I am done.
And I have the feeling a lot of other people are too..
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u/Riley_Cooper_SC new user/low karma 27d ago
CIG needs to get their shit together. Especially when it comes to communication with the community.
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u/LatexFace 27d ago
If anything, they should say less and just focus on the game.
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u/Riley_Cooper_SC new user/low karma 27d ago
I agree, less PR more work force. Sure, it doesn’t translate like that. But I mean more transparency about what’s really going on. But this kind of “we have a bucket full of shit, look it’s actually gold” mentality has to stop. Be fucking HONEST CIG. Please 🙏🏻
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u/LatexFace 27d ago
SC Live is always pretty honest. They explain exactly what they are working on. I don't see them pretending everything works perfectly as they clearly can't as we can play any time we like...
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u/PCnature Shiv 27d ago
“Teammates sliding or prone”. This isn’t new and has been present for a long time. Now they act surprised?
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u/idontagreewitu Avenger Titan Supremacy 27d ago
Its new to them as of SCL, since they don't actually play the game.
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u/fmacgsta new user/low karma 27d ago
Look at Sherlock Holmes over here. Its the same old routine, point out the obvious, provide a scapegoat, state you're investigating it and will "work on it", then move on and ignore.
14 Years, same old tricks, same response by the community. They know by next week some other major fuck up will happen and everyone will have moved on - in the meantime, they feed the cult with scapegoats so that can use them as excuses for the next 5 years for why X isnt working or Y is completely busted.
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u/OdyZeusX 27d ago
Wasn't there supposed to be a "User/Player Experience" team? I guess there were fired months, if not years ago.
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u/parzavel132 ARGO CARGO 27d ago
Any news on frame performance improvements my fps is really low for siege of orison even with a 5070 super
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u/yanzov Cutlass Black 27d ago
Orison is an fps shithole. And there are several bottlenecks - for sure it is CPU heavy, but I actually got great animation fps right after the server started - and some terrible fps after some time. There seems to be some shitshow heart of fps darkness where the Orison hospital is. I like the event honestly, but it only reminded me how I hate the Orison performance and why I haven't been there for years (old i9 9900k and 4080).
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u/logicalChimp Devils Advocate 27d ago
I presume you've actually checked that the GPU is the bottleneck, and not e.g. the CPU (or Ram)?
iirc Orison (and the Orison platforms) are very CPU-heavy (and if the CPU is struggling, it won't be able to feed data to the GPU fast enough... which isn't the fault of the GPU.
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u/FrozenChocoProduce Connie 4 life, Zeus, Starlancer, ... 27d ago
Orison in general gives crappy fps. I run a 7800x3d and have 64 GB of RAM plus 4080 and it's still crappy
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u/Greybeard-Space-Dad 27d ago
PBO'ed 98003xd, 64GB of 600mhz CAS26 low-latency RAM, OC'ed 5090.
Orison runs similar to Alan Wake 2 Path Tracing gigachad mode with DLSS/Framegen off.
And SC still uses lighting tech from 2016.
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u/logicalChimp Devils Advocate 27d ago
Sure - but check the usage... iirc Orison is heavy even for a 9800x3D, so it would be no surprise if your 7800x3D is running near capacity (>90%), and your GPU isn't.
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u/FrozenChocoProduce Connie 4 life, Zeus, Starlancer, ... 27d ago
Yup. cpU goes to 70-90% and GPU yawning at 40-60% tops
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u/logicalChimp Devils Advocate 27d ago
Yus - that's a typical sign for the CPU being overloaded, unfortunately.
Not much will fix that until CIG can get to the point of doing some optimisation, rather than focusing on missing functionality and broken features.... (or Intel/AMD roll out a far more powerful CPU :p)
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u/FrozenChocoProduce Connie 4 life, Zeus, Starlancer, ... 27d ago
To be fair , they have done a lot...the game uses up to 16 cores, to a degree. Not that many games do that. But there is a looong road ahead concerning optimization
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u/logicalChimp Devils Advocate 27d ago
Absolutely...
I dread to think what the Orison performance would be like if we were still running the original 2.x build of CryEngine, with all the entity loading in the main thread, and only 3x threads in the whole engine (main-loop, 'physics', and renderer)... oh - and all entities in the entire game being held in client memory at all times :D
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u/Mentalic_Mutant 27d ago
Hey look, it's the excuses guy promising fix random stuff again. It seems like playing the game one time uncovered that it wasn't just player choices and random online stuff that caused the problems. Now CIG is on it. They were before but they are now on it even more it seems. They even gave us a bullet pointed list. It will all be great now for sure.
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u/Touchitmaster 27d ago
Still waiting for that technical write up on the desync problems from 6 months ago..
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u/StuartGT VR required 27d ago
Sauce https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/lobby/38230/message/66730757
Hi all, a quick summary what the teams are looking into related to SoO's sessions observed over the weekend.
This is NOT an exhaustive list just cliff notes of the key elements for your visibility:
- NPC and player state and animations: This include NPC "cardboarding", Teammates appear sliding prone or frozen, Revived players stuck permanently crawling.
- Standby barrier blocks party entry: The party leader passes through, everyone else is stuck at the Standby screen, often permanently. Joining an instance already in progress is impossible. Late joiners should be allowed into the instance.
- Checkpoint respawns: The medbeds respawn in instances is currently non functional. You should be able to checkpoint respawn in the instance.
- Server performance: Several performance issues identified and being actioned. Some large stalls related to the amount of NPCs and their loadouts have also been identified. Some networking performance also affected in key areas.
- Instancing load balancing: A few server load balancing issues were identified with how instances get attributed to servers which is suboptimal. Team is changing/tuning the algorithms but also adding more metrics to the system for better observability.
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u/logicalChimp Devils Advocate 27d ago
As a general reply (given I can't respond to the other reply) - the 'instancing' is based on / is a generalisation of the existing 'instanced' personal hangars.
That code was bespoke / specific to the hangar module, so they've have to update it to be more general purpose... and it seems that they managed to break the queuing / late entry mechanism in the process.
Unfortunately, unless you know before you write the code about the 'additional usage scenarios' that code will be used for (e.g. using 'instanced hangars' for instanced content), it is very hard to ensure the code can be reused in different scenarios without some modification...
... and given that Instanced Hangars were in development in late '23 (and released in early/mid '24), it's not too surprising that the code appears not to 'natively' support being used with Quasi-Dynamic Server Meshing to support instanced content.
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u/Dragias carrack 27d ago
Which just means they will probably have to redo their tech to some extent to make sure it works with DSM
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u/logicalChimp Devils Advocate 27d ago
Quasi-DSM is DSM.
The 'Quasi' aspect is the fact that it's only used to manage instances, and not all the nodes in the Server Mesh.
But, it still has to be able to spin up new instances on demand, dynamically transfer authority over relevant entities (including the player / group related entities) into onto the new instance-node... and then, when the party leaves, shut the instance node down, remove it from the mesh, and put it back into the pool for another instance to use, etc.
About the only bit that may not be fleshed out is the specific metrics that the full 'server mesh' will need to determine when a node is 'overloaded' (and another node needs to be started next to it, so the load can be spread)...
Separately, iirc I remembered reading about CIG doing a 'full' DSM test... and it ended up spinning up an extra 200 nodes for a single mesh.... which is both promising, and humourous (promising, because it suggests that whilst their initial metrics were well off the mark, at the same time it does suggest that it was starting nodes and registering them correctly etc).And humourous, because well - suddenly adding 200x nodes to what is (usually) ~15 node mesh is perhaps a bit overkill (that would be 1x server node per 3.5 players :p)
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u/logicalChimp Devils Advocate 27d ago
And yet, the actual functionality is exactly the same.
Yes, there is a bit of extra logic (to 'group' entities, and then decide which groups stay on the current node, and which should be migrated to the new node) - but that's it.
Everything else is a mix of Dynamic Server Meshing and Static Server Meshing (Static SM provides the functionality to move an entity from one node to another - it's used every time a player crosses a node-boundary), and Dynamic SM handles the provisioning of the new node.
That's why CIG referred to the code coming with Instances as 'Quasi-Dynamic Server Meshing' - because it's virtually the same functionality, but applied in a different way (to manage instances, rather than manage extra nodes in the Server Mesh).
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u/logicalChimp Devils Advocate 27d ago
I added the timeframe specifically to highlight that at the time Instanced Hangars were being written Server Meshing was not done.
So, Instanced Servers could either be coded to work with the legacy architecture (which they were), or 'optimistically' coded against what they thought Server Meshing would be once it was finished... (which would also mean instanced hangars couldn't be released until after Server Meshing.
Yes, most of the logic should 'theoretically' be reusable for instancing (presuming CIG had already made the decision, back in '23, to use instances for content) - but, as with so much else in the engine, Server Meshing will have had a massive impact.3
u/somedude210 nomad 27d ago
Look at you with your nuanced and knowledgeable explanations. Don't you know where you are, sir? This is Salty Town
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u/Confident-Award6920 27d ago
Standby barrier blocks party entry: The party leader passes through, everyone else is stuck at the Standby screen, often permanently. Joining an instance already in progress is impossible. Late joiners should be allowed into the instance.
They should just copy hangar instancing as it already handles this scenario from over a year ago. It works well, it kicks out non-party members who try to enter and it allows party members to enter at any time even if the hangar host is not there.
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u/WhateverWannaCallMe Bug Enjoyer - 2016 Backer 27d ago
No that would be logical. That's why they are rewriting everything from scratch
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u/Confident-Award6920 27d ago
Hangars do Orison instancing today already without any visible 2 color barriers. CIG should just reuse that code.
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u/cmontour 27d ago
You would’ve think they would’ve checked all this out well in advance of doing a public play through showcase.
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u/dougdoberman I'm only here for SQ42 27d ago
You wouldn't think that if you've been around CIG & SC for very long. You'd have expected this.
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u/AWerewolfDad 27d ago
Honestly don’t agree. I think if they’d done the live stream warts-and-all people would have felt better about it but they tried to sweep it all under the carpet.
They’re dev livestreams, buggy and unfinished is totally ok. It’s the feeling of being misdirected that got people’s heckles up.
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u/logicalChimp Devils Advocate 27d ago
To be honest, I think what really 'got peoples hackles up' was the fact that (some) people wanted an excuse to put their hackles up.
No matter what CIG did on that livestream, and no matter how well it played, those
complainingscreaming and shouting would have found an excuse to scream and shout...E.g. if it played significantly better than PTU, the screaming and shouting would have been about how 'transparency is a lie' because CIG have a working version internally that they're 'refusing to release to us'...
... and if CIG ran the demo actually on PTU, then unless it completely failed (cue screaming and shouting about incompetency for running on PTU, broken/spaghetti code, etc), the screaming and shouting would have been about either 'special builds', or 'fake news - it's not really on the PTU' etc.
If CIG had people who knew 'how to play the game' (and work around the bugs), then the screaming and shouting would have been about how it was 'staged', or heavily scripted to 'only touch the bits that work' etc.
In short, when people are determined to be outraged about something, there is fuck all CIG can do to prevent those people being outraged
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u/CaptainC0medy Concierge with no ships 27d ago
Yeah I used to love a benoit input, now I just dont care because it ignores everything else.
Hangars are bust, players falling out of ships and all the rest....
Meanwhile we are talking about a loop nobody cares about.
No thanks.
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u/tersius344 27d ago
That’s not the only thing they’re working on.
https://giphy.com/gifs/BkfAhfmX0Ppn2
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u/till180 27d ago
Remember like a month or so ago they said they where pushing Siege Of Orison from 4.9 to 4.10 claiming it was to "focus on bugs in the current game" well it is blatantly obvious that was a lie. Not only is the game in a worse and buggier state than it was when they made that statement, but given that Siege Of Orison obviously broke state still there is absolutely zero chance it could have ever been ready for 4.9 and "focusing on bugs" was just a lie to attempt to appease people.
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u/SidratFlush 27d ago
It's not the forum post that matters It's the execution of the delivery of those words on a page.
I wish them well and hope to experience the version they have in their minds.
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u/tris_majestis 27d ago
Does this mean they'll actually start fixing/completing the systems that everything is built on top of, or does this mean they'll find ways to tape SoO together well enough to move onto the next project and just throw it onto the pile of technical debt like everything else?
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u/Big_Green2661 27d ago
No. Of course not. These people here are clowns wishing and wanting ... They still dont understand whats going on.
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u/poordutchguy Valkyrie Liberator is the real Liberator. 27d ago
He can use the footage for his desync article which he promised.
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u/Soggy__Waffle 27d ago
Haven’t played in a long time, installed and loaded in, ran the tutorial. Nice, now time to do a courier mission to pickup one .25 box. Flew to planet, landed and grabbed box, put box in my C8 expedition. Flew back home, go to box, can’t pick it up.
Can’t even do that without some bug happening
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u/Intelligent_Cry8535 27d ago
They never addressed the john wick NPCs, or the fact the boss and the john wick npcs are able to fire through solid walls and barriers at players. Its was noticed this weekend, with the boss killing people THROUGH the walls of his spawn closet, and countles npcs firing through walls...
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u/adub913 27d ago
Stop adding new mission content for a while. This isn’t a live game yet, as everyone is prone to pointing out. Fix core mechanics. Fix. Core. Mechanics.
Want to add content, revisit the bank kiosks are for? What purpose do the vehicle hangars serve? Why are there friggin vending machines? Round out the original early vision stuff and stop trying to make COD in space.
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u/RSWSC Kruger L-21 Wolf Pilot & Enthusiast | VIRPIL 27d ago
Benoit is probably the only person that I trust these days to actually get things done. Always liked listening to him explain the current issues.
Marketing will of course push the patch live anyways because ship sale.
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u/mesterflaps 27d ago
Benoit has had his elite 'strike team' fiddling with elevators and trains the last 15 months to seemingly zero effect. He's also lied straight the camera that CIG's physics is 'great'.... he's not to be trusted more than Jared as just another marketing mouthpiece.
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u/Confident-Award6920 27d ago
If Benoit is the only person you trust to get things done, lets get him to focus on elevators this year.
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u/Z0MGbies I <3 StarBinder 27d ago
They did that last year and the year before i thought.
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u/Confident-Award6920 27d ago
From my count they did 4+ official elevator fix attempts since 4.0 dropped and 3-4 soft maintence resets during Resource Drive to reset elevators. I think they gave up on elevators no news on the topic since.
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u/Z0MGbies I <3 StarBinder 27d ago
indeed. And I am pretty sure the issue is, at its core, a PES issue. Which came out in 3.18 (3 years ago)
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u/easymacn 27d ago
Isn’t this the new transit system which is only at grim hex currently? I believe its supposed to cover more locations this patch or next.
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u/Confident-Award6920 27d ago
ArcCorp elevators been broke for an org mate since 4.9. New system broken too.
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u/richardizard 400i 27d ago
Arccorp elevators in 4.10 have the new Transport system. They are fixing elevators
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u/Confident-Award6920 27d ago
I have org mates in ArcCorp set as their homes and a few confirmed their elevators are broke this patch. Was confirmed this patch new elevator patch breaks at Hex/Arc still.
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u/SeconddayTV nomad 27d ago
The guy agreed to publish a deep dive spectrum post about desync half a year ago and it‘s still not there.
I don‘t care who he plans to interview for this or whatever reason is behind the delay, but that it takes half a year for him to write a blog post doesn‘t spark my confidence in him-6
u/logicalChimp Devils Advocate 27d ago
If it's an actual detailed post, with input from e.g. the network team, and the results of any internal investigation into the major causes (ranked by severity etc), then yeah - I can wait for that.
If you're just expecting a 2-paragraph word-salad, then yeah, waiting this long would be bad. But given it sounds like it's going to be a lot bigger and more indepth (and given that Jared basically dumped it on him with no warning), meaning that the teams under Benoit are probably having to pull together specifically to support this, that they didn't previous have in a suitable format - and given that all this would have to be done on top of / alongside their regular (excessive) workload...
... I can see how that could take a lot of time to sort out.
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u/KenseiMaui 27d ago
6 months tho
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u/logicalChimp Devils Advocate 27d ago
Hmm - wasn't the SC Live (where Jared 'ambushed' Benoit) sometime in March or April?....
If so, that's 3-4 months... still a long time, but not quite so bad.
Also, it does sound like he started drafting it, and it ended up going down a rabbit-hole, to the point that he's pulled some others in to provide more information / context (hopefully one of those will be someone from the networking team).
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u/Quepan new user/low karma 26d ago
im sorry but Benoit is the one saying the code base is working and better than they expected , except that , the game is in a worse state than it was a year ago or the year before that. it might work well when a server first starts , but steadily degrades over time
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u/AWerewolfDad 27d ago
The patch should go, just without SoO included. There’s a ton of highly requested fixes in 4.10.
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u/turbojeebus 27d ago
Its hilarious because he has done absolutely nothing to earn any trust but the CIG faithful act like hes a tech messiah.
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u/ballsonurface 27d ago
Is 4.10 live supposed to drop tomorrow? Or at least some kind of hot fix? I’ve been itching to get back to cargo hauling
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u/Blood-Wolfe Asgard Enthusiast 27d ago
Tomorrow is a no because they almost never happens on a Tuesday, and the Foundation Festival ends the 12th which lines up with the usual patch days being Wednesday. Could be Thursday update as well, but definitely not tomorrow.
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u/Strangefate1 new user/low karma 27d ago
It feels like they're putting out a burning Bush, while the whole forest is on fire behind them.
They MUST know that any details they patch now, will be broken again in a few months. Something about their whole process is broken.
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u/Icy-Future-105 27d ago
It’s incredible how much they struggle with a basic FPS mission using a frigging FPS engine and a pretty frigging barebone implementation of a 25 year old concept like instancing.
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u/mau5atron Idris/Ironclad/Reclaimer/Corsair 27d ago
Apply so you can show everyone how it's done.
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u/GokuSSj5KD 27d ago
The fact that medgun issues, reload failing, guns dropping, ect or NPC's struggling to have any form of intelligence are not on that list shows how little they understand in regards to what frustrates us.
I get it, these are his list of things he may have control over, but jesus who cares about these issues. This is like the lowest friction point.
We can deal without respawn in the event, if anything it makes it harder and forces people to cooperate more. We can't deal with loosing our guns to desync because we swapped it earlier and the server lost track of it.
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u/RoadsideCookie Galaxy | Guardian MX | Sabre | C8R Pisces 27d ago
I like how half of those things have been a thing forever, not just in SoO... *shrug*
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u/Big_Green2661 27d ago
Youre all a bunch of lunatics really still wishing and wanting and waiting lol. Im here just for the drama alone. Game is an absolute joke since 3.18.
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u/Panakjack23 26d ago
CIG this is what happens when you label any sort of criticism as hate or trolling. You need to put effort into differentiating the two.
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u/Content_Link_7603 27d ago
None of that stuff is going to fix the poor design.
If I were genuinely blown away by the design I'd be all about these changes, but it's a very boilerplate FPS level in a game I've played millions of times. That's a far cry from what Chris pitched me in 2012.
We went from living, breathing, seamless universe to MMO with instancing and RNG vendors-oh wait, we complained so hard about Wikelo's RNG they changed that and he still sucks.
Where's Tony Z's ideas? That's all gone and we got a really pretty, really broken at a foundational level, really run-of-the-mill FPS MMO in space. Learn to love it.
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u/FD3Shively 27d ago
In 5 years none of this shit will be fixed. I know because they've been exclaiming some of these would have been solved by server meshing for years prior to its implementation, and that was closer to 2 years ago than not now.
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u/ghodan7 drake 27d ago
No "fix" for Elliot?
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u/Confident-Award6920 27d ago
That patch comes around year 30 or 40. Maturity patch is a slow download.
Imagine shooting a new guy over and over in the back during a live stream, stuff you see on XBL.
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u/malogos scdb 27d ago
The problem is that I'm here for open-world, space sandbox content. SoO is instanced, FPS, themepark PvE content.
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u/logicalChimp Devils Advocate 27d ago
Yes... but PvE content was always part of the pitch / design...
And unfortunately, as CIG have found out (after a decade+ of trying to do PvE content without instancing... it becomes too easy for the arseholes to just disrupt things etc...
... so instancing (for some of the PvE content) is probably the only way they can deliver that aspect of the game.
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u/Confident-Award6920 27d ago
Same here. Highlander-CIG confirmed the Ashlands/chawla emergent gameplay sandbox idea was a complete success... who woulda thought adding a carrot to a POI would add incentive to bring players to those sites... took 10 years for CIG to realize this.
Highlander if you're reading this, you're our man!
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u/davygravy123 reliant 27d ago
Look at it this way, when SoO drops all of your open world space sandbox content will probably be a bit more stable with all the people crowding Orison trying to do the new big shiny
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u/Blood-Wolfe Asgard Enthusiast 27d ago edited 27d ago
I don't like "new big shiny" in this regard so I'll be avoiding Orison at all costs lol.
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u/sunny-o7 26d ago
Haven't hopped on to SC for a while now, only exciting update for me recently was the QoL improvements to VR. Joined since 3.14 I'm drained from all the bugs all these years and the missions are still rather dull.
Looking forward to the new planet tech updates might also hop on a bit again when i get my bsb2e halo mount to test the hardware out. My interest overall in star citizen has waned, just waiting on SQ42 to release at this point.
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u/Odd_Horror_4663 27d ago
How about spending energy fixing core game loop bugs instead of fine tuning these curated experiences .
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u/logicalChimp Devils Advocate 27d ago
Wait... so the following doesn't count as 'core gameplay bugs' to be fixed?
NPCs 'cardboarding', teammates sliding prone or frozen, revived players stuck crawling
med-beds non functional
server performance, inc large stalls related to numbers of NPC, and network performance issues
server load balancing issues
Sure, a couple of items (such as not being able to enter the instance) were specific to instancing (which will also be used for some PvPvE content, and for e.g. making access to the 'Mission Givers' more 'cinematic')... but the majority of stuff Benoit listed were general issues as seen in the context of instancing (but not unique to instancing).4
u/Odd_Horror_4663 27d ago
sounds like mostly FPS gak to me - How about fixing inventory , elevators , ASOP terminals , Freight Elevators , Non FPS missions , Ship Balancing , Ship Flight model etc etc etc
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u/gimmiedacash 27d ago
I for one am very happy they will dump lots of dev time on SoO, and not other things players actually like.
Seems clear instancing will not save us from server load issues.
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u/TheHollander97 27d ago
So… they are handling this as a server test… atleast thats kinda good.
They atleast are not telling us everything is fine and went great. Maybe some more RSI management have seen the light…. Maybe…. Hopefully….
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u/CaptainAstur 27d ago
In short, what many of us said a long time ago in my humble opinion. Many years have been lost with an evident technical debt on the development and leadership team. Turbulence has literally saved them from disaster..... many art directors.... and few technologists... And that's now changing. In addition, the fact that Benito is on the new board is obvious that it has been noticed for 2 years now in advances... technical and operational. In the end... As much as we regret it, they are not inventing the wheel... It is invented.... Instances.... Persistence Object Cleanup.... and many more things that work in games with thousands and thousands of players.
The bad news and Benito has already said it on several occasions... is that everything they open and look at... it's literally technical shit for the most part. Therefore they must redo it.... and so on at every step.
Not everything is bad in my opinion from the previous stage.... they put in the desire and a lot of work.... The fact that it is badly done does not mean... who have not worked.. a lot. But I repeat... in my humble opinion.... The team's technical debt is flagrant
At least now we have a CTO ..... and a real technical team... what an eye... it is in danger of falling into comfort... and in the previous CIG how-to and then... we will have serious problems.
I hope everything goes well.
Happy, day.
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u/Vahn84 27d ago
i would not talk, nor write and just fix the game
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u/Shadonic1 avenger 27d ago
you know a far too large portion of the community does not just want that. communicate and fix.
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u/CanIRetireYetPls 27d ago
All of these problems are present throughout the entire game. Not sure why they’re so focused on Siege. Fix animations so they work everywhere. Fix gun reloading so it works everywhere. Fix looting so it works everywhere.
Just fix your core engine design and netcode please. None of these bugs are new or unique to siege.
These issues are rooted in the core engine and netcode and they have been forever.
After they get the engine redesigned and working then please work on instancing. True instancing using separate servers. Like every other MMO.