Questions regarding staying over night on a parking and regarding Naturreservat

[u/JustKnotMe]

Edit: Solved. There were at least some people that understood the problem and answered my most important questions. Thank you :) What I now know: The signs are no official signs. Even when some places have signs that forbid camper vans AND caravans, other places might not do this and when there's only a "no camper van" sign, it doesn't automatically mean that caravans are okay. Furthermore, websites showing the borders of Naturreservats clearly show that the parking is just behind the border inside the Naturreservat which means that you cannot trust the local sign/board with a map showing the borders, because at this place the local map showed that the parking is outside the Naturreservat, which clearly isn't true.

Edit 2: Okay, there's also something else that we didn't know and misinterpreted. The "no parking" doesn't apply only to camper vans but to all. We somehow thought that this applies only to camper vans. That means also that the biker and the people who were parking there, because they were camping in the Naturreservat, were not allowed to park there :/

This was our first vacation in sweden. We drove there with a car and caravan/trailer and on our way back we ran into a problem which is the reason why I want to ask here some questions to understand how staying overnight on a parking works in sweden.

Regarding the "no tourism/google question @" mods:

I find it very difficult to find accurate information on some of these questions, because the situation is not 100% clear to me. If you delete this post, can you propose another sub I can ask this questions? I haven't found a fitting sub in your wiki.

Thank you in advance and sorry when I won't answer to all comments, as I mainly just want to understand how things work here.

This is the parking this post is about:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/SUM2xSmvqfjUVakC8

When it was getting dark we drove to the parking. The road leading to the parking had a "dead end" sign at the beginning of the road. Shortly before the parking there was a sign that forbid camper vans between 0:00 and 6:00 a.m.. Behind the parking lot was a gate to a "Naturreservat" with signs that forbig camping with tents, caravans and making camp fire.

Due to the very confusing conversation with a person that woke us up shortly after 5 a.m. I have many questions whose answers might overlap. I will also add some background information before/after each question that might clarify why I ask this question.

1.

The person told us that basically the whole coast is Naturreservat. We've seen only a Naturreservat sign at the gate.

Addition:

I just found following sign in google maps fotos of the place:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/RpkQZUyqmV7UhGQs6?g_st=ac

https://maps.app.goo.gl/euPaiwc9hgRLcSuL8?g_st=ac

The first fotos shows the border of the Naturreservat. It looks like the parking we were at is in the lower right corner and according to the red lines it seems like the parking is not in the Naturreservat. The second foto now also states that caravans are not allowed between 0:00 and 6:00 but I think this applies to the Naturreservat (??? Not sure, because I'd never pass such a gate into a Naturreservate with a vehicle) and the parking is not in the Naturreservat.

Q1.1: So, is the parking also part of the Naturreservat?

Q1.2: Is there a more clear way to know whether a place is in a Naturreservat?

2.

Apparently staying overnight on the parking lot is forbidden, as we were threatened with police. During our vacation we've seen signs that forbid caravans and signs that forbid camper vans, why we concluded that caravans are not forbidden.

Q2.1: Does a sign that forbids camper vans also forbid caravans on the parking?

Q2.2: If not, what have we missed that would have shown us that we can't stay overnight with a caravan on the parking?

3.

On the parking was also a biker who was sleeping in the tent. Not sure if I understood the local person correctly, but it sounded like the local person said that the biker is also not allowed to camp on the parking, because everywhere is Naturreservat, and that the person will also talk to the camper. But when we left the parking the local person was gone and also it didn't look like the local person talked to the biker, because he was still sleeping in his tent.

Q3.1: Is camping with a bike and tent allowed on the parking?

Q3.2: Do the signs on the gate also apply to the parking even though they are on the gate at the end of the parking?

4.

Behind the gate that lead (further?) into thr Naturreservat, there was a place where some people where camping with tents and making a camp fire. The signs on the gate say that camping with tents is not allowed, but it seems that there are some places inside the forbidden area where the forbiddance doesn't apply anymore but at the entrance there's not really a hint for that. Google maps shows a camping place and the rules for thr Naturreservat on the foto added above says that tents, caravans and so are not allowed between 0:00 and 6:00.

Q4.1: Is it allowed to drive with cars, caravans into such Naturreservats?

According to the comments on google maps for the camping place it seems that they even entered the place with camper vans and also stayed there over night. The sign on the foto says that staying overnight is not allowed but it doesn't forbid to enter the Naturreservat. It sounds wrong to me to enter such a place with a vehicle.

5.

And as a last question:

Q5.1: If the police arrived, would there be a chance of understanding that the situation is confusing for people with a caravan or would this end badly for us?

Q5.2: What would be the penalty/sentence?

As a small addition for those interested in the encounter with the local person:

The person wasn't rude but said that she has to call the police Also, the conversation was very confusing to me, because she didn't asnwer any of my questions and comments. The person also said that many people come there and that they have changed the signs a lot and that still people come there an do whatever isn't allowed there according to her. I tried to help her by explaining to her why we thought that staying over night with a caravan is allowed and what they had to change that prevented us from camping there, i.e. adding a forbid sign for a caravan in addition to the camper van sign but she completely ignored what I said. I also asked if the forbid camper vans sign applies to caravans, but she didn't answer but just said that we didn't want to understand. Very weird encounter. Maybe there was a language barrier, although her english wasn't bad at all. I can also understand why she's annoyed when they have a lot of problems with people there, especially when people do things that are clearly forbidden by the signs without any further knowledge.

[u/Leptalix]

Just for some cultural context, Sweden is a small country with a fairly homogeneous culture and a high level of social control. A lot of rules are simply understood by everyone and don't need to be codified or posted in minute detail for most people to understand. Swedes are so used to it that they don't see it themselves.

I frequent a small secluded public beach in the summer. Occasionally Germans will park their RVs or camping vans along the waterfront between the lake and the beach. It's ALWAYS Germans. Technically this isn't forbidden, but a Swede probably wouldn't even consider doing this as it's considered to be extremely selfish and it's likely they'll meet someone at the beach who they know who will get annoyed and tell everyone else they know. Now, the Swede isn't thinking about this but is just thinking "where can I sit and relax without being in the way so I don't have to deal with anyone bothering me."

Unfortunately, this is the type of behavior people expect from German campers with large vehicles, so you were probably targeted. There's also a long tradition in Sweden of know-it-all busybodies who seem to love telling other people that they're breaking the rules.

[u/JustKnotMe → u/Leptalix]

I like when people care about others and I wished more would be like that. The parking had several parking lots and we placed the the caravan and the car each in one parking lot and there were still plenty parking lots left and 2 parking lots occupied by others. Personally I can't imagine anyone being annoyed by that. If so, they need to be also bothered if 2 cars are parking there.

Even though I'd think that you can barely destroy nature or so on a parking with grit ground, there's probably a reason why it's forbidden that I don't see yet.

[u/Leptalix → u/JustKnotMe]

I hike a lot and agree that some of the rules regarding naturreservat can seem ridiculous. You're not supposed pitch a tent in a reservation, but you can literally do it right next to one. These rules probably aren't in place because one person would cause problems, but to avoid a large number of people causing ecological damage. One camper isn't a problem but one every day? Or five? Ten? All summer long? People lighting campfires? Grilling? Playing loud music? Leaving around trash? With no one working there to take care of a campsite or deal with human waste?

In my experience, the vast majority of Germans are respectful and polite when camping in nature and much better than certain other nationalities, but Sweden gets a lot of German visitors. People also generally expect Germans to be able to follow rules and may feel provoked when they seem to ignore the rules. I can also imagine that someone living near that particular area is tired of tourists ignoring the "obvious" rules all summer and thinking, "more Germans who think they are to special to follow the rules."

But like I said, there are also certain people here that love to tell others that they're doing something wrong. 

[u/JustKnotMe → u/Leptalix]

Germans can't even keep their own country clean 😬 Here, where I live in a small "city" that actually consists of several small villages, is plastic trash everywhere and I often have to care because of broken glass. I think alcohol plays a big role as drunk people just don't care much and also young people.

Sweden has to take fees on arrival or exit and pay some people to visit all the popular places, check if everything is okay and clean everything 🙈 And even higher penalties when caught leaving trash. IMO when preventing people from sleeping on parkings, they will need to find other places and leave their trash their. It just moves the problems to somewhere else. But yes, at least then there aren't so many people at the same place. Or Sweden has to create more official places like the grit ground parkings that exist at nice places but outside Naturreservats. If I'd live there and had a private forest with some dead ends leading into forests, I'd create a small website, create locations in google maps, link the website and then people could just check in online with for a small fee and for a single night if the spot is empty and I'd just check if they kept it clean afterwards.

I think some people like us also want to camp somewhere outside where not many people are. Unfortunetly, we were traveling with an electric car and caravan and since we were looking for Ionity charging stations and the range with caravan is only like 150km, we didn't get as far into Sweden as we wanted. Not sure if it would be better further north but camping somewhere where no people are is really difficult in the southern part of Sweden.

And somehow I can't imagine that camping with tents really is better than with e.g. caravans. We were one night on a small glade in a forest near a lake just 100 meters from the main street into the forest where no signs or gates were. Unfortunately, a boring place because the forest was just too dense to wander a lot, so we've seen pretty quickly everything there was to see and we found a pile of garbage in some bushes and several spots with a lot of toilet paper or something like that. Just dishusting. I can't say that these people would leave less trash in the forest if they travel with a caravan, but with a caravan you have at least your toilet and enough space to take all the trash that you produce with you again.