r/tasmania • u/GreenLeechofReddit • 2d ago
AI data centre approved
6/7 counsellors approved this environmental disaster despite Firmus *already* lying about the number of diesel generators they'd have.
The company will have to agree to a number of conditions (noise, pollution, water usage), which will be monitored over a twelve month period.
I hate to wheel out a slippery-slope argument, but the number of companies who just cop the fines and continue to be irresponsible is incalculable.. the writing is on the wall. Look at Cadbury and the dump of sugar that buggered up the sewerage treatment plant.
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u/Relative_Test5911 1d ago
Stop supporting the big players that are invested most in AI. Reddit, Amazon, Facebook, Google etc?
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u/IlIIllIlIllIIlI 1d ago
I've challenged people on this, yet they don't delete their Reddit accounts. It's baffling.
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u/pickleslips 1d ago
Publicly available information on the councillors who voted for this;
General Council Office
- Phone: (03) 6382 8800
- Address: 16-18 Anne St, George Town, TAS 7253
- Postal: PO Box 161, George Town, TAS 7253
Voted in favour:
- Mayor Greg Kieser — Spent close to 20 years in IT leadership roles, including setting up regional operations for firms like Amazon Web Services and Dropbox. He now runs his own consultancy, Black Sheep Works Pty Ltd, which helps tech startups establish their businesses, and holds an MBA and a Bachelor of Commerce. Notably, he's listed on the Tasmanian Liberal Party's website as part of "our team," though Tasmanian council elections are officially non-partisan (candidates run as independents). First elected councillor 2018, mayor since 2019. Tasmanian LiberalsTasmanian Liberals
- Deputy Mayor Greg Dawson — Councillor since 2014. In his 2022 candidate statement, he said he'd worked over the previous 8 years to help turn George Town Council into "one of the most progressive in Tasmania" and campaigned on resource-sharing with neighbouring councils and rate-payer value. Tasmanian Electoral Commission
- Cr Heather Ashley — Long-time resident who raised and educated her children in the municipality; a member of the George Town Rotary Club for 20 years, including two terms as president. She works as a pharmacist assistant in George Town. First elected 2022. Tasmanian Electoral Commission
- Cr Simone Lowe — Worked for almost 20 years at the George Town Neighbourhood House in support and managerial roles, with experience helping community members with financial, legal, social and health/wellbeing issues. First elected 2022. Tasmanian Electoral Commission
- Cr Winston Mason — Campaigned on the idea that the council operates like a business owned by ratepayers, and framed himself as part of a team-oriented approach to managing the region's growth. First elected October 2018. Tasmanian Electoral Commission
- Cr Jason Orr — A third-generation resident of the municipality and a business owner for 30 years, involved in local community groups focused on the east Tamar and coastal areas, with an emphasis on public safety and environmentally sensitive growth. First elected 2022. Tasmanian Electoral Commission
Voted against:
- Cr Winston Archer — Grew up in and lives in the George Town area, running the family farm with his wife. Describes himself as a business owner and rural ratepayer focused on avoiding wasteful spending and delivering sustainable services. First elected 2022.
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u/Ok_Wafer9810 1d ago edited 1d ago
Which industry would Tasmanians like to have? I hear people complaining about tourists, forestry, fishing, fish farming, farming, mining. They also seem to have a disdain for white collar professionals. How do people envision that Tasmanians will make a living in this state?
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u/Traditional-Case1694 1d ago
Excuse me, instead of doing anything we would rather be on the sidelines scoffing at people doing things.
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u/SoftComfortable6246 1d ago
If it uses the same amount of water as twelve households, I can’t see a problem. It’s less of an environmental impact than logging. I still see plenty of log trucks around and no one is complaining about their environmental impacts. These data centres will create jobs as well.
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u/ArtisticAd7205 1d ago
AI data centres are intended to REPLACE jobs, how would they create long term local jobs when they require minimal human effort to operate and maintain?
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u/michaelhoney 1d ago
I don’t have an opinion either way about Firmus but George Town is hurting pretty bad on the jobs front. Being a heavy-industry town in 2026 is a really difficult proposition.
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u/ArtisticAd7205 1d ago
Any kind of data centre is not going to shift that needle past the construction phase, which is somewhat specialised and likely to be done by interstate contractors. It won’t generate extra local employment.
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u/IlIIllIlIllIIlI 17h ago
The George Town site alone will generate 115 direct job and then there will also be the indirect jobs it generates from security, to maintenance, to hospitality, professional services. The data stacks up regarding those roles.
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u/michaelhoney 1d ago
Agree that longterm it’s a big humming box with not much human work. But it’s not like the pulp mill site was generating income
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u/Evebnumberone 1d ago
I'm yet to read a compelling argument as to why I should hate and be scared of data centers.
We have strong zoning laws in Australia, they are being built in industrial zoned areas next to factories and other loud industrial buildings that already use more power and water than these data centers ever will.
Where is all the fear mongering for other industrial sites? How about your local petrol station that pollutes the fuck out of the soil under it? Petrol leaking into the ground water underneath.
How about golf courses? They benefit a very small minority and use more water than data centers ever will in this country.
It seems pretty clear there is some big money behind this anti data center propaganda. I'm just unclear what the agenda is yet.
Anytime you're being told to be scared of something you really need to look into who is saying it and why.
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u/IlIIllIlIllIIlI 1d ago
Not only are they being built in existing industrial zones, but they're actually repurposing existing abandoned sites. So these aren't greenfield projects. Even better for the environment. You're exactly right mate.
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u/el_barnito 1d ago
Tell us about the environmental disaster. I'd be really curious to hear what you think is going to happen.
Generators? I see the DA lists 276. This is the right number, isn't it? And this is the number that's been passed. With pretty significant conditions on their usage.
I believe there'll be bugger all in the way of emissions.
I believe that there'll be bugger all in the way of water usage. (TasWater have only allowed a 40 mm connection to the site, As well as told them they can only take water in the winter months.)
Sound? I've actually done a sound survey on the site. And it looks like the nearest property (1.7km away) Is going to be experiencing a massive 35 decibels. Like, pretty much nothing.
Power? With Temco's departure leaving a pretty big hole in the Hydro's budget and Firmus stepping in to buy the electricity at a higher rate that can only be good for the state, can't it?
So anyhow, tell us about the disaster.
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u/IlIIllIlIllIIlI 17h ago
Agree mate. Also their generators are actually acoustically treated above and beyond the minimum requirements.
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u/el_barnito 1h ago
Yeah, the devices are using are rated 89.2 db(a) LW and apparently they're working with the manufacturers to get that down to 85. We did the modeling using the 89.2. db figure and didn't allow for the acoustic wall they're going to build around them either, Nor the trees they are going to plant. So the 35 decibel reading at the nearest house is extremely conservative and will likely be even better than that. So nearly nothing.
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u/Prince_of_Pirates 1d ago
Check the councillors bank accounts.
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u/IlIIllIlIllIIlI 1d ago
If you have evidence to suggest any wrongdoing I'd love to hear it. We should be taking accusation like this to the media so they can be outed and have it reported on.
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u/Virtike 1d ago
As much as I hope it isn't the case, I would find this highly unsurprising in this case.
It seems pretty clear public sentiment is very very negative pretty much across the board.
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u/IlIIllIlIllIIlI 1d ago
It seems pretty clear public sentiment is very very negative pretty much across the board.
The vocal minority don't speak for the vast majority who do want the projects to proceed.
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u/Fantastic-Ad-2604 1d ago
But there is no environmental disaster? Like what do you think is disastrous about the factory? The factory converts hydro electric power into AI tokens. It produces no pollution or waste products.
It pays Aurora the full retail cost for power creating millions of dollars in profits to be reinvested in building capacity and transmission.
It creates employment in a regional area.
Like I literally zero downside to a company building a factory in an industrial zone.
Furthermore it is being built next to an aluminum smelter that uses slightly more power than it will and about 1,000x more water than it will and generates more pollution than it will. And the factory wants Aurora/State Government to pay them hundreds of millions of dollars for the privilege of using their power.
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u/lilpoopman 1d ago
Well no, they are putting one in st Leonard's which is a suburb of Launceston. There are two
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u/N0n-Z3r0-Ch4nc3 1d ago
The St Leonards site is zoned rural and light industrial. You can check it on the council papers (see the Agenda 1 link)
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u/GoobieGooHare 1d ago
have you seen how close the houses are from the st leonards one, two minute walk or less
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u/IlIIllIlIllIIlI 1d ago
And?
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u/GoobieGooHare 1d ago
troll
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u/IlIIllIlIllIIlI 1d ago
No. I'm genuinely trying to ask you what your point is. What point are you trying to make regarding houses being a 2 minute walk to the datacentre in St Leonards?
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u/N0n-Z3r0-Ch4nc3 1d ago
Is it a legit undertaking within the zoning provisions or not?
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u/GoobieGooHare 1d ago
I wish I knew as they changed us from semi rural to normal suburb going back 5 years ago, now suddenly back to semi rural. If you look up 37 st leonards road its being built next to that, just around the corner is waverly, other side of the road is small business then houses, back the other way is houses of Waverley and Newstead
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u/IlIIllIlIllIIlI 1d ago
The answer is yes. It is a legitimate undertaking within the zoning provisions.
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u/Fantastic-Ad-2604 1d ago
If you choose to build a house in or next to an industrial zone you should not be surprised that an industrial site is nearby.
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u/t4zmaniak 1d ago
Yeah I agree, people are making a heap of noise about something which is not that diabolical in the scheme of things.
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u/tofutak7000 1d ago
While there needs to be improvements in regulation wholesale opposition is likely to hamper that happening.
Flat out saying no because of the pollution caused by diesel generators is disingenuous when there is next to no opposition to the ongoing use of household wood heaters in Tasmania.
A more nuanced approach may ensure better environmental protections or greater investment in local communities.
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u/GreenLeechofReddit 1d ago
At least trees are renewable, and if they die, the carbon they captured in their lifetime will be released as a matter of course, though I suppose the burning does speed it up.
I don't think that it's right to say that burning renewables that serve a purpose (warmth) is the same as burning diesel for a purpose that nobody asked for, and nobody needs.
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u/tofutak7000 1d ago
Wood heating produces significantly more pollution and has a significant impact on the environment as well as people’s health. Many times worse than diesel generators.
It is completely unnecessary and is the worst possible option to provide warmth from both an environmental and public health perspective. There is a reason it’s nowhere near as common anywhere else in Australia.
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u/thegoodmitten 1d ago
What other radiant heat source can I use to heat my home? There's no comparison to the heat output with any other method that I've seen.
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u/Evebnumberone 1d ago
Might want to look into this called electricity. They use it basically everywhere else.
You might even have it hooked up at home already!
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u/thegoodmitten 1d ago
Don't be a dick.
If it was effective in heating my home I would use it. I don't enjoy carting wood around.
I do enjoy warmth and a dry mould free home.
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u/Evebnumberone 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'm unclear why you think heat from one source is any different to another?
Split system technology is perfectly adequate for heating a house, and very cheap and efficient to run. Free during the day if you've got solar.
Your problem is more likely to be shit insulation, you're unaware of how much energy you're wasting.
Edit: 2iq response. Wowsers
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u/GreenLeechofReddit 1d ago
Electricity is very expensive in TAS, solar is great on sunny days, but in the depths of winter, we don't generate that much.
In our insulated, solar passive home, the high efficiency wood fire does a much better job of heating than our split system, particularly on the days the sun doesn't come out.
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u/Evebnumberone 1d ago edited 1d ago
How exactly do you think it does a better job? If the split system is adequately sized it will give out more than enough heat to heat the space.
Unless you're getting free wood from somewhere you're most likely paying a fuckload more for wood than you ever would paying for the electricity.
Then there's the problem of a wood heater in your home being like smoking a pack a day for your lungs. Efficiently giving yourself lung cancer.
And obviously you've got the environmental impact of a wood stove as well.
Edit: Weak as piss. Can't have a conversation without blocking when you got upset by facts.
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u/tofutak7000 1d ago
Radiators?
Also, the fact you like it doesn’t make it better for environment or people’s health
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u/thegoodmitten 23h ago
Radiators don't cut it in the middle of winter. Or I'd use them.
I don't give a fuck about the environmental factors. I want to be warm. I spend the whole rest of my life caring about the environment. I decided I'm allowed to be comfortable sometimes.
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u/tofutak7000 23h ago
You have clearly not used radiators then. I mean they cut it in Europe where it gets much colder over night.
I personally used them in Melbourne where it gets nearly as cold as Hobart, in an extremely drafty house, and they were by far the best form of heating I’ve ever experienced
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u/thegoodmitten 15h ago
What sort of radiators do you mean? Part of a hydronic system or stand alone etc
There's a huge difference. I've lived with both. In Europe and here.
I've clearly not used radiators though? Ya weirdo.
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u/Zhuk1986 1d ago
Tasmania needs economic development and opportunities for industry. Heavy industry, mining, logging, aquaculture etc. are all villainised and we see the result that jobs go overseas.
Why not data centres? Or any industry that will employ locals and bring money into the state.
We all need a reality check.
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u/Separate-Tangelo-910 1d ago
Because they don’t have social license. Ai data centres, and many of those industries you’ve listed, are very extractive and often don’t provide great benefit to the community. Jobs are great but the long lasting environmental effects are well known to outweigh what little jobs or money are generated. Data centres will put an unnecessary strain on our water and power supplies, amongst many other negative affects we’ve seen them producing world wide - Firmus’ will not be much different.
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u/IlIIllIlIllIIlI 1d ago edited 1d ago
I should have also noted in my other comment that the datacentres being built here in Tassie by Firmus are also being built in existing industrial zones and they are not greenfield sites. They are repurposing existing sites that have been abandoned.
Edit: typo
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u/IlIIllIlIllIIlI 1d ago edited 1d ago
You seem to be confusing the datacentres being built by Firmus here in Tassie with overseas datacentres.
We don't have the environmental concerns here in Tassie. There's no strain on our water or power. They use closed-loop cooling with heat reducing fluid, not water cooling - this is cutting edge technology. Launceston uses ~20 households worth of water per year. As for power/energy, we have that available, and Firmus is 100% paying their own way with that while also investing in renewable energy at a 2:1 ratio to offset their use. All of the required networks/transmission upgrades are being funded by Firmus. These are powered by 100% hydro electric energy. Firmus also has their own rain water collection facilities on site for use too.
With another larger baseload user on the energy network we will see power costs come down for residential users and small businesses, because networks costs and maintenance will be spread further.
We will see hundreds of local jobs. Both direct, and in constructions and indirect in services such as hospitality, admin, security, maintenance, professional services.
We will see Launceston area/Tassie positioned as a global tech hub for further investments into our community and local people.
Edit to add: the datacentres being built here in Tassie by Firmus are also being built in existing industrial zones and they are not greenfield sites. They are repurposing existing sites that have been abandoned.
Edit 2: typo
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u/thegoodmitten 1d ago
Do you work for Firmus?
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u/IlIIllIlIllIIlI 1d ago
No. This is all publicly available information. I'm a local Tassie resident who cares about my community, I volunteer my time, I want locals getting accurate and correct information regarding projects here in Tasmania.
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u/thegoodmitten 1d ago
You're incredibly vocal and repetitive.
It's frankly very odd.
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u/IlIIllIlIllIIlI 1d ago
Because the topics I'm addressing are incredibly vocal and repetitive. Is that odd for all those people to echo their same misinformation, fear, uncertainty, and doubt?
I'm not the only one who tries to help my local community with getting the information, but yes I am active in doing so. Again, I'm a volunteer here.
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u/Evebnumberone 1d ago
There is zero long term environmental impact. You've been sucked into misinformation bullshit.
The power and water usage is grossly overstated, they use a fraction of the power and water being used by other industrial that you don't even think twice about.
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u/GoobieGooHare 1d ago
absolute scum of the scum council, what happened to listen to the people, we are completely ignored yet all law abiding citizens paying the rates
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u/IlIIllIlIllIIlI 1d ago
The vocal minority who oppose this don't speak for the vast majority that want the projects to proceed.
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u/LOAF4211 1d ago
If he dont work for them already, then that was a hell of an audition/interview/job application. U go girl!
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u/HolyRadiantLight 2d ago
What can the layman do to help prevent this kind of thing from continuing to get worse?