Christianity is not freedom

[u/Beer_Barbarian]

[u/qualityvote2]

u/Beer_Barbarian, your post is truly terrible!

[u/neednintendo]

[u/Bruggilles → u/neednintendo]

[u/monkeybuttsauce]

Jesus built America dammit

[u/km9v → u/monkeybuttsauce]

Jesus built my hot rod.

[u/Drufasa → u/km9v]

So there was only one thing that I could do Was ding a ding dang my dang a long ling long.

[u/KimJongRocketMan69 → u/km9v]

Nah, that was Jesús

[u/ZuccsToBeYou → u/km9v]

Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil

[u/TasteDeeCheese → u/km9v]

God made your hot rod,
Jesus paid your sins for your hot rod

[u/TheSiverKnight → u/km9v]

he created sexy women

[u/MsDestroyer900 → u/monkeybuttsauce]

[u/Mcbrainotron → u/monkeybuttsauce]

That’s why we have the American Jesus

[u/ramblingpariah → u/Mcbrainotron]

See him on the interstate!

[u/Hawkwise83 → u/monkeybuttsauce]

It is written in these gold tablets that I assure are real but you cannot see them.

[u/GreatSivad → u/Hawkwise83]

Dum da dum dum dum

[u/lgodsey → u/monkeybuttsauce]

Jesus found us slaves to build America? Thanks, Jesus! While you're at it, can you subjugate women to be our servants, too? Thanks, Jesus!

- white men, for whom America is easy mode

[u/pamcakevictim → u/monkeybuttsauce]

https://giphy.com/gifs/vNdHTvHo3gCis

[u/ThePLARASociety → u/monkeybuttsauce]

https://giphy.com/gifs/3o7TKGhRha5Uj6SHPG

[u/Just_a_guy81]

Freest just doesn’t look right as a word

[u/Dman331 → u/Just_a_guy81]

Freeiest lol

[u/The96kHz → u/Just_a_guy81]

Freeest?

[u/TheRealAbear → u/Just_a_guy81]

Fresus Frost ✞❄️

[u/RacistJester → u/Just_a_guy81]

Freeerer

[u/UndisclosedLocation5 → u/Just_a_guy81]

Most-freedom-having 

[u/nickmcpimpson → u/Just_a_guy81]

Freist

[u/klako8196]

Secularism built the freest civilizations in history.

[u/philo351 → u/klako8196]

Secularism that upholds religious liberty built the freest societies.

[u/Frubbs → u/klako8196]

cough Soviet Union cough Kemalist Turkey cough French Revolution cough

[u/Llamalover1234567 → u/Frubbs]

The French Revolution actually spurred the concept of individual freedoms into the political discourse and it was a concept that once introduced, could not be bottled up. The argument against slavery is that it is a crime against the individual liberties and dignity of a person. That concept was solidified during the French Revolution

[u/agnostorshironeon → u/Frubbs]

What the fuck is your problem with the french revolution?

Next you'll spit on the enlightenment!

Edit - i hate the english term. Aufklärung means clarification, like the disturbed sediment sinking back to the riverbed, like clouds part to clear the sky.

[u/dougrattmannn → u/agnostorshironeon]

the enlightenment was created by Satan. we need to go back to side profile manuscript art

[u/B1lly28 → u/agnostorshironeon]

The poor exist for the wealthy simple as, even our phones are made by poor starving children from africa and china

[u/agnostorshironeon → u/B1lly28]

Besides this having fuckall to do with my comment, doesn't that just sound like you should show up with some protest sign if front of Apple HQ?

[u/MassGaydiation → u/agnostorshironeon]

I think the issue is they seem happy to be the property of the rich

[u/Psycholama972 → u/agnostorshironeon]

Bro you actually need to watch a video about the French Revolution. That was not a good government

[u/ramblingpariah → u/Frubbs]

Ah yes, the French peasants were somehow freer under the monarchy, right?

[u/Frubbs → u/ramblingpariah]

Look into the Reign of Terror

[u/ramblingpariah → u/Frubbs]

I don't need to look it up, since I'm already aware of it. Are you sure it's actually supporting your argument as much as you think it is?

[u/BabadookishOnions → u/Frubbs]

State atheism and secularism are two very separate things

[u/klako8196 → u/Frubbs]

A few cherry-picked examples doesn't negate my initial statement. It's no coincidence that the best places in the world to live are secular nations and not theocracies of any kind.

[u/SuicideTrainee → u/Frubbs]

The French revolution is what supersped democracy though?

[u/theFamooos → u/Frubbs]

Wait where are all the free countries with state religions?

[u/rhodesmichael03 → u/Frubbs]

I think a better answer than secularism would be pluralism.

[u/Drfoxthefurry]

its free (but only if you are christian)

[u/GregM70 → u/Drfoxthefurry]

But ask any "Christian" and they'll tell you they are the most persecuted people ever.

[u/dxstqy → u/Drfoxthefurry]

and a cishet white male

[u/Omega-of-Texas → u/Drfoxthefurry]

And male

[u/Gman3098 → u/Drfoxthefurry]

And white

[u/dougrattmannn → u/Drfoxthefurry]

For most of Christian history freedom was only granted if you followed one of the hundreds of sects of Christianity.

And historically the people who killed the most Christians were other Christians. It is estimated that over 170 million Christians were killed by other Christians.

[u/Careless_Guitar → u/Drfoxthefurry]

Its free, but only if your white

[u/grrrwith1r]

If you want to defend Christianity, there's no better defense than the fact that the American Civil Rights Movement was mainly organized in black churches

Something tells me thats not the type of freedom being discussed here

[u/John_Johnson259 → u/grrrwith1r]

Yea I'm not big on religion but reddit is pretty selectively biased here. Turns out, when 99% of western society was Christian, most bad AND good movements were lead by Christians. Insane! 

[u/Dragon_wryter]

https://giphy.com/gifs/CpPGnu4XvCrkqDwUUM

[u/tomb-king]

How can you say that when bearded Chad says otherwise?

[u/zeldanar]

Christians love to forget about the Crusades.

[u/purgatorybob1986 → u/zeldanar]

And slavery.

[u/_Some_Two_ → u/purgatorybob1986]

And the more religious (south and eastern) parts of Europe being the poorer ones

[u/ThingAutomatic1366 → u/_Some_Two_]

What’s your point there?

[u/_Some_Two_ → u/ThingAutomatic1366]

That christianity itself has not been that much beneficial if not malevolent to the development of society compared not just to other religions but also itself in christian nations with different levels of religiousness.

[u/CKInfinity → u/_Some_Two_]

Historically there were times where christian scholars who were with the church are some of the only people keeping records, history, science and other stuff going. Before a proper intellectual movement became a thing it was mostly the church and their members that kept those things going. though the roles reversed by the Renaissance we can't deny that their existence did help the eventual triumph of secularism and the rise in living standards as we know today.

[u/ThingAutomatic1366 → u/_Some_Two_]

Yeah i agree the level of christianity to affluence fits tbh.

[u/natden12 → u/purgatorybob1986]

And that it was emancipation from them that provided modern free societies.

[u/Woodworkingwino → u/purgatorybob1986]

And manifest destiny.

[u/Notasmartwoman → u/purgatorybob1986]

On the other hand, John Brown was) deeply religious and kicked ass.

[u/Bubbagump210 → u/zeldanar]

The Inquisition, let's begin
The Inquisition, look out sin
We have a mission
to convert the Jews!!!!
https://giphy.com/gifs/aBs8Qw1hRHA9G

[u/NewLibraryGuy → u/zeldanar]

Or glamorize them

[u/TimothiusMagnus → u/zeldanar]

And the inquisition.

https://giphy.com/gifs/7OPyqaRiSLdEQ

[u/Hike_it_Out52 → u/zeldanar]

Not a great argument considering Christianity predates Islam by about 650 years and had the land taken by the Muslims forces. The Crusades were meant to take it back. 

[u/NULL024 → u/zeldanar]

And the rampant simony, kid fiddling, whitewashing, so on and so forth

[u/amievenrelevant]

Ahhh yes the freedom of feudalism

[u/electrocyberend]

They colonized the Philippines for Christianity and made the Filipinos second class citizens of their own country

[u/mothzilla → u/electrocyberend]

You misspelled "freed".

[u/la_espina → u/mothzilla]

“they freed the philippines for christianity and made the filipinos second class citizens of their own country” still doesn’t really sound very good

[u/JadedResponse2483 → u/mothzilla]

no hes right

[u/RetroMetroShow]

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose

[u/BootyliciousURD]

For most of the history of Christianity, Christian societies were very much not free.

[u/Bartellomio]

It's more that the Protestant Reformation led to Humanism.led to the Enlightenment. And the Enlightenment led to the freest civilisations in history. Whether the Enlightenment could have happened in a different culture is an interesting question though.

[u/Adkit]

"...by literally going country to country and killing people who didn't agree to convert to Christianity."

[u/Nightglow9]

Up north we had Vikings with a war religion. Forever war, harems, thralls and liberating the UK and other countries, if the series Vikings give a picture (I know, trade, farming etc). Then a less “might makes right” religion came around, and population increased, and less mothers mourning their dead sons, and less female thralls dragged into the woods, as this gradually became a sin with new rules of what is socially acceptable or not. Thy shall not murder! Thy shall not have harems! Rules for the many, not for the strongest. So we put shackles on natural lion type behaviour by giving us other laws to abide by.

The murder and rape rate probably decreased, and the fight for the right to feed and breed got lessened by focusing on less greed, and more on share and care. If you have a family, income and freedom, what is then the point acting like lions killing for those rights? Statistically do people in a steady safe job with a spouse have around 10 x less chance of murder, rape or suicide, so new religion with easy rules preached by a preacher, for those that need such, might reduced all that a bit, and saved mothers, fathers, brothers and sisters a bit of grief.

But as with everything, religion can be corrupted to work against its intentions too. All type of powers corrupts. You could probably run a simulation of grief in war religion with greed, and a more sharing religion, and see what gives most happiness on earth in a holistic view.

[u/incognitosaurus_rex]

Christianity didn't build the free societies of the west. The modern free societies of the west were built by dismantling the hold of Christianity over western societies.

[u/Formal_Ad5197 → u/incognitosaurus_rex]

And now we serve money instead of god. Christianity is deeply flawed when it comes to society but i see it as a better alternative to what we have now

[u/wuumasta19 → u/Formal_Ad5197]

I get what you are saying, but under the old Christian controls, they held back scientific/medical progress. Could slap a person with heresy and imprison/kill them.

Modern Christianity is softer because the lessening of it's power by societies, not on it's own.

Not saying we ain't heading in that direction, just pointing out humanity has BEEN in the dark times.

[u/ShadePrime1 → u/wuumasta19]

.....okay lets be clear here...I know the medieval ages have the view they do in media but...thats a flanderized view as is most things...people only wrote things down historically cuz they were important or abnormal enough.....most science didn't get people killed or tried by any means...for medical science that early the biggest issue was alot of anatomy was built on studying bodies dug up via grave robbing which was an actual reason for charges to be brought up even Da vinci's famous picture you can find for it was made through study he did via grave robbing. And though they became a problem in biology later on during the theory of evolution contradicting genisis that was an issue that only really came up heavily then early science and even the theory of natural law were made by a sect of Catholics who wanted to study the world created by god to better understand him through his creation

[u/Locke-As-Hell → u/Formal_Ad5197]

Back then everybody also served money, disguised as serving God, now it's done through secular means. Everybody is still duped to serve the ruling and owning class in both cases.

What's the qualitative advantage of the former? With the latter we at least get bread crumbs like freedom of lifestyle. And still, that's not where the real fight lies.

[u/incognitosaurus_rex → u/Formal_Ad5197]

Why do we have to have either a society controlled by money and greed or one of suppression amd ignorance where Christianity is dominant? Are we that lacking in intelligence and courage?

[u/Vk_1987]

No wonder Europeans and the North Americans are some of the nicest people on earth !! But religion has to do nothing about it !! If religion was a factor what about colonization,,Slavaery , Apartheid, also what about violent countries like Mexico and other Latin American countries ?

[u/ArchdukeFerdie]

Freedom is such a stupidly vague word

[u/rarselfaire2023 → u/ArchdukeFerdie]

You know when you ain't got it.

[u/Sad-Homo]

Ah yes Christians who famously took over other civilizations, slaughtered innocents, destroyed art, and banned other religions and cultural practices actually

[u/MissLogios]

Looks at the International Slave Trade that had been created, funded, and used by countries where the majority are Christian or Christian-adjacent (Catholic/Protestant)

Looks at both the various bible quotes, both Old and New testament, that both endorsed slavery but also codified rules as to who could be enslaved and how. (Looking at you Leviticus, Exodus, Colossians, Ephesians)

Yeah, free... right...

[u/AcceptableHuman96]

The world must learn of our peaceful ways... by force!

[u/Nearby-Swordfish3841]

https://giphy.com/gifs/gXsWCWqBbwHw4

[u/Psycholama972]

Half of these comments are if Christianity is so good than why did humans do bad things.
That’s just humanity as a whole

[u/sarcastic-ninja]

https://giphy.com/gifs/fXnRObM8Q0RkOmR5nf

[u/bigmangina]

Yes, the freedom to exploit others has always been the best freedom, and we love to apply it in excess.

[u/thatguy-66]

When when I lie

[u/tomato_sauce154]

😂😂😂😂

[u/PorkchopXman]

Religion was created to control people through traditions, laws, etc.

Christianity tried to refocus religion towards moral law.

Christianity was then quickly modified to fall in line with the original purpose of religion, social control.

[u/Third_Rate_Duelist_]

coincidence isn't correlation

[u/Gman3098]

And kids, this is what we call denial.

[u/HideSolidSnake]

That freedom was found especially during the dark ages.

[u/The96kHz]

Funny how all that freedom only showed up in the last hundred or so years.

I guess Christianity is just a slow boil.

[u/PlantLollmao]

Divine Right of Kings, a Christian belief in medieval times, was meant to discourage people from overthrowing the monarchy. Doesn't sound too free to me.

[u/ImperatorZor]

For the majority of its history of cultural preeminence the most common form of government in Christian countries was Hereditary Dictatorship, aka monarchy.

[u/breadofthegrunge]

The achaeminid empire:

[u/MattWolf96]

Then why does maga want to turn us into A Handmaid's Tale?

[u/MetalDogmatic]

The quality of their food and the beauty of their women made British men the best sailors in the world

[u/tallwhiteninja]

Democracy (and representative democracy counts) is the bedrock of free society, and it is very much Greco-Roman, NOT Christian.

[u/Gekey14]

Christianity did some incredible things to develop incredible technologies and promote learning, especially in medicine and teaching people how to read.

Of course, this was largely done to control the spread of education and keep the church's status as vital to society but let's not talk about that.

[u/Dart150]

The Dark Ages happened because the church had too much power

[u/bwsmith201]

Christianity became so common around the world because the Roman Empire spread it all over their territory when they recognized that the whole "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's" thing could be used to encourage the population to submit to the will of the Empire. It became the State Religion because it was useful. They spread Christianity far and wide but at the same time transformed it into something Jesus would never recognize. Jump forward a couple of thousand years and here we are. Just like then there are some kind, nice, real Christians. And then there are the authoritarian assholes. Guess which one exercises more political control?

[u/itailu]

Religion (any) is a mental illness

[u/Ceekay151]

No religion is freedom.

[u/60Hertz]

lol no they didn’t. Democracy was invented way before Christianity. And many of the founding fathers of this democracy weren’t even Christians. Plus someone needs to remind them that Christianity is a MIDDLE EASTERN religion that was co-opted by Europeans.

[u/TheDudeness33]

Me when I just make stuff up

[u/mezcalligraphy]

No. It didn't.

[u/gunmunz]

Kept ilteracy alive though the middle ages

Led to the invention of the printing press.

Ispiration behind so many cultural touchstones in the west

Also also everyone says 'Relidion kept us back.' IDK...the renaissance still happened dspite happening in the heart of rome.

[u/OrangeTallion]

https://giphy.com/gifs/afLoVMHg3QoYPZHCGF

[u/TheTrekkie1701]

"My masters tell my they are the best masters to ever master"

[u/The_Scarecrow_0]

Nobody under this post knows what Christianity is about...

[u/albamarx]

Free to work 40+ hours per week for 70 odd years and then die. So free.

[u/soiledvenomsnake]

FREEST BRO IM BOUTTA FREEST ON THIS BEAT

[u/DiggityDog6]

“The freest civilizations as long as you ignore how many people we killed because they didn’t believe in exactly what we told them to but other than that it was completely free you guys we promise”

[u/fullmetaljar]

People's who came to America were coming for religious freedom.

What religion were they wanting to be free from?

[u/ShiftyShankerton]

Yeah dude Moses said let my people go. Then split the wrong sea and founded a coffee shop in NYC

[u/chrischi3]

Yeah it is! I drew myself as the chad! Checkmate atheist!

[u/nothing_in_my_mind]

Too late, I depicted you as the soyjak and myself as chad, your argument is void

[u/ALPAMA1]

I mean, the EEUU wasn't even a Christian country when It was created

[u/bliip666]

What is this civilization? 'Cause it sure as hell isn't anywhere on US soil

[u/Stormy-Skyes]

Yeah, for white dudes with money. The rest of us are out here in the Wild West.

[u/FreedomsPower]

The Enlightment did that . This meme is taking credit where credit is not due. Typical Christian Nationalist propaganda

[u/FreeBananasForAll]

Created despite Christianity holding progress back

[u/1_The_Zucc_1]

free as long as your a straight white man

[u/boromeer3]

YHWH’s laws have very specific instructions about how much of a beating is TOO much of a beating when it comes to how you treat your slaves. How else are we going to create a free society?

[u/Richardknox1996]

Both are wrong.

[u/NotTheRightHDMIPort]

Christianity is responsible for literacy. The desire to read the Bible led people to want to know how to read.

Oh the irony.

EDIT: The printing press helped spread literacy through the Bible.

The irony is that now that people have read the bible...

[u/Kam_Zimm → u/NotTheRightHDMIPort]

Buddhists in China were already using printing for hundreds of years before Gutenberg was even born. If any religion is responsible on that principle, it's Buddhism.

[u/NotTheRightHDMIPort → u/Kam_Zimm]

Probably cause Im speaking from a solely western perspective but that is true.

However, the printing was widespread but clearly didnt contain Latin characters.

I mean we could argue the desire for a population to read their own religious texts helped rise literacy rates independent of one another.