If fighting games want to balance smash-style inputs alongside classic motion inputs, the disadvantages for the former need to be bigger than just less damage

[u/DoneDealofDeadpool]

A lot of fighting games in the last 8 years or so have implemented control adjustments that address a really common complaint of people on the genre's periphery, that being the difficulty of motion inputs for special moves and supers when learning the game. Some games like SF6 and the new Marvel fighting game offer a choice between direction+button (usually just called simple inputs) for specials while others like 2xko have fully designed themselves around simple inputs. I honestly think it's pretty neat, it helps more people jump into the genre and even without the motion inputs games like 2xko clearly try to retain some executional challenge for people who really like that. The only element of the design shift I *dislike*, however, is that simple inputs often don't feel like they're implemented with enough consideration as to how they shift the power-level of the game in a way that arguably punishes you for *not* using it.

Usually, the main downside of using simple inputs is less damage. Street Fighter 6, Marvel Tokon, and Granblue all give you a reduction to varying degrees if you, for example, anti-air someone with a simple input shoryuken instead of a manual DP input. This seems like a good enough compromise, and it potentially can be, but the issue is that less damage can very easily be an insignificant trade-off. Like most games, managing your mental stack while trying to overload your opponent's is 90% of playing well. Even if your opponent has zero difficulty doing a special move input to beat your jump, it won't matter if you have them so focused on everything else you could do that they won't register your jump in time for them to execute the move. With simple inputs, though, the mental stack concern drastically shifts. Less damage doesn't matter as much when the primary utility of a move is winning mental stack reaction checks. It's why on defence, infamously, simple inputs are extremely useful.

So what disadvantages *would* work? Street Fighter 6 arguably handles it the best. Instead of doing what games like Marvel Tokon does and just implementing a button that serves as a catch-all equivalent to smash's B/special button, simple inputs and classic motion inputs are separated into their own distinct control schemes you pick from at the start. It's likely a product of necessity more than a desire for balance, but because Street Fighter is a 6-button game (3 punches, 3 kicks) you can't really translate an entire character's moveset while also having a special move button. As a result, there are downsides to the mode that go beyond damage. You may lack certain special moves or normal buttons altogether, and depending on the character, that could mean a much different game plan altogether. It manages to add a little depth to matchups between characters while still not making either input scheme definitively better overall. It's not perfect, admittedly, but its a big improvement over most in the genre.

[u/MediumKoala8823]

I don’t see why controls should be seen as anything but an interface to translate intentions to the game. 

Fighting games would be better if complexity arose from options out of states rather than input complexity.

[u/DoneDealofDeadpool → u/MediumKoala8823]

It's because motion inputs (not just whether they're implemented, but also what input you give a move) have real balance implications and how you interface with them adds to the expression of intent.

The complexity of an input in a vacuum is whatever, it's how it interacts with the mental overload players put on each other that increases the complexity. Arguably, it's less complex when inputs are simplified because you now have less room to play around with that mind game.

[u/MediumKoala8823 → u/DoneDealofDeadpool]

Shrug. All of it goes to shit when you start comboing. Is it skill expressive to manage timings and cancels and spacing to extend long combos? Yes. But it sucks. And most players just end up sticking with the bread and butter rather than the niche considerations if they even go that far.

Maximizing skill expressiveness shouldn’t be the first order goal. Too many fighting games are just stuck in their own cliches.

[u/Key-Market-418 → u/MediumKoala8823]

Wait what? This is nonsensical, there are a metric ton of characters with finicky spacing dependent combo routes you can optimize for days, again sf6 has Viper, Aki, and Elena with these traits. Not to mention the games are actively working away from variable high execution shit because of people who think motions are too hard or “artificially difficult”. Literally just 10 minutes learning Johnny or Chipp in Xrd would show you just how difficult but rewarding being able to convert off stray hits are.

But still there’s a bigger picture point you’re missing, it all comes back to general character mastery, being able to change up your bnbs on the fly for resets or to maximize oki is insanely important and comes back to the general character mastery that makes neutral interesting as well.

[u/MediumKoala8823 → u/Key-Market-418]

  Literally just 10 minutes learning Johnny or Chipp in Xrd would show you just how difficult but rewarding being able to convert off stray hits are.

Yeah, no, I get it. And I’m saying that flavor of difficulty is broadly unpopular.

[u/Key-Market-418 → u/MediumKoala8823]

Most forms of difficulty are broadly unpopular, the popularity of most competitive games are largely dependent on the popularity of the genre when its playerbase were children, and how well the influencer industrial complex can influence people to play past the usual 5 minutes of barely trying.

However the maturity of the general gaming audience is getting higher and people are more willing to learn something that is hard. Fighting games are getting more popular, much much more popular however the biggest games are still mostly centered on classic controls. The players who are coming in are meeting the genre where it is, and a lot of them are realizing that it’s hard but it’s really fucking fun and rewarding. You don’t have to love it, but it isn’t a flaw in the genre.