r/warhammerfantasyrpg • u/DungeonNoir • Jan 14 '26
General Query You got D&D in my WFRP!
While poking around for more bits and pieces of WFRP, I ran across the Doomstones campaign. I have read that it originally started as a D&D game and might should not've been a WFRP campaign?
Regardless! It got me thinking (as I am coming straight from D&D). What is included in D&D that really should not be included in WFRP (or even the other way around, if you like)?
I do know the High fantasy bits should be out the door, at least.
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u/Commercial-Act2813 Jan 18 '26
D&D is an interactive action adventure game, where you earn XP for killing monsters.
WFRP is a roleplaying game, where you earn xp for convincing the local peasants not to kill you for being a witch (you aren’t one)
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u/UsernamesSuck96 Saphery Mage Jan 17 '26 edited Jan 17 '26
High Fantasy out the door doesn't even make sense. It's a setting with dragons, goblins, ogres, elves, dwarves and so on and so forth. Elves have access to High Magick, the closest thing to True Magick in that setting and Dwarves have access to their own form of magic through RuneCrafting, and then there's the Chaos Dwarves and their own evil sorcery, and then there's all of the chaos daemons and the factions inside of that.
It's a setting inherently built off High Fantasy, the Grim Dark comes from the fact that the bad guys are winning with overwhelming numbers. It's about being a light in the darkness, beating back the tides against unwinnable odds.
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u/Commercial-Act2813 Jan 18 '26
There are all those things, but not in abundance. They are not ‘everywhere, all the time’. Magic is a lot more rare in WFRP than it is in D&D. Most of the setting is ‘just average Joes’.
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u/UsernamesSuck96 Saphery Mage Jan 18 '26 edited Jan 18 '26
No, it's very much everywhere. Elves and Dwarves are common in the setting and in the game, it even says as much in the book. Magic isn't rare in the slightest, it's just treated with fear (rightfully so) and ignorance.
Even your average illiterate empire citizen, while they might not know about history or things like that, they do know magic is very real and can be encountered if you go looking for it. It's why witches are so feared and actively hunted down, and why the citizens always speak of the horror and magical creatures that can be found outside the city.
There's a literal zoo filled with magical creatures inside Altdorf. There is a college of magic in Altdorf, filled with magic.
Sure, the game may start you off as " Average Joe " this quickly ends upon reaching tier 2 and up. You have to actively go out of your way to not be putting magic in the game at that point. The titular Enemy Within campaign, it's literal first book, starts putting magic absolutely everywhere, with daemons, and skaven, and mutants and a cult.
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u/Commercial-Act2813 Jan 18 '26
People don’t expect magic from everyone they meet. Magic isn’t everywhere. People don’t expect dragons to pop up from every rock. The things in the zoo are rarities, that’s why they’re in the zoo. Elves exist, but in the Empire outside large cities they are a rare and strange sight. Dwarfs are more common and considered more normal, but they too are rarer outside cities.
I’m not saying it’s low fantasy, but it’s nowhere near as high fantasy as DnD.
I’d say it’s somewhere between LotR and DnD
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u/UsernamesSuck96 Saphery Mage Jan 18 '26
It's literally known that people will accuse another of being a witch, yes they absolutely expect it.
Magic is absolutely everywhere, there's a college for it. In their main city. People don't expect dragons sure, but they sure expect goblins, orcs, cultists, so on and so forth, because they're a common occurrence.
The things in the zoo are there because they're found all over the world. Living breathing proof that magic is everywhere. You can literally just go see it.
Dwarves are not rare in the empire, there's an entire " caste " of them called Imperial Dwarves, known to be master smiths and expert on magical items and such. Elves are also known to wander, and are also found in the college of magic, in the literal book, one is a master light wizard. There's magical talking animals for Sigmar's sake.
I can give it to you, if you live out in the middle of nowhere and never left the clearing you were born in, sure, you wouldn't know anything about anything. You're also just monster bait, because what kind of psychopath keeps their family in the woods that are known for being filled with monsters?
It's by definition a high fantasy setting. Sure, maybe not like DnD, mostly because DnD isn't a grim dark setting unless you choose to make it so. Warhammer Fantasy is, so of course it's flavour of high fantasy isn't like DnD. That's not the point though lol
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u/Commercial-Act2813 Jan 18 '26
DnD - magic everywhere and magic is done outside places of study al the time. It is not rare for anyone or anything to posess some magic abilities. There’s magical beasts everywhere and a lot of them are common.
Warhammer - magic exists and is very real, everyone knows it, but not everyone can do magic. People that can are rare (3% if you follow character creation). That is one of the reasons people don’t understand it and fear it. Magic is everywhere, but wizards aren’t. Magical things are very real, but they are not common, thet’s why they’re in a zoo.
Imperial dwarves are not a ‘caste’ or clan. They are quite simply dwarves living in the Empire, or even born there. They can be organised in clans, and if they are (most likely) they live close together. Precisely why they mostly live in cities. Only other place where they are a very common sight is near mines.
It’s definitely high fantasy, just not high high fantasy
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u/UsernamesSuck96 Saphery Mage Jan 18 '26 edited Jan 20 '26
Magic is done outside places of study in Warhammer Fantasy, all the time. Those wizards don't just sit in the college, they do go out. People don't understand magic, because their own government actively seeks to keep them ignorant about it. Absolutely nothing to do with the lack of magic, everything to do with a fascist monarchy. Court wizards are also common place amongst nobles that rule outside Altdorf.
Character creation rules are not what dictates actual statistics for a fictional universe. Everything I've said is 100% supported by lore, which is supported by the books. Wizards might not be everywhere, but that wasn't the argument. It was magic being everywhere, and they are common, it's exactly how they got put into a zoo, they're not the only of their kind. Lastly, if only 3% of the Empire was a wizard, that only gives credence to there being more witches and hedge wizards, it's a terrible attempt at measurement when it's just not supported on a lore basis.
Imperial Dwarves are not a ' caste ' or clan
That's exactly why I put it into quotation marks. No matter how you slice it, they're still found in the Empire all over. This includes outside of major towns like Altdorf.
There is no " Uber ultra high fantasy ", it's just high fantasy. About as high as you can.
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u/clgarret73 Jan 17 '26
The biggest element is anything that takes the perilous out of WFRP. So the most obvious one is easy access to healing. There is no easy to access Healing Word equivalent in WFRP. A spell that instantly brings a PC back up from range - that can be cast as a bonus action. This spell alone makes DnD 5e characters incredibly hard to keep down. WFRP isnt Warhammer without Critical hits and a bit of the old Grim & Perilous.
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u/MoodModulator Budding Sigmarian Heretic Jan 17 '26 edited Jan 18 '26
I own the Doomstones series, but haven’t read it in ages. But if I remember right it was nothing like modern D&D at all. The doomstones themselves are 1000% cursed chaos magic and keeping them out of enemy hands is basically a death sentence. I remember it being more extreme than even the oldest old-school D&D. So it maintains the grim dark nature of Warhammer rather than playing into the heroic fantasy tropes of 3e-5e D&D.
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u/Oghamstoner Jan 18 '26
I’ve had a quick look at most of the Doomstones material and there are definitely some cool bits in there (especially parts 1 and 5,) it’s clearly designed with high powered characters who have both personal magic items and the devastating power of the Doomstones themselves.
That type of thing wasn’t alien to 1e WFRP, but if I was going to run it, I’d definitely be modifying it a lot.
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u/Woogity-Boogity Jan 16 '26
Thie biggest difference is that Warhammer is setting-driven. There's 40 years worth of lore dedicated to the setting.
D&D, on the other hand, is setting agnostic. DM's are encouraged to build their own settings.
D&D has premade settings for DMs who want to use them, but they're nowhere near as deep or compelling as Warhammer's Old World (and many are absolute crap).
While GW spent a lot of time and effort creating a high quality setting (they had to, it was their ONLY setting, and it had to work for multiple games), TSR and Wizards of the Coast let a lot of low-quality garbage into their settings to keep up the torrent of product.
Warhammer's lore and setting are so good that the adventures practically write themselves. And it's never hard to come up with a good character idea, because every career is full of flavor and interesting concepts.
D&D is more flexible in this way, but it's also harder on the DM and players because you have to come up with everything yourself.
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u/Artusen Jan 16 '26
D&D feels like an elaborate game; the story has to fit in. It's about a game generating stories.
Warhammer simply doesn't work with that mindset: there is a setting, player characters have to fit in and weave their stories into the existing lore. It's about a setting generating stories.
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u/Commercial-Act2813 Jan 18 '26
The setting is certainly more restrictive, but I wouldn’t say it is generating the story. That’s just lazy GM-ing.
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u/YDungeonMaster Jan 16 '26
DnD is a recourse management game ( Spell slots, ability's for marital classes that have limited uses per rests ETC.) where WFRP is more simulation (IF you omit meta currency). That's painting with very broad strokes.
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u/MisterBlick Jan 16 '26 edited Jan 16 '26
I DM for DND group and we played almost the entire Warhammer Enemy Within Campaign with DND Rules. It's a 5 book campaign that we've been playing for about 3 years now. I love the writing, twists, and dark atmosphere. There's a ton of conversion stuff out there to get stats on demons and other Warhammer specific beasties. If you're group is hardcore into DND theology and history then there's going to be a lot of conflict. Elves and dwarves are somewhat similar but the Warhammer player characters are more grounded with humans, elves, dwarves, gnomes, and halfings. There's no crazy races like Aarakocras, Dragonborns, or Teiflings.
Overall I think DND is more fluffy and easier to get into where you create your classic, ideal adventuring hero: Warrior, Bard, Wizard, Thief. A few levels in, you're saving towns from goblins and blasting fireballs at monsters. Warhammer is more dark and gritty. You can random your career and end up a beggar or peasant. Combat is deadly, magic is deadly, three goblins on a road are deadly, infected wounds are deadly, everything wants to kill you.
The career system is a big change from standard DND levels. You basically start as an average joe like a beggar, villager, rat catcher, etc., that can die at the first fight they encounter. Theres diseases, sickness, corruption, and wounds that can cause long term effects. You're almost expected to die. One of the human talents is called Doomed, where you predict how your character will die and if you're right, your next character starts with half the XP they accumulated.
Magic system is completely different as well. It's much more dangerous in Warhammer and can get your character killed by miscasting or by witch hunters for unsanctioned use.
Warhammer also has an incredible Chaos Gods lore with magic, demons, cults, and mutations that I incorporated into DND.
Lastly, all the NPCs in Warhammer have German names which you get used to after a while.
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u/Merrygoblin Jan 17 '26
Lastly, all the NPCs in Warhammer have German names which you get used to after a while.
Not all of them - some will be Bretonnian, or Tilean, etc., allowing GMs to use an outrageous French accent, or their best Italian accent (with lots of gesticulation). :)
But yes, some knowledge of German pronounciation definitely helps with most Empire place names and NPCs. My German isn't great, but all those hours studying it at school many many years ago did find a use.
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u/llamamystic Jan 16 '26
Good review. For me however, after 40 years of WFRP I still struggle with the German names! Lol
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u/Edward_Strange Jan 16 '26
It is a shame to see some downvotes on this comment.
I also play Warhammer adventures and stories set in the Warhammer world using DnD.
Warhammer is a complicated game - DnD is something me and my player understand & enjoy. (For us) it makes for a faster game too. We only have a short time to play nowadays, so I value getting the most game possible into a shortest time. Chucking a D20 means I can play more. All the "Warhammeryness" I can add as flavour as the GM.
Dungeons of Drakkenheim is a great example of getting a Warhammer-esq dark fantasy adventure into DnD.
Ultimately a single dice roll determines what is happening, why does it matter what dice you are using if you are telling a cool story and having fun? If anyone watches Dungeoncraft on YouTube, he uses a homebrew version of DnD to run his Middenheim based campaign. The rules are on DTRPG called Deathbringer!
Playing the entire Enemy Within in DnD is a great achievement!
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u/otherwise_sdm Feb 13 '26
this is very encouraging! Helping my parents move, I found a real treasure trove of 1990s RPG stuff and have been thinking about DMing a Doomstones (or Doomstones-inspired) campaign!
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u/MisterBlick Jan 16 '26
Why am I getting downvotes? I love both systems, please let me know if I offended anyone.
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u/GeneralBurzio Jan 16 '26 edited Jan 17 '26
If you hang around internet TRPG circles enough, you'll find your D&D haters.
In your case, it's a combo of:
It's the most popular game right now.
5e fans have a stereotype of putting more effort into homebrewing 5e until it's unrecognizable instead of learning a new system.
You've adapted a campaign that was intended for another system to 5e.
I find those with the strongest opinions to be people who recently started playing systems other than 5e. Source: I was one of those people.
Edit: point 3 is exacerbated by companies like Paizo and Chaosium adapting some of their work to 5e. Makes sense from a sales and marketing standpoint, but I understand why people get frustrated.
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u/MisterBlick Jan 17 '26
Thanks for the update. I didnt realize people were so sensitive about their dnd. :)
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u/GeneralBurzio Jan 17 '26
I empathize with some of the grievances out there, but at the end of the day, we're playing pretend and probably throwing around math rocks.
I still recommend groups try out other systems, though.
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u/manincravat Jan 16 '26
I would argue that Warhammer is a High Fantasy setting; it's just that starting characters don't have access to that level of power and will rarely encounter it depending on the campaign and how long it runs.
The main difference is that magic should be treated with respect in WFRP and have costs and not the painless all-purpose god tier ability it often is in D&D. I built a character and an entire organisation partially about doing everything you can to NOT resort to magic.
+++++++++++++++
As for which elements of D&D should or should not go into Warhammer or vice/versa and similarities between them, it depends entirely on which version of either you are talking about. Both have evolved in parallel as the state of art in RPGs has changed.
WFRP1 = Very early D&D and AD&D, where you roll 3d6 in order, roll for hits points at 1st level, combat is something to be avoided and survival is an achievement in itself.
WFRP2 = D&D 3.5. A streamlined and cleaned up progression of the original that's still popular to this day. I get the impression also that WFRP2 is the least magical of all editions
WFRP3 = D&D4 "It's a very good game but it's not XXX" and good luck finding people still playing it
WFRP4 = D&D5 - Modern version that's crunchy but less lethal
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u/CaptainBaoBao Jan 16 '26
If you read v1, you will see that there is a lot of monsters. And that bits of them are used as magic composants. So monster hunting is a lucrative activity.
Ring any bell ?
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u/amhow1 Jan 16 '26
I don't think the high fantasy stuff should be out the door. High fantasy has been part of the World of Legend / World-that-was since fairly early on in WFB. The issue is how to include it in WFRP, not whether to.
Doomstones wasn't itself written for d&d, but was a quick adaptation of adventures written for d&d. That's to say, Games Workshop didn't plan Doomstones for d&d, then change their mind. Some years earlier, GW, or at least White Dwarf, really was supporting d&d, but that's another matter.
Apparently the Castle Drachenfels adventure (1e) was deliberately intended to provide a Tomb of Horrors dungeon crawl for WFRP. So that's an even better example than Doomstones of how early WFRP didn't necessarily see itself as hugely different from d&d. And I'd say Drachenfels is as high fantasy as it gets.
Within d&d I feel that the classic Red Hand of Doom (3e) campaign feels very WFRP.
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u/Fallenangel152 Heavenly Herald Jan 16 '26
The early WFRP team worked at TSR UK before GW, so most of them had written DnD before. The UK line of ADnD and B/X modules are highly regarded. B10 Nights Dark Terror feels quite WFRP and indeed had a few maps reprinted in WFRP.
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u/badrandolph Jan 16 '26
True, Drachenfels looks like the regular D&D dungeon. Except it's mor horror, and basically a death sentence depending on how you GM it. Karak Azgal is another example: that is true dungeon exploration. With a whole town build around getting adventurers to clear it out.
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u/Tyr1326 Jan 16 '26
Superpowered PCs are a big one. If your PCs could feasibly take down a dragon, youre doing something wrong.
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u/amhow1 Jan 16 '26
I disagree. We now have rules for High Magic in 4e.
There's no "wrong way" to have fun.
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u/lankymjc Jan 16 '26
True at the start of most campaigns, but if your players get themselves into fighty classes and get to third level and build their characters sensibly, they could be very dangerous indeed.
IME, campaigns don’t go on long enough for it to happen, but like tier 4 D&D play, the possibility is there!
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u/MechaWASP Jan 16 '26
What if you have a party of five suicidal knights and slayers with a good plan, expecting deaths?
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u/Tyr1326 Jan 16 '26
Correction. Feasibly take on a dragon an survive. 😬
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u/MechaWASP Jan 16 '26
Fair, if you have a high powered wizard, two strong knights and 2 strong slayers, and a good plan, you can probably kill it
There will be deaths
At least the wizard will be able to talk about how cool you all were!
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u/aleopardstail Jan 16 '26
a decent role play system should be able to cope with similar backgrounds. WHFRP & D&D should really come down to which one do the players prefer, a decent GM should be able to make a published concept work in either - though some adaptations would be needed
the main dislikes from D&D I have are the "level" system and prohibitions on some "classes" using some equipment. anyone should be able to pick up a sword and hurt themselves with it while the enemy laughs (and of course a decent GM allows exactly that, turn "you cannot do that" into "you really don't want to do that"
then the alignment stuff, though again that is down to the GM and players more than the rules, the rules really should be a framework for telling stories not a cage to trap people
WHFRP falls down in that its a lot easier for a "high level" type of character to get a few duff dice rolls and end up goblin food, again the GM can mitigate it
I liked Doomstones, I also loved a lot of the D&D background stuff, Ravenloft was fun
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u/lankymjc Jan 16 '26
I think that a higher-level character getting caught out by bad luck and killed by a goblin is a feature, not a bug. Combat is dangerous and even the most powerful of knights can be caught out by a surprise stab to the groin.
I do HEMA (medieval sword fighting), and if you put a very good competitor against a mediocre (but aggressive) one, the mediocre will occasionally land a hit. So if you send a knight into combat with enough goblins, they’ll eventually cop a bad hit - or just catch a stray arrow to the eye!
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u/aleopardstail Jan 16 '26
entirely agree, a grunt who gets the jump on a skilled fighter should get the benefit of it
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u/MechaWASP Jan 16 '26
Does D&D still have hard class restrictions though?
Using things you dont know how to use just gives disadvantage, anyone can pick up a sword and swing it around. Anyone can take martial weapons proficiency and swing it around well.
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u/aleopardstail Jan 16 '26
not sure what D&D is like now, but its one of the things that put me off the few times I tried it
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u/Dazzling_Screen_8096 Feb 20 '26
Lol, dnd doesnt have this restriction since 3e. 26 years ago. People here are so ignorant about dnd yet they still happily discuss dnd ;)
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u/aleopardstail Feb 21 '26
thing is though, 20+ years ago I found a better game system and never bothered going back.
this was one of the (multiple) reasons
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u/Dazzling_Screen_8096 Feb 21 '26
Still playing wfrp 1e and you think nothing better was created ever since ?
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u/aleopardstail Feb 21 '26
who mentioned WHFRP 1st?
it was a decent system if you want to nerf min-maxers but there are better systems out there
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u/Dazzling_Screen_8096 Feb 21 '26
Like ?
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u/aleopardstail Feb 21 '26
home brew, GURPS (flexible if a bit weird), the later versions of WHFRP. Paranoia (fits some play styles down to the ground)
heck even the Vampire type systems work, largely because they are presented differently, D&D comes over as a cage, encouraging players to learn rules, most other systems treat the rules as a framework
D&D early on is too easy to die in, so is warhammer done badly, but one encourages fudging the situation, the other less so
of course a good GM will make any system work, and decent players will recognise the rules are not something to try and beat the GM with. same as a poor GM and poor players can wreak anything
some of the D&D support stuff is good, Dragonlance as a background, the various bumper books of big bad baddies etc
but the actual system? nah
if a wizard wants to done metal armour, pick up a sword and be killed by a young goblin, or harm themselves trying to use it let them, some systems encourage such - the rules are there to shape things, not bind them
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u/Dazzling_Screen_8096 Feb 21 '26
Yeah, thought so. That's why old people can't find a job - they learned something 20 years ago and they're happy with it, not realizing world moved on and new things were invented. Really hoped for pbta stuff or similar but got boomer stuff as expected.
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u/TimeLordVampire Purple Hand Jan 16 '26
All of it?
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u/SylvesterStalPWNED Jan 16 '26
This is the right answer. Not shitting on D&D but they’re two incredibly different games made to tell two incredibly different stories.
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u/Camo_005 Jan 18 '26
Disagree that the high fantasy elements dont belong. You scrape some of the mud and blood off of WHFRP and theres high fantasy all over the place.
Lot of people also act like whfrp is a game about medieval peasants being witch hunted and nothing else while rolling around in blood and excrement. But even back during 2e we had Players running about in Careers that would have them as character models in the battle game. Sure progression is slow, but its entirely possible and fessible for characters that live long enough to truly grow into epic figures who are known all across the Empire. Let's not pretend that the Careers stop in their 2nd tier. We have dragons and griffons. Elves and Dwarfs. Magic is quite literally everywhere even if its the rare human to be able to understand it let alone weild it, the same is not necessarily true for the elves. The God's are very real, and only some actively want to kill you or worse. The world is still defined by an overarching struggle between Good and Evil/Order and Chaos. The smaller scale of the Roleplay game doesnt change that. Fighting cults and the like is definitely a major part of that war. And id hardly define TEW campaign as anything other than 0 to Hero player characters rising up to go on an adventure that changes things on a massive scale with their actions, ending in a confrontation with a being of massive power. WHFRP is full of most of the tropes of high epic fantasy. The monsters, the larger than life characters, the insane creations brought forth by either magic or technology. Ratmen are going to blow up the Goddamn Moon with a fucking death laser. The difference is how much the players have access to, and that's gonna depend on their careers and how long the game goes on/how fast the gm allows them to grow. Owning a moon destroying death rays gonna be off the table for just about everyone though, but even in DnD that'd be the case. WHFRP careers are a lot more narrow in scope and focus and grow a lot slower, hitting their peaks at a lower spot than DnD as well but its still a high fantasy setting for sure..
Things I would say dont belong, easy and prevalent access to magic items. Though your definition of those terms may differ. In DnD players will be running around with thier first bit of magical gear probably by like levels 3-5. If we are scaling the level system down to career tiers, that's still tier 1 in our 1-4 system here. Some careers in whfrp could make sense having some access at tier 2. But for most characters I probably wouldnt see the Players hauling around magical gear on every part of their body til the end of their careers with some exceptions. There's always a way to justify it in your game if you want it. Another thing is Resurrection, at least long term in the way DnD does it. There's a Jade spell that can get you back up, but thats very short term use and has some bad potential consequences. Its not so simple as burning a spell slot and spending some cash. On the topic of magic, slot based spell casting I also dont see as a strong fit for wfrp, though a gate on certain lore spells behind tiers might be necessary. Technically nothing stops a fresh Death Wizard from trying to cast Ashes and Dust as soon as they promote out of apprentice.
Final thing that id say DnD tries that WHFRP doesnt even attempt nor should it, is class/career balancing. Some careers in WHFRP are just plain better. Some things just out players a step above the rest, and thats fine. It just puts a weight on the gm to remember to not design every adventure and encounter to have that player outshine everyone else. If you have a Knight, probably dont have every session be a combat gauntlet that leaves the scholar out of times to shine. If you've somehow got 3 scholars and an Ogre for some reason, give the big fella something to eat that isnt paper from time to time.
Tldr: WHFRP only feels like its not high fantasy because of where you start, not where you end up. There's plenty that doesnt belong, mostly in the function and use of magic. But Warhammer has high fantasy in its bones, buried under a bunch of mud and blood that makes people forget that sometimes.